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OfflineKenetic
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Need Electrical Help? * 2
    #23677604 - 09/25/16 06:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

If you do, feel free to post your problem and I'll do the best I can to help.

I'm an experienced journey-man commercial electrician and can easily help with residential problems.


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Edited by Kenetic (09/25/16 06:42 PM)


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OfflineCajun love
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: Kenetic]
    #23752325 - 10/19/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Just bumping this. I am also a journeyman wireman and would be happy to help.Hey kenetic are you Union? Forgive me if that's too personal.


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: Cajun love]
    #23752500 - 10/19/16 04:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

No I'm in IEC.  It's similar to union though.  I don't think too many people visit this forum so it might be a while before anyone needs advice


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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: Kenetic]
    #23753702 - 10/20/16 12:14 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

thats a pretty bitchen offer... thanks fellas.


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Invisibleidiotek
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: rackem]
    #23760042 - 10/22/16 05:45 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

There are a few of us around.  I'm always happy to lend a hand whenever possible.  My specialty is PV system interconnections.  :thumbup:


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: idiotek]
    #23761778 - 10/22/16 06:19 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Nice.  I do commercial lighting controls mainly.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: Kenetic]
    #23765827 - 10/24/16 01:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I had a question about wiring a 240 volt plug for a hot tub.

So, do u have to wire it both parallel and in series in order to get the right power output?

Cause hot tubs require about 40 amps AND 240 volts, while most circuit breakers are 120 volts and have 20 amps.

Confused on the wiring at the circuit breaker box :confused:


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Invisibleidiotek
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #23765894 - 10/24/16 03:26 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Parallel only.  You need a double pole breaker and special receptacle, most likely a 6 or 8 AWG 3wire cable w/ground, with red and black as your L1, L2, and white as your Neutral, and bare ground as your equipment ground.  The Red/Black would go on each terminal of the breaker/receptacle and, depending on whether or not your load center is the common point of bonding equipment grounds and neutrals, you can probably land both the neutral and ground on the neutral/ground bar in there.  You'll see what previous people have done - not always right but it usually works.  I prefer new construction services to be built using an enclosure for the meter base that has a built-in disconnect and extra spaces so you actually have to split grounds and neutrals in the panel the way it should be done..

Sounds like you might want to get some help with this one.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: idiotek]
    #23765946 - 10/24/16 04:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

alright thanks.

Never knew u need a 8 guage. I figured it was two wires going to the one 240 volt outlet, using the typical ROMEX 12 gauge yellow wire. Now i know, need just one thick ass 8 guage wire. Thanks man.


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #23766054 - 10/24/16 06:47 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Make sure you use 2 pole breaker with the correct ampacity, you don't want to take any chances when it comes to water.  That way if there is a problem with one circuit it will trip both circuits at the same time.  Keeping the ground and neutral separated until the panel is a good safety measure as well. 
Don't ever take chances just to get something to work, it's far too easy work with electricity in a safe manner.


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Todo Cambia
   

               
                                                :cookiemonster::elmo:



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InvisibleLophosaurus
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #23782222 - 10/29/16 09:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
I had a question about wiring a 240 volt plug for a hot tub.

So, do u have to wire it both parallel and in series in order to get the right power output?

Cause hot tubs require about 40 amps AND 240 volts, while most circuit breakers are 120 volts and have 20 amps.

Confused on the wiring at the circuit breaker box :confused:





You will need a double pole 40 amp breaker and you will need 8 gauge wire. Probably 8/3 because I'm sure it will have a neutral. Does it come with a cord and is there a gfci built into the cord? If not than you will want to get a gfi breaker. You also need a disconnect within sight, but more than 5 feet away.

I'm not sure on this, but I think anything metal within 5' of the tub will have to be bonded with a solid 8 gauge wire.


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Offlinefungus_tao
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: Kenetic]
    #23928422 - 12/15/16 05:59 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Great thread.

So, last night I finally made time to pour some dishes.
When I unplugged my all american 75x the plug and cord were really hot to the touch.
This is very concerning to me.
What should I begin to do to verify that everything is safe to run??
Thanks.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: fungus_tao]
    #23928787 - 12/15/16 10:03 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fungus_tao said:
Great thread.

