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Great Scott
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#23698067 - 10/01/16 06:54 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Webster10] 1
#23698292 - 10/01/16 08:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Webster10 said: Anyone with an ounce of common sense would know that.
Oh ya? Well anyone with two ounces of common sense would know that's not true. Neener neener.
Did I win, or do you understand that your kindeegarten logic doesn't work?
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The Ecstatic said: When lawyers say stupid shit like that when trying to defend their argument in court, smarter lawyers object. And judges sustain.
Looks like you already beat me to it.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Great Scott
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Quit shilling. It's not good for your mental health.
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: starfire_xes] 3
#23698357 - 10/01/16 08:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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starfire_xes said: Everyone single person here missed the real message of both candidates during this debate:
Hillary's position: lets have business as usual that'll fix things.
Trumps position: For Christsake, let's try something different because the same old bullshit we've tried for the last 30 years hasn't worked.
Simple.
Trump was continuously comparing himself to Reagan, but calling himself more extreme. Every president we have had since Reagan has been a subsequent Reagan. What the fuck are you talking about? Trickle down economics IS more of the same, and Trump appears to want to be the trickliest of the downiest! He wants to piss on America!
Your post is exemplary of American stupidity. Absolutely exemplary. It is a childish simplification of your already misinterpreted analysis of this debate.
Falcon is the only fucking one of you people with half a fucking whit, enough to actually analyze this debate in any sort of sober minded fashion.
I wish more of you had understood monopoly when you played it as children.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (10/01/16 08:46 PM)
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: amp244] 3
#23698439 - 10/01/16 09:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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amp244 said:
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ballsalsa said: Since people live today under a regime of taxes and have since the early 20th century (in terms of income tax), i'm not sure i understand how pre-1850s economics relate to 21st century home ownership.
It shows that despite all this control the elite exercise and have apparently been exercising the entire time (according to others) private property still exists to the degree that creates a U.S. where 64% of houses are owned by their occupants. 64% of the population aren't considered "elites" are they? How do you all propose that this wealth entered the working class if everything is so terribly inequitable? It didn't come from taxes. It came from economic freedom and the profit incentive.
Maybe it has something to do with the G.I. bill, Fannie Mae, the National Housing Act of 1934, or any number of efforts by the federal government to make housing more affordable.
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what you are describing is the basis of belief in supply side economics (reaganomics, voodoo economics). Guess what, Americans have been steadily increasing in productivity while wages have stagnated for 40 years. Maybe a few more tax breaks for the "job creators" will magically work this time...
amp244 said: I absolutely advocate supply side economics. Anyone with a cursory interest in economics will note that I am obviously of the Austrian school of thought. But its important to note that nothing will work if the govt doesn't do its job as watch-dog. Don't blame supply side economics when the gov't is sold to the highest bidder and anti-trust laws are ignored. Don't blame the Austrian school when the SEC and other regulators are a JOKE. Its not capitalisms fault. Its not freedoms fault. If your car doesn't have any axels on it, with all the other parts in perfect working order, you can start the motor and put it in gear, but it still wont go anywhere. The car will not work. It would be foolish to then conclude that the motor needs to be replaced because the car isn't moving, but that's exactly how people think in regards to capitalism. Society is the car, capitalism is the motor. Things aren't functioning properly so the conclusion is that capitalism does not work and needs to be replaced. They don't realize that big gov't has a boot on the wheels.
I'll address some of this in a minute. for now, lets just remember the part i underlined here.
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yes, there has been prosperity for some segment of the population under virtually any economic system
amp244 said: That's the point. The economy must be run for everybody, not just one segment. Trying to help one by hurting another brings everyone down in the long run. You make the rules equitable for everyone. You either strive for equality of treatment, or equality of income, you can't have both. The only way I can see that is "fair" to everyone is to treat everyone the same. There will be winners and there will be losers; the reason you see so many losers is because of a defunct government, not because of supply-side economics. We have neither equality of treatment, nor equality of income.
that is a good answer. Rather than type a long rebuttal, i'll post this video if Barry Schwartz discussing more or less the same topic. I share this video all the time, so ignore it if you've already watched, but it's worth the 20 min if you never heard what he has to say before.
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yeah, nafta sucked a dick, and with more and more automation in the works, human labor is losing value quick. What will unfettered capitalism do to stop or slow this process?
amp244 said: Anyone advocating unfettered capitalism, bereft of government is a fool. That is not my contention. Terrible trade deals like NAFTA are another reason why people are under the illusion that capitalism is inherently bad for the "little guy". There is more to an automobile than just the engine. The engine needs an ECU, it needs a regulator. Capitalism is supposed to be "fettered".
