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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



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Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? 1
#23673597 - 09/24/16 11:04 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I always get stomach issues when consuming, wonder if frying them up in some butter would effect this. Or if they reconstitute well...
Far as I know every other fungus we eat needs to/should be cooked before consumption. So...?
Some say that tea lessens stomach issues so maybe. Anybody tried cooking them up straight or with something? Probably tastes ghastly
(Please for the love of god, do NOT start the heat effecting potency debate.)
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TedTheHighlighter
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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: Psilosopherr] 1
#23673632 - 09/24/16 11:15 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think the main reason is because heat destroys psilocybin
-------------------- Alice asked the Cheshire Cat, who was sitting in a tree, “What road do I take?” The cat asked, “Where do you want to go?” “I don’t know,” Alice answered. “Then,” said the cat, “it really doesn’t matter, does it?”
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fractaloctopus
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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: TedTheHighlighter]
#23673685 - 09/24/16 11:34 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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You can eat most other (if not all) regular mushrooms raw. I think most people don't due to texture and flavour.
I would say that most people just eat magic mushrooms either raw or dried because cooking them would imply a possibly savory flavour which I highly doubt they would have. Not to mention most people are far more interested in just getting them down as opposed to savoring the eating experience.
If you're having stomach issues definitely try tea or lemontek. I always use lemontek now and it has pretty much eliminated nausea for me.
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impaired420
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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: fractaloctopus]
#23673852 - 09/24/16 12:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Also I think most people who dose aren't really worried about it. Their main concern is to get high 
They wouldn't taste too bad sauted and put on some chicken Alfredo maybe?
-------------------- "Our task must be to free ourselves... By widening our circle of compassion, To embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty." -Albert Einstein Offering salvia divinorum clones, leaf, and extracts for trades legal states.
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FrozenHappiness
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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: Psilosopherr]
#23673874 - 09/24/16 12:41 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Culinary mushrooms should be cooked because their moist surfaces are a breeding ground for bacteria, so they are a potential vector for food poisoning. Making tea out of psychoactive species lessen stomach issues related to digestion of the chitin in the mushroom's cell wall. However, there is a pharmacological reason psychoactive species cause nausea as well. Psilocybin effects the serotonin receptors in the gut. These effects slow down intestinal peristalsis which can increase the likelihood of stomach issues if there is too much partially digested food in the intestines. That is why it is recommended to fast from 2-6 hours (depending on the individual) before dosing. Even when dosing on an empty stomach there is no guarantee that your experience will be nausea free. Psilocybin's interactions with the gut's serotonin receptors alone can cause uncomfortable stomach sensations -- most notably the anxious, butterfly feeling during the come-up, and sometimes outright nausea throughout the trip.
Taking something that also has an affinity for the serotonin receptors in the gut prior to dosing (like ginger or lemon balm) can mitigate some of these pharmacological effects, but it won't eliminate all of them. Part of the mushroom experience is dealing with weird body stuff. Buy the ticket. Take the ride.
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Universe
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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: FrozenHappiness]
#23676507 - 09/25/16 11:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm wondering about this "chitin" stuff. I've read that it's the reason why mushroom tea goes down easier than just eating them.
Is it in all mushrooms? My wife gets white mushrooms from the supermarket. She cuts them up and they go in salads, veggie wraps, other things - I never get nauseous from them.
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Psilosopherr
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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: Universe]
#23676529 - 09/25/16 11:49 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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aha, a good point.
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FrozenHappiness
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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: Psilosopherr]
#23676581 - 09/25/16 12:11 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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The cell walls of all fungi are made of chitin. I believe it is primarily the pharmacological effect of the psilocybin that causes the nausea. The chitin issue may contribute some due to the decreased rate of digestion induced by the psilocybin, but honestly I think placing the blame on chitin has been way overblown on these boards. People don't like to admit that their favorite drugs can have unpleasant side-effects
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impaired420
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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: FrozenHappiness]
#23676804 - 09/25/16 01:35 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think it has more to do with bacteria on the mushrooms themselves.
I find that when I grow my own mushrooms, 9/10 I don't get any stomach discomfort.
Only out of like 15 mushroom trips 2-3 have been rough on my stomach, other 12-13 times not bad at all.
It could probably also have something to do with contents still in the stomach from previous meals or just down to biochemistry.
Not only do mushrooms do funny things to the receptors in our guts but the release of serotonin can also cause nausea.
Could be a multitude of things in conjunction or a solitary cause. Who knows for sure.
I put my bet on bacteria.
-------------------- "Our task must be to free ourselves... By widening our circle of compassion, To embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty." -Albert Einstein Offering salvia divinorum clones, leaf, and extracts for trades legal states.
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nooneman


