Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
Offlineyeah
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
The root cause of our damaged hearts
    #23673136 - 09/24/16 07:01 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.asha.org/Practice-Portal/Clinical-Topics/Social-Communication-Disorders-in-School-Age-Children/

Worth a read.

Basically as I understand it, parents never learned how to really express their love and it's affected us all.

My parents went through the hippie generation and they still have puritanical conditionings.

It's just all fucked puritanical bullshit.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: yeah]
    #23673237 - 09/24/16 08:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

the article goes wrong for me the minute it lists 'disorders' like 'ADHD' without mentioning ADHD is a complete fraud diagnosis. HOW can you listen to anyone pretending to tell you what is wrong when THEY accept the very toxic myths this culture puts out which screw children and adults the F up?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineyeah
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: zzripz]
    #23673270 - 09/24/16 08:33 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Honestly I didn't really read the article but all I know is that communication disorder in families will cause mental illness.

Game playing. Hinting. Saying one thing and meaning another... the American Way pretty much

If you can't roll with candor then you don't make it.


--------------------


Edited by yeah (09/24/16 08:34 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineyeah
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: yeah]
    #23673341 - 09/24/16 09:15 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Another thing that I just realized is that my parents do not realize the difference between wrath and candor.

I mean, I'm gonna have to drill it in their heads... but I'm an empath so it isn't really good for me when they make me do it.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: yeah] * 1
    #23673411 - 09/24/16 09:51 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:
Honestly I didn't really read the article but all I know is that communication disorder in families will cause mental illness.

Game playing. Hinting. Saying one thing and meaning another... the American Way pretty much

If you can't roll with candor then you don't make it.




Although I know parents can destroy their kids, to really get to the roots we have to look directly down the line to what causes their abuse which in turn affects us etc etc etc

With me, I have recounted this story a lot. I had become very dulled to the natural world, and began being obsessed with cities. it was being turned onto LSD when 15 which flushed that evil blockage away. it wasn't a 'and he lived happily ever after' though--it's more complicated than that. But I am aware how those trips I had helped remove this block that had come between me and nature.
And I see this block everywhere now. How we are destroying the natural world. This is the epitome of insanity because all life depends on the web of life. We are nature.

But you look around any many are absorbed by the gadgetry of the technomatrix and oblivious to what is happening to the real world

So I feel the urgent need to look into that. not only because of my dramatic turnaround many years ago when 15 with the acid, but what I am learning since

How the fundamentalist, and mechanical mindsets treats nature and other species it treats other humans the same way. We become commodities to be exploited and profited from


Edited by zzripz (09/24/16 09:53 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #23673451 - 09/24/16 10:07 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

great hearts emerge from the muck,
shine as brightly as you can, and when accused of inadequate parenting just keep shining.

many kids expect the light within to be kindled by others.

that type of light is just tradition, ritual, and show, the real light requires an inner resolve which is not dependent on influence.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 20 minutes, 38 seconds
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #23673452 - 09/24/16 10:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
the article goes wrong for me the minute it lists 'disorders' like 'ADHD' without mentioning ADHD is a complete fraud diagnosis. HOW can you listen to anyone pretending to tell you what is wrong when THEY accept the very toxic myths this culture puts out which screw children and adults the F up?




Are you simply talking about medication? There are some pretty good treatments for ADHD that don't revolve around that you know.

And I tend to agree with the idea that our culture is over-stimulating and shortening attention span. That bouncing from thing to thing with a tremendous lack of focus is unhealthy and a growing "disorder". I don't agree with medication as a solution however but it is a primary one. There are a lot of other approaches that have developed though and I don't think they developed around a myth so much as a real growing problem within our technological era.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #23674294 - 09/24/16 03:19 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Are you simply talking about medication? There are some pretty good treatments for ADHD that don't revolve around that you know.




No, I am meaning the very 'diagnosis' is hoax. So eg if I say I can treat your 'ADHD' with good nutrition instead of drugs, I am still then confirming a bogus label by using it!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebigdoodie
it does not matter
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 238
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: zzripz] * 2
    #23674309 - 09/24/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

ADHD And other medical labels are just used as a tool so that we wouldnt understand the reality of an issue. Our "distraction" is what we are being distracted from. They want us focused on school work. When we are "distracted" by self awareness. We have been programmed to have an opinion. Desensitized


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: zzripz]
    #23675630 - 09/25/16 12:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

Are you simply talking about medication? There are some pretty good treatments for ADHD that don't revolve around that you know.




