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OfflineBANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson
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Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 7,474
Loc: Ontario Canada
Last seen: 6 months, 3 days
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: musiclover420]
    #23720020 - 10/08/16 04:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
It could come at any time but there will be at the very least a 24 hour warning I imagine, plus they are doing the public comment period now.

Several vendors are still selling and some plan to re stock depending on what updates come in the next few days.



48 hours acctually


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OfflinegeokillsA
∙∙∙∙☼ º¿° ☼∙∙∙∙
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Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 23,419
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: geokills]
    #23720780 - 10/08/16 09:50 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

From the Botanical Education Alliance (Member's Email List) on 10/8/2016:

Dear Members,

We have had such an amazing outpour of support from the Kratom community.

In a short time we have managed to do the following:

1) Turn the Tides of the Press in Our Favor:
From negative to overwhelmingly supportive in regards to both the medicinal benefits of the plant itself and concerns with the DEA's lack of due process. This was with the joint engagement of Hastings Group (who’s contract has come to an end).

2) Provide the DEA with Scientific Backing for Kratom:
On behalf of the industry, a letter with considerable scientific backing was sent to the DEA showing that Kratom does not meet the three factors required to submit the ban. Many of you have asked for this but unfortunately even the Directors did not get a copy.

Why? 

Because several companies and doctors provided information to Venable through their lawyers. As a result, this information is privileged and we are unable to disclose it unless a release is provided.

3) Delivered Multiple Letters from Congress to the DEA:
Through the BEA's proprietary form letter, citizens were able to send multiple letters at once to both the Senate and House Representatives. This exponentially improved the clout of the Kratom community by inundating Congress officials with thousands of emails in a very short period of time, which resulted in  the co-signing of two Dear Colleague Letters that were sent to the DEA.  Please see the letters here and here.

4) Compiled a Comprehensive Economic Impact Study on Kratom:
A thorough Economic Impact Study that cited tens of millions of dollars in lost revenue was produced by the BEA after gathering  information from vendors across the country. Before this document, government officials had next to no idea of the economic impact that was set in place by Kratom's existence. This was key in convincing Congress. The results of the study were provided to both House Reps and Senators.

What’s Next?

Currently there is still a day by day “waiting game”.  There is some noise about the “industry” talking with the DEA about a 14 day period for comments.  We are currently not aware of anyone in the industry doing this and if you have hired representation, please let us know and we can have them included with the legal team that is working on this.

Here are a few tasks we will be working on:

• Communicating daily with the U.S. Congress, and Senate and committees  with direct oversight of the DEA leaders to ensure we have their continued support.

• Requesting several researchers, doctors and Ph.D's to prepare further scientific data with regards to the safety of the two alkaloids listed in the ban.

• Gathering private and published data to determine the  safe, acceptable daily intake levels of Kratom's alkaloids. We'd like to provide both sides to the DEA and to the industry to ensure proper labeling, packaging and safety.

• Acquiring three addiction specialists and/or toxicologists to write further opinions on addiction and safety.  - If you can help here please advise.

Our agreement with both Raben and Hastings has ended.  For those of you who have not contributed we really need you to step up, even if it is only $100.00. We really need the funds to continue with this endeavor. Please donate here.

If you want to donate direct to Hasting group for PR we can provide you with the wire instructions by contacting ryan@botanical-education.org.

There was also a large discussion around how we arrived at this point with the DEA and to show that we are deserving of a place in the Dietary Supplement arena.  The professionals within the natural products industry, AHPA and law firms, all agreed that a regulatory body is needed and that every vendor and consumer needs to take  hard look at the law and be compliant with it. At this time the BEA will take on this role to educate and provide guidance whenever we can.

"The Kratom industry is a several hundred million dollar industry and must grow up very quickly to act as such"
-Travis Lowin

For members, we will be arranging a series of free training calls for vendors, and plan to create a "Members Only" section of our website to provide further information on compliance.

If you are not a member please email ryan@botanical-education.org to register. Membership is $5000.00 annually with renewal in January and we will prorate the balance for the rest of the year.

The BEA is not only for Kratom but for all natural products, therefore, the information we provide is relevant for all your human consumption products being sold.

Sincerely,
The BEA Team




--------------------

--------------------
··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙··
...π╥ ╥π...


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InvisibleAsante
Mage
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: geokills]
    #23721240 - 10/09/16 04:53 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

We never wanted it, but we are fighters in the War on Drugs. War ha been declared on our beloved drugs and upon us, as users of those drugs.

