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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Would you take the God pill?
    #23667948 - 09/22/16 12:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Here is the scenario.

Some new medical breakthrough has created a pharmaceutical pill with remarkable, unique effects:

Anyone who takes the pill will have an overwhelming mystical experience lasting only about five minutes, during which he or she will have a variety of stereotypically religious or spiritual/mystical experiences.

The experience is different for everyone, and when asked people usually just say they "cant explain it" or "there are no words to describe it" .

Others simply say they  "were touched by God" or "Filled with the Holy Spirit" or "felt Jesus come into my heart" or "was born again"  or "saved" or use other religious language and terms based on their cultural upbringing and personal life history.

During this time the person may laugh, sob or dance uncontrollably, or simply stare off into space.

After the high ends, the person is permanently, irreversibly changed.

From then on they will absolutely believe in the existence of God and the spiritual world. They believe everything is created, everything happens for a reason, and after they die their soul will go to the afterlife.

Even though they know they took the pill, they will forever after believe fully that what they experienced is real, no matter what anyone tells them, and will remain deeply religious for the rest of their lives.

The behavioural and lifestyle changes that come from this also vary, but are basically whatever you would associate with profound religious belief, such as church or temple attendance, meditation and prayer, reading sacred scriptures, giving to the poor, chanting, whatever.

The pill is also unique in that it only works once. After that first five minute experience, the drug will have no psychoactive effects no matter how much a person takes.

The pill has no side effects and is not associated with any health problems at all. Physically speaking, it is completely safe.

In other words, the pill causes an instant, irreversible conversion to religious belief.

Not any particular religion, just the basic conviction that there is a God, he has a plan for creation and there is an afterlife, and there is right and wrong / good and evil.

So my question is, if you had the option to take this chemical conversion treatment and become instantly and permanently deeply religious, would you do it?

A secondary question could be, if everyone in the world took this pill, would it make the world a better or worse place?

As an added detail, you know one more thing: In early clinical studies, no one who received the pill became violent as a result. This pill causes belief in God and the afterlife, but has not been shown to cause any kind of fighting, violence or aggression or suicide or self harm.

The pill has not been shown to make anyone more likely to hurt anyone or themselves.

It doesn't cause people to become any particular religion or to effect any specific theological ideas or dogmas.

Instead it induces a sort of generic religion based on the idea that there is a God, we are created by God, and there is some kind of afterlife and some kind of spiritual or karmic consequences to our behavior.

These convictions are absolute and unchangeable for anyone who has taken the pill, but it doesn't change any of their specific beliefs about things like homosexuality, abortion, politics or whatever.

The pill doesn't make people believe in the bible or the Quran or the particular doctrines of Islam or Hinduism or whatever.

It conveys a generic sort of universal religion that is not so much a set of ideas but a deep, unquestionable feeling that God exists and death is not the end.

So, would you or would you not take it, and why or why not?


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


Edited by Moonshoe (09/22/16 12:37 PM)


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe] * 1
    #23667957 - 09/22/16 12:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Sounds like a +4 on the Shulgin scale. I've hit it 4-5 times out of thousands of trips. Hell yes I'd take it.

Shulgin Rating Scale

Quote:


PLUS ONE, n. (+) The drug is quite certainly active. The chronology can be determined with some accuracy, but the nature of the drug's effects are not yet apparent.
PLUS TWO, n. (++) Both the chronology and the nature of the action of a drug are unmistakably apparent. But you still have some choice as to whether you will accept the adventure, or rather just continue with your ordinary day's plans (if you are an experienced researcher, that is). The effects can be allowed a predominant role, or they may be repressible and made secondary to other chosen activities.
PLUS THREE, n. (+++) Not only are the chronology and the nature of a drug's action quite clear, but ignoring its action is no longer an option. The subject is totally engaged in the experience, for better or worse.
PLUS FOUR, n. (++++) A rare and precious transcendental state, which has been called a "peak experience," a "religious experience," "divine transformation," a "state of Samadhi" and many other names in other cultures. It is not connected to the +1, +2, and +3 of the measuring of a drug's intensity. It is a state of bliss, a participation mystique, a connectedness with both the interior and exterior universes, which has come about after the ingestion of a psychedelic drug, but which is not necessarily repeatable with a subsequent ingestion of that same drug. If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end, of the human experiment.