No, I am meaning the very 'diagnosis' is hoax. So eg if I say I can treat your 'ADHD' with good nutrition instead of drugs, I am still then confirming a bogus label by using it!



that's just MORE bogus. treat it with "good nutrition".

fucking absurd. you gonna cure cancer too?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: bigdoodie] * 2
    #23675636 - 09/25/16 12:23 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bigdoodie said:
ADHD And other medical labels are just used as a tool so that we wouldnt understand the reality of an issue. Our "distraction" is what we are being distracted from. They want us focused on school work. When we are "distracted" by self awareness. We have been programmed to have an opinion. Desensitized



ADHD people have super anti-bullshit powers, and can see past the meaninglessness of it all, and thus are proclaimed deficient in attention...or they're just lacking attention because this world demands too much of people's attention with distraction being condemned as frivolous.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 12 hours, 7 minutes
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: yeah]
    #23675667 - 09/25/16 12:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:

Honestly I didn't really read the article but all I know is that communication disorder in families will cause mental illness.




Unstable parents who lack parenting skills don't cause "mental illness" in their kids.

"mental illness" implies a biological disease - a malfunction of physiological processes


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineyeah
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23675816 - 09/25/16 03:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Ah


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 20 minutes, 38 seconds
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #23675899 - 09/25/16 05:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

Are you simply talking about medication? There are some pretty good treatments for ADHD that don't revolve around that you know.




No, I am meaning the very 'diagnosis' is hoax. So eg if I say I can treat your 'ADHD' with good nutrition instead of drugs, I am still then confirming a bogus label by using it!




All labels are bogus in a way.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: Kickle]
    #23676148 - 09/25/16 09:19 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

Are you simply talking about medication? There are some pretty good treatments for ADHD that don't revolve around that you know.




No, I am meaning the very 'diagnosis' is hoax. So eg if I say I can treat your 'ADHD' with good nutrition instead of drugs, I am still then confirming a bogus label by using it!




All labels are bogus in a way.




well sell by dates labels, and GM free are very useful


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 20 minutes, 38 seconds
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #23676281 - 09/25/16 10:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

those ones not really for me but others yes

goes to show a label is as only good or bad as the person who is interpreting it I guess


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 12 hours, 7 minutes
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: yeah]
    #23692770 - 09/30/16 12:38 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:

. . . all I know is that communication disorder in families will cause mental illness.




Parental behavior can adversely effect a child's development, to such as degree as to cause neurosis

Neurosis (rage, depression, anxiety, etc) is not a biological defect ("mental illness")

Parents often put huge pressures on children. Sometimes exerting smothering love and/or intimidation.

Parents sometimes instill great fear in their children and demand constant devotion.

Sometimes a child is forced to take sides in a battle between parents.

Some parents cultivate an environment of tyranny and glorification.

In such environments, children become insecure, apprehensive, isolated and resentful.

These kids don't develop normal self-respect and balanced mental health.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineyeah
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 2
    #23693333 - 09/30/16 08:14 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I was one of them.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 12 hours, 7 minutes
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: yeah]
    #23695475 - 09/30/16 09:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:

I was one of them.




Yeah, me too.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLucisM
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
Posts: 15,622
Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 2
    #23695542 - 09/30/16 09:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

yeah said:

. . . all I know is that communication disorder in families will cause mental illness.




Parental behavior can adversely effect a child's development, to such as degree as to cause neurosis

Neurosis (rage, depression, anxiety, etc) is not a biological defect ("mental illness")

Parents often put huge pressures on children. Sometimes exerting smothering love and/or intimidation.

Parents sometimes instill great fear in their children and demand constant devotion.

Sometimes a child is forced to take sides in a battle between parents.

Some parents cultivate an environment of tyranny and glorification.

In such environments, children become insecure, apprehensive, isolated and resentful.

These kids don't develop normal self-respect and balanced mental health.






Narcissism is the major player in my family, with parents putting their needs first before their children's needs, which has stunted the growth of many people in my family, and is a cycle I will not repeat, I will die before I become like them.

But much of what you said RJ, is spot on for narcissistic parents.

If you're interested in reading about first hand accounts from people abused by narcissism, check out this subreddit.


--------------------
©️


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 12 hours, 7 minutes
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: Lucis]
    #23696120 - 10/01/16 01:29 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I will check that out Fennario.      Thanks!

Children of narcissists face particular challenges, such as

* You’re a doormat.
* You’re afraid you might be a narcissist yourself. 
* You feel relentlessly competitive with, or resentful of, your sibling.
* At times, you’ve felt you were more your parent’s partner than their child.
* You derive self-worth solely from your achievements.
* You have no sense of yourself, your wants, your needs or your goals.

