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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Understanding the Kratom Ban 10
#23685794 - 09/28/16 08:32 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Make no mistake - the reason they are doing this is one hundred percent because they know Kratom helps thousands of people quit pharmaceutical opiates or avoid becoming addicted to them in the first place by using it as a natural alternative to things like Vicodin or Percocet that they hold patents for and profit from.
More people In the USA are on pain pills than smoke cigarettes.
With opiate pills they have engineered the ultimate form of social control- chemical slavery and an addiction tax .
They get everyone hooked on highly addictive drugs and they control the supply. Then no one can possibly focus on any kind of rebellion and will pay large amounts of money to the pharmaceutical companies .
Kratom throws a small monkey wrench into their plan by allowing some people to avoid or escape the trap and that cuts into their unholy profits.
It's pure evil and it's the criminalization of the injured, sick and depressed . It will directly cause thousands of people to go back on pharmaceutical pills or go on pills for the first time.
A large percentage of those people will become or remain addicted and some will overdose and die.
Those deaths are the direct responsibility of the evil criminals who orchestrated the criminalization of a safe natural plant and made thousands of new criminals when prisons are Already massively overcrowded .
Meanwhile, actual opium poppy pods and seeds remain legal.
This law is absurd, unjust and hypocritical.
It is evil. It's a vicious attack on the vulnerable and weak.
It will break up families and fathers will be taken away from their children and thrown in a cage for possession of a dried leaf no more harmful than coffee, with zero rational, moral or scientific basis for why this should be so.
America, you have no freedom. You are not a democracy. You are enslaved by predators who want to control, oppress and exploit you.
If you do not have control over your own body and state of consciousness you are not free.
If safe plants are illegal while alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceutical heroin kill tens of thousands a year , your government, nation and system of law is insane.
Madness has ruled your nation for too long. To expand the miserable failure of the drug war to encompass more natural plants, created by God and provided by Mother Earth, is a step too far.
Resist with all your might, or flee.
You have my sympathy and my love . The world watches in horror as the tragedy that is America unfolds in grotesque majesty.
The spreading legalization of weed gives me hope, while the blanket ban of psychoactive substances in the UK shows that America is not alone in its evil cryptocratic oligarchical madness.
Praise Jah! Babylon system shall be washed away.
Get up stand up! Stand up for your rights ! Get up, stand up! Don't give up the fight!
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
Edited by Moonshoe (09/28/16 08:39 AM)
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plasma
ɹoʇɐɹǝpoɯ

Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 10,001
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23685881 - 09/28/16 09:12 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Jah bless
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Love_spirit
Circle Of Power



Registered: 07/18/15
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23685936 - 09/28/16 09:30 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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It is totally absurd, destructive and an inexcusable injustice. All I feel is fight.
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theonlysun81
Long Time Lurker, Recent Member



Registered: 05/11/12
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Love_spirit]
#23685961 - 09/28/16 09:42 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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you're only enslaved if you choose to take the drugs to begin with though...
kratom, poppy pods, etc may all be illegal, but are essentially readily available.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: theonlysun81] 3
#23686193 - 09/28/16 11:06 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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most people trust their doctors and end up ruining their lives as a result.
Never blindly accept what a doctor says. Always do your own research before taking any new drug.
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
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ModestMouse
IM WALKIN ON SUNSHINE


Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 19,227
Loc: Upstate
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23686212 - 09/28/16 11:11 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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The funny thing is every drug that is consumed nowadays is purchasable from your computer to be shipped to your doorstep.
None of this legislation really affects us who are tech savvy, it only further proves the failure of the war on drugs
-------------------- Anyone got a lowpass filter in this biiiiash?
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe] 2
#23686243 - 09/28/16 11:22 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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THANKS CAPT OBVIOUS!
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Connoisseur] 1
#23686298 - 09/28/16 11:40 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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It was clear from reading some other threads not everyone had a clean grasp of it.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe] 2
#23686313 - 09/28/16 11:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Its clear from reading some other threads some people dont have a clear understanding of life.
