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akira_akuma
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Modernising Religion
#23686279 - 09/28/16 11:33 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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interesting video -- go to 7 minutes in to see a really interesting conversation that nails the point home about what is truly wrong in religions today. applies to Islam as well.
PS: there is another conversation that is relevant on the issue of a "personal God" -- ie the personal relationship people invoke with their chosen "God" -- which is insightful as well; seeing as it's the truth.
but just thought maybe we could discuss this, this is a still very relevant topic on the world stage, these days, in my opinion.
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hostileuniverse
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akira_akuma
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it's not gonna be an easy thread to get off the ground, it's not a basic highlight of something that's got a spotlight shined on it, but i'm sure i can get a view insights eventually, even if this thread doesn't become very big.
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hostileuniverse
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akira_akuma
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stop spamming your idiocy in my thread, please. stay on topic.
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hostileuniverse
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"Christianity bad, Islam good", that is the modernization of religion
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akira_akuma
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no, you are just displaying your absolute lack of comprehension when it comes to religion, politics, anthropology, humanity, realism, philosophy, reasoning, logic, ethics, morality, and cognitive sense -- you are also displaying your lack of a fluent and well-adjusted psychology.
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hostileuniverse
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Psychology? Am I supposed to be a psychologist to participate in your idiotic topic?
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akira_akuma
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everyone has a psychology...i am so liable to call someone numb nuts right now.
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hostileuniverse
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You can insult all you like, only conservatives get banned for insulting people, progressives are free to insult at will, as constantly evidenced by these threads
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akira_akuma
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no, i just don't flame you. plus, by you doing this trolly nonsense, which frankly, i should just notify Enlil, so he can sort this out, but i don't know why i don't...honestly...but anyways, you're just trolling my thread, i asked you to leave, you won't, this is causing offence to me...i'm greatly vexed...i think that'll cover me with the 'numb nuts' comment, especially since it wasn't levelled at you, as a flame, nor was anything to be taken seriously, as in the context i put it in, it's clearly a joke, and not directly at your expense, though you make the correlation easy to define when you won't leave me alone, and stop trolling my thread. i mean, you make it so obvious, there's no really denying it.
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The Ecstatic
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I'll watch the vid when I get to a place where I can.
But for now, I'll have to side with Hitchens and say religion poisons everything.
The idea that faith (believing things regardless of the evidencd) is a virtue is one of the biggest problems facing humanity, imo.
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The Ecstatic
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If religion wants to modernize itself, it needs to drop the superstitition and become what Jesus intended: a champion for the disenfranchised.
Pope Francis and his buddies see this. Thats why hes going around being Bernie Sanders in a funny hat.
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hostileuniverse
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I believe in govt, they will heal us, keep us safe, and give us everything we need
All hail big govt!
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The Ecstatic
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: I believe in govt, they will heal us, keep us safe, and give us everything we need
All hail big govt!
If I gave a homeless man a penny I'd be doing more than god is.
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akira_akuma
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i'd say that trying to comprehend things that are no evidenced is akin to belief, though...so there is a thin line, essentially, between justified true belief and outright superstition and outright assumption.
though, it says in the scriptures, thou shalt not commit false witness (most people do, unless you're talking extremely precise secular centers where people perhaps do not do so, ie, in the video, you'll see some well-reasoned secular Jews, that's what is interesting...) really, it seems from what i've read, there is a good enough reason to believe that there is a calling, even within the religions, for those who can, to abrogate the dominion of the religious elite and have a personal relationship and more importantly stake with "God". there is also plenty of room for secular thought within the context of religion. from a political purview, it'd be noteworthy to see how we can promote more secularism, and more understanding, between these religions, and also, between these religions and atheists.
of course, this is the goal...not to simply do away with religion, but to phase it out, or make, altogether, not so harmful to the political sphere of influence.
Edited by akira_akuma (09/28/16 01:12 PM)
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The Ecstatic
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Good point. Harris makes a similar argument. The goal isnt to chastise religion into obscurity, but to find common enough ground with the moderates so they do so from within these instutions (Martin Luther comes to mind).
