Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Would you take the God pill?
    #23667948 - 09/22/16 12:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Here is the scenario.

Some new medical breakthrough has created a pharmaceutical pill with remarkable, unique effects:

Anyone who takes the pill will have an overwhelming mystical experience lasting only about five minutes, during which he or she will have a variety of stereotypically religious or spiritual/mystical experiences.

The experience is different for everyone, and when asked people usually just say they "cant explain it" or "there are no words to describe it" .

Others simply say they  "were touched by God" or "Filled with the Holy Spirit" or "felt Jesus come into my heart" or "was born again"  or "saved" or use other religious language and terms based on their cultural upbringing and personal life history.

During this time the person may laugh, sob or dance uncontrollably, or simply stare off into space.

After the high ends, the person is permanently, irreversibly changed.

From then on they will absolutely believe in the existence of God and the spiritual world. They believe everything is created, everything happens for a reason, and after they die their soul will go to the afterlife.

Even though they know they took the pill, they will forever after believe fully that what they experienced is real, no matter what anyone tells them, and will remain deeply religious for the rest of their lives.

The behavioural and lifestyle changes that come from this also vary, but are basically whatever you would associate with profound religious belief, such as church or temple attendance, meditation and prayer, reading sacred scriptures, giving to the poor, chanting, whatever.

The pill is also unique in that it only works once. After that first five minute experience, the drug will have no psychoactive effects no matter how much a person takes.

The pill has no side effects and is not associated with any health problems at all. Physically speaking, it is completely safe.

In other words, the pill causes an instant, irreversible conversion to religious belief.

Not any particular religion, just the basic conviction that there is a God, he has a plan for creation and there is an afterlife, and there is right and wrong / good and evil.

So my question is, if you had the option to take this chemical conversion treatment and become instantly and permanently deeply religious, would you do it?

A secondary question could be, if everyone in the world took this pill, would it make the world a better or worse place?

As an added detail, you know one more thing: In early clinical studies, no one who received the pill became violent as a result. This pill causes belief in God and the afterlife, but has not been shown to cause any kind of fighting, violence or aggression or suicide or self harm.

The pill has not been shown to make anyone more likely to hurt anyone or themselves.

It doesn't cause people to become any particular religion or to effect any specific theological ideas or dogmas.

Instead it induces a sort of generic religion based on the idea that there is a God, we are created by God, and there is some kind of afterlife and some kind of spiritual or karmic consequences to our behavior.

These convictions are absolute and unchangeable for anyone who has taken the pill, but it doesn't change any of their specific beliefs about things like homosexuality, abortion, politics or whatever.

The pill doesn't make people believe in the bible or the Quran or the particular doctrines of Islam or Hinduism or whatever.

It conveys a generic sort of universal religion that is not so much a set of ideas but a deep, unquestionable feeling that God exists and death is not the end.

So, would you or would you not take it, and why or why not?


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


Edited by Moonshoe (09/22/16 12:37 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe] * 1
    #23667957 - 09/22/16 12:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Sounds like a +4 on the Shulgin scale. I've hit it 4-5 times out of thousands of trips. Hell yes I'd take it.

Shulgin Rating Scale

Quote:


PLUS ONE, n. (+) The drug is quite certainly active. The chronology can be determined with some accuracy, but the nature of the drug's effects are not yet apparent.
PLUS TWO, n. (++) Both the chronology and the nature of the action of a drug are unmistakably apparent. But you still have some choice as to whether you will accept the adventure, or rather just continue with your ordinary day's plans (if you are an experienced researcher, that is). The effects can be allowed a predominant role, or they may be repressible and made secondary to other chosen activities.
PLUS THREE, n. (+++) Not only are the chronology and the nature of a drug's action quite clear, but ignoring its action is no longer an option. The subject is totally engaged in the experience, for better or worse.
PLUS FOUR, n. (++++) A rare and precious transcendental state, which has been called a "peak experience," a "religious experience," "divine transformation," a "state of Samadhi" and many other names in other cultures. It is not connected to the +1, +2, and +3 of the measuring of a drug's intensity. It is a state of bliss, a participation mystique, a connectedness with both the interior and exterior universes, which has come about after the ingestion of a psychedelic drug, but which is not necessarily repeatable with a subsequent ingestion of that same drug. If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end, of the human experiment.