As far as the 'evil' automation, capitalism will do nothing to stop it, and that's the beauty of capitalism. The economic landscape is constantly changing, just look at history. Capitalism allocates the resources and flow of human labor away from where they are no longer needed and into the nascent industries that have sprung up replacing them. Who knows what industries will be spawned in the coming years? Do you think anyone knew what an IT job was 60 years ago? Tech companies have spawned an entirely new generation of industries as well. 3D printing companies, Digital forensics companies (Hillary knows about them), software engineers, computer resource management systems for virtually every business imaginable. These jobs didn't exist UNTIL automation and technological advancements made the mass production of computers possible. The argument that technology will replace human labor has been run down 1000 times, only to later resurface and rear its unsubstantiated head. It will probably never die, and doubtlessly never be proven.
1) NAFTA happened in an era of "Big Government" regulations. The "ECU" was there. 2)I didn't say that automation is "evil", i said that it is driving down the value of human labor. Do i think we should be using candles for the sake of keeping the candlemakers in business? no, of course not. Nevertheless, it is an inevitable problem. There just aren't enough IT jobs for everyone. Even if you could create higher skilled jobs to replace all of the grocery store jobs and factory jobs etc., Not everyone can master the necessary skills, yet everyone needs a job to survive in this country. As advances in the fields of robotic, computers, and biotechnology proceed, human labor will devalue at a faster pace. its only a matter of time.
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My point is that Capitalism is a self-organizing, naturally occurring circumstance. It is hardly an –ism, such as socialism or communism, which describe political and economic ideologies that must be implemented and forced. Capitalism arises out of the natural course of human conduct. It is what happens when you leave people free to engage in whatever kind of economic transactions they agree to. It must be checked by gov’t, but gov’t should not undertake that which it need not.
who decides what is needed?
amp244 said: Nobody. Again, that's the beauty of capitalism. That's why its hardly an -ism. That's why I wrote the top portion of the very quote above. If the gov't didn't make it illegal for others to deliver the letter mail it would be undertaken by private organizations. Without Obamacare, Insurance companies would still provide services. Those unable to afford insurance would still be taken care of and the taxpayer would still foot the bill. The market can do better naturally and spontaneously, what these almighty legislators purport to be able to do arbitrarily. The government should be there to provide only what the free market will not provide on its own because there is no one person or group of people willing to bear the costs themselves on behalf of society. Governments should build roads, prisons, psych wards, parks, armies etc.
So many things... Ok, first, the U.S. postal service does an amazing job and ships letters and packages at a much more affordable price than any private shipping company. Second, forcing the uninsured into the E.R. costs much more than just giving them primary care, for several reasons. Third,remember way back at the top of this post when i said to remember the part i underlined? This is why. You can't argue on the one hand that you need the government to regulate the economy at large, and then say on the other hand that the government should only provide "what the free market will not...". You just got done saying that the government should regulate the market! That's not laissez-faire at all.
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amp244 said: The gov’t is the watchdog, to ensure everyone plays by the rules. After that, the economic outcomes that arise serve as the impetuses behind future investments.
Who should decide what the rules are? how should the rules be enforced?
amp244 said: A governing body should decide the rules, whether through democratic processes or those of a republic. The rules should be enforced as they have always been enforced, through law; the threat of force.
Here we go again. 1) Which is it? Government interferes with the market or not? 2)Again, you want governing bodies to decide the rules, but you also want it to decide to have less rules (in order to encourage a free market) and here's the kicker, you want this through the acts of democratic process or those of a republic (essentially the "free market" of the political realm). Where did you think we got the laws that we have now?
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The welfare state of the United States serves as proof that an elite, ruling class will always strive to obtain absolute influence over the people through economic and political means.
I couldn't agree more with the underlined. The economic elite do propagate class warfare through trickle-down nonsense to maintain influence.
amp244 said: Name one establishment talking head that pushes supply-side, capital investment based theory. One guy from the Austrian school that goes onto all of the major news networks and gets talking time. All of the Austrian guys like Ron Paul are deliberately censored and not given a voice.
Ah, yes, good old Ron "let'em die" Paul. (to be fair, it was his supporters in the audience that were cheering and yelling, not him) I won't post the debate vid; i'm sure you got the reference.