And its definitely a good sign that people are moving away from the authorities in these circles. I'm confident we're picking up steam in the right direction, and no matter religions' reaction to this, theyre helping.
If they continue to dull down their doctrine, we win.
If they try to silence dissent, get violent, or be otherwise wildly reactionary, theyll be exposed as hypocrites, and we win.
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qman
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: If religion wants to modernize itself, it needs to drop the superstitition and become what Jesus intended: a champion for the disenfranchised.
Pope Francis and his buddies see this. Thats why hes going around being Bernie Sanders in a funny hat.
The Pope and his child raping buddies are a bunch of retards.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Modernising Religion [Re: qman] 4
#23686653 - 09/28/16 01:17 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: If religion wants to modernize itself, it needs to drop the superstitition and become what Jesus intended: a champion for the disenfranchised.
Pope Francis and his buddies see this. Thats why hes going around being Bernie Sanders in a funny hat.
The Pope and his child raping buddies are a bunch of retards. 
That they are. But the see whats in store for backward ass religion. His entire papalcy has been a PR campaign. When the most powerful man of the most powerful religious organization in the world decides they need to start talking about income inequality instead of scripture, I'd call that a win for us secular folk.
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akira_akuma
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right. i mean, the Rationalists in India are making huge headway, for example...and Atheist blogs are popping up in places where, frankly, it's a life or death situation to be Atheist.
and really, i must say...there is a lot of conflicting things i see in scripture and literature, that the adepts in the religions would use, that denote a more free-thinking attitude then what is more normally allowed in sects that are more orthodox with whom are simply aiming to live a very...superstitious life; one that allows them to hold a control over their family, for the most part...seeing as though they are now a minority.
and i find evidence for that train of though, honestly. though, it's clear to me, however, that the Torah, funnily enough, is more akin to taking Sumerian myth, and putting it upside down on it's head, ie, making it instead of Enki freeing people from their bondage, it's God holds bonded man to wander until he's freed.
it's essentially a flip around. but again, i see reason to believe that that is to hold only to those whom are children to begin with, no unable to the head of their own kind. at the very least, this is a retroactive effect, but presumably from de-conditioning oneself; otherwise, it seems to be a natural effect of the secular elements that can be derived from the literature coming more to the forefront, and the secular finding methodology to figure out a more secular means of portraying the law of Jewish customs.
then you get into the whole Christianity thing, and it even more so secularises the world. Islam -- check this out
here's an interesting argument for Muslims: if Jesus was also a messenger of Allah, then the successor to him is "the Prophet Muhammad". if Allah had sent a succession of messengers, which is agreed to be true, then we can posit that Allah had revised or altered the message sent forth to us throughout the two successions of messenger to Earth. now let us postulate that Allah has given us free-will, agreed? if all of the above is true then it follows that it's distinctly probable that Allah would not previse, with our free-will that has been given, that Muslims could not choose to cooperate, and unite, with all religions and people through the will to do so, being that "all that is predestined is open to Allah"; is this not a true statement?
i constructed this argument. it holds up theologically, i believe.
even in Islam there is a rationalisation that God MUST be able to be comprehended rationally, even if it can't be understood by 'our meagre understanding'. this is preordained in the Quran.
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qman
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: If religion wants to modernize itself, it needs to drop the superstitition and become what Jesus intended: a champion for the disenfranchised.
Pope Francis and his buddies see this. Thats why hes going around being Bernie Sanders in a funny hat.
The Pope and his child raping buddies are a bunch of retards. 
That they are. But the see whats in store for backward ass religion. His entire papalcy has been a PR campaign. When the most powerful man of the most powerful religious organization in the world decides they need to start talking about income inequality instead of scripture, I'd call that a win for us secular folk.
His idea to fix income inequality is flooding developed nations with third world leeches, Poland and other nations told him to fuck off.
How about telling these people to stop multiplying like rabbits?
The fact of the matter is his Catholic Church is going down the tubes and they're desperate for low educated people to fill the void, that's the ONLY reason why he's promoting that cause, it's always about the money.
