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OfflineDreamfarer
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Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?"
    #23685667 - 09/28/16 07:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Was reconnecting/smoking the the other night with some friends who I haven't seen in a year, telling them about going mad on truffles in Amsterdam and, once I got much more openly into exploring consciousness, exploring a few low doses of DMT, and one asked me to explain why I would want to alter my perception and experience of reality. Really, genuinely wanting to know.

Blitzed and watching No Man's Sky as I was, I tried to get him jazzed through talking about 1) DMT's natural presence in the body, 2) the history of its human use, 3) the short and non-cimpulsively-addictive nature of the trip, and 4) the shared visions, witnessings, and encounters had by people across both individual studies and era/geography. With a final little shpiel about the benefits of shaking up what we believe to be the lie agreed upon called reality and how psychedelics can often a person up, even if only gradually (as they did me) to the idea that the universe could be anything.

It was a rough, rushed hodge-pdge of McKenna, Pinchbeck, Hancock, and my own stuff, and while he ended by saying he'd be interested I realized I was rather unprepared.

So am curious to hear, Morpheus: given a few minutes, how would you answer the question?


--------------------
art and psychedelics help
they don't just “let you” have an experience.
they help you have your own experience.

https://alejoleo.wixsite.com/thespokenword


Edited by Dreamfarer (09/28/16 07:55 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Dreamfarer]
    #23685810 - 09/28/16 08:36 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I like visiting different perspectives while solving problems, and that is a factor; but the larger factor is that I get a charmed sense of being (and a sense that things are supposed to be charmed that way at least once per week), as if the angels had waved their wands in my direction - for part of each session it goes that way.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleRaven44
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23685868 - 09/28/16 09:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Two main reasons in my mind

1) to escape pain/fear

2) to learn (to expand ones conciousness)

I feel this would be a customized statement to the individual ur speaking to...

Buut, I might start with perspective is basically a personal opinion. By that I mean it can be changed simply by your beliefs patterns.

If u believe a certain race of humans are all bad people simply do to their race.. that perspective will never allow you to engage in any positive encounters with that race of people.

You will hold the perspective of thag race of people are all bad, and immediately upon sight u will destroy all chances of positive enlightening conversation with the perspective u hold. U will be thinking something along the lines of these people are all bad and ur thoughts  (or perspective )will never lead you to being friendly but the opposite

We are born into a society of collectively unconcious people. The society and our parents impress beliefs upon us very young that stick with us our entire lives. Those beliefs can be extremely difficult to break or to see through if u will and have an open mind and open thoughts on the given topic...

To change your perspective, or I might say to experience such a profound change in your conciousness can be extremely enlightening or rewarding for these reasons and more

Drugs like heroine, cocain, meth, alchohol are all used to escape pain and fear. End of story.

Hallucinogens aka entheogens are not. They do the opposite. They enlighten the user even when taken as a recreational toy. Although they should not be taken in such manner they should be respected to the fullest

EDIT: when I was microdosing for months and months on end... I found myself often having a thought...

Then I'd think twice, and often laugh at my previous thought because it was so obserd or negative... then I'd immediately have a much more positive or logical thought to follow

Hard to put into words, but the mushrooms were very positive humbling creatures it seems


Edited by Raven44 (09/28/16 11:07 PM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Dreamfarer]
    #23686926 - 09/28/16 02:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

alright this is how I might respond to your friends, imagining their further reponses which I will quote and respond further too. Looks like fun:cool:

Quote:

"why would you want to alter perception?"





:strokebeard:

WHY do you assume your perception isn't altered now?
Quote:


what?! MY perception is normal. What do you mean by that??!




Have you heard of propaganda?

Quote:

Yes. what's that got to do with it?




well, the ruling elite and their helpers are constantly using it on you!

With the sole purpose of altering your perception to keep to their agenda, or what they want you to accept as 'normal reality'. Thus your question is quite ironic, IF you understand what I mean?