Im definitely one of them and so are you
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Connoisseur]
#23686472 - 09/28/16 12:35 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I am afraid I don't understand what you are trying to say, or what point you are trying to make.
Feel free to elaborate .
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23686498 - 09/28/16 12:41 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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its very general thematic comment on the nature of life itself.
whats not to get?
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TheMovement
faeirie princess in training



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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23686504 - 09/28/16 12:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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While I agree with your sentiment, moonshoe, I don't think it is fair to diss tobacco. Tobacco is more of a medicine than most people realize.
Peace and love
-------------------- Utwiddle.net In order to act like a king, one need only treat everyone else like one. BUMP THIS THREAD EVERYTIME YOU SEE IT Join the Anarchy Camp! Down with Oppression!!
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Connoisseur]
#23686505 - 09/28/16 12:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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What are you on right now ?
Just curious .
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Everything I post is fiction.
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JustForToday
New Life, New Beginnings


Registered: 09/08/14
Posts: 3,186
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23686508 - 09/28/16 12:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wish I could rate you for that post. Well said.
-------------------- Hey Shae, Are you still doing that hand thing? I heard you was doing that hand thing today. Oh God what is that?!
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23686510 - 09/28/16 12:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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sadly nothing....didnt you see my WCA
gonna go grab some noidz in a bit and do PST or POSSIBLY smack tonight but prob PST
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: JustForToday]
#23686788 - 09/28/16 01:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks 
Why can't you give ratings ?
@Conn: that's cool. I bet if I ever tried it PST would be my drug of choice.
A legal, natural , serious opiate . Amazing !
Enjoy friend
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23686799 - 09/28/16 01:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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really?
i wouldnt have expected you to say that but i suppose all the more reason to avoid it maybe..?
dont get me wrong Poppy tea is one of my favorite drugs but its not my all time favorite, weed will forever hold that spot.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Connoisseur]
#23686832 - 09/28/16 02:00 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well yeah weed will always be my DOC too but I barely consider it as it's an absolute constant in my life.
But other than that Kratom has been my DOC and I absolutely love it.
I assume poppy seed or pod tea would be just like Kratom (legal opioid) but way more Potent and euphoric .
I assume poppy seed tea is like super Kratom.
If so I would love it way too much.
I ended up addicted to Kratom (fortunately broke the dependence Now) so I know If I ever tried pst or ppt I would get so addicted and it would be game over.
One thing I like about Kratom is it gave me a little taste of opioid dependence and that scared me away from ever trying any other opiate.
I am grateful for that .
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Connoisseur] 1
#23686835 - 09/28/16 02:00 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I see no evidence for anything here. It is not so obvious to me. I still think it has more to do with fear and authority than it does profits.
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23686840 - 09/28/16 02:02 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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its similar to kratom but different at the same time, maybe one day youl try it and find out since the exact differences cant be put into words
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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What do you mean ? Please elaborate.
@conn- if there is a global catastrophe I will surely try it.
Opiates are the silver lining on the dark cloud of disaster.
I am saving the pleasures of opiates for when something horrible happens so I can have relief and pleasure no matter what happens.
As long as life remains good, I will stick to Kratom
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23686897 - 09/28/16 02:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Everything you say in your OP is speculation. You are saying these things like they are indisputable facts, when much of it is what you read into the situation. Fair enough, but I think you're either wrong for the most part or at least missing parts of the story.
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JustForToday
New Life, New Beginnings


Registered: 09/08/14
Posts: 3,186
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23687029 - 09/28/16 02:42 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: Thanks 
Why can't you give ratings ?
@Conn: that's cool. I bet if I ever tried it PST would be my drug of choice.
A legal, natural , serious opiate . Amazing !
Enjoy friend 
Because people kept updating their ratings of me when I had them on ignore constituting harassment. Asante warned them to stop or he would take away their ability to leave ratings. They actually got shot down like children getting a spanking. LOL. I left a rating for treana, and she reported it like I was actually harassing her through ratings. So they took away my ability to rate but tbh I don't really care. Whats even more funny about this is treana has been begging me to take her off ignore. I wanted to go back to the romp. "Take me and everyone off ignore and you can come back." The answer is a simple no.
