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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Sky Walker]
    #23696337 - 10/01/16 05:37 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I was addressing the assertion that "we can lower the debt by raising taxes" which I easily proved wrong

Please, learn to read, learn to follow threads before acting like a partisan hack

Hillary 2016, right?

Predictable...


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23696468 - 10/01/16 07:40 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

LOL stop saying "predictable". you can't predict the fly swatter swatting your own ass.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #23696900 - 10/01/16 11:18 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

skywalker444 said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Obviously taxes need to be raised on the wealthy considering our record deficits, debt, and lowest top tax rates in history.



clinton raised taxes, debt went up, Obama raised taxes, debt doubled, sorry Charlie, not buying it



:facepalm3:
This dude needs a lesson in economics.



I was addressing the assertion that "we can lower the debt by raising taxes" which I easily proved wrong



No, you didn't prove that wrong.  That's a very simple and basic mathematical truth.  What you showed is that Obama didn't lower the deficit, which is because he used stimulus (deficit) spending to help get us out of the Great Recession.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23697112 - 10/01/16 12:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Lol, and what was clintons excuse for increasing debt?


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23697138 - 10/01/16 12:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Falcon is ridiculous. In another thread he tried to tell me that Hillary Clinton's fully-documented and well-established concussion back in 2012 and her subsequent blood clots were just a conspiracy theory.

:facepalm:


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Great Scott]
    #23697153 - 10/01/16 12:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It's amazing how they can twist shit to fit their narrative


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23697206 - 10/01/16 01:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

He just made up his mind that he was going to "debunk" me and then proceeded to lie his ass off and then claim victory.

When I hit him back with the indisputable truth, he took 1 quasi-weak claim out of the 2 dozen or so solid claims I had made and then just focused on that instead, as if my entire argument revolved around that 1 thing.

Total intellectual dishonesty.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Great Scott]
    #23697303 - 10/01/16 01:54 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, providing facts is narrative; less than two regular muppets chatting in collusion against those whom are remaining silent lest they have facts to present.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #23697335 - 10/01/16 02:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It was a Hillary health thread. I brought up Hillary's personalized handicap van as proof that Hillary has physical health issues. And then I followed up by saying she has the van + an ambulance in her motorcade.

Falcon then said it's completely normal for these types of motorcades to have an ambulance and that therefore I had not provided any proof that Hillary has health issues, completely ignoring the part about the van.

And then a couple days later Hillary crumpled and collapsed and had to be hoisted into the van by her arm pits. Which as we know, was captured on cellphone video by a bystander.

You've got to be a colossal idiot and/or a shill to not be able to concede by now that Hillary has serious health issues.


--------------------
:thumbup: :thumbdown:


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OfflineCrumist
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: amp244] * 1
    #23697359 - 10/01/16 02:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

That was a nice post on the last page and I agree with a lot of it. However, my response to some
of the points is simply "co-relation does not imply causation."

Quote:

My point is that before we had big government we had economic prosperity. People who say, ‘oh it was only good for the elite! It was so terrible for everyone else!’ should note that the population grew in North America by over 600% in the 1800’s(3). The U.S. on its own saw a far more drastic explosion of population(4). According to the science of economics, the population grows along with the demand for labor in advanced economies with the division of labor. Immigrants were coming in, but the main contributor was an increase in birth rates(4). When people can afford it, they have children; when they can’t, they don’t. Before the institution of the welfare state, poor people raised less children, because they were incapable of financially supporting them. Children were a burden and made the lives of the poor unduly hard. The population grew in relation to production and shared economic prosperity. Child mortality rates were very high among the poor so the population explosion shows economic prosperity on all levels.



Africa has a pretty fast population growth rate, they must be real rich, right? Before the "welfare state"
family sizes in the United States were much larger than today. Average # of children in 1800 was 7.0, in 1900: 3.5, [1]
in 2000: 0.9 [2]. Children weren't financial burdens in 1800
but necessary sources of labor.

My real bone is with
Quote:

My point is that before we had big government we had economic prosperity.



Our highest point of prosperity is undoubtedly somewhere in the 20th century, under or
just following the rule of our large and near Fascist wartime gov't.

Pick a year "before big government, where we had economic prosperity" and I can name a
list of other factors that are co-related to the prosperity and also may have a stronger case for
causation.

[1] http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4847a1.htm
[2] http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01-8.pdf


--------------------
'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion
Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Crumist]
    #23697485 - 10/01/16 03:09 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

You've got to be a colossal idiot and/or a shill to not be able to concede by now that Hillary has serious health issues.