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fivepointer
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A 26 minute video?? Are you serious? Not wasting my time.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Modernising Religion [Re: qman] 4
#23686736 - 09/28/16 01:37 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: If religion wants to modernize itself, it needs to drop the superstitition and become what Jesus intended: a champion for the disenfranchised.
Pope Francis and his buddies see this. Thats why hes going around being Bernie Sanders in a funny hat.
The Pope and his child raping buddies are a bunch of retards. 
That they are. But the see whats in store for backward ass religion. His entire papalcy has been a PR campaign. When the most powerful man of the most powerful religious organization in the world decides they need to start talking about income inequality instead of scripture, I'd call that a win for us secular folk.
His idea to fix income inequality is flooding developed nations with third world leeches, Poland and other nations told him to fuck off.
How about telling these people to stop multiplying like rabbits?
The fact of the matter is his Catholic Church is going down the tubes and they're desperate for low educated people to fill the void, that's the ONLY reason why he's promoting that cause, it's always about the money.
Can we stay on topic? You can blather on about third world leeches in pretty much any other thread at this point.
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akira_akuma
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Quote:
fivepointer said: A 26 minute video?? Are you serious? Not wasting my time.
first off: i directed you to a specific time in the video. secondly, you can't read. thirdly, you just wasted your time, right now. fourth things is, if you can't figure out where this is going, just be rest assured, you're not competent enough to take place in this conversation if you can't spare any time to have it, or let alone even make a comment on "modernising religion" without watching the video. yet here you are. rather stupid.
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Douglas Howard
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Islam was never supposed to be another sect or church and which church means circle, like in my little own circle, community or group. From what I had learned years ago, that Mohammed was visited by Angels. That the Angels had told him to bring my people back into one church(circle). And that was all that had happened. That the Angels told him that the people are going to make you into a god, but do not let them do that. In the book of Mormons, that Joseph Smith was visited by two Angels that had told him to preach the truth as well. And the Angels had told them that the people were going to do try to make him into a god, and told him not to let them do that as well. But for some reason, that the people did not listened to either of them, and went and created religion of their own. I didn't believed that the Mormons worship Joseph until one day, I had let one of their followers into my home. We both had shared our views on what we had learned from the scriptures. But then he wanted to get on my knees with and prayed to Joseph Smith as a divine being. I had quoted to him about what Paul had said in the scriptures about doing that.1 Corinthians 3:4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings? But he started behaving odd, and was being forceful to me to bow on my knees and pray to Joseph. Then I had to tell him sternly to leave. He had sort of apologized and act as if he did not know what had gotten into him. The reason why the Jews do not believes in Jesus as being the one to come to save them from destroying each other. As it says in the scriptures, that they were not spiritual beings, that they only can read and understand the scriptures from a natural point of view. But Jesus said that the words that I speaks supposed to have been understand in the spiritual nature, but not by the natural (Flesh). And Paul ad back that up. That is why every thing had went wrong, because of them not having the spirit of God in them since the fall of Adam, in order for them to spiritually discern the scriptures. And so the problem of these religions, is that they must be circumcised from the natural perception of the word.
1 Corinthians 3:4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings?
1 Corinthians 4:6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.
John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.
2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (It is saying that perceiving His words by the natural, causes destruction).
John 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.” This verse is saying to stop worshiping God by getting down on our knees, chanting flattering words to him that He want to here. But to praise Him from your heart and soul like how we praises the Kardashians. That we can't live without watching them. We has to be apart of their lives.
Deuteronomy 6:5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.
Exodus 34:14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.
Jesus did not had that many people missing Him when He had left them. Except for a few.
Edited by Douglas Howard (09/28/16 01:58 PM)
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akira_akuma
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when religion took hold of the cult it's hard to say what was supposed to, or supposed to not, happen. that's how religions work. they become ingrained only because of memetics, but they begin as those whom break custom and promote a "new way"; and thus it ever was.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Modernising Religion [Re: qman] 1
#23687354 - 09/28/16 04:05 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: If religion wants to modernize itself, it needs to drop the superstitition and become what Jesus intended: a champion for the disenfranchised.