Especially last 3 are totally me.
I took my father's position in the family, with my step-mom.
It took me years to discover who I really am, as I have always been other focused.

From this article . . .

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/6-ways-to-know-you-were-raised-by-narcissists_us_5616b091e4b0082030a18f72


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesecondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/05/15
Posts: 532
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Last seen: 9 months, 6 days
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23696208 - 10/01/16 03:07 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

great hearts emerge from the muck,
shine as brightly as you can, and when accused of inadequate parenting just keep shining.

many kids expect the light within to be kindled by others.

that type of light is just tradition, ritual, and show, the real light requires an inner resolve which is not dependent on influence.




This is definitely true, but I don't think it can be boiled down to something completely innate or completely environmental. The dichotomy between nature and nurture doesn't really exist. The two influence each other, and are essentially two sides of the same coin.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: secondorder]
    #23696448 - 10/01/16 07:23 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Blaming is an echo of error, but it is not clear what original error really is; or even if "knowing original error" is a functional approach to healing at all.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: yeah] * 1
    #23696531 - 10/01/16 08:37 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

What's fucked up is everything is some kind of "disorder" or is "damaged" and needs $150/hr. discussion and drugs as treatment.  Go to the psych doc, talk an hour, get diagnosed with your disorder, get a drug.  The whole pharm system is completely out of control and is completely ineffective other than to make the docs rich.  They could give a fuck about hurting kids with vaccines, they have a quota, and an obligation to give those shots at the prescribed time.

So, no, I won't read your article which has the word disorder in the title.  The big money wants disorder, they want to provide order out of chaos.  They will create the chaos and blame others in order to provide their special solution.

Meanwhile, the control of the internet was just handed over to the UN.  Thanks, Barry...


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (10/01/16 08:41 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineyeah
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23696551 - 10/01/16 08:49 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Oh


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: yeah]
    #23696575 - 10/01/16 09:01 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineviktor
psychotechnician
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: yeah]
    #23697088 - 10/01/16 12:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

My parents were both narcissists when I was born.

My mother changed over the next 30 or so years. She healed and grew. My father didn't - he just stagnated and became bitter.

35 years is a long time. If a parent was 25 when you were born then they may have changed a whole lot since.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: viktor]
    #23697163 - 10/01/16 12:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

we should assume everything has changed - and those who did not change, got worse by virtue of not improving while they could have


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisible100_the_cat
Female
Registered: 09/27/16
Posts: 315
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #23708882 - 10/05/16 04:46 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

ADHD -- my theory is that everyone is hyperactive in their dominant function.

I'm Ni-dominant, spiritually hyperactive, and have been diagnosed with narcolepsy before (which, hilariously, is treated with amphetamines just like ADHD...I'm unmedicated tho)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHippocampus
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 753
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #23709784 - 10/05/16 12:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

yeah said:

Honestly I didn't really read the article but all I know is that communication disorder in families will cause mental illness.




Unstable parents who lack parenting skills don't cause "mental illness" in their kids.

"mental illness" implies a biological disease - a malfunction of physiological processes




Not necessarily true.  https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Georgios_Sideridis2/publication/260876454_Attention-DeficitHyperactivity_Disorder_in_Young_Children_Predictors_of_Diagnostic_Stability/links/0deec5311e19c11cc6000000.pdf
Children diagnosed ADHD and years later followed up on and re-assessed.  Found that children whose home lives had reduced stress were more likely to no longer meet the criteria to be diagnosed ADHD anymore.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 12 hours, 7 minutes
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: Hippocampus] * 1
    #23720901 - 10/08/16 10:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

There's no scientific evidence the symptoms called "ADHD" are due to a biological defect.

Just like depression and anxiety, there's no evidence of biological malfunction or disease.

Your link reveals (arbitrary) checklists are used - not science.

Your link says

...psychologists assessed each child’s developmental skills by using cognitive,
language, and early academic standardized tests, reviewed day care and school
intake questionnaires, and obtained ratings of child behavior by using the
Behavior Assessment System.


These "tests" and questionnaires have nothing to do with blood chemistry, genes, or neurological malfunctioning.

They aren't based in science. People created them based on opinions on what they think is "normal".


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 12 hours, 7 minutes
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: zzripz]
    #23720934 - 10/08/16 10:52 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:

Although I know parents can destroy their kids, to really get to the roots we have to look directly down the line to what causes their abuse which in turn affects us etc etc etc





Would you agree that suffering is passed down thru the generations?