— Alexander Shulgin, PIHKAL, pages 963–965


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMorel Guy
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 15,577
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23667962 - 09/22/16 12:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

First there are drugs that do that

Second religious experience is explained culturally.

A scientist will have scientific explanations, a Christain will have Christain, a Muslim will have Islamic and a Buddhist will have Buddhist.

Then there are the mixed up people who I would say are normal


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleModestMouse
IM WALKIN ON SUNSHINE
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 19,227
Loc: Upstate
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23667966 - 09/22/16 12:40 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

We've all taken the pill
Hence our existence


--------------------
Anyone got a lowpass filter in this biiiiash?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23667972 - 09/22/16 12:42 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
First there are drugs that do that

Second religious experience is explained culturally.

A scientist will have scientific explanations, a Christain will have Christain, a Muslim will have Islamic and a Buddhist will have Buddhist.

Then there are the mixed up people who I would say are normal





What drugs do this?

In this scenario, the scientist would not have a scientific explanation. Thats what I am saying. You could give this drug to an atheist materialist scientist, and five minutes later he would be a full blown god believer.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: ModestMouse]
    #23667976 - 09/22/16 12:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ModestMouse said:
We've all taken the pill
Hence our existence




I wonder if the pill we have taken might not be the opposite- maybe we are existing this way because at some point we all took the "forget about God" or "forget you are God" pill, hence, our existence.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSonicTitan
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/17/16
Posts: 24,068
Last seen: 5 hours, 10 minutes
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23667977 - 09/22/16 12:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I wouldn't... People should have the freedom to choose to believe in a God and still have the ability to question belief at any moment. To take a pill that eliminates one of the most thought of questions humans have ever had is not progression. In fact I think that the world would be a far worse place.. Everyone would have their own idea of a god and believe in it with all their hearts, which could lead to far more radicalism and violence in the name of "god". Religion already breeds so much violence and destruction just imagine if everyone felt that strong about their own individual idea of god....


--------------------
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: SonicTitan]
    #23667981 - 09/22/16 12:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

But remember that was part of the scenario- this pill causes belief in God, but it has been shown not to increase violent tendencies. And it causes a generic belief in God, not a belief in one specific God.

So it wouldn't make one person believe in Yahweh and another in Allah and another in Shiva and then all fight about it, it just makes everyone have the same belief in the same generic idea "God".


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMorel Guy
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 15,577
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23667982 - 09/22/16 12:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Not possible

Some hallucinogens have the ability and chance of inquiring states of ecstasy.  This is the only state ever associated with God or any other religion.  It's the highest human emotion and can have infinite forms. 

You are assuming that there is a God to be experienced


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23667988 - 09/22/16 12:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

No I am not , I am assuming it would be possible to make a pill that would induce belief in God regardless of if God actually exists or not.

I think that IS possible, given enough time to develop the necessary technology and science.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMorel Guy
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 15,577
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23667996 - 09/22/16 12:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Human thoughts are not so concretely formed without intelligible input.  It would be brainwashing and or programming.  Chemically a drug cannot input believe but a pattern of function is possible and risky.

Just think if no human ever formed the idea of God how crazy the first would appear.  In psychology it is not a delusion if cultural correct.  So medical people have to be aware of culuttural uniformity.

To claim one is God or directly experienced God there would need to be cultural beliefs that support that possibility.  Usually people are crazy and think they are special.

Fuck sacred protection


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAsante
Mage
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe] * 1
    #23668005 - 09/22/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I have experiences like these every time I take a 2 day excursion on dissociatives such as MXE of O-PCE.

Would I do it? Anytime. Wake me up at 5 AM for it.

There is NOTHING like a genuine, authentic GOD EXPERIENCE.

I feel deeply genuinely sorry for nihilist atheists.

I wish I could give them the experiences I get.

Not to believe but, oh my GOD, to EXPERIENCE THAT.

I am a Servant of God, on my knees before the Almighty. Words cannot express. If only people KNEW. If I talk about it I burst into tears by the pure joy of what I experience.

It is SO BEAUTIFUL.

It bends the fabric of reality to give me these experiences and loves me SO MUCH. It loves all of us so much exactly as we are.

