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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
Fucked off to the pub
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Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23842592 - 11/17/16 05:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:hugitout: when I found Treelandia I will grow many kratoms and it shall be the refuge for it's queen and all the commoners who clearly can't afford to bribe doctors. I mean... afford good ones...


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          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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InvisibleAmanita86
OTD Keymaster
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Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: CookieCrumbs] * 1
    #23842639 - 11/17/16 05:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

That's the same way I've tried to explain it.  I don't get "high".. I take one scoop before work, probably less than a gram and it cuts out the 'distortion' and quiets the pain nerves in my back that...can't be fixed.  There's no fixing my back, but kratom quiets it down and I'm still clear headed to work.

Unlike vicodin, or percocets that just get me high enough to not care about pain.  They do nothing to kill the pain for me, I can still feel it, I just get high enough to not care.. and then walk around obviously pie eyed and trashed.. very inappropriate in a work setting.

Plus pills always leave me with a distinct feeling that they are doing damage to my organs etc.  Never got that with kratom.  Infact I hear it's loaded with antioxidants etc..

It's true what they say, it's all about control and money.  Healing a person shouldnt be about 'profit and business'.. it's a conflict of interest even if the doctor you do find doesn't have shit morals..

It's so simple, but as always, someone has to step in and make it difficult..


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:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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OfflineDr. P. Silocybin
Would you like fries with that?
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Registered: 09/09/08
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Amanita86] * 1
    #23843882 - 11/18/16 12:11 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

This is what I wrote them,

Dear DEA,

I would like to share my experiences with the herb Kratom with you. It was first introduced to me as a recreational substance. I was looking for an alternative social lubricant to alcohol so I bought an ounce of high quality Kratom, about 10 doses. I had that ounce for more than two years. In my opinion, as a recreational substance, kratom has little value. Eating 2-5 grams of powdered leaf is no easy task and the reward is minimal compared to most other drugs. Even though I had it in my possession for two years, after initially trying it out a few times, I did not use it to get high.

In June of this year I was involved in an accident that left me hospitalized with a broken ankle, femur, and spine. By the time I recovered enough to walk I had developed a dependency to the pharmaceutical opiates I was prescribed. Quitting an opiate habit is not easy. When the doctors cut me off I could not sleep without the pills. I felt shaky, sick, both physically and mentally drained. I don't think I experienced even 1/10th of the withdrawals a more serious opiate addict would go through, but it was too much for me. I found some people who had some pills. Without the script anymore I had to make them last, so I shot them up using an insulin syringe. When I couldn't find pills I found some people with black tar heroin that I smoked. This went on for awhile, stopping then going back, then stopping, and going back again.

If you think my story is an anomaly, it is not. The 2012 National Survey on Drug Use and Health, conducted and published by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, estimated that there were 2.1 million Americans abusing prescription opiates and 467,000 heroin addicts, nearly double the number of heroin addicts estimated by the survey in 2005. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in 2010 alone there were 13,652 accidental deaths from prescription opiates, and 2,789 fatal heroin overdoses. In this context, the fact that the DEA sites "15 kratom-related deaths between 2014 and 2016," as reason for making the plant schedule 1, seems absurd. And becomes even more absurd when it is realized that all of those deaths involved other drugs. There has never been a single documented case of fatal overdose from kratom alone. I will repeat that, Kratom alone has never killed anyone. Compare that to the 16,441 deaths from pharmaceutical opiates and heroin in just one year, and explain to me how it is that you think kratom is the problem.

Kratom helped me quit opiates. Kratom made the withdrawals more manageable. I might have been able to quit without Kratom, but I don't think I would have stayed off it. I still have considerable pain from my back injury. Not all the time, but some days it can be debilitating. I would have likely turned back to opiates, but instead I use Kratom a few times a week to manage this chronic pain. Kratom is as excellent a pain reliever as there is. It is far less narcotic/intoxicating than opiates, even low dose opiates. I can eat a couple grams of kratom and go about my day feeling sober, healthy, and without pain. On top of these benefits, it is nowhere near as addictive as opiates. I can take kratom many days in a row and then stop with no ill effects. Conversely, if I had 3 Oxycodone I would probably just eat the first, but then snort the second... and by the time I was looking at my third and final pill I would be sorely tempted to inject it. I have never felt like a fiend for Kratom.

Please do not take this vital medicine from me, the thousands of other people who it has helped, and the millions it could help in the future. Kratom needs to be promoted not prohibited. The only logical reason you could possibly have for making Kratom schedule 1 is to prevent it from competing against the pharmaceutical opiates. This is absolutely shameful. Kratom has great medicinal benefits, and a low potential for abuse. Just like a number of other drugs you have listed as schedule 1. Why are you prohibiting research into these potentially useful substances? Why prohibit medical research into Any substance?

Do away entirely with the classification of schedule 1 drugs. Represent the American people, not the pharmaceutical drug lobby.


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
Stranger in Paradise
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Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 2,994
Loc: so many roads
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Dr. P. Silocybin]
    #23844280 - 11/18/16 06:40 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Well put, Phil and Amanitas.. it seems we all have similar stories and reading others accounts stirs great empathy, recognition that the story is our own.

  This is all really getting me down.  I'm sure everyone here is aware of the deadline and is on it.. I'm at the point of educating and recruiting friends and family to write.  Not feeling too optimistic..


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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OfflineLuSiD enthusiast
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/13
Posts: 4,325
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: birdeatingspider] * 2
    #23844871 - 11/18/16 10:45 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I'm gonna type up a comment for them after work today. Kinda ashamed it's taken me this long, but late>never.