— Alexander Shulgin, PIHKAL, pages 963–965


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23667962 - 09/22/16 12:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

First there are drugs that do that

Second religious experience is explained culturally.

A scientist will have scientific explanations, a Christain will have Christain, a Muslim will have Islamic and a Buddhist will have Buddhist.

Then there are the mixed up people who I would say are normal


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23667966 - 09/22/16 12:40 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

We've all taken the pill
Hence our existence


--------------------
Anyone got a lowpass filter in this biiiiash?


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23667972 - 09/22/16 12:42 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
First there are drugs that do that

Second religious experience is explained culturally.

A scientist will have scientific explanations, a Christain will have Christain, a Muslim will have Islamic and a Buddhist will have Buddhist.

Then there are the mixed up people who I would say are normal





What drugs do this?

In this scenario, the scientist would not have a scientific explanation. Thats what I am saying. You could give this drug to an atheist materialist scientist, and five minutes later he would be a full blown god believer.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: ModestMouse]
    #23667976 - 09/22/16 12:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ModestMouse said:
We've all taken the pill
Hence our existence




I wonder if the pill we have taken might not be the opposite- maybe we are existing this way because at some point we all took the "forget about God" or "forget you are God" pill, hence, our existence.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineSonicTitan
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23667977 - 09/22/16 12:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I wouldn't... People should have the freedom to choose to believe in a God and still have the ability to question belief at any moment. To take a pill that eliminates one of the most thought of questions humans have ever had is not progression. In fact I think that the world would be a far worse place.. Everyone would have their own idea of a god and believe in it with all their hearts, which could lead to far more radicalism and violence in the name of "god". Religion already breeds so much violence and destruction just imagine if everyone felt that strong about their own individual idea of god....


--------------------
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."



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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: SonicTitan]
    #23667981 - 09/22/16 12:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

But remember that was part of the scenario- this pill causes belief in God, but it has been shown not to increase violent tendencies. And it causes a generic belief in God, not a belief in one specific God.

So it wouldn't make one person believe in Yahweh and another in Allah and another in Shiva and then all fight about it, it just makes everyone have the same belief in the same generic idea "God".


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23667982 - 09/22/16 12:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Not possible

Some hallucinogens have the ability and chance of inquiring states of ecstasy.  This is the only state ever associated with God or any other religion.  It's the highest human emotion and can have infinite forms. 

You are assuming that there is a God to be experienced


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23667988 - 09/22/16 12:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

No I am not , I am assuming it would be possible to make a pill that would induce belief in God regardless of if God actually exists or not.

I think that IS possible, given enough time to develop the necessary technology and science.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23667996 - 09/22/16 12:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Human thoughts are not so concretely formed without intelligible input.  It would be brainwashing and or programming.  Chemically a drug cannot input believe but a pattern of function is possible and risky.

Just think if no human ever formed the idea of God how crazy the first would appear.  In psychology it is not a delusion if cultural correct.  So medical people have to be aware of culuttural uniformity.

To claim one is God or directly experienced God there would need to be cultural beliefs that support that possibility.  Usually people are crazy and think they are special.

Fuck sacred protection


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe] * 1
    #23668005 - 09/22/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I have experiences like these every time I take a 2 day excursion on dissociatives such as MXE of O-PCE.

Would I do it? Anytime. Wake me up at 5 AM for it.

There is NOTHING like a genuine, authentic GOD EXPERIENCE.

I feel deeply genuinely sorry for nihilist atheists.

I wish I could give them the experiences I get.

Not to believe but, oh my GOD, to EXPERIENCE THAT.

I am a Servant of God, on my knees before the Almighty. Words cannot express. If only people KNEW. If I talk about it I burst into tears by the pure joy of what I experience.

It is SO BEAUTIFUL.

It bends the fabric of reality to give me these experiences and loves me SO MUCH. It loves all of us so much exactly as we are.

You don't need to convert or adopt a doctrine just... FEEL.



It is SO BEAUTIFUL.

It no longer needs the excuse of a drug to come to me.