Pope Francis and his buddies see this. Thats why hes going around being Bernie Sanders in a funny hat.
The Pope and his child raping buddies are a bunch of retards. 
Leave it to progressives to heap praise upon child molestors, sounds familiar...
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akira_akuma
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leave to you to be a non-entity in the discussion with no clue what anyone is actually saying.
i mean, really, Enlil, when does this shit eventually warrant a ban? he's shitting up my thread and he can't stay on topic, he can't even read the thing!
we're talking about secularism and he's like "progs always endorse child molesters." 
no one endorsed religion, in fact, he said he was against religion in the first post he made...he said, "at least the pope is having to sway from his usual shit to more secular terms, because the world is beating the Catholics out", in a basic summation, that's what he said. he never said "i like what Pope Francis is doing".
you fucking...CHRIST, what does it take to warrant someone being given expletives, fuck this namby pamby bullshit. this guy is confounding the ever living fuck out of the notion of rationality!
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The Ecstatic
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: If religion wants to modernize itself, it needs to drop the superstitition and become what Jesus intended: a champion for the disenfranchised.
Pope Francis and his buddies see this. Thats why hes going around being Bernie Sanders in a funny hat.
The Pope and his child raping buddies are a bunch of retards. 
Leave it to progressives to heap praise upon child molestors, sounds familiar...
lol are you serious? Grasping at straws.
For the record, I was only pointing out the Pope's intentions, not justifying the Church is any way whatsoever.
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akira_akuma
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he may understand the saying "grasping at straws", but hasn't the ratiocination to tie that saying to the understanding of the thought. *incoming "how am i grasping at straws" response*
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hostileuniverse
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: leave to you to be a non-entity in the discussion with no clue what anyone is actually saying.
i mean, really, Enlil, when does this shit eventually warrant a ban? he's shitting up my thread and he can't stay on topic, he can't even read the thing!
we're talking about secularism and he's like "progs always endorse child molesters." 
no one endorsed religion, in fact, he said he was against religion in the first post he made...he said, "at least the pope is having to sway from his usual shit to more secular terms, because the world is beating the Catholics out", in a basic summation, that's what he said. he never said "i like what Pope Francis is doing".
you fucking...CHRIST, what does it take to warrant someone being given expletives, fuck this namby pamby bullshit. this guy is confounding the ever living fuck out of the notion of rationality!
You should ignore me, I hear all the kool kids are doing it...
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The Ecstatic
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Ignoring people who disagree with you is how people like you are made
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hostileuniverse
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Who said that?
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akira_akuma
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and of course this thread cannot help itself out, from being shit on, because of course...this is a right-wing conspiracy! must be!
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Who said that?
Quote:
akira_akuma said: *incoming "how am i grasping at straws" response*
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The Ecstatic
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The Ecstatic
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akira_akuma
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PS: the left never became relevant before the 1950s, in the US, after reconstruction, the phrase "the left" was used to describe those who supported trade unions, the civil rights movement and the anti-war movement.
ie, the anti-establishment, where the very aim, supposedly, of your populist contingent presidential candidate (i love repetition, it sounds very biblical for my friend) is taking it's fire from; supposedly, hostileuniverse. it's the side you endorse, but not really, because the right-wing is flatulent.
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The Ecstatic
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Exactly. The left is born of antiestablishment sentiment.
Thats why I chuckle everytime I hear "liberal media." Right, Viacom is totally trying to advocate an agenda that raises taxes and regulations upon itself.
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akira_akuma
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Viacom, lol, hadn't heard that name in awhile.
cause pedi-greed is nice...lol.
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hostileuniverse
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Exactly. The left is born of antiestablishment sentiment.
Thats why I chuckle everytime I hear "liberal media." Right, Viacom is totally trying to advocate an agenda that raises taxes and regulations upon itself.
Are warren buffet and bill gates conservatives?
