|
Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: akira_akuma]
#23690174 - 09/29/16 11:11 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Poverty in general doesn't go away. There will always be the haves & have nots. This isn't race specific either; that goes for every race & culture. So there will always be ghettos & trailer parks. Everyone can't have it all. But at least in America, there is the opportunity to work hard for a better life. It's possible, and people do it every day. And that fact gets lost in these debates.
--------------------
|
Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: Repertoire89]
#23690239 - 09/29/16 11:31 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Repertoire89 said: Well in America, rallies and riots brought us worker's rights.
Voting can make a difference, rallies can make a difference, media can, and organizing directly. The last one is what I think American's are really missing at this point.
oh don't get me wrong i think that stuff is essential, it's just it needs a government in office to influence and enact policy changes, but I'm with ya a more informed and active public is needed. I'm fairly convinced more accessible and better education is actually a huge factor in solving a lot of our problems long term too
|
Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: Dark_Star]
#23690248 - 09/29/16 11:33 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Dark_Star said: Poverty in general doesn't go away. There will always be the haves & have nots. This isn't race specific either; that goes for every race & culture. So there will always be ghettos & trailer parks. Everyone can't have it all. But at least in America, there is the opportunity to work hard for a better life. It's possible, and people do it every day. And that fact gets lost in these debates.
there will always be some disparity, even just in basic mental competency, but the divide can be narrowed substantially imo improving society overall. The notion there has to be abject poverty is just wrong: why do there have to be billionaires? There don't, and there shouldn't be any imo
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 8 hours, 58 minutes
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: Ezuma]
#23690296 - 09/29/16 11:49 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Ezuma said:
Quote:
Repertoire89 said: Well in America, rallies and riots brought us worker's rights.
Voting can make a difference, rallies can make a difference, media can, and organizing directly. The last one is what I think American's are really missing at this point.
oh don't get me wrong i think that stuff is essential, it's just it needs a government in office to influence and enact policy changes, but I'm with ya a more informed and active public is needed. I'm fairly convinced more accessible and better education is actually a huge factor in solving a lot of our problems long term too
You can't attempt to educate a group of people and expect different results when most of them reject the concept, and consistently under-perform relative to other groups.
|
Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: Ezuma]
#23690298 - 09/29/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Communism doesn't work. This has been shown time & time again.
--------------------
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 8 hours, 58 minutes
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: Ezuma]
#23690301 - 09/29/16 11:51 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Ezuma said:
Quote:
Dark_Star said: Poverty in general doesn't go away. There will always be the haves & have nots. This isn't race specific either; that goes for every race & culture. So there will always be ghettos & trailer parks. Everyone can't have it all. But at least in America, there is the opportunity to work hard for a better life. It's possible, and people do it every day. And that fact gets lost in these debates.
there will always be some disparity, even just in basic mental competency, but the divide can be narrowed substantially imo improving society overall. The notion there has to be abject poverty is just wrong: why do there have to be billionaires? There don't, and there shouldn't be any imo
Even more important than education is available employment, we shipped most of our low to medium skilled good paying jobs out of the US, education is no longer the fix.
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: Repertoire89] 1
#23690309 - 09/29/16 11:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
.
Edited by Prisoner#1 (09/30/16 11:44 AM)
|
hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: akira_akuma]
#23690319 - 09/29/16 11:58 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: hostileuniverse] 1
#23690321 - 09/29/16 11:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
wtf does that have to do with anything? 
i'm gonna go. you guys can shit up your shit with that retarded out of nowhere bullshit yourselves. 
Quote:
qman said: Even more important than education is available employment, we shipped most of our low to medium skilled good paying jobs out of the US, education is no longer the fix.
solution for the under-educated then? put them into entrepreneurship in Japan? trade high IQ students from Taiwan, for our low IQ, and let them deal with our under-educated....trade fix, FTW. :fuck you guys, i'm going home:
|
Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: qman] 1
#23690510 - 09/29/16 01:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Ezuma said:
Quote:
Repertoire89 said: Well in America, rallies and riots brought us worker's rights.