Look at how some people are still enraged about slavery.

Both Shakespeare and the Bible speak to "The sins of the father" being passed to his children

I think it's clear that parents pass their suffering to their kids.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHippocampus
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 753
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23721110 - 10/09/16 12:51 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
There's no scientific evidence the symptoms called "ADHD" are due to a biological defect.

Just like depression and anxiety, there's no evidence of biological malfunction or disease.

Your link reveals (arbitrary) checklists are used - not science.

Your link says

...psychologists assessed each child’s developmental skills by using cognitive,
language, and early academic standardized tests, reviewed day care and school
intake questionnaires, and obtained ratings of child behavior by using the
Behavior Assessment System.


These "tests" and questionnaires have nothing to do with blood chemistry, genes, or neurological malfunctioning.

They aren't based in science. People created them based on opinions on what they think is "normal".




eh, it's more science-y than you're making out with your comment.  for one, compared to what you've just said, ADHD is proven fucking fact.  What you said you've just pulled form your ass as a statement based on what?  Some evidence you have that you're not sharing.  I'm the first to admit that psychology is a soft science.  But they are doing a pretty good job of figuring this stuff out without knowing the biological etiology, which is what I'm assuming you meant by "blood chemistry, genes, or neurological malfunctioning."

Because there actually is chemistry proof.  Children with ADHD have significantly different brain chemicals than children without ADHD.  Their are clear genetic factors, again measured by hard science.  and there is in fact differences in brain structure. 
  http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/abs/10.1176/appi.ajp.163.2.316
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053811910002582
http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/v16/n11/abs/mp201097a.html
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00439-009-0694-x
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00439-009-0694-x

I could go on posting studies all night.  The last two are meta studies that include lists of other studies.  And each study has many of it's own sources that you could probably follow to learn about this.  Or, you know, you could cling to your dogmatic views about it, idc. 

But anyway, if you just meant that psychology is not well proven enough for you, then fine.  Now tell me what is a better alternative?  I mean, yes, we've decided what's "normal" and what's not.  What's not normal is a person who cannot focus, has trouble controlling their impulses, and/or can't sit still in their life to the point of it causing them distress or impairment.  Many many people have been helped through clinical intervention. 

Based off that study I first sent you about home life stress and ADHD diagnoses.  Here's a review of studies looking at parental effects in ADHD.  http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/B:CCFP.0000020190.60808.a4
the abstract brings up a good point that children with oppositional defiant disorder and conduct disorder are often comorbid with ADHD.  And it's difficult to tell if the parental training and therapy types are making those better, and not the ADHD.  I didn't read the whole review, so I don't know what results they found.  But it brings up another point.  Do you think the opositional defiant disorder is a real disorder?  Conduct disorder?  What about depression, bipolar.... schizophrenia.  Because all of these disorders fall under the umbrella of psychology, which you seem to be dismissing out of hand.  How do you account for that?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 12 hours, 7 minutes
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: Hippocampus] * 1
    #23721132 - 10/09/16 01:19 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

People who love sports show unique brain scans during the Super Bowl.

No human is being scientifically tested for depression or anxiety before drugs are given.

Yes, there are hundreds of "articles" - but nobody is being tested. Zero. Nada.

All of the experiences you mention are 100% real. Yes indeed! Very real.

But there is zero evidence that they are due to biological defects.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHippocampus
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 753
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23721162 - 10/09/16 02:33 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
People who love sports show unique brain scans during the Super Bowl.





seems plausible.  Those image and video machines are pretty good. 

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:No human is being scientifically tested for depression or anxiety before drugs are given




Yes, it's a correlation based on opinions of psychological syndromes in the first place.  So why would you accept brain scans showing that depressed people have different brain structures, activity and chemicals?  It all comes from people reporting and showing signs of being depressed.  Then those people are tested.  It's not to that level where biomarkers can be used to guide medical treatment of http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2013/06/13/191281803/could-brain-scans-reveal-the-right-treatment-for-depression
  It's more being used to see what's wrong with people's brains that have already been decided are not normal.  I mean, it even makes intuitive sense why grouping people who seem to have similar syndromes and then looking at their brain function would show they are similarly working the same.
But more empirical tests are certainly not to the level of being used to diagnose https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3581594/
Not to the level of medical testing.  Obviously even having medical vs psyche implies that they aren't on the same level. 

But these people experience real things and real suffering from their problems.  How should we address that if not using the best evidence at hand?

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
All of the experiences you mention are 100% real. Yes indeed! Very real.