Welcome to Hillary 2016


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: hostileuniverse] * 2
    #23697514 - 10/01/16 03:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Falcon is ridiculous. In another thread he tried to tell me that Hillary Clinton's fully-documented and well-established concussion back in 2012 and her subsequent blood clots were just a conspiracy theory.

:facepalm:



It's amazing how they can twist shit to fit their narrative



He just made up his mind that he was going to "debunk" me and then proceeded to lie his ass off and then claim victory.




Let's see what I said about that:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Hillary's blood clots are not a conspiracy theory. It is documented fact, once again. And she was put on medication (blood thinners) for the blood clots in her brain.



I never claimed her concussion and blood clots didn't happen; those are well known facts.  I said "that proves nothing about her current health"



You two are just as bad as Amp.  "Waaaa, Fal is kicking our asses, let's tell some lies about him".
Oh really, can you please back up your claims with evidence?

:cryaboutit:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23697543 - 10/01/16 03:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
...Hillary fell down and bonked her head and got a concussion and was hospitalized for months.
...Hillary is on blood clot medication.
...Hillary hasn't had a press conference in almost a year.



Causes? Check
Medications? Check
Hillary laying low because of medical issues or because of her campaign strategy to avoid having to answer questions? Both



More conspiracy theory.




You called it a conspiracy theory. So just to reiterate...
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Falcon is ridiculous. In another thread he tried to tell me that Hillary Clinton's fully-documented and well-established concussion back in 2012 and her subsequent blood clots were just a conspiracy theory.

:facepalm:





--------------------
:thumbup: :thumbdown:


Edited by Great Scott (10/01/16 03:34 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Great Scott] * 2
    #23697548 - 10/01/16 03:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
I brought up Hillary's personalized handicap van as proof that Hillary has physical health issues. And then I followed up by saying she has the van + an ambulance in her motorcade.

Falcon then said it's completely normal for these types of motorcades to have an ambulance and that therefore I had not provided any proof that Hillary has health issues, completely ignoring the part about the van.



Oh really?  Let's see what I said about that:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Show me all the pictures of Presidential motorcades with medical wheelchair access vans...you know.. since those are so commonly included in a standard (high ranking official's) motorcade. :braindamage:



How about a video of an ambulance riding behind Trump's motorcade?






Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
And then a couple days later Hillary crumpled and collapsed and had to be hoisted into the van by her arm pits. Which as we know, was captured on cellphone video by a bystander.

You've got to be a colossal idiot and/or a shill to not be able to concede by now that Hillary has serious health issues.



Yes, and it was pointed out to you that she had pneumonia.  :facepalm:

The intellectual dishonesty is unreal.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Great Scott] * 1
    #23697579 - 10/01/16 03:41 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
...Hillary fell down and bonked her head and got a concussion and was hospitalized for months.
...Hillary is on blood clot medication.
...Hillary hasn't had a press conference in almost a year.



Causes? Check
Medications? Check
Hillary laying low because of medical issues or because of her campaign strategy to avoid having to answer questions? Both



More conspiracy theory.




You called it a conspiracy theory. So just to reiterate...
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Falcon is ridiculous. In another thread he tried to tell me that Hillary Clinton's fully-documented and well-established concussion back in 2012 and her subsequent blood clots were just a conspiracy theory.

:facepalm:







As you can see above, my response was to your claim that "Hillary laying low because of medical issues or because of her campaign strategy to avoid having to answer questions?"

Answer:  Neither - you're floating a conspiracy theory.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23697586 - 10/01/16 03:44 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

medical wheelchair access van ≠ ambulance
Once again, you prove how distorted your counterarguments are.

And Hillary had Pneumonia like Bill Clinton had a dry dick after that one time with Monica Lewinsky.

It's incredible that you actually still believe these liars and take their word at face value after all these years. Pneumonia may very well be one of the illnesses that Hillary has, just as it is with a lot of senior citizens who are rapidly approaching death's door.


--------------------
:thumbup: :thumbdown:


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Invisibleamp244
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Crumist]
    #23697702 - 10/01/16 04:38 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

+ 5 for you crumist. That's how you argue! Take note Falcon.
Quote:

Crumist said:
That was a nice post on the last page and I agree with a lot of it. However, my response to some
of the points is simply "co-relation does not imply causation."



It is very true that there are multiple factors in the treatment of every microeconomic aspect. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. For example, before the advent of modern medicine and the concomitant lowering of infant mortality, the co-relation of population growth to the growth in the demand for labor was much stronger. Adam Smith published "An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations" in 1776. In it he states that among the poor the infant mortality rates were incredibly high. 1 in 20 survived to reach adulthood. Infant mortality amongst the wealthy was much lower, because they were much more adept at taking care of their children.