Edited by zzripz (09/28/16 02:23 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: zzripz]
    #23687139 - 09/28/16 03:11 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
alright this is how I might respond to your friends, imagining their further reponses which I will quote and respond further too. Looks like fun:cool:

Quote:

"why would you want to alter perception?"





:strokebeard:

WHY do you assume your perception isn't altered now?
Quote:


what?! MY perception is normal. What do you mean by that??!




Have you heard of propaganda?

Quote:

Yes. what's that got to do with it?




well, the ruling elite and their helpers are constantly using it on you!

With the sole purpose of altering your perception to keep to their agenda, or what they want you to accept as 'normal reality'. Thus your question is quite ironic, IF you understand what I mean?



HOLY!
that explanation sounds like a whole argument,
beginning with converting the inquiry into an insult, and
continuing by resolving harmful intentions in the inquiry.

the fact is, psychedelics do something marvelous, maybe you do them or did, and it would be good to hear what you think about that, as opposed to more from the political manifesto s and conspiracies department.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23687525 - 09/28/16 04:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

beyond peradventure i want to know whether or not i can connect to a spiritual state of mind, and psychedelics are the way to do that.


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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #23687598 - 09/28/16 05:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Why wouldn't you? Our body is built to be an antennae, highly mobile and receptive to a broad spectrum of sensations wavelengths of energy which we interpret as sight, sound, touch. We can smell and taste the world.

I see my personal interpretation of reality (which may or may not [for the most part it will, but that's me] align with your personal interpretation of the same data) as a lens between my self and the outside world. This lens is like a microscope, telescope, the further lens (depending which end you look in [big or small] depending upon the task) would be the senses taking in the light (wavelengths of energy) and the closer lens would be personal conditioning and experience. This filter all know.

If you alter one, or both, the world changes. If you knowingly and willingly alter this lens with things like psychedelics it is putting kaleidoscopes in the lenses.
Experiencing things like "ego death", "breaking through" and so on, this is akin to stepping back from the lens and realizing you don't need to for awhile.

Anyone who is done a good amount of work on a microscope can tell you how good a relief it is to step away from the lens.


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: nuentoter]
    #23687629 - 09/28/16 05:26 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

in a way, psychedelics make art of the universe of thought and physics, in a very literal sense. it is a tool, in that sense, too.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Dreamfarer]
    #23687759 - 09/28/16 06:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I like the calmness of an inhibited sympathetic nervous system and the reduction of the fight or flight response because it's like removing mental white noise.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Dreamfarer] * 1
    #23687774 - 09/28/16 06:07 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dreamfarer said:
Was reconnecting/smoking the the other night with some friends who I haven't seen in a year, telling them about going mad on truffles in Amsterdam and, once I got much more openly into exploring consciousness, exploring a few low doses of DMT, and one asked me to explain why I would want to alter my perception and experience of reality. Really, genuinely wanting to know.

Blitzed and watching No Man's Sky as I was, I tried to get him jazzed through talking about 1) DMT's natural presence in the body, 2) the history of its human use, 3) the short and non-cimpulsively-addictive nature of the trip, and 4) the shared visions, witnessings, and encounters had by people across both individual studies and era/geography. With a final little shpiel about the benefits of shaking up what we believe to be the lie agreed upon called reality and how psychedelics can often a person up, even if only gradually (as they did me) to the idea that the universe could be anything.

It was a rough, rushed hodge-pdge of McKenna, Pinchbeck, Hancock, and my own stuff, and while he ended by saying he'd be interested I realized I was rather unprepared.

So am curious to hear, Morpheus: given a few minutes, how would you answer the question?




The first answer that comes to mind would be answering with another question... how can we know ourselves if we never give our mind space and the ability to see it from a new perspective?


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Hobozen]
    #23688261 - 09/28/16 08:05 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I alter my perception for a variety of different reasons.  They are in no particular order.