The biggest corporatists are liberal, that's a fact
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akira_akuma
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thread is about RELIGION.
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The Ecstatic
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Exactly. The left is born of antiestablishment sentiment.
Thats why I chuckle everytime I hear "liberal media." Right, Viacom is totally trying to advocate an agenda that raises taxes and regulations upon itself.
Are warren buffet and bill gates conservatives?
The biggest corporatists are liberal, that's a fact
You're a moron if you think corporatists are liberal. This is your most ridiculous claim yet.
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qman
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: thread is about RELIGION.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Modernising Religion [Re: qman]
#23687944 - 09/28/16 06:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Religion is stupid and youre stupid if youre religious.
Youre unknowingly erecting another giant hurdle for humankind. Knock it off you stupid idiots!
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akira_akuma
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semi-funny video, but it's insight at how comedic insults can be levelled at Islam, and at a clip, but i will however cut to the chase; a comedian says, in response to a question, why did you insult us, he says, "Anything with a status has a kind of power, and power always corrupts. It must be allowed for it to be subjected to ridicule, when that is not possible anymore, you get nasty situations..."
that's the power of comedy -- and purpose. it's a way to stifle powers corruption.
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The Ecstatic
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"Free speech only matters when it applies to those you disagree with."
- I forget
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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i imagine that those ladies would not like the world without comedians and people whom aren't Muslim; i'm sure they'd prefer the relaxed environment they are on there more than the Harem.
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hostileuniverse
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Liberalism is the religion of the left, is it not?
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viktor
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It makes no sense to talk of modernising the Abrahamic religions because the entire point of them is to retard human spiritual and social progress.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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The Ecstatic
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Liberalism is the religion of the left, is it not?
No, it isnt.
Do that, though, from now on. Ask the people who know what theyre talking about if youre wrong or not. Save us all a lot of time.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Modernising Religion [Re: viktor]
#23689778 - 09/29/16 08:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said: It makes no sense to talk of modernising the Abrahamic religions because the entire point of them is to retard human spiritual and social progress.
no, it makes perfect sense, from a political perspective. to outright deny the attempt to modernise and help modernise these religions is more dangerous than anything, because they ultimately ain't going anywhere.
these are your brilliant posts, viktor?
fuck me....
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Douglas Howard
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There is a Guy towards the end of this video that is a Jew, but mentions about Jesus and what he stand for in his religious book, the Kabbalah. He is basically doesn't understand the purpose of Jesus mission was. And that it is to put us back on the right path, because we were all heading down the wrong direction that leads us to doing acts that leads to death.
Proverbs 17:13 Evil will never leave the house of one who pays back evil for good.
Matthew 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,
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akira_akuma
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he was exactly right when he mentioned meditation (and such things) brings us all closer to our sameness. the Jews meditated. with incense, and prayer and everything.
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hostileuniverse
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Religion and spirituality are hardly the same, religion follows a dogma, spirituality does not
You say you want to modernize religion, when there is no room for modernization. If you do, it's not religion
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akira_akuma
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you can modernise it. Christianity was modernised, after-all, wasn't it? that's what i always hear.
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hostileuniverse
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: you can modernise it. Christianity was modernised, after-all, wasn't it? that's what i always hear. 
Not that I'm aware of, the church may have changed some rules but the religion it's self never has
That's my understanding anyway
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akira_akuma
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Christianity was modernised, now they do not burn witches, and the like...don't act like you don't know these things. you know Christianity modernised, you just don't want to admit that's the line of thinking here that manages to work.
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hostileuniverse
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Can you show me where you are commanded to burn witches in the New Testament? That was a decision by the church, not the religion itself
Think of it as communism, the rules are the rules, sure, you can change them, but then it is no longer communism,
This is only my understanding of the issue, maybe a theologian can weigh in
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The Ecstatic
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Christianity has clearly modernized.
They went from sharia law honor killing crazy, to "eh it doesnt really matter if you follow any of the laws of the bible as long as youre a decent person we're cool."
Come on.