Voting can make a difference, rallies can make a difference, media can, and organizing directly. The last one is what I think American's are really missing at this point.
oh don't get me wrong i think that stuff is essential, it's just it needs a government in office to influence and enact policy changes, but I'm with ya a more informed and active public is needed. I'm fairly convinced more accessible and better education is actually a huge factor in solving a lot of our problems long term too
You can't attempt to educate a group of people and expect different results when most of them reject the concept, and consistently under-perform relative to other groups.
you can, it just takes time and perhaps a few angles of approach. More and more black people are involved in higher and higher level jobs, and eventually it'll reach a tipping point where enough evidence is there for the potential of blacks that other inner city blacks will start to question their own narrative of insurmountable odds and the problem will slowly disappear. I'm not saying it'll go away overnight, I imagine there will still be ghettos for many years to come even if we start working hard towards fixing the underlying problems.
|
Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: qman]
#23690522 - 09/29/16 01:03 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Ezuma said:
Quote:
Dark_Star said: Poverty in general doesn't go away. There will always be the haves & have nots. This isn't race specific either; that goes for every race & culture. So there will always be ghettos & trailer parks. Everyone can't have it all. But at least in America, there is the opportunity to work hard for a better life. It's possible, and people do it every day. And that fact gets lost in these debates.
there will always be some disparity, even just in basic mental competency, but the divide can be narrowed substantially imo improving society overall. The notion there has to be abject poverty is just wrong: why do there have to be billionaires? There don't, and there shouldn't be any imo
Even more important than education is available employment, we shipped most of our low to medium skilled good paying jobs out of the US, education is no longer the fix.
no, education is vital, not for job training only but to create informed citizens who understand their world and their part in it, and can then go on to be rational voters rather than emotion driven base monkeys who vite based on slogans and 'gut feelings'
but we ALSO need jobs. Its not a either or thing, its a both and imo. I'm all for keeping jobs inside the country and tariff's. I just think within that country the benefit of the people ought to rule, that includes jobs and education imo as well as regulating banks and major corporations
Edited by Ezuma (09/29/16 01:04 PM)
|
Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: Ezuma]
#23690528 - 09/29/16 01:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
democracy is meaningless if the voters have no education or access to information
|
Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: akira_akuma]
#23690531 - 09/29/16 01:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
Repertoire89 said: Fuck off with your trolling.
um fuck you?
i am not trolling. i mean literally you just described what Enlil and others have described doing, so stfu and stop arguing for the sake of arguing. opt out ninny.
Quote:
Dark_Star said: Communism doesn't work. This has been shown time & time again.
wtf, he didn't even mention communism. the concept is billions of dollars, ya don't need it. WTF does that have to do with Communism?
you guys have lost the plot.
No, I didn't lose the plot. He mentioned shrinking the disparity & that no one should be billionaires. That's classic communism; put everyone on equal ground. It doesn't fucking work. As has been shown. Furthermore, limiting the amount of money that one can make is putting your nose where it doesn't belong. Of course there should be billionaires. The opportunity is there, and it's not your place to deny it. Ask Dr. Dre, who came up on the streets & is now a billionaire what he thinks about that. He'll laugh you out of the room. Rags to riches happens. Classic American dream. And it's still possible.
--------------------
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: Dark_Star]
#23690599 - 09/29/16 01:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
i get what you're coming from, man, but i really seriously don't think he was saying "no one should be billionaires" as an argument for communism; i think what he was saying was "people should care to want to be billionaires", presumably because nobody needs to stash that kind of money for a rainy day...it's essentially sitting on a pile of paper, when you don't do anything with it. when does money stop being money and becomes just the paper that's printed? when it doesn't go into the currency. but this isn't an argument for communism, this is an argument against avarice.
|
Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: Dark_Star]
#23690604 - 09/29/16 01:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Dark_Star said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
Repertoire89 said: Fuck off with your trolling.
um fuck you?
i am not trolling. i mean literally you just described what Enlil and others have described doing, so stfu and stop arguing for the sake of arguing. opt out ninny.
Quote:
Dark_Star said: Communism doesn't work. This has been shown time & time again.
wtf, he didn't even mention communism. the concept is billions of dollars, ya don't need it. WTF does that have to do with Communism?
you guys have lost the plot.
No, I didn't lose the plot. He mentioned shrinking the disparity & that no one should be billionaires. That's classic communism; put everyone on equal ground. It doesn't fucking work. As has been shown. Furthermore, limiting the amount of money that one can make is putting your nose where it doesn't belong. Of course there should be billionaires. The opportunity is there, and it's not your place to deny it. Ask Dr. Dre, who came up on the streets & is now a billionaire what he thinks about that. He'll laugh you out of the room. Rags to riches happens. Classic American dream. And it's still possible.
socialism does work. By the same logic capitalism doesn't work, as it has never been perfected. From my understanding it is actually very realistic to have a society built upon a melding of socialist and capitalist principles.