Oh if only you knew guys, if only you knew :makesmecry:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23668008 - 09/22/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
It would be brainwashing and or programming. 




Yes it would be. That would be the main reason I think some people would refuse the pill because it would brainwash/program them.

But i think a lot of people would take it because they would consider the effect desirable.

Like if there was a pill that would brainwash people to eat healthier or program me to be happier, most people would take it.

The question is just whether believing in God and an afterlife is something desirable to people, and if they consider being brainwashed worthwhile to attain that belief.

A major benefit would be people would lose fear of death, and might also feel less stress in life because they would feel God was in control of everything.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23668018 - 09/22/16 12:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I am all for exploring states of ecstasy.  Ecstasy states are ecstasy and deeply desirable but the associations with cultural context is not necessary.  I know my ancestors existed and I have seen places that do not require ecstasy to see. 

People associate good feelings with things that are material all the time.  That is why there is violence.  For security of a way of life you think you just have because it's hard to have the intelligence to replace or improve.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineSonicTitan
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23668123 - 09/22/16 01:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
But remember that was part of the scenario- this pill causes belief in God, but it has been shown not to increase violent tendencies. And it causes a generic belief in God, not a belief in one specific God.

So it wouldn't make one person believe in Yahweh and another in Allah and another in Shiva and then all fight about it, it just makes everyone have the same belief in the same generic idea "God".



So more of an unbiased belief in a higher power? I dont think I would take it. You would think there will be people who still will manipulate others with their ideas of god. Not fight about it but take advantage of others like they do now.
Sorry if I make no sense haha kinda fucked up right now


--------------------
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."



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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: SonicTitan]
    #23668149 - 09/22/16 01:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Nothing so pure as to not be corrupted.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23668178 - 09/22/16 01:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

no I would not take it as you specified it makes you believe. I'd take DMT which perhaps shows you god or an image of god, but does not force belief.. Why would I want to impair my logical functioning for the rest of my life?


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe] * 1
    #23668195 - 09/22/16 01:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

No, I wouldn't take the delusion pill.


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23668200 - 09/22/16 02:01 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

In my own way I believe I commune with God at times during my trips already. I don't believe everything I've read about with the various religions, but like Job I believe our faith is meant to be tested. Untested faith is at it's weakest. What you're proposing is a shortcut to something less than what people are capable of. On the other hand, it's also a shortcut for those without that capability, as well as a way for people to justify negative action. Religion, spirituality isn't for everyone and I think that's okay. There's enough faith in the world from the one's who have felt they've learned, to go around for everyone.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23668214 - 09/22/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
No, I wouldn't take the delusion pill.




you said it more succinctly.
I'll stick to consciousness expansion myself


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe] * 1
    #23668216 - 09/22/16 02:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

When I was at the peak of 300ug ALD52, I prayed that if God truly existed then we're coming for his ass and we were going to overthrow him and put his ass in jail for crimes against humanity, and he should be very, very afraid. I said that he was going to pay for every ounce of suffering ever inflicted on every living thing in the universe, and we were going to put him on trial, punish him, and replace him with real democracy, that he should be very, very afraid because we were coming for his ass and we are going to make him pay. So on and so forth.

I meant every word of it, and I still do.

So I dunno, like... it'd probably be more of the same on such a drug. God, if he exists, is an absolute dictator who must be overthrown, put on trial for crimes against humanity, and replaced with real democracy. IF he exists, which is a big if to begin with.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #23668218 - 09/22/16 02:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Is it your mental judgment that is tested?  I know I do not need a religion or a thought process to test my judgment.  If my idea is delusion it will fail.  If my idea is true then there is a good chance of floating by.  No promises.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23668240 - 09/22/16 02:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
No, I wouldn't take the delusion pill.





Funny how we are a psychedelics forum and we have members whio are appalled by the notion of having their consciousness expanded.

Do you trip, Clock_of_omens? Because shrooms and LSD do exactly that to a whole lot of people.


--------------------
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higher knowledge starts here


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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23668249 - 09/22/16 02:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hell no, I wouldn't take a God pill, dude.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: California]
    #23668256 - 09/22/16 02:17 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

California said:
Hell no, I wouldn't take a God pill, dude.




Not even IV or rectally?


