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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Great Scott] * 2
    #23798384 - 11/03/16 05:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah if Hillary lied about her emails then the polls are rigged.

Brilliant deduction.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Webster10]
    #23798385 - 11/03/16 05:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Webster10 said:
...polls aren't facts.



If you know the "real" numbers, where do you get them from?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Great Scott]
    #23798397 - 11/03/16 05:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
It's a fact that the polls say Trump is losing.

Just like it's a fact that Hillary said she dindu nuffin'.

I'm seeing a trend here.



Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Yeah if Hillary lied about her emails then the polls are rigged.

Brilliant deduction.




I wasn't making that deduction.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Great Scott]
    #23798406 - 11/03/16 05:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I think you were.  Otherwise, what point were you making?  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23798429 - 11/03/16 05:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
what point were you making?  :shrug:




That facts can be twisted and misinterpreted to push an erroneous narrative.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Great Scott] * 1
    #23798449 - 11/03/16 05:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

lol, no.

Otherwise you wouldnt have suggested theres a trend, which makes no contextual sense given your walked back explanation.


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OfflineWebster10
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23798455 - 11/03/16 05:37 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

If you two can't understand the point Peyote was making, I feel sorry for both of you.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Webster10] * 1
    #23798527 - 11/03/16 05:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

We all know the point he was making, and its a fallacious one.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23798621 - 11/03/16 06:28 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Polls are not facts. Polls are speculative. The only thing factual about a poll is the fact that a poll's results exist. There is nothing factual about the results themselves.
(ie: see Brexit, where they polled that the referendum would lose by double digits, which we now know in hindsight did not reflect any facts, let alone even an accurate speculation)

Y'all put way too much faith in these things. Just like people put way too much faith in Hillary's word, which in effect, is putting your faith into a lie.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Great Scott]
    #23798691 - 11/03/16 06:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Polls are not facts. Polls are speculative. The only thing factual about a poll is the fact that a poll's results exist. There is nothing factual about the results themselves.
(ie: see Brexit, where they polled that the referendum would lose by double digits, which we now know in hindsight did not reflect any facts, let alone even an accurate speculation)



Here are the polls regarding Brexit, and the average is Brexit losing by only about 2% with a typical margin of error of about +-5% per poll.

https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/

ALL recent polls show Bernie leading Trump by a margin far greater than the margin of error.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #23798729 - 11/03/16 06:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Clearly the most popular Senator in the country outpolling the least popular presidential candidate in modern history is made up. :cookiemonster:


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Offlineqman
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Brian Jones]
    #23799157 - 11/03/16 09:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

amp244 said:
Trump has much more actual support than Hillary, yet Hillary is "winning" by slim margins in all of the left-biased polls because there is a fix in.



Trump hired his own polling company, and now he's refusing to pay them because he is dissatisfied with their service.




Every scientific poll has Hillary way ahead, but the other side saying is they are in love with nonscientific polls because they are the only one who ever said Trump was winning or he won a debate. In a week it's over for 8 years, but unfortunately, the stupid shit on here won't ever end. We live in an era where facts are meaningless. The economy goes up significantly every quarter. The stupidity is not going to end, but it it's worse on the Shroomery than in real life. Stay on here and stay  on the on the internet, because nobody in real life has any interest in your opinions.




"The economy goes up significantly every quarter"

Do you have any understanding of economics?  :facepalm:



Yes I have an understanding of labor economics at the graduate level.




Then why are you making fallacious statements on the current state of the economy?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: qman]
    #23799253 - 11/03/16 10:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
The economy goes up significantly every quarter



Do you have any understanding of economics?  :facepalm:



Yes I have an understanding of labor economics at the graduate level.



Then why are you making fallacious statements on the current state of the economy?



Let's see, under Obama...

Over 10 million jobs were created
Unemployment went down 5%
Corporate profits are up 15%
The stock market is up over 150%
GDP per capita is back to normal

Ya, I'd say the economy has improved.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23799264 - 11/03/16 10:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

For every person that get's laid off and has to take up 3 part-time jobs, Obama adds 2 new job creations to his resume.

The economy is booming!

Lolibz


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Great Scott] * 1
    #23799292 - 11/03/16 10:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

"has improved" is not the same as "booming."  It was a total shitstorm when Obama came in, and now, not as much.  I don't see why this is a contentious subject at all.   
Now if you want to say that Obama and/or his/Dem policies had anything/nothing to do with this improvement, be my guest, but the improvement itself seems self evident (even if it isn't enough).


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Offlineqman
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23799302 - 11/03/16 10:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
The economy goes up significantly every quarter



Do you have any understanding of economics?  :facepalm:



Yes I have an understanding of labor economics at the graduate level.