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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: Psilosopherr]
#23676811 - 09/25/16 01:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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RR barbecues his from time to time. I imagine they're excellent if cooked well.
However, I did try to cook them on a stove once, and it amplified the taste by about 10x. I have no idea how to properly prepare it, and if you don't properly prepare it, it tastes 10x as strong.
I'd much rather eat it dried.
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Universe
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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: nooneman]
#23677104 - 09/25/16 03:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: ....I'd much rather eat it dried.
Me too. The only time wet shrooms are good is when you pick it straight off the plant and toss it in your mouth. After that they get kinda gross, even if you refrigerate and try to keep them fresh.
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wigglewak



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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: Psilosopherr]
#23677550 - 09/25/16 06:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Whenever magic mushrooms hurt my stomach I also didn't chew them up very well. Maybe try grinding them down and then consuming them. You can make chocolates with honey and they are super tasty.
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Bernard
Cultvr - Not Necessarily Trusted



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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: wigglewak]
#23677930 - 09/25/16 08:24 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've only tripped a few times, but I've done a lot of research because I get stomach problems a lot.
All mushrooms have some amount of chitin. Chitin is very difficult (if not impossible) for humans to properly digest. Search on the internet, and you'll see that chitin can cause stomach issues for a lot of people because it's so hard to digest. I know that the 4 times I ate mushrooms straight up, I got a bad stomach ache. Once I tried to soak ground up dry shrooms in cranberry juice - projectile vomit. Whoever came up with that crap....damn you.....
Chitin can be broken down simply by heat. I know some people say that heat kills the actives, but I completely disagree. Last time I tripped, I put 1.2 chopped grams in a potato soup and boiled for about 10 minutes. My trip level was about what I expected, and I got very little stomach issues. I felt nauseated for like 10 seconds, then it was over. It actually tasted good!!
I think the trick is to cook the shrooms for quite a few minutes and let that chitin break down. I haven't tried the lemon and tea thing yet, but it's next on my list. Biggest point here is that the heat won't reduce your trip. I'm certain you can boil for a while and not see any loss of effect.
I really hope someone comments on this next part.
Another thought: I know that when I start out tripping, I get very heightened senses - I see clearly, I hear things I haven't notice before, I feel and taste things better. I remember tripping and later eating a little piece of ham. I could literally feel the acid injecting into my stomach!! I think that sometimes I feel like I have a stomach ache when in fact it's just my stomach doing it's normal thing. It's just that you don't notice when you aren't tripping. I think it's the same reason some people feel like they have to go to the bathroom. They always have that feeling, but while tripping, they're more aware of it. I also notice minor aches and pains, floaters in my eyes, and ringing in my ears. These things always exist, it's just that I ignore them after a while. The mushrooms make me notice all that again.
Does this make sense?
Edited by Bernard (09/25/16 08:26 PM)
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: Bernard]
#23678026 - 09/25/16 09:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes that last paragraph makes sense bernard, thought your post as a whole made some good points. I do have some sort of unknown stomach ailment that I just cover up with weed and forget about....oops totally forgot about that. Been eating way healthier as of late though so maybe that will take care of itself.
I'm also happy with the thread as a whole, lots of genuine input from varied perspectives/experiences. Good to see.
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psilosalvia
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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: Psilosopherr]
#23678494 - 09/26/16 12:22 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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You don't cook the mushrooms because you like the psilocybin more than the taste
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“Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.” -Edward Teach.
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healing
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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: Bernard]
#23678633 - 09/26/16 02:26 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bernard said: I've only tripped a few times, but I've done a lot of research because I get stomach problems a lot.
All mushrooms have some amount of chitin. Chitin is very difficult (if not impossible) for humans to properly digest. Search on the internet, and you'll see that chitin can cause stomach issues for a lot of people because it's so hard to digest. I know that the 4 times I ate mushrooms straight up, I got a bad stomach ache. Once I tried to soak ground up dry shrooms in cranberry juice - projectile vomit. Whoever came up with that crap....damn you.....
Chitin can be broken down simply by heat. I know some people say that heat kills the actives, but I completely disagree. Last time I tripped, I put 1.2 chopped grams in a potato soup and boiled for about 10 minutes. My trip level was about what I expected, and I got very little stomach issues. I felt nauseated for like 10 seconds, then it was over. It actually tasted good!!
I think the trick is to cook the shrooms for quite a few minutes and let that chitin break down. I haven't tried the lemon and tea thing yet, but it's next on my list. Biggest point here is that the heat won't reduce your trip. I'm certain you can boil for a while and not see any loss of effect.
I really hope someone comments on this next part.
Another thought: I know that when I start out tripping, I get very heightened senses - I see clearly, I hear things I haven't notice before, I feel and taste things better. I remember tripping and later eating a little piece of ham. I could literally feel the acid injecting into my stomach!! I think that sometimes I feel like I have a stomach ache when in fact it's just my stomach doing it's normal thing. It's just that you don't notice when you aren't tripping. I think it's the same reason some people feel like they have to go to the bathroom. They always have that feeling, but while tripping, they're more aware of it. I also notice minor aches and pains, floaters in my eyes, and ringing in my ears. These things always exist, it's just that I ignore them after a while. The mushrooms make me notice all that again.
Does this make sense?
Chitin is actually kind of difficult to break down with heat. I don't know where you got that idea. I can't find any sources to support it. Here's this source: http://sci-hub.cc/10.1016/0165-2370(91)80038-a
It says that to get rid of about half the chitin in your mushrooms, you'd have to cook them at over 500°F for about 15 hours.
Apparently, the maximum amount of chitin you can get to degrade with heat before you start straight up burning everything is about 550°C for 15 hours, and that only gets rid of a little bit more. It's hard to tell exactly how much because it's a low res graph, but it's somewhere between 50% and 60%.
And there's one figure that applies a little bit more directly to you. If you get your chitin to 100°C, the boiling temperature of water, for 15 hours you're only going to degrade about 10%.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
Edited by healing (09/26/16 02:45 AM)
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healing
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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: healing]
#23678648 - 09/26/16 02:56 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm really sorry. I made a mistake in my understanding of that article.
If you heat chitin to 100°C for 15 hours, it actually won't degrade any chitin. The 10% mass loss occurs because there is water trapped in the polymer which evaporates.
This other article explains the effect a little more clearly than the first: http://sci-hub.cc/10.1007/s10973-012-2359-6#
This experiment didn't have a fixed time frame like the other one. So the lowest temperature and time at which they got chitin to degrade like almost not at all was about 500°C for about 1 hour and 20 minutes.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
Edited by healing (09/26/16 03:02 AM)
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Bernard
Cultvr - Not Necessarily Trusted