Avoid unwanted thoughts/feelings
Fun/Amusement
To feel good
To experience something different


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #23688280 - 09/28/16 08:10 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Avoid unwanted thoughts/feelings
Fun/Amusement
To feel good
To experience something different




You just answered why I love getting drunk.  There's more to tripping man; be more convincing.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Dreamfarer]
    #23688378 - 09/28/16 08:40 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Sometimes it's nice to alter your perceptions because some perceptions are based on the fears and worries of imagination and are not actual reflections of the reality someone has experienced.

Psychedelics are beneficial in allowing me to reflect on reality instead of the fantasies in my head, they aid me to define what is my imagination and what is my reality.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23689279 - 09/29/16 04:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
alright this is how I might respond to your friends, imagining their further reponses which I will quote and respond further too. Looks like fun:cool:

Quote:

"why would you want to alter perception?"





:strokebeard:

WHY do you assume your perception isn't altered now?
Quote:


what?! MY perception is normal. What do you mean by that??!




Have you heard of propaganda?

Quote:

Yes. what's that got to do with it?




well, the ruling elite and their helpers are constantly using it on you!

With the sole purpose of altering your perception to keep to their agenda, or what they want you to accept as 'normal reality'. Thus your question is quite ironic, IF you understand what I mean?



HOLY!
that explanation sounds like a whole argument,
beginning with converting the inquiry into an insult, and
continuing by resolving harmful intentions in the inquiry.

the fact is, psychedelics do something marvelous, maybe you do them or did, and it would be good to hear what you think about that, as opposed to more from the political manifesto s and conspiracies department.




you may file away subjects into safe separated com-part-ments, I do not and rather see interelation


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Raven44]
    #23692807 - 09/30/16 01:01 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dreamfarer said:

Drugs like heroine, cocaine, meth, alcohol are all used to escape pain and fear. End of story.



I think most chemical alteration of the mind, such as these, are used to escape our emotions.

We are terrified to look squarely at our inner emotional world.

So we numb ourselves . . .


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23692954 - 09/30/16 04:21 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

they are also agents used to escape unbearable cages people have to live in


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Dreamfarer]
    #23693018 - 09/30/16 05:30 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I consider living a life when one never alters one's perception to be as boring as just rocking back and forth in a straightjacket all day.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: viktor]
    #23693115 - 09/30/16 06:48 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

confinement


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23693125 - 09/30/16 06:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Exactly. A suffocating confinement; it feels utterly unnatural for me to not alter my perception.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlinepsilosalvia
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: viktor]
    #23693460 - 09/30/16 09:01 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I alter my perception to open my mind to points of view about my problems and personality, to work on my self on a higher consciousness-level.

All in all, simply to have a more meaningful and better life.


--------------------

        “Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.” -Edward Teach.


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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: psilosalvia]
    #23693465 - 09/30/16 09:04 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psilosalvia said:
I alter my perception to open my mind to points of view about my problems and personality, to work on my self on a higher consciousness-level.

All in all, simply to have a more meaningful and better life.




:thumbup:


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina


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OfflineLove_spirit
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Dreamfarer]
    #23693500 - 09/30/16 09:16 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

If it didn't feel good and create fresh and novel ways of thinking about things there would be no point.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: zzripz]
    #23695098 - 09/30/16 07:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:

they are also agents used to escape unbearable cages people have to live in




Over the course of 25 years, I created dozens of excuses for becoming intoxicated.

But now I can see clearly they were excuses, with no merit. 

We can break free from our prison without chemicals.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23695352 - 09/30/16 08:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

zzripz said:

they are also agents used to escape unbearable cages people have to live in




Over the course of 25 years, I created dozens of excuses for becoming intoxicated.

But now I can see clearly they were excuses, with no merit. 

We can break free from our prison without chemicals.



there's being intoxicated, and being really psychedelically enhanced,

please don't equate the two here, though you may have for 25 years in your own head (and I am actually glad you are over that)


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23695385 - 09/30/16 08:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
there's being intoxicated, and being really psychedelically enhanced




Yes, that one is on my long list :smile:

The term "enhanced" is a word I've used a lot


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23695483 - 09/30/16 09:07 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

asceticism and abstinence and meditation are all tools for "enhancement" to achieve enlightened states of mind -- in order to realize Nirvana.


