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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Connoisseur]
#23690739 - 09/29/16 02:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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It would be really hard to explain a the little human factors leading to the kratom ban, but the fact is we live in a prohibitionist state. Do pharmaceuitcal companies benefit from this? In some ways maybe, but in other way it hampers their business. I just don't see pharm companies as the main driving force behind the US being a prohibitionist state. I think if we socialized all medicine and made sure nobody could profit off of drugs we would still have issues with prohibitionists trying to say what people can and can't take for what reasons.
Our society has alot of hangups surrounding drugs, that is the just of it I would say. People are more aware today of the reality of drugs than ever I think, but we still have a long way to go.
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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im not saying just them man. im including the heroin market and the rest of the people involved in the selling or marketing of any opiates/opioids
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Connoisseur]
#23690756 - 09/29/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Kratom is not really a threat to them IMO. Most addicts I try to turn on to kratom have zero interest in it, and around here at least I have only met a handful of people who are even willing to take it out of hundreds of addicts.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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In what ways does the Kratom ban hinder the pharmaceutical business ?
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Everything I post is fiction.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23690773 - 09/29/16 02:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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It prevents them from freely researching and developing drugs based on those chemicals.
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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your right thats its not a threat at all, its more like them squashing a fly actually
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: It prevents them from freely researching and developing drugs based on those chemicals.
wrong they actually already did that, at least the second half of it which is yet another one of the many reasons is being banned
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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No I don't think it does. The pharmaceutical companies are developing Kratom hard meds already and I don't think the ban will interfere with that. In fact that's just another way the ban protects their interests .
Even as they develop Kratom based drugs they ensure no one can legally use Kratom, so that the only way people can get the benefits of Kratom is too buy their patented drugs.
Just like they have been doing research on the medical benefits of cannabis and prescribing cannabis based drugs (marinol) even as people get thrown in jail for smoking weed.
I am curious what your mental block is about this. Do you have family that works in the pharmaceutical business or something ?
I haven't seen anything in your posts yet that helps me understand what your difficulty is in making the connection.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23690812 - 09/29/16 02:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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My mental block stems from me requiring evidence to accept something as fact, and knowing that people like thinking they understand things that they do not. You seem alot more prone to being able to accept something based on your gut feeling, and expect what is obvious to you to be obvious to me when it is not.
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danielx
whatup!


Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 6,500
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23690851 - 09/29/16 02:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Connoisseur said: its not the only reason, its also because it cuts into the profits of the opiate/opioid market
again a false narrative, why wouldnt the pharmaceutical companies want opiod/opiates and other abusable drugs to be descheduled since that seriously cuts into their profits, if you believe kratom sales are actually that high then maybe you should show us just how much is sold in the US and then show us how much profit the pharma companies are losing because of this
I personally know big vendors who have made millions. There is enough money being made to raise eyebrows and make their lick their chops thats for sure.
-------------------- Long live kratom
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23690856 - 09/29/16 02:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: In what ways does the Kratom ban hinder the pharmaceutical business ?
kratom use has such a minuscule user base in the US that it doesnt even affect the pharmaceutical industry
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: It prevents them from freely researching and developing drugs based on those chemicals.
No. It doesn't. It makes the process slightly more cumbersome, but its non-consequential within the context of developing and bringing a drug to market.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
Edited by badchad (09/29/16 02:44 PM)
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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It's one thing to say you don't know for sure until you have facts as evidence , but it seems to me what you are doing is rejecting this theory which has logic to support it in favor of another theory that does not have logic to support it.
When we have a murder scene and we don't have any physical DNA or fingerprints to prove for sure who the guilty party is, we assess who has the means and the motive to carry out the crime .
The means and motive doesn't constitute definitive proof, but it gives us our prime suspect.
That is what we are laying out here. The pharmaceutical lobby who profits off the addictive drugs that Kratom helps people to quit , this cutting into their profits , have the money and political influence (means) and the reason to want Kratom banned (the motive) and thus they have to be our prime suspect.
Kratom hurts literally nobody else and causes problems for no one except the opiate producers.
If you have someone who is murdered and only one person had any reason to want the victim dead, and you find out the victim was directly costing the suspect millions of dollars, it takes a special kind of willful blindness not to acknowledge that you have your prime suspect.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23691146 - 09/29/16 04:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Moonshoe said: In what ways does the Kratom ban hinder the pharmaceutical business ?
kratom use has such a minuscule user base in the US that it doesnt even affect the pharmaceutical industry
Kratom has a small but significant user base . However, that user base is rapidly growing as word spreads .
The pharmaceutical lobby knows that word is spreading rapidly among addicts that Kratom can help them get clean, and among pain sufferers that Kratom can be an alternative to pharmaceutical opiates .
They are thinking ahead; and moving to ban Kratom before it catches on on a mass scale, which they can see it rapidly is (a few years ago no one on the shroomery had heard of Kratom. Today almost everybody is on it).
The pharmaceutical corporations see the writing on the wall. They know that a natural non-patentable medicine exists that is a direct competitor to their profit juggernaut of opiate pills, and worse yet has the potential to free some of their lifelong customers (addicts) from their lucrative chemical bondage .
Just like any mega corporation wont wait until a small competitor grows large enough to truly threaten them, they move to stomp them out before they become a serious rival.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23691251 - 09/29/16 05:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said:
The pharmaceutical corporations see the writing on the wall. They know that a natural non-patentable medicine exists that is a direct competitor to their profit juggernaut of opiate pills, and worse yet has the potential to free some of their lifelong customers (addicts) from their lucrative chemical bondage .
Regardless of the patent, "exclusivity" is much more valuable, and an extract could easily be patented.
Most opioid-based drugs are generic. They have a low profit margin. In addition, the action that cost pharma VASTLY more profits was the upscheduling of combination products to Schedule 2. If pharma had that much influence on DEA, this never would have happened as it cost them more than kratom will.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Buger
Perpetual harvester



Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 21
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: badchad]
#23691289 - 09/29/16 05:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Good always prevails!
B
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 5 days, 1 hour
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: I see no evidence for anything here. It is not so obvious to me. I still think it has more to do with fear and authority than it does profits.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: badchad]
#23691442 - 09/29/16 06:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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"Regardless of the patent, "exclusivity" is much more valuable, and an extract could easily be patented."
Yes, and the value and profitability of that patented extract would be enormously greater when no one is allowed to legally own or use the natural version and thus anyone who wants the benefits has no choice but to buy it from big Pharma or go to jail.
It's a slam dunk. Make it illegal for anyone to own or use Kratom at the same time you develop And patent a Kratom based drug and bring it to market.
Instant monopoly .
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Everything I post is fiction.
Edited by Moonshoe (09/29/16 06:06 PM)
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Moonshoe]
#23691477 - 09/29/16 06:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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so sancho is telling me the ban has been set back?
is this true?
WHATS THE DEAL SHROOMERY?!
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OhMrJohnson
Ashes Against The Grain

Registered: 01/12/14
Posts: 17,544
Loc: Terra Incognita
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Re: Understanding the Kratom Ban [Re: Buger] 1
#23691636 - 09/29/16 06:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I believe that the Illuminati, also known as the "one-percent" or the "New World Order" is to blame for all of these atrocities
This is gonna be a long one so bear with me here

The real Illuminati clan is shrouded within a seemingly impenetrable tangle of mysteries, myths and stories.. a lot of people think of the "Illuminati" as in the Freemasons and similar groups.. my personal theory is that the Illuminati is something much different.. a very small circle of extremely powerful individuals who have been systematically brain-washed and enslaved by the "dead" alien(s) which are being held in total secrecy within Area 51, as they have been for almost 70 years and counting
I believe that when the UFO crash-landed in Roswell back in the day, it did not land there because of any accident, but because it was deliberately sent there by a highly advanced alien civilization which I believe to be above the Illuminati.. the ancient watchers from the Great Beyond, the ones who helped the Egyptians and the Mayans build their pyramids in exchange for worshipping them as gods..
They have been watching us for thousands of years before recorded history or longer, but before I go any further I want you to ponder these questions a little bit: isn't it rather interesting how in the past ~300 years, civilization as a whole has evolved far more rapidly than it ever has for the 10,000 years before it and now seems to be collapsing under its own weight?
Isn't it interesting how the ice caps are melting at such an alarming rate, the hole in the ozone layer above Antarctica is growing, there is an unfathomably enormous vortex of toxic sludge and refuse swirling around in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, and as if all that weren't bad enough there's also a nuclear reactor under the ocean leaking its radioactive guts 24/7, the Amazon rainforest is being destroyed at a rate of 20,000 square miles a year, carbon levels and temperatures are rising constantly, animals of all kinds are dying off in droves while the majority of the first-world lives in relative comfort and pretends that nothing is wrong with the state of the world?
You can call me crazy all you want but I've considered these particular topics a whole hell of a lot, and what I've come to believe is that human civilization as we know it today is afflicted by a deep cancer known as greed.. it is the greed of the one-percent which is responsible for all the unnecessary suffering and injustice in the world, and also for the desecration and destruction of Mother Earth for monetary gain.. I believe the advanced alien society watching over us is tribal in nature, and that they are infinitely kind and wise, beyond anything we can possibly imagine.. I imagine they are intensely upset and offended by what is happening on our planet and that they mean to put a stop to it, but they will not reveal themselves until they feel the time is right, or perhaps they will never reveal themselves.. however, they will continue to pull the strings from far above as they always have, they are the keepers of balance in this part of the Universe and I have faith that they will bring us out of these dark times and into a new golden age where all will be made clear
If you read this whole thing I applaud you, I enjoyed writing it, not simply a fiction story I just spun up but it's what I believe and I'm sticking to it
I'll save this thread and check back one day to see if I was right
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Diminish the sub-principle and leave its toxic trace.. Once and for all!
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