So, last night I finally made time to pour some dishes.
When I unplugged my all american 75x the plug and cord were really hot to the touch.
This is very concerning to me.
What should I begin to do to verify that everything is safe to run??
Thanks.




That unit pulls nearly 14 amps.  You should have it on its own circuit which better have a proper 15 amp breaker just to be sure. Looking at the picture of the cord it doesn't look that beefy.  Plug it into a GFI if you want perhaps some added safety.  Cords do get hot, but really hot is when they catch fire like I had one do a while back.  Definitely plug it directly into your plug that is hopefully grounded.  Do not use any added extension cord.


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Offlinefungus_tao
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23929390 - 12/15/16 01:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

OK, so I've got some more information now.
I also talked to a general contractor and got some useful advice.
So basically, the 75x draws 13.75 amps, and has a 1650 watt heating element.
The cord on the appliance is 14/3.
The breaker I had it plugged into the other night is a 15 amp breaker.
I understand that this pretty much pushes that breaker right to it's upper limit.
The contractor friend I talked to suggested I use it in the kitchen on a 20 amp breaker.
So, next time I use it I will try that and see if it still over heats.
I guess if I want to run this in the same room as my flow hood I'm going to have a dedicated outlet put in for it.
I don't understand how people run 2-4 of these sometimes in their operations without doing some type of dedicated wiring.


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: fungus_tao]
    #23929618 - 12/15/16 02:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I dont see why it would help if you use a 20 amp breaker, the device is still going to use the same amount of power.  Maybe that particular model isn't meant to operate for hours?
I would personally change the s.o. cord to 12 or even 10 guage, that'll lower the resistance so the cord won't get hot anymore, without affecting how it operates.

Your first response is important too


Edited by Kenetic (12/19/16 07:11 AM)


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: fungus_tao]
    #23929761 - 12/15/16 03:18 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fungus_tao said:
OK, so I've got some more information now.
I also talked to a general contractor and got some useful advice.
So basically, the 75x draws 13.75 amps, and has a 1650 watt heating element.
The cord on the appliance is 14/3.
The breaker I had it plugged into the other night is a 15 amp breaker.
I understand that this pretty much pushes that breaker right to it's upper limit.
The contractor friend I talked to suggested I use it in the kitchen on a 20 amp breaker.
So, next time I use it I will try that and see if it still over heats.
I guess if I want to run this in the same room as my flow hood I'm going to have a dedicated outlet put in for it.
I don't understand how people run 2-4 of these sometimes in their operations without doing some type of dedicated wiring.




OK you want it on a 15 amp breaker with nothing else on that circuit.  Not your flow hood, nothing.  It's not the outlet that matters, it's the size of the wire going to your panel you need to be worried about. You could have five outlets that all tie into one common wire and plugging stuff separately will overload your breaker for sure.  You don't want to overload that wire by plugging more into a 20 amp breaker, and you sure don't want to "upgrade" to a 20 amp breaker.  That's what circuit breakers are for, to pop when you overload. 

The reason you pull 13.75 amps is because it's on 120 volt.  If you were at 240 volt you would pull 1/2 the amps or a little under 7.  This is why in grow rooms normally you want to wire up to 240 volt before you burn your house down for reals, like you are moving towards with gang plugs on one circuit.  The answer is that "they" do dedicated circuits that match the amperage and the voltage and get the appropriate sized wire from point a to point b.  240 volt can use smaller wire vs. 120 volt but still needs to be properly sized.  You can run 60 amp breaker if you have a big enough wire but don't try that at 120 volt it'll be monstrous.  Hence why ranges dryers hw heaters all run on 240 volt.  You sterilizer is a pretty big load and probably should be run on the 240.  OK sorry to ramble.


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Edited by LunarEclipse (12/15/16 03:22 PM)


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Offlinefungus_tao
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23929832 - 12/15/16 03:39 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Ok, so I can now confirm that the breaker that it was plugged into when the cord was over heating, that breaker controls 9 receptacle outlets and 2 overhead lights.
So, actually my iMac was on the same breaker, as well as the two overhead lights, and a t5 light for another project all on the same breaker.

The contractor I spoke to earlier today said it would be safer to run it from the kitchen island because it has 12 gauge wiring and can handle more amps.

