|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 8 hours, 17 minutes
|
Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23776815 - 10/27/16 01:43 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: So now your claim is that corporations want to regulate themselves more and raise the minimum wage
It must be the small business owners throwing billions at Congress to stop that from happening.

You don't get it, the corporations lobby for more regulations to kill small businesses, they don't care about the regulations when they capture more market share, why is that such a difficult concept to understand?
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
|
Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: qman] 2
#23776846 - 10/27/16 01:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Can you provide an example of a corporation lobbying for more regulation?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 8 hours, 17 minutes
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Can you provide an example of a corporation lobbying for more regulation?
Are you serious, who do you think does this lobbying for more business regulation, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren? 
It's about tax loopholes, insurance, finding cheaper labor, and lobbying power in general.
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
|
Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: qman] 1
#23777093 - 10/27/16 03:07 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Yes, I'm serious. I'm not looking for "in general", I'm looking for specific examples.
From what I can tell, it's the people who lobby for regulations like Glass-Steagall, and corporations that lobby to get rid of those regulations.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Subfunk
Stranger

Registered: 10/24/16
Posts: 5
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
|
|
well its a sad set of choices this election, do you want the satan on the left or the satan on the right?
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
|
Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Subfunk] 3
#23777220 - 10/27/16 03:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Neither - I voted Jill Stein.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
amp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
|
Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: qman]
#23777293 - 10/27/16 04:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
PeyoteZen said:
Quote:
Soros is a well known supporter of American progressive and American liberal political causes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros
He's a leftist, bro. Don't be thick.
Yeah I'm sure he wants to raise taxes and regulation on himself and his empire.
Contrary to Republican rhetoric, business regulation is a corporate agenda to push down small businesses and to gain corporate market share. It has worked very well in the past 25 years.
In fact, the same corporate powers have no issue with a higher minimum wage, as they also know it will kill small businesses and only help corporations gain more market share.
So people like Soros do push for these polices, they have very good reasons for doing so, even more money over the medium and long term.
^^^ What he said ^^^
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
|
amp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
|
Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23777297 - 10/27/16 04:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: So now your claim is that corporations want to regulate themselves more and raise the minimum wage
It must be the small business owners throwing billions at Congress to stop that from happening.

^^^ facepalm ^^^
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
|
Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: amp244] 1
#23777523 - 10/27/16 05:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
amp244 said:
Quote:
qman said: Contrary to Republican rhetoric, business regulation is a corporate agenda to push down small businesses and to gain corporate market share. It has worked very well in the past 25 years.
In fact, the same corporate powers have no issue with a higher minimum wage, as they also know it will kill small businesses and only help corporations gain more market share.
So people like Soros do push for these polices, they have very good reasons for doing so, even more money over the medium and long term.
^^^ What he said ^^^
Can you provide an example of a corporation lobbying for more regulation?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 3 hours, 43 minutes
|
|
Gonna be waiting a while.
--------------------
|
amp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
|
Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#23777725 - 10/27/16 06:09 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Phillip Morris lobbying for heightened regulation of tobacco advertising to cut competitors out and maintain/gain market share. You know, like Qman said.
McDonalds, Kraft, Starbucks, among others, spent millions lobbying for food "safety" regulations. They are trying to, uh, you know, create disincentives for potential small competitors, like Qman said.
How about energy companies lobbying for Cap and Trade? I can't even make sense of that
Just because you guys are incapable of googling "corporations lobbying for regulations", or something similar, doesn't mean that the corporations aren't lobbying for regulations so that smaller, less equipped companies, are burdened disproportionally. They can't hire tax lawyers and other professionals specifically for the purpose of sorting out the bureaucratic red tape, like Kraft, Starbucks, and Philip Morris can do.
Once again, like Qman said, How is this such a hard concept to grasp? What scares you about the fact that large corporations will lobby for regulations that erect barriers to entry to discourage small competitors?
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
|
Great Scott
Trigger Lover