Wouldn't doubt if a mod removes this post because all treana has to do is simply tell them to like she is admin or something I don't get it.
-------------------- Hey Shae, Are you still doing that hand thing? I heard you was doing that hand thing today. Oh God what is that?!
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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I'd not say they want people addicted to opiates. If that were true I wouldn't have to go to my doc only when I have excruciating pain so he could give me a handful of tramadol or vicodin after a series of needless tests. None of the doctors I've been to are interested in treating my daily pain, just treating it when it climbs up to nearly unbearable levels.
It's not a piece of cake to get opiates in the US. Lots of people who really need them can't get them because of a terrible fear that they will become magically addicted and be responsible for that.
Nah. It's not about getting people addicted to opiates.
It's about control. All of this, from law to patents, is about control. The truth is authority fears freedom. The elite fears freedom.
--------------------
Free time is the only time
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23687120 - 09/28/16 03:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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The reality is more complex with different layers of fear and hatred. You can try to make a war on authority, but then even if that were feasible you'd probably just end up oppressing someone else, even though you think yourself blameless in it all.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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What I laid out is the logical connection between the motive and the outcome (the classic investigatory question- who stands to gain? And the the axiom - follow the money ).
So what is the counter argument ? It's fine to say you think I am wrong, but why and on what grounds ?
What alternative explanation do you offer and what logical basis do you have to support it ?
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
Edited by Moonshoe (09/29/16 07:51 AM)
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23689598 - 09/29/16 07:54 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think the counter is that the DEA is stupid. And since it seems that they didn't even know what kratom is, and finally admitted that weed is less dangerous than pot just this past month, it seems a plausible argument
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Free time is the only time
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23689738 - 09/29/16 08:43 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's not amcounter argument . The DEA is stupid . That doesn't conflict with the idea that the pharmaceutical lobby is the motivation behind the ban at all.
It is true that a secondary part of it is also that the more drugs are illegal the more protected the jobs of DEA vermin will be.
The DEA will always want to throw people in prison for anything they can to protect their own vile role in society and ensure their budget expands etc. So that is a secondary or additional motivation.
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23689846 - 09/29/16 09:28 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm not arguing that Moonshoe, I just think it's a bit more complicated than BIG PHARMA WANTS US ADDICTED TO OXYCOTIN which I'm sure is the opinion of most of your debate partners.
Really I think it does simply come down to control. It's healthcare as a whole that doesn't want us treating ourselves with holistic medicine. Or treating ourselves at all for that matter. "Go see a doctor" that didn't work tho "go see another doctor." "have these tests" "try these pills" it is ingrained into society now that a doctor and his medicine is the only way to be healthy. That's why they've worked so hard to smear at home remedies in the last century. They want us to believe that there is no alternative to the chemical concoctions they make and sell.
Unlike most herbs or holistic treatments, kratom is a glaring example that puts the lie to what is accepted modern medicine.
--------------------
Free time is the only time
Edited by CookieCrumbs (09/29/16 09:29 AM)
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23690286 - 09/29/16 11:47 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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If it was just about control in a general sense they could just as easily have gone after kava, mucuna pruriens, L theanine, adrafinil , SAMe, valerian root or a million other natural highs and non prescription psychoactives.
The reason they are not going after any of these but targeting Kratom instead is because Kratom is the only one that allows opiate addicts to get free of their addiction and thus cut into the opiate profits the pharmaceutical corporations make.
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23690334 - 09/29/16 12:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not entirely true. The benefits with everything else you mentioned can and is largely be chocked up to be placebo. Kratoms benefits are, again, glaring and obvious.
--------------------
Free time is the only time
Edited by CookieCrumbs (09/29/16 12:04 PM)
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23690386 - 09/29/16 12:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's not true at all. All of the things I mentioned have undeniable benefits and effects that are not in any way explicable by placebo. They are all effective drugs with science showing they work. Some have fairly dramatic and powerful effects.
