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OfflineUniverseOfTheMind8
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Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience?
    #23676170 - 09/25/16 09:33 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I plan on trying Aya here very soon, but haven't been able to decide whether to  go to a shaman or just to brew my own in the comfort of my home and trip alone. My intentions for my experience are therapeutic healing. Is it possible to achieve that alone or would I probably just end up getting overwhelmed and lost in the experience without the guidance of the Shaman? Also how intense of an experience should I be expecting? I know it will end up being pretty up there, but does it rival the intensity of DMT? Or does it tend to be even more intense since it lasts so much longer? Is there really any way for me to prepare myself mentally for it, or will I just have to dive in and hope mother Aya is at least somewhat gentle with me? Just some questions I had, any sort of Aya tips or advice would be great.Thankyou in advance.


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OfflineTrippedytrip
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: UniverseOfTheMind8]
    #23676180 - 09/25/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I would never do it alone.

I would do it with a shaman in the Jungle :smile:

As i speak spanish you can get good connections and not get raped lol

Good Luck


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Offlinedcthestar
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: UniverseOfTheMind8]
    #23676184 - 09/25/16 09:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I would say get online and start doing a lot of reading about people who have done it and those who have used a shaman and those that haven't. My good buddy used to make his own aya and he would just curl up in bed and do an annual cleansing as he called it.

But if you do some reading you could find information about fasting and diet in the weeks leading up to it, your not supposed to smoke or drink alcohol, have an orgasm... Etc.


--------------------
you better pray to god there's some fucking thorazine in that bag
:trippydoc:


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InvisibleAcidStrippedMind
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: dcthestar]
    #23676278 - 09/25/16 10:20 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Aya ceremonies are fucking dumb, I wouldn't go to one if it was free. Just do your research, make ur own shit, get a friend or two and hit the woods. Have your own trip.


--------------------


I am the storm. I am the wonder.


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OfflineUniverseOfTheMind8
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: dcthestar]
    #23676329 - 09/25/16 10:42 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

When I first read that I thought you said "fisting and dieing" lol, and yeah i've done a decent amount of reading trying to decide which I should do. I could never really find any good well done reports of people trying it alone though, the majority were with a shaman. So I figured i'd get the opinions of people on here. And yeah, I have read about it being a good idea to diet and refrain from smoking/drinking for a few weeks beforehand. No orgasms though? Never heard of that, that's interesting. Also, when it comes to the fasting should it be done only on the day of cosumption, or is it a good idea to do it for a couple days leading up to it?


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OfflineUniverseOfTheMind8
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: AcidStrippedMind]
    #23676333 - 09/25/16 10:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

What makes them dumb in your opinion?


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OfflineUniverseOfTheMind8
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: AcidStrippedMind]
    #23676351 - 09/25/16 10:48 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I am really contemplating just doing it on my own though, the prices some of these Aya retreats charge is pretty ridiculous.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: UniverseOfTheMind8]
    #23676475 - 09/25/16 11:28 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You'll be fine taking it on your own, it's quite medicinal, therapeutic and spiritual.

I've only ever taken it by myself, and i've taken it a lot since 2012 lol. Honestly i'd say to try it by yourself first before putting the money down to go see a shaman. The plants work just fine without a shaman, and the plants will guide/teach you.

There's no need to fast, or restrict your diet or avoid sex/masturbation, the medicine works just fine. And there's no Tyramine reaction with the Harmalas in Aya so there's no dietary restrictions. I just don't eat the day of before taking it, and then eat afterwards. You do have to avoid certain medications though, so do be sure to look into that.

If you're looking for therapeutic healing, in my honest opinion it'd be best taking it on your own in your home, i've gotten tons of therapeutic healing from working with it on my own.