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The Ecstatic
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Can you show me where you are commanded to burn witches in the New Testament? That was a decision by the church, not the religion itself
Think of it as communism, the rules are the rules, sure, you can change them, but then it is no longer communism,
This is only my understanding of the issue, maybe a theologian can weigh in
The fact that there is a NEW Testament at all proves their was a dulling of the edges. The Old Testament is far more barbaric.
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akira_akuma
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you can apply the same logic to Islam -- Sam Harris says that the ideals perpetuated within the religion is due to the literature they ascribe their philosophy to. check mate. (also, funny, you don't ask for a theologian when casting aspersions on Islam, eh?)
PS: For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
also, as an aside.
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
nice...confuse people into damnation. thanks Jesus.
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hostileuniverse
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Can you show me where you are commanded to burn witches in the New Testament? That was a decision by the church, not the religion itself
Think of it as communism, the rules are the rules, sure, you can change them, but then it is no longer communism,
This is only my understanding of the issue, maybe a theologian can weigh in
The fact that there is a NEW Testament at all proves their was a dulling of the edges. The Old Testament is far more barbaric.
Quote:
akira_akuma said: you can apply the same logic to Islam -- Sam Harris says that the ideals perpetuated within the religion is due to the literature they ascribe their philosophy to. check mate. (also, funny, you don't ask for a theologian when casting aspersions on Islam, eh?)
PS: For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
also, as an aside.
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
nice...confuse people into damnation. thanks Jesus.
Christianity has nothing to do with the Old Testament, the facts you guys are clueless to this tellms me any discussion on this topic is wasted on you
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The Ecstatic
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Once again, you are the one that is clueless.
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hostileuniverse
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:

Once again, you are the one that is clueless.
Please cite Christ in the Old Testament,
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fivepointer
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The OT (the law) and the NT (grace) both go together. The law must be fulfilled perfectly. However the natural reaction to the law is that people think they can keep it themselves. The blindness to God's righteousness prevents them from seeing it requires perfection. Instead of realizing it is impossible to keep the law, and cry out for mercy from it, the proud lost religionists try and try to be good enough to keep the law. Only Jesus kept the law perfectly. Jesus is the only way that the demands of the law are satisfied. He had to perfectly keep the law, and pay the price for the sins of those He came to save. The elects sins were imputed to His account, and He paid the price of the broken law. His righteousness is imputed to them, they will appear as spotless, and can be adopted and reconciled with God.
Those who are to be saved have been named from before the foundation of the world to be saved. All those who will be damned have also been appointed to their end as well. God saves and damns according to His good purpose and pleasure alone.
Modern day law keepers try to turn the gospel into a conditional proposition. Jesus did X now you must do Y to be saved. This is just another form of law keeping and is a fatal error. No one who is saved believes something they have done activates salvation. If they do believe they they are not saved, since they believe they are able to perform an action to perfection. It proves they are ignorant of God's righteousness and are lost. This error is known as Arminianism or free willism, which has infected almost all so called churches of today.
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akira_akuma
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there ya go HU^ that's pretty much it. Jesus said i am here to fulfil the law, and he said "they shall die the death", ie those whom do not follow the laws.
meaning, that if you ate shellfish, you should die, lest God forgives you, if you repent!
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The Ecstatic
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:

Once again, you are the one that is clueless.
Please cite Christ in the Old Testament,

Please cite the creation story, adam and eve, and the 10 commandments in the New Testament.
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The Ecstatic
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: there ya go HU^ that's pretty much it. Jesus said i am here to fulfil the law, and he said "they shall die the death", ie those whom do not follow the laws.
meaning, that if you ate shellfish, you should die, lest God forgives you, if you repent!
Forgiveness is a Catholic fraud. Calvinist determinism ftw. HU was damned from Creation.
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tHEfLY
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The problem I see with removing religion as a cultural institution is that people will always want to believe. A meaningless life is unbearable for individuals and for collectives. People need to feel that they came from somewhere and are going somewhere, that they have a connection to their ancestors that extends through them and beyond them into the past and the future, so their lives aren't just an isolated event but a continuation of something timeless. Tradition, I think, is more important than many today realise. This is why I will defend Christianity even though I'm not a Christian. At this point it feels like the only thing the west has left in terms of a shared belief that goes beyond materialism and it still serves in some ways to mitigate the influence of more pernicious idealogies like Islam.
