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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins



Registered: 10/14/13
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Help with bags and AA's 1
#23670910 - 09/23/16 12:26 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thought I'd ask this in the main forum for some answers.
I'm trying to start using bags again very soon but I need some answers first. I have a lot of questions but having trouble finding recent posts with specific answers.
Quote:
tombosley8 said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: 0.5 filter is better suited to bulk material but I have made them work. Just keep the sporeload on them down and they will he fine.
1.If I were sterilizing substrate and grain like muda's bottle recipe but in bags what filter micron should I be using?
2.And would keeping the bags in a tote reduce the sporeload when using .5 micron filter bags?
3-a.And how do you prepare the bags for sterilizing in a 75x sterilizer?
3-b.I thought I read that with AA's I do not need to worry about the bags touching the sides and I don't have to use tyvek sleeves, or was I just dreaming?
And here's some more...
4.Do the tops of the bags need to be folded accordion style with the filter facing down?
5.In order to create a vacuum, would I let sterilizer come down to 1 psi and then open the valve?
6-a.If I plan to store the bags for a day or two after sterilization, other than the sterilizer, where and how is the best way to store them? Will the vacuum created maintain with light handling and over a couple days?
7.Back to sterilizing, when stacking bags on top of each other do you separate each level with rings or similar? I know to separate the ones next to each other but can't find anything about separating levels
8.And after inoculation is a heat sealer still the standard way to close the bag?
9. How much air should I leave in the bag for colonization?
If I'm missing anything feel free to add whatever comes to mind.
I know that's a lot but I hope this can be a good place to get a lot of answers for people just starting with bags.
Just answer what you can and I will be very grateful.
I'd also like to know if doing just grains would be similar to bulk grain mix in terms of the sterilizing procedure...
Thanks
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sandy_vag
Keep Dreaming



Registered: 06/14/16
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Re: Help with bags and AA's [Re: tombosley8] 1
#23672412 - 09/23/16 09:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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1) I use 0,5 micron bags for spawn with no issues. 2) Keeping em in a tote would reduce sporeload in theory, but increase heat. 3)same way as any other sterilizer...not sure thats kinda a loaded question there 3.b) Bags will not melt in any cooker unless you run low on water. I fill my water up real high, about 2-3 inches under the filter patches. 4) Not real important on direction of filter but I like to keep it in the accordion not exposed 5)No to create a vacuum just dont do anything, leave the valve closed. I don't like to create a vacuum personally because i feel a sudden rush of air is more likely to bypas your filters. Unless you are talking about creating a vacuum in the bags, I don't pay attention to that personally, since cooling in the hood. Maybe someone else can chime in on that one. Cooling in a hood maybe not possible with a big ass 75x though. 6) I impulse seal after cooling in the hood, you can store any way you want this way. I think youd be fine though, maybe just put em in a clean trash bag or something. 7) No, that's not necesary but I like to stagger it like laying bricks if possible. I also use the small size bags so i get plenty of room in between, it's nothing to worry about with the smaller ones. 8) I heat seal, but innoc right through the bag (alc wipe) and seal the hole with a hot glue gun, I don't like fucking around with the tops of the bags trying to shoot into it. 9)As long as there is some airspace and the filter isnt blocked by the other side of the bag its fine.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
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Re: Help with bags and AA's [Re: sandy_vag]
#23673115 - 09/24/16 06:46 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I basically agree with
I let the vacuum form during cool down, and break it in front of the hood next day. thePC just sits at top of my staircase outside the room with hood in it. in winter, I put it in that room to help heat it up,but the hood isn't running until I'm ready to work.
I dont seperate layers, just bags/wall
impulse sealers are the shit if u have a hood.
the plenum of air will vary with ur technique, how strong ur hood is blowing,and the way u angle ur impulse sealer IME.
the bigger the plenum, the easier it is to shake/distribute ur grains.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins



Registered: 10/14/13
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My 75x is not near my hood and I would rather not have to move the big ass sterilizer in front of the hood everytime I open it.
I thought that I could somehow create a vacuum on the bags during the cooldown as they would with the tyvek sleeves in a pc.
I thought I read that the vacuum on the bags happens even without the tyvek sleeve when using AA's?
Or should I seal the bags before sterilization so that I can open the sterilizer in open air and store the bags until inoculation?
Simplified:
So the main question is how do I effectively create a vacuum on the bags during sterilaztion in order to be able to open my sterilizers in open air?
Or should I seal the bags before sterilization?
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


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Re: Help with bags and AA's [Re: tombosley8]
#23673996 - 09/24/16 01:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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U can either use tyvek sleeves or pre seal them, up to you
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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sandy_vag
Keep Dreaming



Registered: 06/14/16
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On sealing the "non presealable" bags, the owner of unicorn bags once told me that you can preseal the non-preseal bags (0.2 and 0.5 filters) by hooking up an air compressor to the lid of your sterilizer. Apparently the problem of bags popping actually happens on the cool down cycle. What he said was that after your cycle is complete, you match the pressure you were sterilizing at with an air compressor regulator so it cools down at the same pressure you cooked at. You could fairly easily rig this up with just a few pieces if you have an air compressor with a regulator. I haven't ever tried that but that's what he told me some of his commercial clients do.
I doubt you will really need to go that far though, just try a run unsealed with your sleeves and pop the toggle after it gets to 1 psi. If you have some kind of something that will keep the bags from puffing up there should be no problem. I use a couple of long strips of scotch tape to hold the accordion down.
Edited by sandy_vag (09/24/16 10:30 PM)
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sandy_vag
Keep Dreaming