Quote:

like you are moving towards with gang plugs on one circuit.



I don't quite understand what you mean.
I'm also not sure how to proceed with using this appliance or if it can even be done safely at all. :facepalm:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: fungus_tao]
    #23930100 - 12/15/16 04:55 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fungus_tao said:
Ok, so I can now confirm that the breaker that it was plugged into when the cord was over heating, that breaker controls 9 receptacle outlets and 2 overhead lights.
So, actually my iMac was on the same breaker, as well as the two overhead lights, and a t5 light for another project all on the same breaker.

The contractor I spoke to earlier today said it would be safer to run it from the kitchen island because it has 12 gauge wiring and can handle more amps.

Quote:

like you are moving towards with gang plugs on one circuit.



I don't quite understand what you mean.
I'm also not sure how to proceed with using this appliance or if it can even be done safely at all. :facepalm:




Well what I meant was what was going on with all those plugs and the overhead lights on the same breaker.  It sounds like the kitchen circuit would be a lot safer, I'm assuming not much is on the same circuit? By circuit I don't mean the plug, I mean all the outlets.  For instance, you wouldn't want to run a microwave at the same time they pull big amps too.  12 gauge should be good for your 13.75 amp load from what memory serves and having the 20 amp breaker shouldn't be an issue either with 12 gauge.  Depends a little on how far it goes but should be OK.  Your cord may still get hot but as long as it doesn't ignite you should be good to go.  There's hot, and then there's crazy overload hot.  My vacuum cleaner cord gets pretty hot, but that's just how it goes.  Also, those outlets are rated for 15 amps so definitely don't plug anything into the same outlet.  Anyway, if you do pop a breaker you just flip it back after the load drops, but 20 amp minus 13.75 only gives you 6.25 amps maybe you can run a light or two type thing.


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Edited by LunarEclipse (12/15/16 05:27 PM)


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Offlinefungus_tao
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23930267 - 12/15/16 05:39 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

OK, well now it's at least starting to sound like I have a viable option.
I'll check the breaker for the kitchen island again tomorrow and see what else is on it.
Then I would just have to be careful not to run any other appliances on that same breaker.
That shouldn't be a problem for now.
Thanks for the clarification.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: fungus_tao]
    #23930374 - 12/15/16 06:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fungus_tao said:
OK, well now it's at least starting to sound like I have a viable option.
I'll check the breaker for the kitchen island again tomorrow and see what else is on it.
Then I would just have to be careful not to run any other appliances on that same breaker.
That shouldn't be a problem for now.
Thanks for the clarification.




You're welcome and hope it works out for you.


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OfflineCajun love
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23939658 - 12/19/16 02:28 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Just don't switch to a 20 amp breaker and try to at least use 12 gauge wire. Gfi's and afci's don't hurt either for anything using a sizeable amperage.


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Offlineklhouse
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: Cajun love]
    #23940737 - 12/19/16 04:14 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I just posted fridge wiring question in DIY. Help?


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OfflineCajun love
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: klhouse]
    #23942568 - 12/20/16 07:34 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

What's the question?


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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: Cajun love]
    #23949896 - 12/22/16 07:06 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

My uncle is rebuilding my flow hood for me. The blower is a bit too much for the filter. Historically Ive just blocked off the intake to achieve the correct flow. This time I would like to add a speed control and an on/off switch.

The switch seems simple enough, but I hear that a dimmer switch/Rheostat is the wrong way to control the speed. Can you recommend a solution?


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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: Kenetic]
    #23956149 - 12/25/16 10:36 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

kenetic said:
I dont see why it would help if you use a 20 amp breaker, the device is still going to use the same amount of power.  Maybe that particular model isn't meant to operate for hours?
I would personally change the s.o. cord to 12 or even 10 guage, that'll lower the resistance so the cord won't get hot anymore, without affecting how it operates.

Your first response is important too



:whathesaid:
Finally, a thread I can help with........:jah:

kenetic pretty much nailed it, you could hypothetically cut the plug end off and wire it direct to a 100 A breaker if you want. It will still get just as hot.

Only other thing is your receptacle box could have a loose wire inside or the receptacle(socket) may be a bit worn out resulting in the plug being a bit loose in the receptacle, causing some arcing. 
Most of the heat caused from this will be at the receptacle and the PC plug end but the heat would dissipate further up the cord, away from the receptacle.