also i never said put everyone on equal ground. Give everyone an equal access to education and public services to start, but wage disparity seems ideal to me to a degree. Some jobs are harder, or require more skill or what have you, and therefore there needs to be an incentive and a reward. My problem is I think the rewards of certain positions are out of ling with their actual value. Most regular folks, even most business owners are in line imo, or making too little, there's just a small fraction who gain more and more off of simply the fact they own capital. Not just a little, but massive amounts disproportionate usually to their actual contribution to society. That is heinous imo
hell we could still have millionaires, I just don't think it should be possible to become so obscenely wealthy especially off of a company simply inherited from daddy
|
koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,066
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 2 hours, 31 minutes
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: Dark_Star] 1
#23690608 - 09/29/16 01:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Dark_Star said: Nah. That shit was hundreds of years ago. They're not indirectly affected by slavery at all. The current racism is a different issue, and won't be solved by giving people money. If that was the case, affirmative action would've solved this problem. It didn't. And I don't buy into this white guilt bullshit. Wasn't even the sins of my father. My ancestors weren't even in this country until around WWII. Only slaves my ancestors may have owned were white Europeans they kidnapped during Viking raids.
You don't think that high levels of poverty in the black community is related to the fact that. for a few hundred years, most black people had no means to create wealth? Poverty is passed down through the generations just like wealth does. If you believe that coming from a rich family gives someone a great advantage in life, then you also must believe that coming from a poor family puts someone at a great disadvantage.
For the first few hundred years in this country, black families were legally prevented from acquiring wealth and property. They were the property. Yes it was 150 years ago, but that's only 5 generations or so.
Its like a relay race where one team has to wait for 20 seconds before they can start. Can we really expect the guy who runs the last leg to finish with the other runners? Is he lazy if he doesn't?
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
|
Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#23690620 - 09/29/16 01:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
akira_akuma said: i get what you're coming from, man, but i really seriously don't think he was saying "no one should be billionaires" as an argument for communism; i think what he was saying was "people should care to want to be billionaires", presumably because nobody needs to stash that kind of money for a rainy day...it's essentially sitting on a pile of paper, when you don't do anything with it. when does money stop being money and becomes just the paper that's printed? when it doesn't go into the currency. but this isn't an argument for communism, this is an argument against avarice.
I would prefer that it didn't need to be a matter of regulation, but clearly it does at some level. After all what does such an accumulation of wealth do for society? Often very little, the wealth leaves the country in off shore accounts, or is saved indefinitely for future heirs, and so little taxed in the US that it ought to be criminal. I've got nothing against higher reward for more work or better work, or even accumulation of wealth to a reasonable degree -I admit I don't know where the line ought to be drawn- but surely it's before the level of billions no?
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: Dark_Star]
#23690699 - 09/29/16 01:51 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Dark_Star said: I don't see what's so funny about some rednecks acting dumb. That's just rednecks being rednecks.
WTF is with the racial slurs man. cut that shit out you racist ass racist
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 8 hours, 58 minutes
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: koods]
#23690725 - 09/29/16 01:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Dark_Star said: Nah. That shit was hundreds of years ago. They're not indirectly affected by slavery at all. The current racism is a different issue, and won't be solved by giving people money. If that was the case, affirmative action would've solved this problem. It didn't. And I don't buy into this white guilt bullshit. Wasn't even the sins of my father. My ancestors weren't even in this country until around WWII. Only slaves my ancestors may have owned were white Europeans they kidnapped during Viking raids.
You don't think that high levels of poverty in the black community is related to the fact that. for a few hundred years, most black people had no means to create wealth? Poverty is passed down through the generations just like wealth does. If you believe that coming from a rich family gives someone a great advantage in life, then you also must believe that coming from a poor family puts someone at a great disadvantage.
For the first few hundred years in this country, black families were legally prevented from acquiring wealth and property. They were the property. Yes it was 150 years ago, but that's only 5 generations or so.
Its like a relay race where one team has to wait for 20 seconds before they can start. Can we really expect the guy who runs the last leg to finish with the other runners? Is he lazy if he doesn't?
What wealth did the second wave of European immigration have when they arrived into the US? Pretty much nothing.
You keep talking about this wealth that was passed on from generation to generation, that was only for a very small white minority of the population.
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism’ [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#23690730 - 09/29/16 01:58 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
akira_akuma said: thing is, those people that were directly effected by slavery (and can prove it, obviously) can help get those communities richen and prosper by being given reparations...to do with what they will.
in any event, at the very least, if it's all squandered, just imagine the headlines, and think about that concept. 
you're free to give them reparations if you so choose so they can get their communities richen and prosper
|
|