Start with a more moderate dosage of the plants though before diving all the way in, a high dosage might be too overwhelming for you at first. The most intense part is during the come up which typically only lasts about 1 to 2 hours, during the come up the Adrenaline is quite noticeable which can make it quite intense, so just remember to stay calm/relaxed, focus on your breathing, let go/surrender to the medicine and don't fight/resist it or it'll end up making things more intense. Once the come up is stabilized and things are calmer, the magic really comes out. Also, music can be a really big help during the come up, so if you find yourself needing to relax, put on some good tunes, preferably some instrumental music, and let the music take you within.


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Edited by Sabnock (09/25/16 02:59 PM)


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: AcidStrippedMind]
    #23676512 - 09/25/16 11:44 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

AcidStrippedMind said:
Aya ceremonies are fucking dumb, I wouldn't go to one if it was free. Just do your research, make ur own shit, get a friend or two and hit the woods. Have your own trip.




:whathesaid:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23672510#23672510


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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OfflineUniverseOfTheMind8
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: Sabnock]
    #23676559 - 09/25/16 12:02 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thankyou for the info, was very helpful. I do sometimes have a problem with letting go when things get pretty intense and there's alot of mind fuck though (like the sort of mindfuck that can come with shrooms for example). I go into like an instinctual flight or fight type mode and have a pretty hard time calming myself back down once all the anxiety/panic builds up. Does Aya have the relatively same kind of mind fuck or do you stay pretty clear minded? Also, what's the best way of letting go in those situations where you have the strong instinct to fight it in your opinion?


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: UniverseOfTheMind8]
    #23676780 - 09/25/16 01:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

UniverseOfTheMind8 said:
Thankyou for the info, was very helpful. I do sometimes have a problem with letting go when things get pretty intense and there's alot of mind fuck though (like the sort of mindfuck that can come with shrooms for example). I go into like an instinctual flight or fight type mode and have a pretty hard time calming myself back down once all the anxiety/panic builds up. Does Aya have the relatively same kind of mind fuck or do you stay pretty clear minded? Also, what's the best way of letting go in those situations where you have the strong instinct to fight it in your opinion?





I also have some issues letting go. There is a mindfuck with DMT ime, but i do feel pretty clear minded. With the Adrenline triggering the fight or flight response, i've found perhaps the best thing to do is to start listening to some good music which helps you focus more on the music rather than the intensity/internal tension. Without music, things can certainly be a bit difficult/challenging, but i've usually found myself rocking back and forth with my hands between my thighs or side to side, shaking my legs/feet like i have restless legs, focusing on my breathing, and sometimes even laying down/back can really help out as well. As long as your mindset is in a good place and you can ride out the come up, you should be alright. Sometimes even one or two songs is enough to keep you from going into a bad headspace during the intensity.

Just remember to tell yourself that you took this stuff, you're not going to die, you'll be fine. Just breathe, calm down, relax, and go within.

It can be quite challenging or even terrifying at times, depending on the dosage, but you'll be alright. Just go in with an open/curious mind, be open and receptive to the plants and to what comes your way during an experience and surrender/give in/let go when feeling the fear/anxiety. Focusing on your breath is a really good way to help you calm down/relax.

In case you feel like you're completely overwhelmed with intensity and you want things to calm down/end, then throwing up usually seems to help with that, but don't throw up unless you really have to because you don't wanna waste the medicine, but it's usually common to purge about an hour and a half to two hours in anyways ime.


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OfflinePsychoKinesiS
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: Sabnock]
    #23676797 - 09/25/16 01:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The legend goes that is not the Ayahuasca that heals you but the shaman. The Ayahuasca merely opens you up for manipulation, for better or worse, and it is the shaman who performs the therapy while you are in this state. The healing icaros sung by the shamans are theraputic. Without the shaman, demons can infiltrate you instead. Or so the legend goes.