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Raven44]
    #23695498 - 09/30/16 09:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Raven44 said:


Drugs like heroine, cocain, meth, alchohol are all used to escape pain and fear. End of story.







For some people, sure.

Not for everyone though.

Some people are interested in how substances will make them feel, and the states of consciousness which come from experimenting on oneself with such things.


--------------------
©️


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23695506 - 09/30/16 09:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Awakening is a destructive process. It has nothing to do with enhancement.

It has nothing to do with becoming better or being happier.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23695582 - 09/30/16 09:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Awakening is a destructive process. It has nothing to do with enhancement.

It has nothing to do with becoming better or being happier.



why is awakening destructive, except to unfinished dreams?


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23695985 - 10/01/16 12:13 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It's the crumbing away of untruth. It's totally abandoning our "story".

It's the annihilation of everything we imagined to be true.


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Offlinepsilosalvia
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23696000 - 10/01/16 12:22 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
It's the crumbing away of untruth. It's totally abandoning our "story".

It's the annihilation of everything we imagined to be true.




Shiva shambu

Destruction of the the objective truth.


--------------------

        “Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.” -Edward Teach.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: psilosalvia]
    #23696322 - 10/01/16 05:21 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I think awakening is more like getting lighter,
enlightenment,
no sense of destruction at all.
anticipating destruction is a false preparation for awakening.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleRaven44
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Lucis]
    #23696542 - 10/01/16 08:45 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Fennario said:
Quote:

Raven44 said:


Drugs like heroine, cocain, meth, alchohol are all used to escape pain and fear. End of story.







For some people, sure.

Not for everyone though.

Some people are interested in how substances om experimenting on oneself with such things.




:rolleyes:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23699378 - 10/02/16 07:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

"I make a distinction between different types of ego. One type of ego is self-cherishing in order to get some benefit for itself, disregarding the rights of others. This is negative ego. Another ego says, 'I must be a good human being. I must serve. I must take full responsibility.' That kind of strong feeling of 'I' or self opposes some of our negative emotions."

Dali Lama --Book Of Wisdom


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OfflineDreamfarer
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Raven44]
    #23699855 - 10/02/16 10:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Comment about what occurred when microdosing - fascinating! Would that all could...

Also makes me think a little of this:
Calvin: Sometimes when I'm talking, my words can't keep up with my thoughts. I wonder why we think faster than we speak.
Hobbes: Probably so we can think twice.

But I also appreciate your response because I've been experiencing something semi-similar lately, for some months really, where I'll be talking to someone and then my attention will seem to detach and side-step from the 1st person and take up temporary residence somewhere else just above. And I'll be able to observe the conversation, our patterns and language and so on, from a third perspective independent of us (but no doubt still informed by its connection with me). There's an idea in Buddhism of something like "know the mind that is doing the knowing" which could be an interesting thing to look up to support the psilocybin - unless you're not anymore, since you say "when I was..."?


--------------------
art and psychedelics help
they don't just “let you” have an experience.
they help you have your own experience.

https://alejoleo.wixsite.com/thespokenword


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OfflineDreamfarer
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Dreamfarer]
    #23700829 - 10/02/16 04:30 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks everyone for the responses! Much appreciated, and very stimulating. Lots of new language to use in communicating the kernels buried in my own ramblings...


--------------------
art and psychedelics help
they don't just “let you” have an experience.
they help you have your own experience.

https://alejoleo.wixsite.com/thespokenword


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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Dreamfarer]
    #23700841 - 10/02/16 04:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I use 4.7.5 stable lts


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina


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Offlinebeforethedawn
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: nuentoter]
    #23701037 - 10/02/16 05:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

To turn life into a living fairytale, primarily. If you don't want that, you don't need to associate with me anymore. Perhaps I'd prefer if you didn't?