You can say that a personal relationship with God is more important, ok, but remember very few people have the will or the strength of character required to persue such a relationship and so without the formal institutions the majority will eventually fall into nihilistic hedonism, or be captured by a more commanding set of beliefs.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Modernising Religion [Re: tHEfLY]
#23705949 - 10/04/16 07:52 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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altruism, empathy, spirituality, humanism, these concepts are all possible, better even, without the supernatural.
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Leviticus969



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Religion - n. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience
Do you understand now what religion means? A religion is a set of beliefs whether it be organized and followed by many or something you completely made up in your head that you follow by in your day to day life....
Going to war over religion can mean several things....
On the greater scale, Actual physical wars where people kill each other and blood is shed and people die....
Or
On a smaller scale, people, like you guys in this thread, debate back and forth and no one is harmed but they are still arguing, fighting over what's right or whats wrong.
So to say let's eradicate all religion so we can have peace is extremely absurd. There will always be wars as long as people have differing opinions. There will always be different beliefs between different individuals. To say ALL RELIGION is false is the stupidest thing you can say. That's like saying life is a lie. There is a truth out there and there is a right way to live.
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Leviticus969



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Moreover, I find it extremely ignorant when people have never even studied most of organized religions and feel entitled to make whatever claims they want about it.
That's like me hating on a specific race or part of the world because I only know what I see on the tv about them.
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fivepointer
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: there ya go HU^ that's pretty much it. Jesus said i am here to fulfil the law, and he said "they shall die the death", ie those whom do not follow the laws.
meaning, that if you ate shellfish, you should die, lest God forgives you, if you repent!
The ceremonial laws distinguished and separated Jews from Gentiles were obliterated, the feasts, sacrifices, offerings, laws of cleanliness and purification, and all other such distinctive outward commandments of Israel were abolished. The moral law summed up as "that you love one another, even as I have loved you", also described as the Ten Commandments remains.
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Leviticus969



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Wrong. Those laws were everlasting covenants of YHWH. The new testament was made to abolish the old testament bcuz the new testament jesus is none other than Lucifer that wants to be his own God with his own rules.
Luciferians are actually christians, freemasons, catholics, mormons, and so on.
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viktor
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They weren't abolished - there is a Jewish supremacist state called Israel right now.
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fivepointer
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Re: Modernising Religion [Re: viktor]
#23711129 - 10/05/16 07:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said: They weren't abolished - there is a Jewish supremacist state called Israel right now.
How does the modern state of Israel even come into consideration as to whether the OT laws have been done away in a religious context? It doesn't.
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Leviticus969



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To really understand why the middle east reject Christ as a God and the new testament, you must first read the old and new testaments. It's really plain to see the contradictory behaviors of YHWH and Jesus if you don't just buy everything you read and hear from others. The muslims even reject Christ as their God. They are in fact, better than christians.
The old testament was originally written by Hebrews.
The new testament was then created by greek pagans who wanted to perverse the old testament with their "new world order bs".
That's why everyone thinks the bible as a whole is bull shit. Because the new testament teachings literally corrupted it with lies and people buy it.
The Jesus churches want nothing then to want you to be stupid slaves.
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fivepointer
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The entire Old Testament points toward Jesus. Jesus is the Messiah and the fulfillment of prophecy.
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Morel Guy
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A bunch of schizophrenic babble to me.
Religion is a cultural device. People want a box to limit consciousness. Some sort of navigation. It's a need and heavily manipulated.
People pretending to have divine authority. The only authority people need to have is understanding cause and effect. The ability to make choices and navigate intelligently. That's hard to do when our ancestors were delusional fucks. They believed in ways that worked because their ways were not all that powerful. They gave up their power for destruction mostly due to religious beliefs.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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