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23690492 - 09/29/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: I think the counter is that the DEA is stupid. And since it seems that they didn't even know what kratom is, and finally admitted that weed is less dangerous than pot just this past month, it seems a plausible argument
bahaha ok im sorry but if you think the DEA is stupid you need to open your eyes a lil more
im not going to explain it all though since moon has already said it all
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe] 1
#23690505 - 09/29/16 12:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: Make no mistake - the reason they are doing this is one hundred percent because they know Kratom helps thousands of people quit pharmaceutical opiates or avoid becoming addicted to them in the first place by using it as a natural alternative to things like Vicodin or Percocet that they hold patents for and profit from.
that's a false narrative, if it was about getting people off of opiates then it wouldnt be illegal to be in possession it opiate/opiod drugs without a scrip
the reason it's illegal is someone said "there outta be a law against it..."
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
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Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23690512 - 09/29/16 01:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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its not the only reason, its also because it cuts into the profits of the opiate/opioid market
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23690516 - 09/29/16 01:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: I think the counter is that the DEA is stupid. And since it seems that they didn't even know what kratom is, and finally admitted that weed is less dangerous than pot just this past month, it seems a plausible argument
I seriously doubt they said that weed is less dangerous than pot
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23690517 - 09/29/16 01:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: That's not true at all. All of the things I mentioned have undeniable benefits and effects that are not in any way explicable by placebo. They are all effective drugs with science showing they work. Some have fairly dramatic and powerful effects.
Science yes. The modern medical community tho? There is enough wiggle room in those medicines to imply they are largely ineffective. You can't do that with kratom when it saves heroin addicts from horrible physical withdrawals. Lets consult the may clinic's FAQ.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/generalized-anxiety-disorder/expert-answers/herbal-treatment-for-anxiety/faq-20057945
Kava. Kava appeared to be a promising treatment for anxiety, but reports of serious liver damage — even with short-term use — caused several European countries to pull it off the market. The Food and Drug Administration has issued warnings but not banned sales in the United States. Avoid using kava until more rigorous safety studies are done, especially if you have liver problems or take medications that affect your liver.
Kava is unsafe.
Valerian. In some studies, people who used valerian reported less anxiety and stress. In other studies, people reported no benefit. Valerian is generally considered safe at recommended doses, but since long-term safety trials are lacking, don't take it for more than a few weeks at a time. It can cause some side effects such as headaches and drowsiness.
Valerian root is questionable in both effectiveness and safety.
There is better but still very limited comments on the alternative drugs but herbs are always going to be looked down on in the world of modern medicine.
Maybe not always. The webmd articles have improved alot. But for now it's still not accepted medicine in the mainstream medical community.
--------------------
Free time is the only time
Edited by CookieCrumbs (09/29/16 01:05 PM)
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Connoisseur]
#23690532 - 09/29/16 01:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Connoisseur said: its not the only reason, its also because it cuts into the profits of the opiate/opioid market
again a false narrative, why wouldnt the pharmaceutical companies want opiod/opiates and other abusable drugs to be descheduled since that seriously cuts into their profits, if you believe kratom sales are actually that high then maybe you should show us just how much is sold in the US and then show us how much profit the pharma companies are losing because of this
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23690539 - 09/29/16 01:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: I think the counter is that the DEA is stupid. And since it seems that they didn't even know what kratom is, and finally admitted that weed is less dangerous than pot just this past month, it seems a plausible argument
I seriously doubt they said that weed is less dangerous than pot
Phones are gay. Had to reword the sentence and didn't correct everything.
Pot is less dangerous than heroin*
And they may not be as stupid as they act, I can hope not, but they do act very stupid.