Prisons are overflowing with drug prisoners, who realy are political prisoners of the oppression of mankinds god given right to get high.

Kratom nearly put me into the hospital but dammit, I will fight for you right to use it.

You want a war? You got yourself a war!




--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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Offlinehex_enduction
satta massa gana
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Registered: 01/26/14
Posts: 12,051
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Asante]
    #23721558 - 10/09/16 09:31 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Care to elucidate on that hospital comment?


--------------------


Connoisseur said:
oh ive cried on drugs

sunshine said:
Tragic.  I told the cop not to do it but he didn't listen.


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InvisibleAsante
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: hex_enduction]
    #23721619 - 10/09/16 10:03 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hex_enduction said:
Care to elucidate on that hospital comment?





I did so earlier in the thread


Quote:

Asante said:
I only took Kratom once. It resulted in me getting exceedingly uncomfortable in the chest, something small seemed to be swelling up tighter and tighter. After several hours it suddenly ruptured and i felt a wet internal splash.
Very alarming. I decided it was not for me.

It seems reasonable that it was a hallucination but it was completely vivid and scared the crap out of me.




What that was I'll never know. Scared the crap outta me.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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Offlinehex_enduction
satta massa gana
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Asante]
    #23721624 - 10/09/16 10:05 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Ah I see. That's strange , wonder what it could have been.


--------------------


Connoisseur said:
oh ive cried on drugs

sunshine said:
Tragic.  I told the cop not to do it but he didn't listen.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: hex_enduction]
    #23721648 - 10/09/16 10:13 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It feels like some sort of embolism.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
Stranger in Paradise
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Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 2,994
Loc: so many roads
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Asante]
    #23722704 - 10/09/16 03:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Going off of the hundreds of years of its reported use, I feel that must of been sheer coincidence and unrelated to kratom. 

I have recently discovered that vaping + kratom at night jacks up my Bp and I didn't understand why.

Edit- I deal with chronic pain and myofascial syndrome..  Kratom is uncontestedly the only thing that helps and allows me to function.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


Edited by birdeatingspider (10/09/16 03:56 PM)


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Asante]
    #23723139 - 10/09/16 06:30 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah I'm nearly certain it was either imaginary or unrelated to kratom asante


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineConnoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Asante]
    #23723180 - 10/09/16 06:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

hex_enduction said:
Care to elucidate on that hospital comment?





I did so earlier in the thread


Quote:

Asante said:
I only took Kratom once. It resulted in me getting exceedingly uncomfortable in the chest, something small seemed to be swelling up tighter and tighter. After several hours it suddenly ruptured and i felt a wet internal splash.
Very alarming. I decided it was not for me.

It seems reasonable that it was a hallucination but it was completely vivid and scared the crap out of me.




What that was I'll never know. Scared the crap outta me.




dude.....WOW...thats really not ok.

fuckin love your attitude tho brother, great vid of churchill btw


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Connoisseur]
    #23723210 - 10/09/16 06:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Assuming something physical did happen its possible it wasn't kratom and or was laced, its uncommon but still happens sadly.

I just saw a bunch of drama on reddit about some caffiene spiked kratom capsules that "accidentally" got sent out after someone "specially requested" them and then didn't pay. Some people noticed a light poweder in the capsules and separated it and did a few tests. Some people sadly took it before noticing and at least one person had a very unpleasant near caffeine OD :eek:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisibleDustBunnyM
Male

Registered: 08/20/14
Posts: 10,404
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: musiclover420]
    #23723223 - 10/09/16 06:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)



--------------------


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: DustBunny]
    #23723328 - 10/09/16 07:21 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DustBunny said:
It's possible it was regular kratom, too. Evaluation of the cardiotoxicity of mitragynine and its analogues using human induced pluripotent stem cell-derived cardiomyocytes.




I wasn't saying it for sure was not becouse of the kratom. That study doesn't really mean much since they are focusing on one alkaloid out of 30+ though.
:shrug:

Even if pure mitragynine can be toxic that doesn't mean its effect in conjuncture with the plethora of other alkaloids in kratom would be toxic.

If it was truly cardio toxic or toxic in general for that matter I don't see how people could eat 20-40 grams+ a day without developing symptoms of the toxicity.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisibleDustBunnyM
Male

Registered: 08/20/14
Posts: 10,404
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: musiclover420] * 1
    #23723391 - 10/09/16 07:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It was implied by the wording you used, though. That study means more than your evaluation and disregard- yes its only discussing one alkaloid and the combination probably affects it, but kratom is known to have an effect on (at least) our heart's potassium channels. Not just isolated mitragynine.