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Invisiblewolfedawwg
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #23956634 - 12/25/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wildernessjunkie said:
My uncle is rebuilding my flow hood for me. The blower is a bit too much for the filter. Historically Ive just blocked off the intake to achieve the correct flow. This time I would like to add a speed control and an on/off switch.

The switch seems simple enough, but I hear that a dimmer switch/Rheostat is the wrong way to control the speed. Can you recommend a solution?




First off, I have zero experience with flow hoods, but lots with motors!!
Dimmer switches are not meant for induction motors, they only limit the voltage.
Induction motor speed is controlled using voltage and frequency.
You can either install a 4 position rotary type switch (off, low, med, high), assuming your motor is capable of 3 speeds or,
You can rewire the motor for the correct speed to attain proper flow but you won't be able to control the speed this way.
Most blowers I have wired have red(low), black(high) and blue(med) wires but some may only have 1 or 2 speeds. It would just be a matter of switching one of motor speed wires (red, black or blue) with another, on the switch leg side of the switch.


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: wolfedawwg]
    #23956831 - 12/25/16 04:57 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Pretty much.


--------------------
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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: Kenetic]
    #23957111 - 12/25/16 07:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

So basically my best bet would be to limit the intake like I have been then?


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Invisiblewolfedawwg
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #23957205 - 12/25/16 07:59 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Probably so.
It's pretty simple to change the speed at no cost, provided the motor is capable but we don't even know if your motor has variable speeds.
With that said, when it comes to figuring how big, small, easy or hard a certain job in this trade, it's pretty much impossible without all the specs and some pictures.


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Edited by wolfedawwg (12/25/16 08:01 PM)


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Invisibleblood4blood
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: Kenetic]
    #24014051 - 01/16/17 08:50 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

What is the best way to add more circuits to a 100amp circuit box?  We're adding a room to house and our circuit box is full.


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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: blood4blood] * 1
    #24015066 - 01/16/17 03:31 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Mini breakers or add a sub panel.


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Invisibleblood4blood
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: wolfedawwg]
    #24015316 - 01/16/17 05:11 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

if I add a subpanel does the main circuit on the sub panel have the match the main circuit on the main box?


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: blood4blood]
    #24015518 - 01/16/17 06:38 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

No a subpanel is generally smaller than a main panel in terms of amperage capacity, which is determined by the rating of the equipment. 

Sounds like you need to call an electrician.  Add up the amperage of each breaker in your panel and compare the total to the capacity of the panel and if you are at your limit you need an electrician.  Otherwise you could just turn the main off and pop a breaker in


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InvisiblerhizoRider
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: Kenetic]
    #24015557 - 01/16/17 06:57 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Cool thread offer :cheers: thanks
I am looking for a backup propane only furnace system for a trailer home Aprox 14 x 70 ft and thought a solar powered system to just run a thermostat may work ?
Or am I dreaming?
I'm not there 100% of time so gas generators or wood stove wouldn't help.
Mainly want a lp system (smaller)) rigged to solar powered thermostat in case of bad winter power outages.
Thanks for any help and ideas.
It will bug me till I get a backup system set.
Damn winter ice knocks down trees and power lines.
Gotta have backup off grid
Or fork over $5k for some wild generator.
I'd keep $1500 as start limit.


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Invisibleblood4blood
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: Kenetic]
    #24015662 - 01/16/17 07:36 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

kenetic said:
No a subpanel is generally smaller than a main panel in terms of amperage capacity, which is determined by the rating of the equipment. 

Sounds like you need to call an electrician.  Add up the amperage of each breaker in your panel and compare the total to the capacity of the panel and if you are at your limit you need an electrician.  Otherwise you could just turn the main off and pop a breaker in




I thought you were an electrician:hehehe:

So you're saying that is my circuits add up to more than the 100 amp service I have Ill need to upgrade to a 200 amp service?  I think i lookied into that a cpl years ago and that was around 5k for an electrician to do, I think the disconnect was 2k alone


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: blood4blood]
    #24016594 - 01/17/17 06:12 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

That seems like overkill for just a couple circuits for a room.  Id just call a local electrician and see what options you have


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Todo Cambia
   

               
                                                :cookiemonster::elmo:



DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet


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InvisibleLophosaurus
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: Kenetic]
    #24018704 - 01/17/17 10:38 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

What are you adding? A few outlets and lights? Any appliances or 240v loads?