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Asante]
    #23668303 - 09/22/16 02:33 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Funny how we are a psychedelics forum and we have members whio are appalled by the notion of having their consciousness expanded.

Do you trip, Clock_of_omens? Because shrooms and LSD do exactly that to a whole lot of people.




Forced belief isn't consciousness expansion. I'm pretty sure shrooms and LSD don't force you to believe in god.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23668307 - 09/22/16 02:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I would absolutely take it.

Ever since I took the red pill I've been wishing I had taken the blue pill.

And according to your conditions I don't even have to sell out my best friends in order to do so :wink:


Anyone claiming such a thing already exists is full of it. There is no such drug. There is a TDCS helmet that induces mystical experiences, but if you know how it works, then it's easy to remain skeptical of mysticism even if you use it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23668317 - 09/22/16 02:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

BTW cool thread I am stealing it for other forums


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23668348 - 09/22/16 02:48 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I find mystical experience richer than everyday experience or mental illness.  Although there is no clear separation of mystical experience and mental illness.  There is simply less suffering and who would not desire less suffering?


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23668398 - 09/22/16 03:02 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Funny how we are a psychedelics forum and we have members whio are appalled by the notion of having their consciousness expanded.

Do you trip, Clock_of_omens? Because shrooms and LSD do exactly that to a whole lot of people.




Forced belief isn't consciousness expansion. I'm pretty sure shrooms and LSD don't force you to believe in god.





Its not forced belief, its an experience that leads you to believe. And, you don't want that, which is OK.

But do you trip?


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Asante]
    #23668445 - 09/22/16 03:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Lol, if taking the pill necessarily results in belief, that is forced belief. I've taken shrooms once.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23668454 - 09/22/16 03:18 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Lol, if taking the pill necessarily results in belief, that is forced belief. I've taken shrooms once.




There is a chemistry to the functioning of the brain that forms belief.  They do force drugs on people who are out of social context in their thinking.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Asante]
    #23668466 - 09/22/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Funny how we are a psychedelics forum and we have members whio are appalled by the notion of having their consciousness expanded.

Do you trip, Clock_of_omens? Because shrooms and LSD do exactly that to a whole lot of people.




Forced belief isn't consciousness expansion. I'm pretty sure shrooms and LSD don't force you to believe in god.





Its not forced belief, its an experience that leads you to believe. And, you don't want that, which is OK.

But do you trip?




no he explicitly stated you would forever after believe, as if that was an effect of the drug itself. I wouldn't want that, especially given that its far more likely, if such a drug existed, that the belief it induces is false rather than genuine. If god is real -which some sort of deity may or may not be- surely one ought to approach that realization through logic and experience, rather than a forced change in beliefs induced (presumably) by some kind of brain damage?


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Invisible404
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23668470 - 09/22/16 03:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Those exist. They're called "psychedelics"
Not everyone will have a mystical experience, likely because of differences in chemistry and structure. Some people take acid or others and experience 'divine' states of consciousness, others like a couple friends of mine don't experience that at all.


Edited by 404 (09/22/16 03:37 PM)


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: 404]
    #23668481 - 09/22/16 03:26 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
Those exist. They're called "psychedelics"




wrong, psychedelics never forced me to believe in anything. I've encountered amoeboid gods and yet I still have no belief in their reality


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Ezuma]
    #23668487 - 09/22/16 03:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ezuma said:
Quote:

404 said:
Those exist. They're called "psychedelics"




wrong, psychedelics never forced me to believe in anything. I've encountered amoeboid gods and yet I still have no belief in their reality



But you believe you encountered emoboid gods

Not trying to nit pick but memory is a belief and prone to distortion.  Usually losing details


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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23668501 - 09/22/16 03:33 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Quote:

Ezuma said:
Quote:

404 said:
Those exist. They're called "psychedelics"




wrong, psychedelics never forced me to believe in anything. I've encountered amoeboid gods and yet I still have no belief in their reality