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Re: Help with bags and AA's [Re: sandy_vag]
#23674417 - 09/24/16 04:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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And I hear you on moving the big ass 75x filled with bags, probably weighs about 100lbs loaded up with bags. There is a downfall to a big ass sterilizer.
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins



Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Help with bags and AA's [Re: sandy_vag]
#23680326 - 09/26/16 03:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I thought the .5 micron filters were presealable?
Isn't that why BL said to do it either way presealed or tyvek?
And would the run be the same if presealed or tyveked as far as popping the toggle at 1 psi and so on?
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
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Re: Help with bags and AA's [Re: tombosley8]
#23682335 - 09/27/16 07:09 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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.5 micron are presealable, I did a bunch the other day weight is never popped at 1psi, always wait until pressure is at 0psi regardless of seal
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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blindingleaf
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no toggle popping. tap dat ass in the morning yo
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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sandy_vag
Keep Dreaming



Registered: 06/14/16
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according to the unicorn people the 5.0 micron is the presealable one and the others are not. I've never tried presealing the 0.5 ones.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


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Re: Help with bags and AA's [Re: sandy_vag]
#23682586 - 09/27/16 09:13 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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mad_chef said he was pre-sealing the .2 and that it worked and they weren't blowing out. then he had a crazy contamination thing and stopped posting.
i always wondered if the two were related
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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sandy_vag
Keep Dreaming



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That's interesting, hehe. I would love to see someone try the compressor method though, just for the mad max factor.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: Help with bags and AA's [Re: sandy_vag]
#23683027 - 09/27/16 11:58 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I did 0.5 presealed and it worked. But it also felt sketchy as fuck.
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NumeroEno
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Re: Help with bags and AA's [Re: Pastywhyte] 1
#23683169 - 09/27/16 01:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've never pre sealed a bag. It's kind of irritating to fold them up with the tyvek but once you get the hang of it it's not so bad. Tyvek, accordion fold, and a little painter's tape and I don't have any problem with them blowing out or damage to the filter patch. I've been doing cube spawn in large .5 micron bags and edible sawdust in medium .2 micron bags because I have a bunch of extras. I always wait almost a full day to pop the vacuum, which I do in front of the flowhood with a clorox wipe wrapped around the stopcock. I just leave the PC sealed up until it's completely cool and get right to work.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins



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Re: Help with bags and AA's [Re: sandy_vag]
#23683218 - 09/27/16 01:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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well I did pop the toggle at 1 psi becuase I hadn't read that yet
so hopefully that dudn't cause any issues...
My next question....
I cooked 30 qts total substrate per sterilizer broken into 5 qt per bag(6 bags per sterilizer)
I cooked them for 4 hours at 17 psi and by the end it smelled a bit more burnt than I'm used to when sterilizing in qt containers.
Did I ruin the batch and how long should I cook a batch like this in the future?
here is the batch before sterilization(hadn't put the last two bags in yet)

Edited by tombosley8 (09/27/16 02:32 PM)
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins



Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Help with bags and AA's [Re: tombosley8]
#23687198 - 09/28/16 03:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said: well I did pop the toggle at 1 psi becuase I hadn't read that yet
so hopefully that dudn't cause any issues...
My next question....
I cooked 30 qts total substrate per sterilizer broken into 5 qt per bag(6 bags per sterilizer)
I cooked them for 4 hours at 17 psi and by the end it smelled a bit more burnt than I'm used to when sterilizing in qt containers.
Did I ruin the batch and how long should I cook a batch like this in the future?
here is the batch before sterilization(hadn't put the last two bags in yet)

Bump and edit:
So I tried the way I had the bags in the pic above(and cooked for 4 hours) and they ended up all cattywompus some inflated others just tilted down the side leaving the filter exposed during sterilization. , so this time I used some presto racks and other wire racks I had Laying around to create flat levels on top of the bags to help hold there shape and hold them in place....

Is there any problems with doing it this way and I am still unsure how long I should be sterilizing for. Is 4 hours overkill?
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins



Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Help with bags and AA's [Re: tombosley8]
#23691263 - 09/29/16 05:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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bump
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Help with bags and AA's [Re: tombosley8]
#23693111 - 09/30/16 06:46 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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A rack in the middle of the stacks is a good ideal, I sterilize bags for 2.5-3 hours
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins



Registered: 10/14/13
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Do you think the ones I cooked for 4 hours are still worth noccing up?
I thought they would need the excess time because of how packed each sterilizer is and how much sub is in each bag.
I have been sterilizing my qts for 2 hours so 4 hours seemed reasonable for 5 qts packed in and 30 qts total per sterilizer. with the qt containers I could only fit about 9 qts total substrate ...
SO do you think 3 hours will work still?
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