Registered: 05/05/03
Posts: 19,797
Loc: Control Grid
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: amp244] 1
#23777748 - 10/27/16 06:14 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I thought this would be obvious to anyone who spends any significant amount of time following politics. 
Libtards gonna libtard, I guess.
--------------------
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
|
Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: amp244] 1
#23777873 - 10/27/16 06:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
amp244 said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Can you provide an example of a corporation lobbying for more regulation?
Phillip Morris lobbying for heightened regulation of tobacco advertising to cut competitors out and maintain/gain market share.
McDonalds, Kraft, Starbucks, among others, spent millions lobbying for food "safety" regulations. They are trying to, uh, you know, create disincentives for potential small competitors.
How about energy companies lobbying for Cap and Trade? I can't even make sense of that
Thanks for backing up your claim.
Quote:
amp244 said: Just because you guys are incapable of googling "corporations lobbying for regulations", or something similar, doesn't mean that the corporations aren't lobbying for regulations so that smaller, less equipped companies, are burdened disproportionally.
Burden of Proof is ALWAYS on the person making a claim. That's Logic 101.
Quote:
amp244 said: Once again, like Qman said, How is this such a hard concept to grasp? What scares you about the fact that large corporations will lobby for regulations that erect barriers to entry to discourage small competitors?
I get it and it's easy to understand. And I never claimed it doesn't happen, I simply asked for an example. Burden of proof falls on the person making a claim.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Great Scott
Trigger Lover


Registered: 05/05/03
Posts: 19,797
Loc: Control Grid
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
|
Kinda seemed like you were alluding that it doesn't happen. Kinda seems like you're slithering away now.
--------------------
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
|
Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Great Scott] 1
#23777994 - 10/27/16 07:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Kinda seems like I was asking the person making a claim to back it up. Kinda seems like you're not a big fan of Burden of Proof.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Great Scott
Trigger Lover


Registered: 05/05/03
Posts: 19,797
Loc: Control Grid
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
|
You got the examples you requested, now quit deflecting and address it (even if it means *GASP* having to swallow your pride and changing your position).
--------------------
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
|
Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Great Scott] 2
#23778147 - 10/27/16 07:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I accepted the examples as soon as they were given (and I never claimed they didn't exist). I have no idea why you think I should change my position that George Soros "doesn't make the voting machines, and his ties aren't very strong at all" (or any other position I've taken).
You seem a bit thrilled that a conservative was able to back up his own claim. I kind of am too.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (10/27/16 08:52 PM)
|
Crumist
Stranger


Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 781
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Can you provide an example of a corporation lobbying for more regulation?
Qman provided a legitimate example, but this here blows up my notion that regulations tend to strangle small business and benefit mega corp.
Regulations, criminal justice reform, tort reform, immigration reform are far too complex to be answered with a "more/less" or "yes/no." There should be as many (and smarter, more effective) regulations as are required to balance cost-of-business with things like consumer protection and market neutrality.
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
|
Great Scott
Trigger Lover


Registered: 05/05/03
Posts: 19,797
Loc: Control Grid
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I accepted the examples as soon as they were given (and I never claimed they didn't exist). I have no idea why you think I should change my position that George Soros "doesn't make the voting machines, and his ties aren't very strong at all" (or any other position I've taken).
Don't be so naive.
Quote:
Smartmatic is owned by Lord Mark Malloch-Brown. He is connected to Soros through the Open Society Foundation, an organization that gives grants to civil society organizations around the world. Malloch-Brown serves on the Open Society Global Board. Smartmatic says on its website, "George Soros does not have and has never had any ownership stake in Smartmatic."
http://www.businessinsider.com/george-soros-connection-to-voting-machines-2016-10
In other words, there is plausible deniability there. Whoop-di-freakin-do. Welcome to the world of white collar crookdom, where they excel at setting up complex networks to exonerate themselves from perceived wrongdoings. The question is... why are you so committed to falling for it?
--------------------
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,658
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Great Scott]
#23778416 - 10/27/16 09:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
PeyoteZen said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I accepted the examples as soon as they were given (and I never claimed they didn't exist). I have no idea why you think I should change my position that George Soros "doesn't make the voting machines, and his ties aren't very strong at all" (or any other position I've taken).
Don't be so naive.
Quote:
Smartmatic is owned by Lord Mark Malloch-Brown. He is connected to Soros through the Open Society Foundation, an organization that gives grants to civil society organizations around the world. Malloch-Brown serves on the Open Society Global Board. Smartmatic says on its website, "George Soros does not have and has never had any ownership stake in Smartmatic."
http://www.businessinsider.com/george-soros-connection-to-voting-machines-2016-10
In other words, there is plausible deniability there. Whoop-di-freakin-do. Welcome to the world of white collar crookdom, where they excel at setting up complex networks to exonerate themselves from perceived wrongdoings. The question is... why are you so committed to falling for it?
During early voting - on the machines where Im near - several individuals went in a selected an ALL republican ballot - and guess what? Everything was republican except ! ta da! Trump/Pence Switched To Hillary/Kain...go figure... This politicol collusion is transparant and oh so forward they dont even try to hide it any more, they just hope your too drunk or distracted or tired to pay attention.
Fuck em. With love
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
|
|