Then why are you making fallacious statements on the current state of the economy?



Let's see, under Obama...

Over 10 million jobs were created
Unemployment went down 5%
Corporate profits are up 15%
The stock market is up over 150%
GDP per capita is back to normal

Ya, I'd say the economy has improved.




Yet, GDP remains weak, demand remains weak, credit growth remains weak, wages remain weak and debt levels continue to soar higher.

"I'd say the economy has improved"

From 2008, yes, from 2007, no.

Here we are in 2016 and the Federal Reserve still can NOT hike interest rates as it still remains at 0%, it's a disaster.

Just wait until we hit a recession or even a financial crisis, those Obama years will a distant memory, nothing has been fixed.


Edited by qman (11/03/16 10:32 PM)


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Offlineqman
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23799311 - 11/03/16 10:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
"has improved" is not the same as "booming."  It was a total shitstorm when Obama came in, and now, not as much.  I don't see why this is a contentious subject at all.   
Now if you want to say that Obama and/or his/Dem policies had anything/nothing to do with this improvement, be my guest, but the improvement itself seems self evident (even if it isn't enough).




The wealth inequality is at a 80 year high, very few people are involved in this "improvement" Obama brags about, he's a sellout House Negro.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: qman] * 1
    #23799345 - 11/03/16 10:39 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
"has improved" is not the same as "booming."  It was a total shitstorm when Obama came in, and now, not as much.  I don't see why this is a contentious subject at all.   
Now if you want to say that Obama and/or his/Dem policies had anything/nothing to do with this improvement, be my guest, but the improvement itself seems self evident (even if it isn't enough).




The wealth inequality is at a 80 year high, very few people are involved in this "improvement" Obama brags about,




I agree with the sentiment, as do most people around here i think (though i'll not speak for them).  Again, improvement doesn't imply perfection, or completion, or satisfaction. 

Quote:

he's a sellout House Negro.




I'm not touching this with a ten foot pole.


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Invisibleamp244
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #23799578 - 11/04/16 12:57 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

"The economy goes up significantly every quarter"...
Well then by now, the economy should be WAY up there, at like, a hundred million! Or something?

That's like when somebody who doesn't know shit about cars starts trying to act like he does all his own work in front of someone who actually does. Its very easy for people who study economics, or people who work on cars, to tell when other people try to play pretend.

The interest rates have been near zero for quite some time. There is no new middle class growth, and no option of pushing rates lower to spur borrowing and subsequent investment. The only thing they can do is back off regulations/barriers to new business entrants and let the profit incentive do its thing. Unless you want to take that inevitable Stalin approach, the profit incentive is the only thing that will get people to invest in anything. The gov't is what fucked the economy up in the first place. You won't believe me if you get your information from NPR or NBC, but that doesn't change the science of economics and the fact that money that should be put to use, is not being put to use.

Any economic improvement has been realized by a very small slice of the pie. Omitting all of Falcon's little factoids, go to the inner cities (make sure you don't carry cash) and see the conditions these people live in. Notice how the expense of food takes up ALOT more of your disposable income year after year, notice how more people are struggling pay check to pay check, notice how more people are on welfare, notice how employers are leaving the country and how the sense of this whole society being a "rat race" is becoming more present. If money was being invested and putting people and resources to work, we wouldn't be sitting here having these arguments. Bernie and Trump wouldn't be so popular if the economy was going "up significantly every quarter". There is a reason why we have all collectively identified the economy as an area of deep concern, you know?

I'm curious to know which quarters you are counting Brian. If you observe up all of the quarters during Obama's tenure you get nothing but growing inequality and poverty. Please tell me what measure you are using that substantiates your claim of recent economic prosperity/positivity?


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Edited by amp244 (11/04/16 01:08 AM)


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Invisibleamp244
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23799610 - 11/04/16 01:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
"has improved" is not the same as "booming."  It was a total shitstorm when Obama came in, and now, not as much.  I don't see why this is a contentious subject at all.   
Now if you want to say that Obama and/or his/Dem policies had anything/nothing to do with this improvement, be my guest, but the improvement itself seems self evident (even if it isn't enough).



A balloon is not improvement. You have the illusion of improvement, the upper class gets to have fun watching their e-trade accounts balloon, while the quality of life of low and middle class citizens (the overwhelming bulk of the population) goes down. More children live in poverty today than when Obama got into office. The future of the children in the coming generation looks no less grim, than it did in 2008. As a matter of fact, with the whole college debt, healthcare premiums, and inequality it looks much worse.

You saying that Obama has improved the economy, is like saying that someone with skin cancer on their forearm has improved their health by wearing an athletic sleeve covering it at all times. In both instances, nothing has actually improved. Things appear to be getting better, while they are actually getting worse.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


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