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amp244 said: All of these elites are Keynesians. They don't like capitalism because capitalism does more than just produce wealth. The most important aspect of capitalism, and why it is even an -ism in the first place, is because it is based on the individuals right to life, liberty, and property. Capitalism is based on freedom. It empowers EVERYBODY. Mass democide has never occurred in a capitalist country because economic freedom in and of itself serves as a check on tyranny. Germany, The Soviet Union, Mao's China, Congo, etc. They were all autocratic societies with centrally planned economies. The proof is in the history books.
Capitalism may empower everybody...on day one. After that it begins the process of gradually disadvantaging most people. It is a multi generational process of course . Every day, people are born. some are born into wealth, others, not as much, to varying degrees. Being born into money increases the odds of dying with money and therefore conferring this advantage to offspring. As wealth becomes more concentrated through this natural process, the process itself speeds up. (the more money you have, the easier it is to make more money yadda yadda yadda) Aside from speeding up, this hereditary money advantage causes increased class stratification, and decreased class mobility. Maybe this could be mitigated by a 100% estate tax across all income levels. That sounds like something governing body could do through democratic processes as a "fetter' on capitalism. (to be clear, i don't advocate a 100% estate tax)
Thats all for now. Much of this has been covered ad nauseum in other threads, I can dig up sources etc. later when you ask for them, but i'm tired now. It took forever just to format this post, i can see why you don't like line by line rebuttals for extended discussion.
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: ballsalsa] 3
#23698463 - 10/01/16 09:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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ballsalsa said: Capitalism may empower everybody...on day one. After that it begins the process of gradually disadvantaging most people. It is a multi generational process of course . Every day, people are born. some are born into wealth, others, not as much, to varying degrees. Being born into money increases the odds of dying with money and therefore conferring this advantage to offspring. As wealth becomes more concentrated through this natural process, the process itself speeds up. (the more money you have, the easier it is to make more money yadda yadda yadda) Aside from speeding up, this hereditary money advantage causes increased class stratification, and decreased class mobility. Maybe this could be mitigated by a 100% estate tax across all income levels. That sounds like something governing body could do through democratic processes as a "fetter' on capitalism. (to be clear, i don't advocate a 100% estate tax)
Thats all for now. Much of this has been covered ad nauseum in other threads, I can dig up sources etc. later when you ask for them, but i'm tired now. It took forever just to format this post, i can see why you don't like line by line rebuttals for extended discussion.
You hit the nail on the head, ballz. This is simple fucking shit. Anyone who doesn't understand this is a fucking retard. Do you understand it, Amp? I highly doubt that you do.
Capitalism disempowers the many, while affording excessive power to an undeserving few, in the long run.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (10/01/16 09:23 PM)
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Great Scott
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#23698480 - 10/01/16 09:30 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said: Communism disempowers the many, while affording excessive power to an undeserving few, in the long run.
Fixed
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Great Scott] 2
#23698500 - 10/01/16 09:39 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, Communism in practice does do that. He wasn't wrong, though. Capitalism does too.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Great Scott] 2
#23698567 - 10/01/16 10:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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PeyoteZen said:
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Bigbadwooof said: Communism disempowers the many, while affording excessive power to an undeserving few, in the long run.
Fixed
Don't 'Fix' my comments. You don't possess a modicum of the intellectual capacity required to do so. The traditional understanding of 'Communism' does the same, though, yes.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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amp244
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#23698677 - 10/01/16 11:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Capitalism needs government. Austrian economics does not call for Anarchy. I think you are a bit confused.
And BBW, under your logic, we should switch to socialism for one year, and then switch back to capitalism, because capitalism works good at first, right? Capitalism wasn't matured enough for all the rich businessmen, corporations, and industries that were in business in 1780 to be able to take advantage of all the citizens, right? It has nothing to do with the fact that our presidents and representatives actually gave a fuck about the public and the economic health of the country back then? Its all because capitalism was just so young, and it needed time to rear its ugly head.
Capitalism is the only system that is consistent with freedom. Period. There has never been democide under capitalism. Do you understand that BigBad? I don't think you do. If your argument is that capitalism always goes down in the long run, we have a 240 year streak going right now. 64% of homes are still owned by their occupiers. Apparently things haven't all collapsed yet, despite your best efforts. 240 years, and these homes weren't distributed through taxation and welfare. They were the result of the profit incentive. Show me another system that has lasted anywhere near as long without horrible injustice? Are you advocating a Monarchy? Socialism and Communism die young. A socialist state has never lasted longer than 74-years(1), the Soviet Union which saw Stalin starve and gun down millions of his own people! The current Chinese govt is knocking on the door with 67 years. Their people are so broke they kill/give away their baby girls because statistically boys will make more money and the people are only allowed one child. The gov't before them was commi too, remember Mao, he killed more of his own people than Stalin and Hitler combined!
