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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: **Official Presidential Debate Thread** [Re: koods]
#23682833 - 09/27/16 10:42 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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koods said: Naw. If you don't pay any tax, it means you don't have any net income. His losses/expenses are more than his gains. Paying a low rate around 10-15% means you are a good money manager. Paying nothing means you are a loser.
Real estate investing is much more complicated than "losses/expenses".
"Paying nothing means you are a loser"
Not necessarily true.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: **Official Presidential Debate Thread** [Re: qman]
#23682855 - 09/27/16 10:55 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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qman said:
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koods said: Naw. If you don't pay any tax, it means you don't have any net income. His losses/expenses are more than his gains. Paying a low rate around 10-15% means you are a good money manager. Paying nothing means you are a loser.
Real estate investing is much more complicated than "losses/expenses".
"Paying nothing means you are a loser"
Not necessarily true.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-income-tax-returns-once-became-public-they-showed-he-didnt-pay-a-cent/2016/05/20/ffa2f63c-1b7c-11e6-b6e0-c53b7ef63b45_story.html?tid=a_inl-amp
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trump had submitted his 1978 and 1979 returns to the regulators as part of an application for a casino license. State records summarizing the returns show that Trump claimed that his combined income during those two years was negative $3.8 million, allowing him to pay no taxes.
No.. he's just a loser who had negative income.
There's a reason he has paid out more to his companies from his campaign than he has donated... he needs the money. Trump is using campaign donations to increase his cash flow.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/27/16 10:58 AM)
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Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



Registered: 12/02/13
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Re: **Official Presidential Debate Thread** [Re: CookieCrumbs] 2
#23682969 - 09/27/16 11:38 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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CookieCrumbs said:
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Ezuma said:
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akira_akuma said: ethics is like viral memetics. if i can convince people of something, that acts as a virus, which can override evolutionary impulses.
you can be as right as ever (logic is a sort of black hole, eventually, but you can get by), but i can still win, if i can convince people to act against their own self-interest. to do so, you make them sin.
hahahaha absurdism for the win!
true, especially because mostly morals aren't actually based in reason but a more primitive habit of wanting to be part of the group, something I think most right wingers don't understand or ignore: morals aren't absolute and never were, and if everyone you know tells you killing babies is the right thing, you'll kill babies. Thing is that tribe will quickly sort itself out of course 
Atm I don't care to comment on the rest of this silliness but I'd like to point out how true this is. Infanticide was extremely common in many societies up until the 18th century.
and there are other examples, slavery was never seen as wrong in the ancient world, it was normalized. Public torture and execution were seen as entertainment, watched even by children until mere centuries ago, the death penalty never even questioned until philosophers touched on it with social contract theory. Rape was often seen as a just reward for conquering soldiers in many cultures, female genital mutilation and on and on
my point being, reason is what got us here, reason is what creates our noblest values, and the dismissal of reason in politics today threatens the entire foundation of human advancement. Truthiness cannot prevail, or the species will fail imo
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Thayendanegea
quiet walker



Registered: 02/20/12
Posts: 7,596
Loc: 7 Lodges Nation
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Re: **Official Presidential Debate Thread** [Re: qman]
#23683452 - 09/27/16 02:48 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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qman said:
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koods said: Naw. If you don't pay any tax, it means you don't have any net income. His losses/expenses are more than his gains. Paying a low rate around 10-15% means you are a good money manager. Paying nothing means you are a loser.
Real estate investing is much more complicated than "losses/expenses".
"Paying nothing means you are a loser"
Not necessarily true.
He works through corporations....corporations have to file corporate tax returns....to not pay taxes....you have to show a loss or no income....This is the way it works. Of course salaries are just a line item on the P & L's...He could be paying himself a huge salary that would be a line item expense for his company. In other words, he could still make a shit ton of money from the corporation without the corporation having to pay taxes. His personal income would go up and he would have to pay taxes on that unless he somehow hides that.
Edited by Thayendanegea (09/27/16 02:52 PM)
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: **Official Presidential Debate Thread** [Re: Thayendanegea]
#23683478 - 09/27/16 02:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thayendanegea said:
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qman said:
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koods said: Naw. If you don't pay any tax, it means you don't have any net income. His losses/expenses are more than his gains. Paying a low rate around 10-15% means you are a good money manager. Paying nothing means you are a loser.
Real estate investing is much more complicated than "losses/expenses".
"Paying nothing means you are a loser"
Not necessarily true.
He works through corporations....corporations have to file corporate tax returns....to not pay taxes....you have to show a loss or no income....This is the way it works. Of course salaries are just a line item on the P & L's...He could be paying himself a huge salary that would be a line item expense for his company. In other words, he could still make a shit ton of money from the corporation without the corporation having to pay taxes. His personal income would go up and he would have to pay taxes on that unless he somehow hides that.
Depreciation and interest expenses can really reduce those taxable "profits" on the balance sheet.
In fact, while depreciating the property for tax purposes, the property could have appreciated 15% for the year. You will never see that on a tax return.
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falsereality


Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 4,112
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Re: **Official Presidential Debate Thread** [Re: Thayendanegea]
#23683479 - 09/27/16 02:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thayendanegea said: He works through corporations....corporations have to file corporate tax returns....to not pay taxes....you have to show a loss or no income....This is the way it works.
Yup, I used to shove profits into our operating capital budget so it could be used to buy computer hardware and other fixed assets. Completely legal loophole that drastically reduces taxes due to depreciation allowance.
I suspect Trump does this by moving profits into his corporation' operating capital to buy property to receive preferential tax treatment.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,066
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
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Re: **Official Presidential Debate Thread** [Re: Thayendanegea]
#23683501 - 09/27/16 03:05 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thayendanegea said:
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qman said:
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koods said: Naw. If you don't pay any tax, it means you don't have any net income. His losses/expenses are more than his gains. Paying a low rate around 10-15% means you are a good money manager. Paying nothing means you are a loser.
Real estate investing is much more complicated than "losses/expenses".
"Paying nothing means you are a loser"
Not necessarily true.
He works through corporations....corporations have to file corporate tax returns....to not pay taxes....you have to show a loss or no income....This is the way it works. Of course salaries are just a line item on the P & L's...He could be paying himself a huge salary that would be a line item expense for his company. In other words, he could still make a shit ton of money from the corporation without the corporation having to pay taxes. His personal income would go up and he would have to pay taxes on that unless he somehow hides that.
We're not talking about tax returns for his companies. We're talking about his personal income taxes.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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falsereality


Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 4,112
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Re: **Official Presidential Debate Thread** [Re: koods]
#23683508 - 09/27/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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koods said: We're not talking about tax returns for his companies. We're talking about his personal income taxes.
The two are related in that he could invest in fixed assets with a depreciation allowance such as property, planes, helicopters, cars... pretty much anything remotely used for business. By doing this, he probably doesn't take home that much on paper but he has all the cool toys that accompany being a billionaire.
Edited by falsereality (09/27/16 03:08 PM)
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,066
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Last seen: 20 minutes, 50 seconds
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Re: **Official Presidential Debate Thread** [Re: falsereality]
#23683532 - 09/27/16 03:18 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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falsereality said:
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Thayendanegea said: He works through corporations....corporations have to file corporate tax returns....to not pay taxes....you have to show a loss or no income....This is the way it works.
Yup, I used to shove profits into our operating capital budget so it could be used to buy computer hardware and other fixed assets. Completely legal loophole that drastically reduces taxes due to depreciation allowance.
I suspect Trump does this by moving profits into his corporation' operating capital to buy property to receive preferential tax treatment.
You can't move money between your corporation and your personal finances without structuring it as a loan, a payment, wages, investment, capital gains or a gift. It's all very sketchy and probably is the reason why he pays so many fines to the IRS. Trump has paid himself millions of dollars from his campaign just for the use of the plane alone. I feel bad for his donors that they are suckers in another money making scheme from a professional scam artist.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Thayendanegea
quiet walker



Registered: 02/20/12
Posts: 7,596
Loc: 7 Lodges Nation
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Re: **Official Presidential Debate Thread** [Re: falsereality]
#23683657 - 09/27/16 04:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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falsereality said:
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koods said: We're not talking about tax returns for his companies. We're talking about his personal income taxes.
The two are related in that he could invest in fixed assets with a depreciation allowance such as property, planes, helicopters, cars... pretty much anything remotely used for business. By doing this, he probably doesn't take home that much on paper but he has all the cool toys that accompany being a billionaire.
Yeah, I know...but if he has LLC's or subchapter S corps...they can show up on his personal taxes. In any case, I find it hard to see how he could avoid paying any taxes if he has all this income that he brags about. The fact that he bragged about it last night was pretty revolting....Especially to someone like me that owns a business and struggles to make ends meet because I pay what I'm supposed to pay. It's just one more completely vile thing about this man that nauseates me.
-------------------- Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better. Albert Einstein
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falsereality


Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 4,112
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Re: **Official Presidential Debate Thread** [Re: Thayendanegea]
#23683673 - 09/27/16 04:12 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thayendanegea said: Yeah, I know...but if he has LLC's or subchapter S corps...they can show up on his personal taxes. In any case, I find it hard to see how he could avoid paying any taxes if he has all this income that he brags about. The fact that he bragged about it last night was pretty revolting....Especially to someone like me that owns a business and struggles to make ends meet because I pay what I'm supposed to pay. It's just one more completely vile thing about this man that nauseates me.
If you ever need a consultation feel free to hit me up. I'll put your money to work, dig up dirt on your competitors and then boost your rankings on google to page one.
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