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just_curious
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Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results.
#23670885 - 09/23/16 12:19 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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On 9-11-16 I decided to attempt to dunk my grains with bleach. It was highly suggested by many members that my spawn may be bacterial, go I gave it a shot. Multiple people advised against it, old threads said I would work, etc. I'm in no way advising other growers to do this, or discrediting what others have said. I'm simply posting my results.
First, I googled the amount of bleach it takes to properly rid water of bacteria, and how long before it was safe to consume. The answer was 2 drops to 1 quart of water and it needed to sit for 30 minutes before drinking. I grabbed 2 colonized jars of grain and broke up the grains. Then, I grabbed a 1 quart jar, filled it with cold water, and placed 2 drops bleach in. With my grains already broken up, and my bleach wate mixture already made, I dumped the 1 quart of bleach water into the grain jars. The 1 quart of bleach water did the trick for the 2 grain jars. Then, I let the grains soak in the bleach water for 30 minutes, or the safe to consume time.
The day prior, I had put 2 quarts of Verm into a bag, and added water to it. I let the Verm soak up the water, and then poked a tiny hole in the bag, and squeezed the shit out of the bag releasing all excess water from the Verm. I loaded the now hydrated Verm into 2-1 quart jars, placed foil over the top, placed them in my pressure cooker, and set the lid on top (not locking it). I let the temp rise, checked the Verm with my thermometer until I seen it was at 170, and then cut off the heat. I let it stay that way for an hour. When I came back, the temp of the Verm jars were still good for pasturizing. I then let it cool.
Now I've got proper pasteurized hydrated Verm, and supposedly germ and bacteria free grains. I took one of those foil baking dishes you get at the store with the plastic lids, and began spawning. I used both quarts of grain, and added about 1.5 quarts of Verm and mixed it up as good as I could. After it was all mixed up, I put a thin top layer of Verm over it. I put the plastic lid on, poked 4 1/4 holes, and covered with micropore tape. I checked them out today to find this:

Let me know what you guys think. Obviously the only thing that the Verm is beneficial for is retaining the moisture, and the grains are giving it nutrients, but I think it will probably make a decent flush. In hindsight, I wish I would've tried adding like BRF, or dog food, or SOMETHING nutritious. Oh well. The polyfil was just put on right before posting this.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: just_curious] 1
#23671046 - 09/23/16 01:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bacteria in water sure. But bacteria in anything but water forms slimes and encapsulation or aggregates into large colonies and the internal members are protected.
Same reasons bleach wipes wouldn't sanitize an asshole but they sanitize a toilet seat
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Chk
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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: just_curious]
#23671073 - 09/23/16 01:18 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't know if it could eventually help for bacteria, but it certainly doesn't hurt mycélium much, recently (in novelty growth) i posted a pic where i soaked RGS in 10% bleach and dropped the grain onto a LC mycelial mat
It took only 48 hours to recover despite the bleach, which surprised me quite a lot...
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just_curious
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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: Chk]
#23671090 - 09/23/16 01:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well prior to this grow, I had 4 monotubs with CVG, that all contaminated with trich. And this one has had no issues so far. A part of me thinks it had to beneficial in SOME way.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: just_curious]
#23671918 - 09/23/16 06:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Confirmation bias. Bleach is likely more harmful to cubes than trich considering trich doesn't need a niche environment to grow and it's ubiquitous in nature
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just_curious
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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: bodhisatta]
#23673711 - 09/24/16 11:40 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Confirmation bias. Bleach is likely more harmful to cubes than trich considering trich doesn't need a niche environment to grow and it's ubiquitous in nature
I've read this quite a bit and honestly, I have to call b.s to a certain extent. I think that a heavy volume of bleach would absolutely be detrimental. But if you consider that I used 2 drops per 1000 ml, that is a tiny percentage. Especially considering that it's like 12-15 drops of water that makes up a ml. Water treatment plants use a small percentage of bleach to clean city water, that water comes to your house, and you use it for dunks (I realize this is different but it's still there).
All arguing aside, when I was reading all the comments about how it's bad for mycelium, I was indeed extremely worried. I followed through with it anyways, and I could see recovery the following day, and then legit colonization the day after that. So, as far as it being harmful, at an extremely tiny percentage, then I just don't think so. Again, we are talking like a fraction of 1 percent. Now, somebody makes a 10% bleach water solution...then yeah, absolutely.
However, I must say, that this is approximately my 5th different test run, and all point towards my grains not being bacterial, but I typically listen to what is said on here. I think maybe one time, my grains were bacterial, the tub contam'd, I didn't get it out in time, and the contam sporulated all over my room leading to multiple subsequent contaminations. But now since I have completely sanitized my room, and started testing some of the grains I've had for a while, it seems that it hasn't been the grains, but rather one of my first grows as the culprit.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: just_curious]
#23673828 - 09/24/16 12:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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mrmazdarx9
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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: bodhisatta]
#23673884 - 09/24/16 12:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Bacteria in water sure. But bacteria in anything but water forms slimes and encapsulation or aggregates into large colonies and the internal members are protected.
Same reasons bleach wipes wouldn't sanitize an asshole but they sanitize a toilet seat
And it stings like fuck
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just_curious
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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: mrmazdarx9]
#23680830 - 09/26/16 06:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Update. Things are looking decent. Lots more pins coming in from the looks of things. Hopefully they will continue to mature and not abort.
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just_curious
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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: just_curious]
#23686060 - 09/28/16 10:14 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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UPDATE: I got to them a little too late, but it pulled a decent flush. I've also included a photo of some cubes I found growing outside where I bury all my spent/contam'd subs. This were covered in spores and stems kind of mushy...hope they're still alright. I debated on taking tissue from them since their sort of wild. What do you guys think?
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JacobStorm
psychedelic cartel