You could add a 60amp sub-panel. 60a 2-pole breaker and feed with 6/3 wire.


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Invisiblewolfedawwg
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: blood4blood]
    #24018769 - 01/17/17 11:15 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

If you only require general lighting and plug circuits your easiest and cheapest bet is to get a quad mini breaker (suitable for your panel) and swap out 1 regular 220 V breaker.
A quad mini will give you 4 breakers in the space of 2 regular breakers.
Best bet is to get something like this and replace it with a 220 V circuit.......


What type of panel do you have?


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Invisibleblood4blood
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: wolfedawwg]
    #24020769 - 01/18/17 05:37 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

square D


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Invisiblewolfedawwg
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: blood4blood]
    #24020875 - 01/18/17 06:18 PM (7 years, 10 days ago)

If you installed 2 of these in place of 2 standard breakers, you would gain 2 circuits in your panel.


Not sure if 2 general circuits will be enough.
All depends what is going to be in the new "room"...:shrug:


Edited by wolfedawwg (01/18/17 06:24 PM)


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: Kenetic]
    #24136963 - 03/04/17 06:25 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Ok ive got a question:

im planning on installing a hot tub panel outdoors. We just bought 60ft of outdoor UF-B 6-3 copper wire rated for 50 amps.

My question is can i run this outdoor grade wire along the wall of my house without using conduit piping? Part of the wire i am going to bury underground by slicing a section out of the concert path we have. Another large section of the outdoor wire is gunna be inside the walls of our garage.

But that edge along the outside of our house is what puzzles me: can i just staple it to the wall or does it need to be in conduit?

Also, for the section of concrete i cut out for the wire: do i just put sand down then put the outdoor wire in the sand, then add the concrete to fill the small trench?

thanks for the help :thumbup:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #24137941 - 03/05/17 06:49 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Ok ive got a question:

im planning on installing a hot tub panel outdoors. We just bought 60ft of outdoor UF-B 6-3 copper wire rated for 50 amps.

My question is can i run this outdoor grade wire along the wall of my house without using conduit piping? Part of the wire i am going to bury underground by slicing a section out of the concert path we have. Another large section of the outdoor wire is gunna be inside the walls of our garage.

But that edge along the outside of our house is what puzzles me: can i just staple it to the wall or does it need to be in conduit?

Also, for the section of concrete i cut out for the wire: do i just put sand down then put the outdoor wire in the sand, then add the concrete to fill the small trench?

thanks for the help :thumbup:




It's funny I was just looking into a somewhat similar question last night.  That is, where does Romex need to be in conduit.  The short answer is where it is exposed to possible damage, like from your wall to a water heater.  Or in your case, likely up along the wall of your house.  The rest of the wire in your case is direct burial so the underground portion doesn't need conduit.  Likewise, I don't imagine the wire in your garage would be but that's a maybe.  You get into local codes and such at some point.  Anyway, the basic "idea" is that at some point you don't want Romex shoved tight into a conduit because it could overheat.  You get into percent of the space the wire takes up in the conduit and if you go above that with too fat a wire in too small of conduit that ain't good.

Your particular wire it turns out needs a minimum 1 1/2" conduit or maybe 2" would be better but that's a pretty fat pipe alongside your house.  As to the concrete, I don't know if that cable can be concreted so you need to check that out.  The other question is are there concerns where the wire goes through the conduit as to keeping it from cutting that edge of the plastic.  Google is a tool just ask your question and you end up in some forum with people that know electrical stuff in detail.


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InvisibleLophosaurus
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Re: Need Electrical Help? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #24138073 - 03/05/17 08:26 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

You would be better off returning the UF And running conduit the whole way. 1" PVC. I don't have my code book in front of me, but I think the NEC requires conduit for spas and you're not supposed to run romex thru conduit with out stripping it either. If you decide to stick with the UF then just sleve pvc over it where it is coming up out of the ground and anywhere above ground. Also make sure you bond anything metal within 5' of the spa.


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