--------------------
Free time is the only time
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23690577 - 09/29/16 01:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Connoisseur said: its not the only reason, its also because it cuts into the profits of the opiate/opioid market
again a false narrative, why wouldnt the pharmaceutical companies want opiod/opiates and other abusable drugs to be descheduled since that seriously cuts into their profits, if you believe kratom sales are actually that high then maybe you should show us just how much is sold in the US and then show us how much profit the pharma companies are losing because of this
im not even saying thats the rest of the reason, thats just yet another one of many.
if you dont think thats been taken into consideration concerning the ban on kratom i would like to know what you think has because clearly dangers from the use of kratom is not a consideration at all since no evidence has shown kratom to be dangerous in any manner that we know of currently.
also you do realize many people will switch from kratom to opiates/opioids when the ban hits right?
as a result the profits will go up for the people selling them, not by much but even a dollar up is still techinicaly going up.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Connoisseur]
#23690739 - 09/29/16 02:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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It would be really hard to explain a the little human factors leading to the kratom ban, but the fact is we live in a prohibitionist state. Do pharmaceuitcal companies benefit from this? In some ways maybe, but in other way it hampers their business. I just don't see pharm companies as the main driving force behind the US being a prohibitionist state. I think if we socialized all medicine and made sure nobody could profit off of drugs we would still have issues with prohibitionists trying to say what people can and can't take for what reasons.
Our society has alot of hangups surrounding drugs, that is the just of it I would say. People are more aware today of the reality of drugs than ever I think, but we still have a long way to go.
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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im not saying just them man. im including the heroin market and the rest of the people involved in the selling or marketing of any opiates/opioids
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Connoisseur]
#23690756 - 09/29/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Kratom is not really a threat to them IMO. Most addicts I try to turn on to kratom have zero interest in it, and around here at least I have only met a handful of people who are even willing to take it out of hundreds of addicts.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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In what ways does the Kratom ban hinder the pharmaceutical business ?
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Everything I post is fiction.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23690773 - 09/29/16 02:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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It prevents them from freely researching and developing drugs based on those chemicals.
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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your right thats its not a threat at all, its more like them squashing a fly actually
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: It prevents them from freely researching and developing drugs based on those chemicals.
wrong they actually already did that, at least the second half of it which is yet another one of the many reasons is being banned
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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No I don't think it does. The pharmaceutical companies are developing Kratom hard meds already and I don't think the ban will interfere with that. In fact that's just another way the ban protects their interests .
Even as they develop Kratom based drugs they ensure no one can legally use Kratom, so that the only way people can get the benefits of Kratom is too buy their patented drugs.
Just like they have been doing research on the medical benefits of cannabis and prescribing cannabis based drugs (marinol) even as people get thrown in jail for smoking weed.
I am curious what your mental block is about this. Do you have family that works in the pharmaceutical business or something ?
I haven't seen anything in your posts yet that helps me understand what your difficulty is in making the connection.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23690812 - 09/29/16 02:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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My mental block stems from me requiring evidence to accept something as fact, and knowing that people like thinking they understand things that they do not. You seem alot more prone to being able to accept something based on your gut feeling, and expect what is obvious to you to be obvious to me when it is not.
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danielx
whatup!


Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 6,500
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23690851 - 09/29/16 02:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Connoisseur said: its not the only reason, its also because it cuts into the profits of the opiate/opioid market
again a false narrative, why wouldnt the pharmaceutical companies want opiod/opiates and other abusable drugs to be descheduled since that seriously cuts into their profits, if you believe kratom sales are actually that high then maybe you should show us just how much is sold in the US and then show us how much profit the pharma companies are losing because of this
I personally know big vendors who have made millions. There is enough money being made to raise eyebrows and make their lick their chops thats for sure.
-------------------- Long live kratom
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23690856 - 09/29/16 02:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: In what ways does the Kratom ban hinder the pharmaceutical business ?
kratom use has such a minuscule user base in the US that it doesnt even affect the pharmaceutical industry
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: It prevents them from freely researching and developing drugs based on those chemicals.
No. It doesn't. It makes the process slightly more cumbersome, but its non-consequential within the context of developing and bringing a drug to market.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
Edited by badchad (09/29/16 02:44 PM)
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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It's one thing to say you don't know for sure until you have facts as evidence , but it seems to me what you are doing is rejecting this theory which has logic to support it in favor of another theory that does not have logic to support it.