You don't need to convert or adopt a doctrine just... FEEL.



It is SO BEAUTIFUL.

It no longer needs the excuse of a drug to come to me.

Oh if only you knew guys, if only you knew :makesmecry:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23668008 - 09/22/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
It would be brainwashing and or programming. 




Yes it would be. That would be the main reason I think some people would refuse the pill because it would brainwash/program them.

But i think a lot of people would take it because they would consider the effect desirable.

Like if there was a pill that would brainwash people to eat healthier or program me to be happier, most people would take it.

The question is just whether believing in God and an afterlife is something desirable to people, and if they consider being brainwashed worthwhile to attain that belief.

A major benefit would be people would lose fear of death, and might also feel less stress in life because they would feel God was in control of everything.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMorel Guy
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 15,577
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23668018 - 09/22/16 12:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I am all for exploring states of ecstasy.  Ecstasy states are ecstasy and deeply desirable but the associations with cultural context is not necessary.  I know my ancestors existed and I have seen places that do not require ecstasy to see. 

People associate good feelings with things that are material all the time.  That is why there is violence.  For security of a way of life you think you just have because it's hard to have the intelligence to replace or improve.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSonicTitan
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/17/16
Posts: 24,068
Last seen: 5 hours, 10 minutes
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23668123 - 09/22/16 01:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
But remember that was part of the scenario- this pill causes belief in God, but it has been shown not to increase violent tendencies. And it causes a generic belief in God, not a belief in one specific God.

So it wouldn't make one person believe in Yahweh and another in Allah and another in Shiva and then all fight about it, it just makes everyone have the same belief in the same generic idea "God".



So more of an unbiased belief in a higher power? I dont think I would take it. You would think there will be people who still will manipulate others with their ideas of god. Not fight about it but take advantage of others like they do now.
Sorry if I make no sense haha kinda fucked up right now


--------------------
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMorel Guy
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 15,577
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: SonicTitan]
    #23668149 - 09/22/16 01:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Nothing so pure as to not be corrupted.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEzuma
Gontish Wizard
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23668178 - 09/22/16 01:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

no I would not take it as you specified it makes you believe. I'd take DMT which perhaps shows you god or an image of god, but does not force belief.. Why would I want to impair my logical functioning for the rest of my life?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineclock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them
I'm a teapot

Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe] * 1
    #23668195 - 09/22/16 01:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

No, I wouldn't take the delusion pill.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblelarry.fisherman
shoulda died already
I'm a teapot

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23668200 - 09/22/16 02:01 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

In my own way I believe I commune with God at times during my trips already. I don't believe everything I've read about with the various religions, but like Job I believe our faith is meant to be tested. Untested faith is at it's weakest. What you're proposing is a shortcut to something less than what people are capable of. On the other hand, it's also a shortcut for those without that capability, as well as a way for people to justify negative action. Religion, spirituality isn't for everyone and I think that's okay. There's enough faith in the world from the one's who have felt they've learned, to go around for everyone.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEzuma
Gontish Wizard
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
Re: Would you take the God pill? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23668214 - 09/22/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
No, I wouldn't take the delusion pill.




you said it more succinctly.
I'll stick to consciousness expansion myself


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Why do nuclear weapons still exist?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
xbloodwhipx 3,094 70 03/10/18 02:36 PM
by Morel Guy
* Chronological X-Men Drink_Punk_Soda 403 0 09/28/05 01:17 AM
by Drink_Punk_Soda
* Sometimes I fight with my computer. Little Shroom 2,261 17 07/24/03 03:45 PM
by oDin
* Pill may help people overcome fears LearyfanS 1,114 10 11/11/03 06:56 PM
by RunDMT
* tripping an computers - word recognizes psilocyban Malachi 1,548 11 09/13/03 03:08 AM
by Glacius
* Two Experiences With Two Asian Women Ped 2,945 17 06/26/03 08:38 AM
by Ped
* Ghost experiences
( 1 2 3 all )
Dreamer987 6,950 45 08/24/18 01:07 PM
by mendocino_beano
* Addicted to your computer Anonymous 2,553 19 06/09/13 03:20 PM
by Eggtimer

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Entire Staff
671 topic views. 7 members, 85 guests and 98 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.028 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 16 queries.