"Without developing symptoms of the toxicity"
:confused: That abstract clearly mentions some people have. Some people will be more susceptible to the danger of that effect, some will be less. Asante has had a heart attack.


--------------------


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: DustBunny]
    #23723425 - 10/09/16 07:46 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

How was it implied? :lol: I said its "possible" :shrug:

I am not saying the study doesn't have any solid info just that based on a single study such s that I don't see much of a risk.

Hell even water poisoning is a thing :tongue2: Even if kratom is hard on the heart I imagine it is not nearly as bad as many other commonly used plants/ drugs like caffeine and cocaine or alcohol. Plenty of people use kratom to work out and it has a history of being used to aid in manual labor. The "fatal incidents" associated with "mitragynine" have almost all been debunked too...

Too my knowledge out of the 15 deaths associated with kratom only one person just had kratom in his system, the rest all had other things that are known to kill on their own. The last person no doubt had other factors at play too, maybe the kratom contributed to it or maybe it didn't. There isn't really any solid evidence that I am aware of to support kratoms toxicity.

I had heard it was hard on the liver but that has been debunked as people have used kratom for years while getting regular check ups with no negative signs.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisibleDustBunnyM
Male

Registered: 08/20/14
Posts: 10,404
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: musiclover420] * 1
    #23723496 - 10/09/16 08:09 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It was implied by "If something physical did happen".

The fact kratom hasn't caused more deaths since its become increasingly popular this last decade is a good sign about its safety. Discovering kratom's risks might look bad in media light, but it is absolutely for the best that we remain objective about it. As promising as kratom may be for chronic and end-of-life pain management, most would regret if something happened to an eldery parent/friend, with a history of heart problems, due to kratom.


--------------------


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: DustBunny]
    #23723531 - 10/09/16 08:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The "assuming something psychical happened" part was becouse it was stated it could have been psychosomatic, I was not denying kratom can have physical effects.

People get the wobbles from it as well as opiate sickness and other things, but like I said even water becomes toxic at a certain point.

I am not trying to deny the possible risks, I am sure it has some just like everything. But with the reefer madness 2.0 aimed at kratom there have been a lot of BS claims being made, or data being stretched and skewed to put kratom in a bad light. I am trying to be objective by questioning research like that, it would be wrong to assume it is 100% true or false.

Like you said the abstract for that study cites the deaths linked to kratom which as I have said have essentially all been debunked.

Stupid people might read that and assume it means kratom is definitely not good for the heart and has possibly killed people becouse of that which just does not seem to be the case. I would never deny the possibility though but on the other hand the DEA is trying to make it schedule 1 becouse of the "imminent public health crisis" it poses and are citing those 15 deaths and all the poison control calls.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
modboy
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Registered: 04/24/05
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Loc: where?
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Asante] * 1
    #23723662 - 10/09/16 09:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
We never wanted it, but we are fighters in the War on Drugs. War ha been declared on our beloved drugs and upon us, as users of those drugs.

Prisons are overflowing with drug prisoners, who realy are political prisoners of the oppression of mankinds god given right to get high.

Kratom nearly put me into the hospital but dammit, I will fight for you right to use it.

You want a war? You got yourself a war!







i was disappointed when aces high didnt play.


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OfflineLuSiD enthusiast
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/13
Posts: 4,325
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: mushboy]
    #23724064 - 10/10/16 12:26 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Asante did you write a erowid trip report about your kratom incident recently?

A few weeks ago some major news outlet compiled kratom reports and stated kratom was fairly benign, but the day after reddit blew up because some report showed up about a guy hiking in the woods and having severe chest pains and he pretty much made it out like he was dying. Everyone (well a lot of people) on reddit assumed this was propaganda like the wikipedia page changing kratom to look dangerous immediately after the ban was announced.


--------------------
I'm addicted to coke, weed, booze, ludes and speed.
Not LSD, you can't get addicted to LSD, it was built by scientists.

I ain't got no demons that gonna get woke.


In erowid we trust.

Just take your damn pills and don't ask any questions, you'll be fine.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: LuSiD enthusiast] * 1
    #23724075 - 10/10/16 12:37 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Last time I took kratom I felt a series of loud clicks inside my head, then something like a slippery wiggle went right from the base of my rectum up my spine, then something like a wet "CRUNCH" and a series of flops like eels inside my chest cavity.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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