Quote:

Quote:

My point is that before we had big government we had economic prosperity. People who say, ‘oh it was only good for the elite! It was so terrible for everyone else!’ should note that the population grew in North America by over 600% in the 1800’s(3). The U.S. on its own saw a far more drastic explosion of population(4). According to the science of economics, the population grows along with the demand for labor in advanced economies with the division of labor. Immigrants were coming in, but the main contributor was an increase in birth rates(4). When people can afford it, they have children; when they can’t, they don’t. Before the institution of the welfare state, poor people raised less children, because they were incapable of financially supporting them. Children were a burden and made the lives of the poor unduly hard. The population grew in relation to production and shared economic prosperity. Child mortality rates were very high among the poor so the population explosion shows economic prosperity on all levels.



Africa has a pretty fast population growth rate, they must be real rich, right? Before the "welfare state"
family sizes in the United States were much larger than today. Average # of children in 1800 was 7.0, in 1900: 3.5, [1]
in 2000: 0.9 [2]. Children weren't financial burdens in 1800
but necessary sources of labor.



I think you made my point for me here when you said children weren't burdens in 1800, but sources of labor. If such was the case than clearly times were economically prosperous if each additional set of hands created ADDITIONAL wealth. That was my argument. The total purchasing power and demand of an economy doesn’t increase by simply pumping additional children into it, the fact that they were able to find work and create wealth for themselves show that the economic landscape was growing and favorable to the working class. The purchasing power was there and it wasn’t because of big gov’t redistributing the wealth.

And I was completely unaware that the population growth in the U.S. is so low currently. That really substantiates my point about the horrible economic conditions. It’s also to note that poor people in the U.S. are much more likely to have children(1), which is contradictory to economic theory, but consistent with the ‘welfare state’ population theory I’ve advanced. In fact a family making under $10,000/year is nearly twice as likely to have a child during any given year, as a family making over $75,000. If you don’t think welfare and subsidized housing have contributed to this economic anomaly than you are certainly free to do so. People are having children, and they can’t afford them, if it weren’t for the welfare state, they’d die or beg.

Quote:

My real bone is with
Quote:

My point is that before we had big government we had economic prosperity.



Our highest point of prosperity is undoubtedly somewhere in the 20th century, under or
just following the rule of our large and near Fascist wartime gov't.

Pick a year "before big government, where we had economic prosperity" and I can name a
list of other factors that are co-related to the prosperity and also may have a stronger case for
causation.



Certainly just because you can argue, and perhaps prove, causation other than limited government for things like the industrial revolution, doesn’t mean that limited gov’t didn’t give rise to those causations. The profit incentive is what drives ingenuity and innovation. If there is no reward on the other end, no one will accept the risks. If we aren’t allowing the market to tell us what is in demand, we end up producing what is not in demand. 

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/241530/birth-rate-by-family-income-in-the-us/


--------------------
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Edited by amp244 (10/01/16 04:52 PM)


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Offlineqman
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23697766 - 10/01/16 05:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

skywalker444 said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Obviously taxes need to be raised on the wealthy considering our record deficits, debt, and lowest top tax rates in history.



clinton raised taxes, debt went up, Obama raised taxes, debt doubled, sorry Charlie, not buying it



:facepalm3:
This dude needs a lesson in economics.



I was addressing the assertion that "we can lower the debt by raising taxes" which I easily proved wrong



No, you didn't prove that wrong.  That's a very simple and basic mathematical truth.  What you showed is that Obama didn't lower the deficit, which is because he used stimulus (deficit) spending to help get us out of the Great Recession.




"used stimulus spending"

Which was what?


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OfflineWebster10
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23697963 - 10/01/16 06:22 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Causes? Check
Medications? Check
Hillary laying low because of medical issues or because of her campaign strategy to avoid having to answer questions? Both



More conspiracy theory.




You called it a conspiracy theory. So just to reiterate...
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Falcon is ridiculous. In another thread he tried to tell me that Hillary Clinton's fully-documented and well-established concussion back in 2012 and her subsequent blood clots were just a conspiracy theory.

:facepalm:







As you can see above, my response was to your claim that "Hillary laying low because of medical issues or because of her campaign strategy to avoid having to answer questions?"

Answer:  Neither - you're floating a conspiracy theory.



Actually, she's laying low for both reasons. Anyone with an ounce of common sense would know that.


--------------------
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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Official Hillary vs Trump Debate Thread. [Re: Webster10] * 2
    #23698043 - 10/01/16 06:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

When lawyers say stupid shit like that when trying to defend their argument in court, smarter lawyers object. And judges sustain.


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