But there is zero evidence that they are due to biological defects.




Well idk what your definition of evidence is.  But it's obviously higher than mine.  I don't even know why you believe your own statements.  There's still zero evidence for those.  And less than zero really.  Since my requirements for evidence fall below yours in a fundamental way, and all my accepting evidence is considered zero to you.  So in order to compare, we'd have to go negative on a scale.  You haven't provided any evidence of a single statement of yours.  It's a lot of blah blah blah.  So shall we call it, according to your scale, -150 evidence?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineyeah
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23721685 - 10/09/16 10:27 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

zzripz said:

Although I know parents can destroy their kids, to really get to the roots we have to look directly down the line to what causes their abuse which in turn affects us etc etc etc





Would you agree that suffering is passed down thru the generations?

Look at how some people are still enraged about slavery.

Both Shakespeare and the Bible speak to "The sins of the father" being passed to his children

I think it's clear that parents pass their suffering to their kids.




Ancestral knowledge, other memories, yes. It's all fact.


--------------------


Edited by yeah (10/09/16 10:28 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 12 hours, 7 minutes
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: Hippocampus]
    #23721815 - 10/09/16 11:19 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hippocampus said:

So why would you accept brain scans showing that depressed people have different brain structures, activity and chemicals?




- People who are sexually aroused show different scans that those not.

- People who have violent rage show different scans that those not.

- People who are sleep deprived show different scans that those not.

That different experiences create certain types of brain activity is true.

It's backwards rationale and not cause and effect that the brain causes the experience. 

Millions of people are being given serotonin drugs and we don't even measure serotonin levels in humans!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMorel Guy
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 15,577
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23722766 - 10/09/16 04:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

That is the truth.  Too much of a monoamine can make a person aggressive and psychotic.

I think generations in some families are getting better.  Being firm was very important ages ago because the population was small and life was more fragile.  Things have relaxed a good bit over the last half century.  Ignorance and starchy preservation is no longer the norm.  Education and encouraging the flame of individuals is perceived as better.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFlusH
Random person on Internet

Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 2,910
Loc: Bizzaro World
Last seen: 17 days, 1 hour
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23723458 - 10/09/16 07:58 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I have not read the last few posts, not sure if what I'm gonna suggest had been covered;

I'm also from a similar upbringing with a malignant narcissist mother and father.

Recently I've had very good success at overcoming childhood trauma with emdr therapy.  No drugs.

I hear it's not for everyone; but it is working for me. I've noticed I am no longer getting dissociated by some events that can trigger me.



Edited by FlusH (10/09/16 11:13 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFlusH
Random person on Internet

Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 2,910
Loc: Bizzaro World
Last seen: 17 days, 1 hour
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: yeah] * 1
    #23723461 - 10/09/16 07:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:
Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

zzripz said:

Although I know parents can destroy their kids, to really get to the roots we have to look directly down the line to what causes their abuse which in turn affects us etc etc etc





Would you agree that suffering is passed down thru the generations?

Look at how some people are still enraged about slavery.

Both Shakespeare and the Bible speak to "The sins of the father" being passed to his children

I think it's clear that parents pass their suffering to their kids.




Ancestral knowledge, other memories, yes. It's all fact.




Epigenetics!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: The root cause of our damaged hearts [Re: FlusH]
    #23727956 - 10/11/16 10:55 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

emdr sounds good, epigenetics is not a factor in any of this.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Heart Attack
( 1 2 all )
Frog 2,152 21 04/24/04 07:50 AM
by TheShroomHermit
* Silence is Golden (closer to the :heart:)
( 1 2 all )
Moonshoe 1,271 20 01/08/05 06:23 AM
by incubaby_421
* Greatest Questionnaire On Earth
( 1 2 all )
Kiafi 1,731 32 09/17/03 02:45 PM
by Static
* the root of suffering is desire
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Moonshoe 12,566 117 12/20/05 02:15 PM
by redgreenvines
* Mankind, a result of brain damage ? MAIA 1,285 16 07/24/04 03:19 AM
by MerlinBurb
* My heart infarction, God and the True Mushroom Asante 1,416 16 02/10/03 01:41 AM
by Asante
* questionnaire for atheists...(atheist only please)
( 1 2 3 all )
figmentfragment 4,239 42 10/06/10 02:56 PM
by 4896744
* Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool"....
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Lightningfractal 5,125 74 03/17/04 06:04 PM
by Lightningfractal

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
1,129 topic views. 0 members, 9 guests and 2 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.04 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 14 queries.