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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: healing]
#23678991 - 09/26/16 07:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Those links brought me to some strange site.....
I was reading this stuff...
http://www.prevention.com/health/health-experts/ask-dr-weil-it-true-you-should-never-eat-mushrooms-raw
Of course, they aren't providing hard experimental data.
The data you are providing, healing, suggests that cooking them is not what made my stomach ache go away.
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healing
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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: Bernard] 1
#23679797 - 09/26/16 12:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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That site is called sci-hub. It's located in Russia because it's illegal for them to host it in the US. It was invented by a Kazakhstani graduate student, who basically stole every article from every scientific journal they could get and made them available for free to anybody. It's one of the most important thing to happen in for the advancement of the scientific community in a long while because it democratizes the scientific process.
Plus those are the only two articles that I could find and normally you'd have to pay for them, so now we have the information thanks to sci-hub.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
Edited by healing (09/26/16 12:52 PM)
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healing
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Re: Why is it the norm to eat 'magic' mushrooms raw when all gourmet species need to be cooked? [Re: Bernard]
#23679827 - 09/26/16 12:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bernard said: Those links brought me to some strange site.....
I was reading this stuff...
http://www.prevention.com/health/health-experts/ask-dr-weil-it-true-you-should-never-eat-mushrooms-raw
Of course, they aren't providing hard experimental data.
The data you are providing, healing, suggests that cooking them is not what made my stomach ache go away.
Here's what I think happened, you read this part, "Raw mushrooms contain small amounts of toxins, including some compounds that are considered carcinogens. These are destroyed by cooking them thoroughly." and assumed that they were talking about chitin.
They were not. Chitin is in no way a toxin or a carcinogen. It has next to no effect on the body because it passes through the body almost completely unchanged. Your body cannot touch chitin, that's why it makes your intestines, and just your intestines, feel uncomfortable or hurt. No nausea, no pain in your stomach, just intestinal discomfort or pain.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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