But you believe you encountered emoboid gods

Not trying to nit pick but memory is a belief and prone to distortion.  Usually losing details




lol I encountered colored rather beautiful hallucinations which in the mind state I identified as amoeboid gods, in the same way I saw skeletons in the clouds. Neither of these were 'real' in the sense of physical manifestations affecting or persisting in consensus reality or even my own psyche post drug-haze. Therefore it seems most logical to conclude they are not what we tend to consider 'real' for practical purposes. They may be, or a distortion of some real force(s) or entity(ies) but I have too little reason to assert that

I merely say 'amoeboid god' for convenience of description, as it gives a fair approximation of what I experienced but worth clarifying I suppose


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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Ezuma]
    #23668537 - 09/22/16 03:48 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, some don't experience it, some do. I happen to be one of those people that are prone to mystical experiences. So the locus coeruleus has norepinephine circuits in and is connected to parts of the brain that deal with learning and memory, and activations of those receptors may alter blood flow and dopamine release in others. The out of body experience may be changes in the temporoparietal junction, both parts of the default mode network that have serotonin activity depressed, if that information is still current.


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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: 404]
    #23668549 - 09/22/16 03:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I think I am prone to the mystical experience, I just don't see it as a direct and literal 'truth' in the traditional sense of the word


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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Ezuma] * 1
    #23668627 - 09/22/16 04:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

So I've posted this on two other forums and 1 facebook group and I keep getting the same basic response in a variety of forms:

"I believe you're referring to shrooms ."

"smoke DMT, this IS the 'God' pill.."

"Do a thumbprint if you want to meet god"

This just simply isn't true. I've smoked Scarface-sized piles of DMT in combination with 1/4oz of mushrooms and 200ug of LSD and did not meet God. Sorry to rain on the psychedelics-are-the-path-to-enlightenment-for-everyone parade. There is something similar to this pill called the God Helmet which actually exists. It works via stimulating specific areas of the brain in particular patterns with weak electric currents. It reliably produces mystical experiences. If you know how it works, though, you can still be a skeptic. Same goes for DMT. If you understand neurobiology, the experience becomes explainable in ways that don't necessitate the invocation of spirits, gods, elves, or alternate dimensions.


Edited by morrowasted (09/22/16 04:37 PM)


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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23668656 - 09/22/16 04:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Just because you don't experience certain mystical experiences while on psychedelics doesn't mean they don't trigger those experiences for other people. Ive had god experiences from low to moderate doses of various serotonergic hallucinogens so clearly they hold the potential to evoke these responses. There's no one dose fits all and not all are prone to it.


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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Ezuma]
    #23668659 - 09/22/16 04:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

While on heavy doses of psychedelics and doing nitrous oxide I would occasionally have an experience where I felt I was surrounded by people and they yell at me "GOD IS REAL!!" and then some unexplainable shit would happen. 

These experiences were much more "real" than the other experiences/epiphanies from the nitrous/psyche combo.

I have a friend who VERY rarely trips.  We were hanging out on 2c-B and I gave him 2 chargers in a balloon and I went to the bathroom.

When I came out he was standing at the kitchen sink washing the balloon with a blank kind of scared/confused look on his face. 

A little bit later I told him what happened and he told me he was washing his sins off/away.  He's done some bad things in his life.  He won't trip anymore.  :shrug:

I've never had "GOD IS REAL!" experiences on DMT, but it certainly appears to show heavenly realms including a place that seemed like a hallway made of light to a school for spirits.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23668662 - 09/22/16 04:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
If you understand neurobiology, the experience becomes explainable in ways that don't necessitate the invocation of spirits, gods, elves, or alternate dimensions.




Exactly, which is why Moonshoe's pill results in forced belief. These people think that just because psychedelics led them to believe in god, that says something generally. It doesn't.


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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: 404]
    #23668664 - 09/22/16 04:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I agree man, Ive had "god" like trips and purely recreational ones too at the same doses. Its irrelevant other than how you mentally feel at the time really. Sometimes its just a feeling inside and others its something thats manifesting infront of you visually. That doesnt mean I am religious but it causes me to always keep an agnostic view on alot of things in life.


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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: 404] * 1
    #23668665 - 09/22/16 04:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
Just because you don't experience certain mystical experiences while on psychedelics doesn't mean they don't trigger those experiences for other people.




That isn't what he was saying. He was saying those experiences could have alternate explanations.


Quote:

There's no one dose fits all and not all are prone to it.