When we have a murder scene and we don't have any physical DNA or fingerprints to prove for sure who the guilty party is, we assess who has the means and the motive to carry out the crime .
The means and motive doesn't constitute definitive proof, but it gives us our prime suspect.
That is what we are laying out here. The pharmaceutical lobby who profits off the addictive drugs that Kratom helps people to quit , this cutting into their profits , have the money and political influence (means) and the reason to want Kratom banned (the motive) and thus they have to be our prime suspect.
Kratom hurts literally nobody else and causes problems for no one except the opiate producers.
If you have someone who is murdered and only one person had any reason to want the victim dead, and you find out the victim was directly costing the suspect millions of dollars, it takes a special kind of willful blindness not to acknowledge that you have your prime suspect.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23691146 - 09/29/16 04:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Moonshoe said: In what ways does the Kratom ban hinder the pharmaceutical business ?
kratom use has such a minuscule user base in the US that it doesnt even affect the pharmaceutical industry
Kratom has a small but significant user base . However, that user base is rapidly growing as word spreads .
The pharmaceutical lobby knows that word is spreading rapidly among addicts that Kratom can help them get clean, and among pain sufferers that Kratom can be an alternative to pharmaceutical opiates .
They are thinking ahead; and moving to ban Kratom before it catches on on a mass scale, which they can see it rapidly is (a few years ago no one on the shroomery had heard of Kratom. Today almost everybody is on it).
The pharmaceutical corporations see the writing on the wall. They know that a natural non-patentable medicine exists that is a direct competitor to their profit juggernaut of opiate pills, and worse yet has the potential to free some of their lifelong customers (addicts) from their lucrative chemical bondage .
Just like any mega corporation wont wait until a small competitor grows large enough to truly threaten them, they move to stomp them out before they become a serious rival.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23691251 - 09/29/16 05:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said:
The pharmaceutical corporations see the writing on the wall. They know that a natural non-patentable medicine exists that is a direct competitor to their profit juggernaut of opiate pills, and worse yet has the potential to free some of their lifelong customers (addicts) from their lucrative chemical bondage .
Regardless of the patent, "exclusivity" is much more valuable, and an extract could easily be patented.
Most opioid-based drugs are generic. They have a low profit margin. In addition, the action that cost pharma VASTLY more profits was the upscheduling of combination products to Schedule 2. If pharma had that much influence on DEA, this never would have happened as it cost them more than kratom will.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Buger
Perpetual harvester



Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 21
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: badchad]
#23691289 - 09/29/16 05:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Good always prevails!
B
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 5 days, 2 hours
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: I see no evidence for anything here. It is not so obvious to me. I still think it has more to do with fear and authority than it does profits.
.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: badchad]
#23691442 - 09/29/16 06:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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"Regardless of the patent, "exclusivity" is much more valuable, and an extract could easily be patented."
Yes, and the value and profitability of that patented extract would be enormously greater when no one is allowed to legally own or use the natural version and thus anyone who wants the benefits has no choice but to buy it from big Pharma or go to jail.
It's a slam dunk. Make it illegal for anyone to own or use Kratom at the same time you develop And patent a Kratom based drug and bring it to market.
Instant monopoly .
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
Edited by Moonshoe (09/29/16 06:06 PM)
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23691477 - 09/29/16 06:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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so sancho is telling me the ban has been set back?
is this true?
WHATS THE DEAL SHROOMERY?!