None of you seem to understand that capitalism, when nobody is abusing the system, makes the small man powerful. If such is not the case now IT IS NOT CAPITALISM'S FAULT it is the fault of CRIMINALS that need to be prosecuted. Refer to the analogy of the car. It aint the motor homies. Capitalism is a system of freedom, it aint biased towards any one person, or designed/destined to favor one over the other in the long run. When people take advantage of the system the gov't is supposed to be there. That's why we have gov't. Gov't is one of the most important institutions to insuring individual freedom and is critical for capitalism to operate correctly.
(1)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
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ballsalsa
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: amp244] 2
#23698687 - 10/01/16 11:10 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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amp244 said: None of you seem to understand that capitalism, when nobody is abusing the system, makes the small man powerful.
NOTE:this quote has been edited down to the relevant portion
Wrong. Everybody understands that. What you don't seem to get is that we don't live in a world of theory where you can just assume that nobody will game the system. Here in reality-land, there are dickheads on every street corner, and they will gladly scam the fuck out of anyone for an extra nickel if they think they can get away with it. The kind of capitalism that you are imagining, "capitalism, when nobody is abusing the system", doesn't and won't exist.
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ballsalsa
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: amp244] 3
#23698692 - 10/01/16 11:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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amp244 said: Capitalism wasn't matured enough for all the rich businessmen, corporations, and industries that were in business in 1780 to be able to take advantage of all the citizens, right? It has nothing to do with the fact that our presidents and representatives actually gave a fuck about the public and the economic health of the country back then? Its all because capitalism was just so young, and it needed time to rear its ugly head.
Holy shit! i didn't see this until i re-read it! Now, not that i buy the premise of the benevolent founding fathers etc., but let's go with that since you proposed it. Think about your own argument here...Beginning of America = politicians who care about the public. Modern America = politicians who care about special interests. now here's the twist: All it took was time for Capitalism to work its magic!
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Great Scott] 1
#23698713 - 10/01/16 11:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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PeyoteZen said:
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Bigbadwooof said: Communism disempowers the many, while affording excessive power to an undeserving few, in the long run.
Fixed
Literal definition of capitalism right there.
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: elax420]
#23698726 - 10/01/16 11:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Watch the movie "shock doctrine" on YouTube or pirate it.
Pretty interesting stuff. It's all about Friedman and the Chicago boys and how they fucked up the whole world with their profit above everything mentality.
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amp244
Sporocarp Stretching


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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
#23698728 - 10/01/16 11:30 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well here in the land of empirical evidence we can visit the United States of America, which is a predominantly capitalist economy at present, and was much more so in its history.
Fun Fact: The United States of America is the oldest continuous single country (not empire), with the same name, same government, run by the same continuous constitution, ever. Every other country in recorded history has gone through a drastic change in the structure of gov't at some point before 240 years. Capitalism my friends. The U.S. Constitution. Life liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. I am so grateful for the men who spilled their blood to break away from Great Britain and form this great nation. It is truly the most remarkable form of government ever conceived.
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: amp244] 3
#23698751 - 10/01/16 11:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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amp244 said: Well here in the land of empirical evidence we can visit the United States of America, which is a predominantly capitalist economy at present, and was much more so in its history.
Fun Fact: The United States of America is the oldest continuous single country (not empire), with the same name, same government, run by the same continuous constitution, ever. Every other country in recorded history has gone through a drastic change in the structure of gov't at some point before 240 years. Capitalism my friends. The U.S. Constitution. Life liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. I am so grateful for the men who spilled their blood to break away from Great Britain and form this great nation. It is truly the most remarkable form of government ever conceived.
That's the stupidest fucking "fact" I've ever heard. The only thing stupider thing is that you attribute the supposed success of a country to an unchanged economic and political model implying that there has never been turbulence or instability. Civil war? Or are you from one of the states that acts like that didn't happen? the ignorance in this post is next level.
The United States became an empire with the Monroe doctrine. But they had been conquering and assimilating *cough* commiting genocide *cough* against peoples of different cultures since it was a colony. If we aren't an empire please explain Puerto Rico and Guam to me?