Probably gonna make mine short and to the point. I could easily spend 10 hours ripping into them, but i want to try and just get the few key points in and maybe a jab at the dea and call it there.


--------------------
I'm addicted to coke, weed, booze, ludes and speed.
Not LSD, you can't get addicted to LSD, it was built by scientists.

I ain't got no demons that gonna get woke.


In erowid we trust.

Just take your damn pills and don't ask any questions, you'll be fine.


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Offlinemusiclover420
psychonaut
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Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: LuSiD enthusiast]
    #23844919 - 11/18/16 10:57 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LuSiD enthusiast said:
I'm gonna type up a comment for them after work today. Kinda ashamed it's taken me this long, but late>never.

Probably gonna make mine short and to the point. I could easily spend 10 hours ripping into them, but i want to try and just get the few key points in and maybe a jab at the dea and call it there.




I have been slacking too but I plan on spending a few days writing up something solid to submit before the deadline.


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Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: musiclover420]
    #23845082 - 11/18/16 11:59 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

When is the deadline? I knew I wrote something but Idr if I submitted it. Hard to keep track in my mind what I did during the ban panic and this comment period.

I suppose I'll write another electronic comment about like how I think they should regulate it at a level below traditional opiates. Try to stroke their ego and sound like I'm on their side looking at it only from a medical science perspective.

I think I can do that if I can manage to not call them dumbass dickfucks :lol:


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23845088 - 11/18/16 12:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Dec 1st I believe so we should submit them in the next week or so to be safe.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
Fucked off to the pub
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Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: musiclover420]
    #23845099 - 11/18/16 12:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thought so, thanks for clarifying :hatsoff:


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Registered: 11/06/12
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23845122 - 11/18/16 12:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

No problemo :cheers:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineLuSiD enthusiast
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/13
Posts: 4,325
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23845283 - 11/18/16 01:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
When is the deadline? I knew I wrote something but Idr if I submitted it. Hard to keep track in my mind what I did during the ban panic and this comment period.

I suppose I'll write another electronic comment about like how I think they should regulate it at a level below traditional opiates. Try to stroke their ego and sound like I'm on their side looking at it only from a medical science perspective.

I think I can do that if I can manage to not call them dumbass dickfucks :lol:



There was a thread on reddit (it may have been posted earlier in this thread too) that had tips on writing. I don't care if you are an English teacher, READ IT!!!

It has tips that aren't even grammar specific. One key thing was you need to avoid medical claims. They said it is crucial not to use words like "treat, replacing opiates, cure etc." I forget all the reasoning but I'm pretty sure it was a message passed down from AKA.

I'll post the text from the thread when i get a minute free to do it.


--------------------
I'm addicted to coke, weed, booze, ludes and speed.
Not LSD, you can't get addicted to LSD, it was built by scientists.

I ain't got no demons that gonna get woke.


In erowid we trust.

Just take your damn pills and don't ask any questions, you'll be fine.


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: LuSiD enthusiast]
    #23845296 - 11/18/16 01:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

That's because in this context, "medical use" has a specific, legal definition, and kratom doesn't meet it.

Similarly, comparing the number of deaths to prescription drugs is of little utility. Scheduling proposals don't interpret epidemiological data in a relative manner, and the prescription death data mean little without some type of denominator or rate.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: badchad]
    #23845334 - 11/18/16 02:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Isn't it way too late for that though?


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
Fucked off to the pub
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Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23845345 - 11/18/16 02:08 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Like it sounds like you're trying to say it's not medicine when thousands went in an uproar about them banning medicine...

I for some reason don't think that pretending we intend to use it for soap and incense is gonna help a whole lot...


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23845371 - 11/18/16 02:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
Like it sounds like you're trying to say it's not medicine when thousands went in an uproar about them banning medicine...

I for some reason don't think that pretending we intend to use it for soap and incense is gonna help a whole lot...




I won't get into specifics, but generally speaking, the legal demonstration of "medical use" is two large and well-controlled clinical trials.  There are few, if any, clinical trials of kratom and certainly none that satisfy the existing legal criteria.

The sticky part about this is that the data suggest kratoim is (at minimum) a partial opioid agonist, whch is totally consistent with scheduling.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
Fucked off to the pub
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Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: badchad]
    #23845454 - 11/18/16 02:43 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Oh I don't think we have a chance in it not being scheduled. Just a chance of it being put at a lower schedule...


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          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
High on Spite
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Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23845476 - 11/18/16 02:50 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
Like it sounds like you're trying to say it's not medicine when thousands went in an uproar about them banning medicine...

I for some reason don't think that pretending we intend to use it for soap and incense is gonna help a whole lot...




It sounds as if you think you're talking to reasonable folks here.  Sadly you're mistaken.


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OfflineLucisM
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
Posts: 15,622
Last seen: 1 month, 30 days
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23846492 - 11/18/16 08:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Well, just wrote a lengthy, rather eloquent letter to the powers that are running things, hope it helps.


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©️


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Lucis] * 2
    #23847638 - 11/19/16 07:41 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

you know Satan's mailing address ?


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Everything I post is fiction.


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Offlinemrmazdarx9
Pffffttt


Registered: 05/15/16
Posts: 9,796
Loc: behind you
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23849239 - 11/19/16 04:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
you know Satan's mailing address ?



:rofl:
been watching this with interest for a while, everything got banned here (uk) I wish you all the best of luck :thumbup:
also side note after everything got banned everything stayed the same just buy shit from different places and get stuff from none banned countries.  My advice would be start growing your own just incase.


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