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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan?
    #23687246 - 09/28/16 03:41 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.businessinsider.com/larry-summers-a-third-of-men-aged-25-54-will-be-out-of-work-by-2050-2016-9


Larry Summers, former US Treasury Secretary, says one third of working age (according to the BLS) men in 2050 will be out of work.


So, either we continue to descend into abject poverty, or we change something. What do you think we should change to have our society provide for everyone, without using jobs as a determining factor? Should we change anything at all?


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23687337 - 09/28/16 04:01 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

We should raise taxes on those who DO still have jobs to support those who dont


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23687356 - 09/28/16 04:05 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know quite what to do, but you are right that this is economic issue #1 for the next 25 years.  And hardly anybody talks about it, certainly not the politicians.  They wouldn't want to alarm their bases.

We'll either have to have the government create make-work, or organize society around something other than employment (whatever that means).

I honestly think Summers' numbers are conservative; based on what I've read, all this will happen much more quickly.  Things will be extremely different economically even as soon as 2030, according to some estimates I've read.  Just what it will be like is impossible to know, of course.

Time to start planning now before it's too late to avoid social catastrophe.  Am I optimistic that we will?  Nope.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23687427 - 09/28/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, it's coming much quicker than 2050.  The plan is nature will take its natural course like it always does, the human population is too large.

When a bee hive has too many bees, they start kicking out bees so they can make their own hive, we don't have another planet.

So will it be a another world war with mass genocide? Some are suggesting it has already started, survival of the fittest.


Edited by qman (09/28/16 04:21 PM)


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OfflineDouglas Howard
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23687521 - 09/28/16 04:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
http://www.businessinsider.com/larry-summers-a-third-of-men-aged-25-54-will-be-out-of-work-by-2050-2016-9


Larry Summers, former US Treasury Secretary, says one third of working age (according to the BLS) men in 2050 will be out of work.


So, either we continue to descend into abject poverty, or we change something. What do you think we should change to have our society provide for everyone, without using jobs as a determining factor? Should we change anything at all?




That is if we are still under the obama and hillary's administration. They doesn't know anything about creating jobs. They has been creating illusions. Like for an example, hat they tells the companies to hire workers at half price while the federal taxes pays the other half. And then tells them to split up an 8 hour shift among 3 employees, that one employee takes the first 2.6 hours, and the second takes the next, and the third takes the remaining of the 8 hours. And then the government pays for their childcare. But I think that Trump was talking about having companies to start having their own daycare centers. But the main things is that they should not raise up the federal minimum wage, because if some states cannot afford to pay teachers their salaries, then how can they afford to pay them when the wages standards are being raised? And Trump idea on bringing jobs back into this country. that he is going to make it hard for companies that tries to move their businesses to other countries. Like he is going to give those companies to pay an higher import tax and which that will not make any sense for them to move away. But right now we are being charged a higher import tax, and while we are charging them nearly nothing. But if they stay here, that he will be giving them to pay a discount tax. But if minimum wage goes up, that it will scare those companies away. He has to try to keep cost down to keep businesses to stay. Like the prices on material needs to come down a little like steel and what ever. Or start using or making a cheaper alternative. And he is going to remove some of the regulations that are making it hard for businesses to stay in business. Because some of these businesses are being put out of business behind the schemes of the big corporations. That is why we need these corporate's whores  to move them from out of the government offices. And start using new inventions that some big corporations are trying to keep them away. These new inventions will help create a lot more jobs.




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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: qman]
    #23687543 - 09/28/16 04:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I agree that its fast approaching.

The most plausible, smoothest transition I can see is a much higher VAT and corporate tax rate in order to fund a UBI of some sort.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23687568 - 09/28/16 05:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I know, let's import millions of poor people, that should fix it!


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #23687572 - 09/28/16 05:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

qman is gonna ddos your computer for saying that


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23687581 - 09/28/16 05:11 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I'm just trying thinking like a progressive, you know, isn't that what the smart people would do?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: hostileuniverse] * 3
    #23687589 - 09/28/16 05:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Typically, yes.

The smarter people tend to be progressives.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23687611 - 09/28/16 05:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I agree that its fast approaching.

The most plausible, smoothest transition I can see is a much higher VAT and corporate tax rate in order to fund a UBI of some sort.




The elite have never tried to save the peasants, they will always save themselves. Humans are ultimately selfish animals, they only give away which they don't need.

The human population went up exponentially, I believe the rate has already dropped off and the decline is in the very near term. 

The elite are not going to support unproductive workers bees in the longer term, not gonna happen.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: qman]
    #23687623 - 09/28/16 05:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

So theres nothing to be done?


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23687682 - 09/28/16 05:37 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
So theres nothing to be done?




I hardly see humans at the top sacrificing their potential survival or standard of living for billions of people that don't contribute to the hive. :shrug:


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: qman] * 2
    #23687716 - 09/28/16 05:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thats an extremely pessimistic outlook.

You can contribute to society without producing a tangible good, which is the job description that will be disappearing.

Ignoring that fact, is it so impossible to imagine a society where humans get to do what they want, and have machines take care of the tedious? We've been working towards this since we invented the wheel.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23687753 - 09/28/16 06:02 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Thats an extremely pessimistic outlook.

You can contribute to society without producing a tangible good, which is the job description that will be disappearing.

Ignoring that fact, is it so impossible to imagine a society where humans get to do what they want, and have machines take care of the tedious? We've been working towards this since we invented the wheel.




I think the next financial/economic crisis is going to answer of lot of those questions.  I also think we are fast approaching that crisis, something is going to give and panic is going to set in on many different levels.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23687770 - 09/28/16 06:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Typically, yes.

The smarter people tend to be progressives.




Then What the fuck do they need all that welfare for?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #23687952 - 09/28/16 06:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Typically, yes.

The smarter people tend to be progressives.




Then What the fuck do they need all that welfare for?




Smart =/= rich and dumb =/= poor.


But a lot of people across all spectrums vote Democrat, yes.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #23688058 - 09/28/16 07:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
http://www.businessinsider.com/larry-summers-a-third-of-men-aged-25-54-will-be-out-of-work-by-2050-2016-9


Larry Summers, former US Treasury Secretary, says one third of working age (according to the BLS) men in 2050 will be out of work.


So, either we continue to descend into abject poverty, or we change something. What do you think we should change to have our society provide for everyone, without using jobs as a determining factor? Should we change anything at all?



Meh, people have been saying we'd run out of work since the modern robot was invented around 1940.  The biggest problem right now is income inequality.  If some of the money at the top got down to the rest of us, demand for products would explode and jobs would continue to be there for a long time to come.  20 People Now Own As Much Wealth as Half of All Americans.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23688225 - 09/28/16 07:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thats a good point as well, fal.


But you have to admit we're moving towards a situation a labor based economy will be largely nonexistent. What then?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Jobless Economy Is Fast Approaching. Whats The Plan? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23688806 - 09/28/16 10:33 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Thats a good point as well, fal.


But you have to admit we're moving towards a situation a labor based economy will be largely nonexistent. What then?



If the time ever comes (I doubt we'll see it in our lifetimes), then the Government needs to mandate a shorter work week for everyone and a higher minimum wage to compensate.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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