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amp244
Sporocarp Stretching


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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
#23698784 - 10/01/16 11:48 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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ballsalsa said:
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amp244 said: Capitalism wasn't matured enough for all the rich businessmen, corporations, and industries that were in business in 1780 to be able to take advantage of all the citizens, right? It has nothing to do with the fact that our presidents and representatives actually gave a fuck about the public and the economic health of the country back then? Its all because capitalism was just so young, and it needed time to rear its ugly head.
Holy shit! i didn't see this until i re-read it! Now, not that i buy the premise of the benevolent founding fathers etc., but let's go with that since you proposed it. Think about your own argument here...Beginning of America = politicians who care about the public. Modern America = politicians who care about special interests. now here's the twist: All it took was time for Capitalism to work its magic! 
Lol, you must not have read the rest of my post. Capitalism doesn't have any magic to be worked haha. It isn't biased. Show me a country that has lasted longer under a different system of government. Same constitution. Same government structure. Show me. Whether you want to admit it or not, the proof is in the history books.
All I hear is people crying about how much capitalism keeps them down and I have to shake my head. I am a felon and I am about to open up my own business next year. I was DEAD BROKE when I got out of jail roughly 2 years ago. Capitalism didn't give a fuck about my past. Capitalism doesn't give a fuck about my future. I'm not saying everything is peachy, but the way you guys talk, you'd think everyone is begging on the street. The problem with the system is the criminal element in the government who have sold out. Why you people bash economic freedom, willing exchange, and coordination through cooperation is beyond me. If capitalism is destined to lead to disaster why has the U.S. been so successful?
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
Edited by amp244 (10/02/16 12:33 AM)
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amp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: elax420]
#23698809 - 10/01/16 11:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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elax420 said:
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amp244 said: Well here in the land of empirical evidence we can visit the United States of America, which is a predominantly capitalist economy at present, and was much more so in its history.
Fun Fact: The United States of America is the oldest continuous single country (not empire), with the same name, same government, run by the same continuous constitution, ever. Every other country in recorded history has gone through a drastic change in the structure of gov't at some point before 240 years. Capitalism my friends. The U.S. Constitution. Life liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. I am so grateful for the men who spilled their blood to break away from Great Britain and form this great nation. It is truly the most remarkable form of government ever conceived.
That's the stupidest fucking "fact" I've ever heard. The only thing stupider thing is that you attribute the supposed success of a country to an unchanged economic and political model implying that there has never been turbulence or instability. Civil war? Or are you from one of the states that acts like that didn't happen? the ignorance in this post is next level.
The United States became an empire with the Monroe doctrine. But they had been conquering and assimilating *cough* commiting genocide *cough* against peoples of different cultures since it was a colony. If we aren't an empire please explain Puerto Rico and Guam to me?
Hold the fuck on for just one fucking second. Attributing the longstanding success of a country to an unchanged economic and political model is ignorant? How so?
You just put all types of words in people's mouths don't you? I am "implying" there was no turbulence? How so?
You're the one being ignorant. My point is that if capitalism is so bad, why is "The United States of America is the oldest continuous single country (not empire), with the same name, same government, run by the same continuous constitution, ever."
If capitalism is destined to fail, why is the above true?
Peurto Rico is unincorporated first off. And if you want to make the case that the U.S. is an empire, I can buy that. There have certainly been empires with reigns of much more significant durations, but they saw nowhere near the increase in the quality of life of their people that the U.S. has seen in its reign. But you gonna have to explain how Monroe doctrine makes us an empire.
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
Edited by amp244 (10/02/16 12:05 AM)
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,813
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: amp244]
#23698824 - 10/02/16 12:02 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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probably helps that we built in a system by which to amend the constitution. less point in radical changes in political systems when you can gradually change them through democratic processes, don't you agree? What does the soundness of the United States Constitution have to do with the price of tea in China?
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: amp244] 3
#23698837 - 10/02/16 12:07 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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You said a 250 old year old country is the greatest form of government ever established. I don't need to put any words into your mouth to make you look foolish, you've already done that.
2. It's not. England was captured by the Normans in 1066.
2016-1776> 2016-1066 lol, Nice math. Oh and what about China? 2000 year rule. Egypt was really fucking long too.
There are royal families that lasted longer than the USA has been a thing. The distinction between empire and nation is moot, and ultimately meaningless.
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