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InvisibleAcidStrippedMind
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: PsychoKinesiS]
    #23676913 - 09/25/16 02:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PsychoKinesiS said:
The legend goes that is not the Ayahuasca that heals you but the shaman. The Ayahuasca merely opens you up for manipulation, for better or worse, and it is the shaman who performs the therapy while you are in this state. The healing icaros sung by the shamans are theraputic. Without the shaman, demons can infiltrate you instead. Or so the legend goes.



Exactly why I think they're dumb.


--------------------


I am the storm. I am the wonder.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: AcidStrippedMind]
    #23676950 - 09/25/16 02:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah the plants are certainly therapeutic/medicinal/spiritual on their own, a shaman is not necessary.

And there's no demons that are going to enter your body. I am tired of people throwing that out there like it's fact, scaring people away from taking stuff like this. I really do not believe in demons, never encountered one even while journeying on the medicine, therefore imo the risk of running into some demon is slim to none. And if there are demons, you'd probably have more of a chance of running into one at a retreat/ceremony than you would by yourself, imo. The whole demon/demonic possession thing is bs imo/ime, but some folks do claim that they're real, i beg to differ though, and unless i end up encountering one someday, my belief is that demons do not exist. People need to stop being afraid of things, and if someone does run into a demon, i've read/heard that there are ways to protect yourself and the space.


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InvisibleAstralAndrew
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: Sabnock]
    #23676984 - 09/25/16 02:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Sabnock said:
You'll be fine taking it on your own, it's quite medicinal, therapeutic and spiritual.

I've only ever taken it by myself, and i've taken it a lot since 2012 lol. Honestly i'd said to try it by yourself first before putting the money down to go see a shaman. The plants work just fine without a shaman, and the plants will guide/teach you.

There's no need to fast, or restrict your diet or avoid sex/masturbation, the medicine works just fine. And there's no Tyramine reaction with the Harmalas in Aya so there's no dietary restrictions. I just don't eat the day of before taking it, and then eat afterwards. You do have to avoid certain medications though, so do be sure to look into that.

If you're looking for therapeutic healing, in my honest opinion it'd be best taking it on your own in your home, i've gotten tons of therapeutic healing from working with it on my own.

Start with a more moderate dosage of the plants though before diving all the way in, a high dosage might be too overwhelming for you at first. The most intense part is during the come up which typically only lasts about 1 to 2 hours, during the come up the Adrenaline is quite noticeable which can make it quite intense, so just remember to stay calm/relaxed, focus on your breathing, let go/surrender to the medicine and don't fight/resist it or it'll end up making things more intense. Once the come up is stabilized and things are calmer, the magic really comes out. Also, music can be a really big help during the come up, so if you find yourself needing to relax, put on some good tunes, preferably some instrumental music, and let the music take you within.



I really don't think you need to look far beyond this post here. Perfectly defined in my mind.


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:dawerp::awepreciation::trippinbawelz::raveface::aweyeah::awecid:

"The opposite for courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow." - Jim Hightower


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OfflinePsychoKinesiS
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: AstralAndrew]
    #23677102 - 09/25/16 03:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I know I'm a bit skeptical of the claims of shamans, but at the least you should have an experienced trip sitter there in case you have a medical emergency, to guide you to the bathroom, and keep the environment positive. Ayahuasca is serious stuff. It's not like acid where you can just get up and handle most things by yourself.


--------------------


Edited by PsychoKinesiS (09/25/16 03:36 PM)


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: PsychoKinesiS]
    #23677280 - 09/25/16 04:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PsychoKinesiS said:
I know I'm a bit skeptical of the claims of shamans, but at the least you should have an experienced trip sitter there in case you have a medical emergency, to guide you to the bathroom, and keep the environment positive. Ayahuasca is serious stuff. It's not like acid where you can just get up and handle most things by yourself.