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OhMrJohnson
Ashes Against The Grain

Registered: 01/12/14
Posts: 17,544
Loc: Terra Incognita
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Buger] 1
#23691636 - 09/29/16 06:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I believe that the Illuminati, also known as the "one-percent" or the "New World Order" is to blame for all of these atrocities
This is gonna be a long one so bear with me here

The real Illuminati clan is shrouded within a seemingly impenetrable tangle of mysteries, myths and stories.. a lot of people think of the "Illuminati" as in the Freemasons and similar groups.. my personal theory is that the Illuminati is something much different.. a very small circle of extremely powerful individuals who have been systematically brain-washed and enslaved by the "dead" alien(s) which are being held in total secrecy within Area 51, as they have been for almost 70 years and counting
I believe that when the UFO crash-landed in Roswell back in the day, it did not land there because of any accident, but because it was deliberately sent there by a highly advanced alien civilization which I believe to be above the Illuminati.. the ancient watchers from the Great Beyond, the ones who helped the Egyptians and the Mayans build their pyramids in exchange for worshipping them as gods..
They have been watching us for thousands of years before recorded history or longer, but before I go any further I want you to ponder these questions a little bit: isn't it rather interesting how in the past ~300 years, civilization as a whole has evolved far more rapidly than it ever has for the 10,000 years before it and now seems to be collapsing under its own weight?
Isn't it interesting how the ice caps are melting at such an alarming rate, the hole in the ozone layer above Antarctica is growing, there is an unfathomably enormous vortex of toxic sludge and refuse swirling around in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, and as if all that weren't bad enough there's also a nuclear reactor under the ocean leaking its radioactive guts 24/7, the Amazon rainforest is being destroyed at a rate of 20,000 square miles a year, carbon levels and temperatures are rising constantly, animals of all kinds are dying off in droves while the majority of the first-world lives in relative comfort and pretends that nothing is wrong with the state of the world?
You can call me crazy all you want but I've considered these particular topics a whole hell of a lot, and what I've come to believe is that human civilization as we know it today is afflicted by a deep cancer known as greed.. it is the greed of the one-percent which is responsible for all the unnecessary suffering and injustice in the world, and also for the desecration and destruction of Mother Earth for monetary gain.. I believe the advanced alien society watching over us is tribal in nature, and that they are infinitely kind and wise, beyond anything we can possibly imagine.. I imagine they are intensely upset and offended by what is happening on our planet and that they mean to put a stop to it, but they will not reveal themselves until they feel the time is right, or perhaps they will never reveal themselves.. however, they will continue to pull the strings from far above as they always have, they are the keepers of balance in this part of the Universe and I have faith that they will bring us out of these dark times and into a new golden age where all will be made clear
If you read this whole thing I applaud you, I enjoyed writing it, not simply a fiction story I just spun up but it's what I believe and I'm sticking to it
I'll save this thread and check back one day to see if I was right
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Diminish the sub-principle and leave its toxic trace.. Once and for all!
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23691724 - 09/29/16 07:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said:
It's a slam dunk. Make it illegal for anyone to own or use Kratom at the same time you develop And patent a Kratom based drug and bring it to market.
Instant monopoly .
What do you think the indication/use would be for? Pain, where there are many, many, generic drugs already approved to compete with it?
Or would it be for opioid addiction? where approval would put the rest of pharma out of business? In either scenario, it sounds like pharma loses.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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PLURAL
PLUR


Registered: 01/16/14
Posts: 31,320
Loc: PLUR
Last seen: 2 months, 29 days
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: JustForToday] 1
#23695809 - 09/30/16 10:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
JustForToday said:
Quote:
Moonshoe said: Thanks 
Why can't you give ratings ?
@Conn: that's cool. I bet if I ever tried it PST would be my drug of choice.
A legal, natural , serious opiate . Amazing !
Enjoy friend 
Because people kept updating their ratings of me when I had them on ignore constituting harassment. Asante warned them to stop or he would take away their ability to leave ratings. They actually got shot down like children getting a spanking. LOL. I left a rating for treana, and she reported it like I was actually harassing her through ratings. So they took away my ability to rate but tbh I don't really care. Whats even more funny about this is treana has been begging me to take her off ignore. I wanted to go back to the romp. "Take me and everyone off ignore and you can come back." The answer is a simple no.
Wouldn't doubt if a mod removes this post because all treana has to do is simply tell them to like she is admin or something I don't get it.
I would just like to take a second to point out that 99.7% of the above quoted post is made up delusional bullshit.
-------------------- PLUR
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