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zzripz
Stranger


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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: redgreenvines]
#23702699 - 10/03/16 08:09 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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and like I already said, the problem here is not others 'rants' about 'social conspiracy', it is more your limited perception to see the significance of others points of views to do with this subject which IF paid attention to by you could alter your perception
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nuentoter
conduit



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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23702735 - 10/03/16 08:23 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: I think many people use certain substances and methods to get traction upon a more true path, to be able to step out of the static and have a look around free of the baggage of indoctrination.
With that said, I've found that some common things in the world which I previously viewed as fallacies did infact have great truths to them, so I feel as if I discovered in many cases, that the fallacy was ridicule itself, which attempts to laugh away valuable principles.
It's good to see where the detriments stem from as much as the assets.
Red green, I guess I don't understand where you don't see an answer to the question. I understand interpretation is subjective, but this seems quite obviously a direct answer to the question.
Like zzripz said, I think your personal lens of perception needs to be swapped out for wide angle, or simply cleaned up.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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secondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss



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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: nuentoter] 1
#23702833 - 10/03/16 09:08 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I love Dennis Mckenna's insight: that the reason drugs work so well is because we're made of drugs. To claim that one state of consciousness has a monopoly on truth, or 'reality' is to misunderstand our predicament. One is a hallucination and another is real? What are you using to evaluate which experience is real and which is a hallucination...? Other experiences? Which, themselves, may be hallucinations? And require further evaluation? Once you let this idea sink in a little bit, you begin to understand that taking psychedelics becomes not only an effective way to explore your own mind, but an effective way to explore the world.
To answer the question directly:
We are an experience driven society. People go on vacations, watch TV shows, see performances, listen to music, have sex etc. all for the purposes of attaining an array of satisfying, pleasurable, and fulfilling experiences. Why not simply add more avenues to your experiential repertoire?
Many very persuasive reasons for altering consciousness have been made over the years. Here are some of my favourites that come to mind:
Quote:
"Consciousness is the basis of both the examined and the unexamined life. It is all that can be seen, and that which does the seeing. No matter how far you have traveled from the place of your birth, and however much you now understand about the world, you have been exploring consciousness and its changes: Why not do so directly?"
- Sam Harris
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"I don't think you could discover consciousness if you didn't perturb it. Because, as Marshall Mcluhan said: 'Whoever discovered water, it certainly wasn't a fish.' Well... we are fish swimming in consciousness, and yet we know it's there. Well the reason we know it's there is because if you perturb it, then you see it. And you perturb it by perturbing the engine which generates it, which is the mind brain system resting behind your eyebrows. If you swap out the ordinary chemicals that are running that system, in an invisible fashion, then you see. It's like dropping ink into a bowl of clear water, suddenly the convection currents operating in the clear water become visible, because you see the particles of ink tracing out the previously invisible dynamics of the standing water. The mind is precisely like that, and the psychedelic is like a dye marker being dropped into this aqueous system, and then you see 'Oh I see, it works like this.'"
"I think, really, the worth in these psychedelics is simply that they allow you to triangulate upon reality. I mean, in other words, if all you've got is awake and asleep, you can't go far with that. But if you've got awake, asleep, and DMT as points, you can build a much more dimensionally rich model of consciousness."
"I mean, a hallucination is not like a Chevrolet, but on the other hand a Chevrolet is not like a hallucination. Why should we demand that these things co-map over each other? A hallucination is a species of reality as capable as teaching you as a videotape about Kilimanjaro or anything else that falls through your life."
- Terence Mckenna
Edited by secondorder (10/03/16 09:10 AM)
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2,659
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: so you, like zzrips, avoid the question to rant against social conspiracy.
in the meantime, this one question is actually germane to why people come to the Shroomery.
Your general attitude tends to be volatile, so it's to be asked why you come here. 'Rant' appears only to be on your part,
In the meantime, we can only assume you visit to project anger, which in turn, challenges your very hypothesis, with you, yourself as evidence against.
Edited by Duncan Rowhl (10/03/16 03:58 PM)
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Quote:
Your general attitude tends to be volatile
that's the last thing redgreenvines is.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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I am not selling anything or promoting any politics, very peaceful and very interested in keeping the air clear. so we can think, you know. or even not think but not be encumbered by mental debris.
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2,659
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: I am not selling anything or promoting any politics, very peaceful and very interested in keeping the air clear. so we can think, you know. or even not think but not be encumbered by mental debris.
I'm not sure how this relates to your previous expression which wasn't peaceful by any means.
Maybe what you've posted is your personal proposal of how you're going to carry yourself henceforth.
Edited by Duncan Rowhl (10/03/16 04:56 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23704326 - 10/03/16 04:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am reacting to this, which was the core of your comment
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: ... Oddly the term has been abused by the very organisations who invest time and money into altering perception and so I think many people use certain substances and methods to get traction upon a more true path, to be able to step out of the static and have a look around free of the baggage of indoctrination. ...
as if the act of adjusting one's perception were for the "noble" purpose of liberation from corporate or government influence.
you might have a good point in some cases.
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: redgreenvines]
#23704411 - 10/03/16 05:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: I am reacting to this, which was the core of your comment
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: ... Oddly the term has been abused by the very organisations who invest time and money into altering perception and so I think many people use certain substances and methods to get traction upon a more true path, to be able to step out of the static and have a look around free of the baggage of indoctrination. ...
as if the act of adjusting one's perception were for the "noble" purpose of liberation from corporate or government influence.
you might have a good point in some cases.
My focus wasn't on the cause of your reaction however, but the way you reacted which left no amicable opening for reply.
I'd like to be able to reply now in light of you elaborating, but I'm still without the information pertaining to why you disagree - assuming you do.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Duncan Rowhl] 1
#23704432 - 10/03/16 05:31 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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being in the middle is not that bad a place
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2,659
Loc: UK
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: being in the middle is not that bad a place
A pew on the fence of a safe house from which you're emotionally teetered.
Edited by Duncan Rowhl (10/03/16 06:10 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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a church pew from the police witness protection unit perched on a fence with emotional instability is not my idea of being in the middle, not at all.
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
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In the middle, dons a pew Claim of peaceful night Yet calling critique to a side Though undisclosed view Saves reaping of critique of you.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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do you know Daffy Duck?
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
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To lead astray From poor play! Another day? If they forget In the mean Tend the clean.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Answering the question "why would you want to alter perception?" [Re: Dreamfarer]
#23705597 - 10/04/16 01:07 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Timothy Leary's last words were "Why not?"
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