Actually that depends on dosage, when using a moderate to high dose of Harmalas and a good dose of DMT, i can walk around and do things quite well (after the come up that is, though during the come up i can still move around if i need to), even when i first started off i didn't have much of an issue moving around if i needed to. I actually tend to function better on Harmalas and DMT than i do when sober lol. If you take a strong/heavy dosage of Harmalas, perhaps then you might need some help because it can definitely impair your motor function, but with a more moderate dosage of Harmalas it definitely shouldn't floor someone.

As for a trip sitter, i agree, but perhaps just have someone in another room/close by that you can call out for if you need help, rather than having them in the room with you, unless you want them in the room with you. Though i take it by myself and haven't really had much of an issue, except maybe once when i needed to talk to someone to calm me down but for the most part i seem to handle myself pretty well.


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Edited by Sabnock (09/25/16 06:12 PM)


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InvisibleDustyBottoms
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: AcidStrippedMind]
    #23677628 - 09/25/16 06:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

AcidStrippedMind said:
Aya ceremonies are fucking dumb, I wouldn't go to one if it was free. Just do your research, make ur own shit, get a friend or two and hit the woods. Have your own trip.




Info on where to buy?  I was contemplating on going to Peru for this next year but would rather do it in my apartment.


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OfflinePsychoKinesiS
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: DustyBottoms]
    #23677651 - 09/25/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I'm referring to real doses of Aya where you reach level 5, not low experimental doses where you are pussy footing around.


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InvisibleAcidStrippedMind
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: DustyBottoms]
    #23677883 - 09/25/16 08:11 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DustyBottoms said:
Quote:

AcidStrippedMind said:
Aya ceremonies are fucking dumb, I wouldn't go to one if it was free. Just do your research, make ur own shit, get a friend or two and hit the woods. Have your own trip.




Info on where to buy?  I was contemplating on going to Peru for this next year but would rather do it in my apartment.



I'm not sure what ur asking.


--------------------


I am the storm. I am the wonder.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: PsychoKinesiS]
    #23678372 - 09/25/16 11:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PsychoKinesiS said:
I'm referring to real doses of Aya where you reach level 5, not low experimental doses where you are pussy footing around.




I by all means haven't pussy footed around lol. I've taken quite strong dosages of both DMT and Harmalas on many occasions. I just prefer more moderate dosages because i mainly use it more for it's medicinal purposes these days, whereas beforehand i was taking it to have experiences. Moderate dosages are still quite strong/intense and not something to play around with that's for sure. Low dosages of DMT though i would consider to be more pussy footing around, but even low doses of DMT has some usefulness i've found.

But like i said, going with a high dosage of Harmalas/Rue i can still move around just fine, though i'm more sedated and relaxed. And since i've been taking strong dosages of Rue daily for 5 months now (though the last 5 days i haven't taken it, gonna take it again in a couple of days though), the reverse tolerance has built up quite a lot, so even super strong/heavy dosages of Rue feels pretty darn clean on the body and no side-effects/body load, though at such strong dosages, tremoring can become noticeable but by the time i get to that point i end up lowering the dosage because i don't wanna have convulsions and such. With the Rue's reverse tolerance built up, i can take a dose that is pretty much equivalent to about 10 grams of Rue, without side-effects. The reverse tolerance is quite awesome, and there'd be no way in hell i'd be able to take that much Rue without instantly vomiting it back up if it weren't for the reverse tolerance, lol.


--------------------


Edited by Sabnock (09/26/16 01:01 AM)


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: UniverseOfTheMind8]
    #23678518 - 09/26/16 12:35 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

No. You'll be better off doing it on your own. Tons of people on DMT nexus do it all the time.


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Offlinecrzgfx
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: PsychoKinesiS]
    #23678614 - 09/26/16 02:07 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PsychoKinesiS said:
The legend goes that is not the Ayahuasca that heals you but the shaman. The Ayahuasca merely opens you up for manipulation, for better or worse, and it is the shaman who performs the therapy while you are in this state. The healing icaros sung by the shamans are theraputic. Without the shaman, demons can infiltrate you instead. Or so the legend goes.