That's exactly what OP is talking about, which is why it would be forced belief.


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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23668678 - 09/22/16 04:37 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

He's saying it can be trigered by electrical stimulation in certain areas of the brain, and to a degree, he is right. Electricity is one part of the responses down the axons, and the synapses release specific neurotransmitters which alter blood flow and dopaminergic responses in other areas. The feeling of god is also something that seems to happen in some people in regards to temporal lobe epilepsy - one of the regions i mentioned before


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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #23668701 - 09/22/16 04:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MrBlueYoMind said:
While on heavy doses of psychedelics and doing nitrous oxide I would occasionally have an experience where I felt I was surrounded by people and they yell at me "GOD IS REAL!!" and then some unexplainable shit would happen. 

These experiences were much more "real" than the other experiences/epiphanies from the nitrous/psyche combo.

I have a friend who VERY rarely trips.  We were hanging out on 2c-B and I gave him 2 chargers in a balloon and I went to the bathroom.

When I came out he was standing at the kitchen sink washing the balloon with a blank kind of scared/confused look on his face. 

A little bit later I told him what happened and he told me he was washing his sins off/away.  He's done some bad things in his life.  He won't trip anymore.  :shrug:

I've never had "GOD IS REAL!" experiences on DMT, but it certainly appears to show heavenly realms including a place that seemed like a hallway made of light to a school for spirits.


And I'm not saying that understanding the neurobiology automatically means that God and those spirits don't exist. I'm just saying that taking psychedelics doesn't FORCE YOU to believe that they are real. It's possible to come out of the experience and think, "Wow, that was one awesome hallucination caused by serotonergic neurons in my parahippocampus being forced to activate at a frequency much higher than that at which they would activate in response to the same electrical input during a sober state. My brain was clearly struggling to send useful output information to my visual cortex because so many episodic memory pathways were firing simultaneously."

Or you could come out of that experience and say, "Wow, I just peeked behind the veil into the Kingdom of God."

And who knows, maybe there is a Kingdom of God "hidden behind a veil", and maybe that veil is made out this system composed of a set of episodic memories that are retrieved at a particular frequency. Or something.

All I am saying is that if you take psychedelics and think you've found the True Path to Enlightenment for Everyone, maybe there's a little bit of irony when you accuse others of being closed-minded.


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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23668715 - 09/22/16 04:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The brain is 40 watts.  Some shit seems way beyond what 40 watts can ever experience.  I honestly think those 40 watts are designed to block reality.  Carry on with their own delusion of self and survival.


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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23668728 - 09/22/16 05:02 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
The brain is 40 watts.  Some shit seems way beyond what 40 watts can ever experience.  I honestly think those 40 watts are designed to block reality.  Carry on with their own delusion of self and survival.



Lol this is extra dumb. First of all it's 20watts. Second of all you realize that the 20 watt brain is orders of magnitude more computationally powerful than a 250 watt computer right? It's about complexity not power.


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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23668748 - 09/22/16 05:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
The brain is 40 watts.  Some shit seems way beyond what 40 watts can ever experience.  I honestly think those 40 watts are designed to block reality.  Carry on with their own delusion of self and survival.



Lol this is extra dumb. First of all it's 20watts. Second of all you realize that the 20 watt brain is orders of magnitude more computationally powerful than a 250 watt computer right? It's about complexity not power.




12 watts


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


Edited by Morel Guy (09/22/16 05:14 PM)


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23668785 - 09/22/16 05:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Fuck naw, man. That's some straight up mark of the beast shit. :awedisgust:


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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23668972 - 09/22/16 06:26 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
The brain is 40 watts.  Some shit seems way beyond what 40 watts can ever experience.  I honestly think those 40 watts are designed to block reality.  Carry on with their own delusion of self and survival.



Lol this is extra dumb. First of all it's 20watts. Second of all you realize that the 20 watt brain is orders of magnitude more computationally powerful than a 250 watt computer right? It's about complexity not power.




12 watts



http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/JacquelineLing.shtml


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: morrowasted]
    #23669002 - 09/22/16 06:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yet to know what we know exactly or what it actually is.  Also do drugs change this?  LSD feels like more wattage!


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