Registered: 07/21/15
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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: just_curious]
#23686075 - 09/28/16 10:18 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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You can use those outdoor mush on agar no problem. I know RR got a lot of great oyster clusters from the wild doing that.
-------------------- Rogger Rabbits Mushroom growing videos Ethnobotanical garden forum Inocuole tea TEK azur said: If you like 6th grade results, then 6th grade projects are great.
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just_curious
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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: JacobStorm]
#23686085 - 09/28/16 10:22 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm just wondering what would be more potent. The indoor controlled grows, or the outdoors that thrived in contaminated conditions from a hole that has received tons of contaminated mycelium and still pulled through some how.
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JacobStorm
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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: just_curious]
#23686092 - 09/28/16 10:25 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I dont think contam would diminish potency. In fact the best trip I ever had was from my first cakes I ever did that ended up getting cobweb. 
Thats a interesting question tho.
-------------------- Rogger Rabbits Mushroom growing videos Ethnobotanical garden forum Inocuole tea TEK azur said: If you like 6th grade results, then 6th grade projects are great.
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just_curious
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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: JacobStorm]
#23686188 - 09/28/16 11:06 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I would think only the strongest of strong would survive the contam ridden environment. I have read threads that state natural shrooms are more potent than man cultivated shrooms. Idk the validity of that claim though. I've never eaten wild cubes, only psilocybe cyanesense.
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JacobStorm
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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: just_curious]
#23686623 - 09/28/16 01:12 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've never had a wild mush either. Hmm...
-------------------- Rogger Rabbits Mushroom growing videos Ethnobotanical garden forum Inocuole tea TEK azur said: If you like 6th grade results, then 6th grade projects are great.
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Mad Season
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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: JacobStorm]
#23686992 - 09/28/16 02:35 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Potency is entirely genetic based. Anybody who says they've experienced otherwise with strange techniques or something, are just seeing a correlation that has nothing to do with each other. Those particular genetics just happened to have utilized the substrate better.
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JacobStorm
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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: Mad Season]
#23687087 - 09/28/16 02:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- Rogger Rabbits Mushroom growing videos Ethnobotanical garden forum Inocuole tea TEK azur said: If you like 6th grade results, then 6th grade projects are great.
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Sporepoise
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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: JacobStorm]
#23748887 - 10/18/16 01:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Im in the same situation about to try this. your pictures give me hope for a decent flush thank you
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blackout


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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: Mad Season]
#23749084 - 10/18/16 02:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: Potency is entirely genetic based. Anybody who says they've experienced otherwise with strange techniques or something, are just seeing a correlation that has nothing to do with each other.
Have you ever read the theory by an old user called Mycofile who found grains which were consolidated for several months produced more potent fruits?
I have not tested this enough myself to be convinced, I am a poor judge of potency TBH. But I have had a few complaints of low doses being too strong from people I gave some to which were grown for several months before fruiting. I did not suggest to these people that they would be in anyway different either. I also did not fruit the same ones after a normal time of consolidation, so it could well have made no difference. It is the one claim I read that stood out. Mycofile was well respected and he was not claiming just a slight increase, but a very dramatic one, several times as potent.
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just_curious
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Re: Bleach dunk, grain/straight Verm grow results. [Re: blackout]
#23749186 - 10/18/16 02:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have not read that. I will say, I had a batch of grains that were colonizing for a very long time. I was scared to use them because the other jars I had used from the same batch contaminated. 2 tubs in a row. This lead me to believe I had dirty spawn. I sat on them and looked them over again and again and again before I said fuck it and then spawned anyways. The results were incredible. Not only were they incredible, the bruised so hard it was insane. Of all the mushrooms I have harvested (somewhere around 3 pounds since May), none bruised anywhere close to as significant as these.
You should check out the thread I made. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23718915
My avatar is a picture of that flush sent through Google deep dream lol
Edited by just_curious (10/18/16 03:00 PM)
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