That's just wrong. I study anthropology and in Latin American cultures using ayahuasca, it is indeed the shaman who heals you - BUT it is almost NEVER the patient who consumes Ayahuasca. The shaman drinks Ayahuasca and then heals the patient in trance by fetching back his soul or cleansing it of evil spirits.

Therefore, you shouldn't bother with an Ayahuasca retreat. The people who sell drug experiences there aren't authentic shamans, but rather experience entrepreneurs. Indeed, they are just after your money, while authentic shamans would not build Ayahuasca retreats for tourists. You should rather brew it yourself and ask a friend to trip sit you.


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: UniverseOfTheMind8]
    #23678626 - 09/26/16 02:15 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

UniverseOfTheMind8 said:
Thankyou for the info, was very helpful. I do sometimes have a problem with letting go when things get pretty intense and there's alot of mind fuck though (like the sort of mindfuck that can come with shrooms for example). I go into like an instinctual flight or fight type mode and have a pretty hard time calming myself back down once all the anxiety/panic builds up. Does Aya have the relatively same kind of mind fuck or do you stay pretty clear minded? Also, what's the best way of letting go in those situations where you have the strong instinct to fight it in your opinion?




Ayahuasca and mushrooms aren't the only psychedelics which can be used to induce healing experiences. In fact it's possible with any psychedelic at the right dose, in the right setting, but most importantly in the right mindset.

If you prefer a psychedelic with less mindfuck, there's nothing wrong with that, just choose a drug with less mindfuck. There's no reason to use one of the drugs that is more commonly used for these purposes simply because it's used more commonly for these purposes, especially when there's likely a more comfortable drug you could be using.


--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.



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InvisibleDustyBottoms
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: AcidStrippedMind]
    #23678811 - 09/26/16 05:37 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

AcidStrippedMind said:
Quote:

DustyBottoms said:
Quote:

AcidStrippedMind said:
Aya ceremonies are fucking dumb, I wouldn't go to one if it was free. Just do your research, make ur own shit, get a friend or two and hit the woods. Have your own trip.




Info on where to buy?  I was contemplating on going to Peru for this next year but would rather do it in my apartment.



I'm not sure what ur asking.




People keep mentioning that going to Peru is not necessary and that you can do it in the comfort of your own home, however, after a search online I see nowhere to buy


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InvisibleAcidStrippedMind
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: DustyBottoms]
    #23679030 - 09/26/16 08:17 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DustyBottoms said:
Quote:

AcidStrippedMind said:
Quote:

DustyBottoms said:
Quote:

AcidStrippedMind said:
Aya ceremonies are fucking dumb, I wouldn't go to one if it was free. Just do your research, make ur own shit, get a friend or two and hit the woods. Have your own trip.




Info on where to buy?  I was contemplating on going to Peru for this next year but would rather do it in my apartment.



I'm not sure what ur asking.




People keep mentioning that going to Peru is not necessary and that you can do it in the comfort of your own home, however, after a search online I see nowhere to buy



Extract it yourself or check the DNM.


--------------------


I am the storm. I am the wonder.


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Is a Shaman necessary for a proper Ayahuasca experience? [Re: DustyBottoms]
    #23679813 - 09/26/16 12:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DustyBottoms said:
Quote:

AcidStrippedMind said:
Quote:

DustyBottoms said:
Quote:

AcidStrippedMind said:
Aya ceremonies are fucking dumb, I wouldn't go to one if it was free. Just do your research, make ur own shit, get a friend or two and hit the woods. Have your own trip.




Info on where to buy?  I was contemplating on going to Peru for this next year but would rather do it in my apartment.



I'm not sure what ur asking.




People keep mentioning that going to Peru is not necessary and that you can do it in the comfort of your own home, however, after a search online I see nowhere to buy




I don't know the best place to go, but I know you can buy it on eBay. It's all over the internet. You just haven't looked very well.


--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.



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