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23702323 - 10/03/16 02:31 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Perception alteration is a perpetual, daily occurrence affecting everyone, whether it be through an influential television programme on a particular topic or a destructive monsoon.

Oddly the term has been abused by the very organisations who invest time and money into altering perception and so I think many people use certain substances and methods to get traction upon a more true path, to be able to step out of the static and have a look around free of the baggage of indoctrination.

With that said, I've found that some common things in the world which I previously viewed as fallacies did infact have great truths to them, so I feel as if I discovered in many cases, that the fallacy was ridicule itself, which attempts to laugh away valuable principles.

It's good to see where the detriments stem from as much as the assets.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Duncan Rowhl] * 1
    #23702529 - 10/03/16 06:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

so you, like zzrips, avoid the question to rant against  social conspiracy.

in the meantime,
this one question is actually germane to why people come to the Shroomery.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23702699 - 10/03/16 08:09 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

and like I already said, the problem here is not others 'rants' about 'social conspiracy', it is more your limited perception to see the significance of others points of views to do with this subject which IF paid attention to by you could alter your perception :eek:


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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23702735 - 10/03/16 08:23 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
I think many people use certain substances and methods to get traction upon a more true path, to be able to step out of the static and have a look around free of the baggage of indoctrination.

With that said, I've found that some common things in the world which I previously viewed as fallacies did infact have great truths to them, so I feel as if I discovered in many cases, that the fallacy was ridicule itself, which attempts to laugh away valuable principles.

It's good to see where the detriments stem from as much as the assets.




Red green, I guess I don't understand where you don't see an answer to the question. I understand interpretation is subjective, but this seems quite obviously a direct answer to the question.

Like zzripz said, I think your personal lens of perception needs to be swapped out for wide angle, or simply cleaned up.


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina


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Offlinesecondorder
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: nuentoter] * 1
    #23702833 - 10/03/16 09:08 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I love Dennis Mckenna's insight: that the reason drugs work so well is because we're made of drugs. To claim that one state of consciousness has a monopoly on truth, or 'reality' is to misunderstand our predicament. One is a hallucination and another is real? What are you using to evaluate which experience is real and which is a hallucination...? Other experiences? Which, themselves, may be hallucinations? And require further evaluation? Once you let this idea sink in a little bit, you begin to understand that taking psychedelics becomes not only an effective way to explore your own mind, but an effective way to explore the world.

To answer the question directly:

We are an experience driven society. People go on vacations, watch TV shows, see performances, listen to music, have sex etc. all for the purposes of attaining an array of satisfying, pleasurable, and fulfilling experiences. Why not simply add more avenues to your experiential repertoire?


Many very persuasive reasons for altering consciousness have been made over the years. Here are some of my favourites that come to mind:


Quote:

"Consciousness is the basis of both the examined and the unexamined life. It is all that can be seen, and that which does the seeing. No matter how far you have traveled from the place of your birth, and however much you now understand about the world, you have been exploring consciousness and its changes: Why not do so directly?"

- Sam Harris





Quote:

"I don't think you could discover consciousness if you didn't perturb it. Because, as Marshall Mcluhan said: 'Whoever discovered water, it certainly wasn't a fish.' Well... we are fish swimming in consciousness, and yet we know it's there. Well the reason we know it's there is because if you perturb it, then you see it. And you perturb it by perturbing the engine which generates it, which is the mind brain system resting behind your eyebrows. If you swap out the ordinary chemicals that are running that system, in an invisible fashion, then you see. It's like dropping ink into a bowl of clear water, suddenly the convection currents operating in the clear water become visible, because you see the particles of ink tracing out the previously invisible dynamics of the standing water. The mind is precisely like that, and the psychedelic is like a dye marker being dropped into this aqueous system, and then you see 'Oh I see, it works like this.'"

"I think, really, the worth in these psychedelics is simply that they allow you to triangulate upon reality. I mean, in other words, if all you've got is awake and asleep, you can't go far with that. But if you've got awake, asleep, and DMT as points, you can build a much more dimensionally rich model of consciousness."

"I mean, a hallucination is not like a Chevrolet, but on the other hand a Chevrolet is not like a hallucination. Why should we demand that these things co-map over each other? A hallucination is a species of reality as capable as teaching you as a videotape about Kilimanjaro or anything else that falls through your life."

- Terence Mckenna




Edited by secondorder (10/03/16 09:10 AM)


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Answering the question [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23704085 - 10/03/16 03:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
so you, like zzrips, avoid the question to rant against  social conspiracy.

in the meantime,
this one question is actually germane to why people come to the Shroomery.




Your general attitude tends to be volatile, so it's to be asked why you come here. 'Rant' appears only to be on your part,

In the meantime, we can only assume you visit to project anger, which in turn, challenges your very hypothesis, with you, yourself as evidence against. :wink:


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (10/03/16 03:58 PM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Answering the question [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23704167 - 10/03/16 04:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Your general attitude tends to be volatile




that's the last thing redgreenvines is.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Answering the question [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23704273 - 10/03/16 04:43 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I am not selling anything or promoting any politics,
very peaceful and very interested in keeping the air clear.
so we can think, you know.
or even not think but not be encumbered by mental debris.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Answering the question [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23704292 - 10/03/16 04:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I am not selling anything or promoting any politics,
very peaceful and very interested in keeping the air clear.
so we can think, you know.
or even not think but not be encumbered by mental debris.




I'm not sure how this relates to your previous expression which wasn't peaceful by any means.

Maybe what you've posted is your personal proposal of how you're going to carry yourself henceforth. :thumbup:


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (10/03/16 04:56 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23704326 - 10/03/16 04:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I am reacting to this, which was the core of your comment
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
...
Oddly the term has been abused by the very organisations who invest time and money into altering perception and so I think many people use certain substances and methods to get traction upon a more true path, to be able to step out of the static and have a look around free of the baggage of indoctrination.
...



as if the act of adjusting one's perception were for the "noble" purpose of liberation from corporate or government influence.

you might have a good point in some cases.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23704411 - 10/03/16 05:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I am reacting to this, which was the core of your comment
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
...
Oddly the term has been abused by the very organisations who invest time and money into altering perception and so I think many people use certain substances and methods to get traction upon a more true path, to be able to step out of the static and have a look around free of the baggage of indoctrination.
...



as if the act of adjusting one's perception were for the "noble" purpose of liberation from corporate or government influence.

you might have a good point in some cases.




My focus wasn't on the cause of your reaction however, but the way you reacted which left no amicable opening for reply.

I'd like to be able to reply now in light of you elaborating, but I'm still without the information pertaining to why you disagree - assuming you do.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Duncan Rowhl] * 1
    #23704432 - 10/03/16 05:31 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

being in the middle is not that bad a place


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Answering the question [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23704492 - 10/03/16 05:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
being in the middle is not that bad a place




A pew on the fence of a safe house from which you're emotionally teetered. :thumbup:


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (10/03/16 06:10 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Answering the question [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23704788 - 10/03/16 07:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

a church pew
from the police witness protection unit
perched on a fence with emotional instability is not my idea of being in the middle,
not at all.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Answering the question [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23704952 - 10/03/16 08:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

In the middle, dons a pew
Claim of peaceful night
Yet calling critique to a side
Though undisclosed view
Saves reaping of critique of you.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Answering the question [Re: Duncan Rowhl] * 1
    #23705286 - 10/03/16 10:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

do you know Daffy Duck?


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Answering the question [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23705439 - 10/03/16 11:22 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

To lead astray
From poor play!
Another day?
If they forget
In the mean
Tend the clean.


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Dreamfarer]
    #23705597 - 10/04/16 01:07 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Timothy Leary's last words were "Why not?"


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