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birdeatingspider
Stranger in Paradise



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 2,994
Loc: so many roads
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: birdeatingspider] 2
#23699657 - 10/02/16 09:46 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I will second that kratom does not get me high, just makes the pain level bearable.
Do people ingest kratom for a buzz? I'm sure.
If there were no pain involved I wouldn't subject myself to eating kratom. But it's safety and effectiveness profile deems it tolerable.
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From all I may be, or have been before, To mingle with the Universe, and feel What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 9,652
Loc: Gamehendge
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: birdeatingspider]
#23699675 - 10/02/16 09:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Here's what kratom does for me. I woke up about 45 minutes ago. I was tired, and my back, neck, and legs hurt. I didn't feel motivated to do anything, and I wished I could have slept longer, so I took a shower and mixed up 5 grams of kratom in some chocolate milk and chugged it. That was about 15 minutes ago. Already the pain is subsiding, I'm feeling more energized, and I'm already starting to do productive things. I just turned on my flowhood, and in a few minutes I'm going to inoculate some jars and then take my dog for a walk. Without kratom, I would have just smoked some weed and gone back to sleep for another 3 hours. It helps with my pain, it wakes me up, and it motivates me. Sure some people would call me an addict for waking up and taking kratom right away, but to me it's just like coffee with pain relief. Nobody would get called an addict for drinking coffee first thing in the morning. Am I taking the kratom for its effects? Sure, but I wouldn't call it "getting high".
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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birdeatingspider
Stranger in Paradise



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 2,994
Loc: so many roads
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: NumeroEno]
#23699695 - 10/02/16 10:03 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Agreed. When I wake up I immediately think about coffee and can't function without a mug full. There are certainly rainy days where I take kratom in the morning, but I usually make it to mid day before the aches flare up. It's been a godsend to me. I posted this in the other thread:Quote:
birdeatingspider said:
Last night I gave my mom and her friend some red md. They loved it. It breaks my heart that the friend lost her son to heroin. I lost a close companion recently to that same monster. Literally feel pain in my heart thinking how this outlet may not be available to current and future addicts.
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From all I may be, or have been before, To mingle with the Universe, and feel What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Exceed19_2000]
#23699725 - 10/02/16 10:13 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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No you didn't imply that or did I think you meant to say you were in more pain than whoever. I was just surprised you get by with so little. But strain could differ and you're right everyone is a little different. Either way I'm glad you'd gotten off all the bullshit and are feeling so much better these days hopefully we can keep it that way.
And yes the painscale is rediculous. Doctors judging how much pain you should be in is rediculous too. Kratom could turn the "I can't get enough meds to treat my pain" or "my doc got me hooked on opiates" thing on its head. That, I think, is what makes this so tragic.
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Free time is the only time
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Mr Piggy]
#23699741 - 10/02/16 10:19 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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The getting rid of the DEA statement is one I brought up because of someone who replied after you, and keeps coming up. Sorry I didn't make that clear. I don't think you understood what I meant.
Anyway, piggy, I agree its easier to get things done at the state level. But we don't yet have ANY reason to go to the state. It is the federal government that intends to make it illegal and intends to force states to comply. For right now your suggestion is not relevant.
And I personally don't think your supporting argument about how they legalize pot is awfully relevant either. Which it seems you read over why I say so.
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Free time is the only time
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tripp23
Kratom Freak



Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 4,030
Loc: Florida, US
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: CookieCrumbs] 1
#23703648 - 10/03/16 01:31 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/sanders-hatch-snd-nine-other-us-senators-urge-dea-to-halt-push-to-ban-natural-herb-kratom-300338141-395709771.html
Quote:
Sanders, Hatch And Nine Other U.S. Senators Urge DEA To Halt Push To Ban Natural Herb Kratom Backlash in U.S. Senate Follows Similar Letters Signed by Bipartisan Group of 51 U.S. House Members WASHINGTON, Oct. 3, 2016 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Two letters from a bipartisan group of 11 U.S. Senators – including Bernie Sanders (I-VT) and Orrin Hatch (R-UT) – are urging the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) to halt a proposed ban on the natural coffee-like herb kratom and to allow for expert and public input.
One letter was signed by 11 members of the U.S. Senate – Sanders, Hatch, Michael Bennet (D-CO), Angus King (I-ME), Mark Kirk (R-IL), Mike Lee (R-UT), Thom Tillis (R-NC), Mark Warner (D-VA) and Ron Wyden (D-OR). Senator Wyden also signed a second letter along with Sens. Cory Booker (D-NJ) and Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY).
On August 31, the Drug Enforcement Agency published a "notice of intent" in the Federal Register stating its plan to list the natural herb kratom as a Schedule I substance, the most restrictive category, alongside heroin and LSD, effective September 30th with no opportunity for a public comment period. September 30th was the earliest date the ban could have gone into effect and there is no clear indication of how the DEA will now proceed.
The new U.S. Senate letters reflect growing concern about the hasty DEA campaign to ban kratom.
Last Monday (September 26th), a bipartisan group of 51 U.S. House signed a letter to the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) urging the federal agency to halt an emergency push to ban the coffee-related herb kratom by as early as Friday (September 30th). A related letter by the Members of Congress also was been sent to the Office of Management and Budget (OMB). Organized by Rep. Mark Pocan (D-WI) and Rep. Matt Salmon (R-AZ), the DEA and OMB letters House letters were signed by 28 Democrats and 23 Republicans, including two medical doctors serving in Congress. The signers represent Congressional Districts in 25 states, including California, Georgia, Colorado, Florida, Virginia, New York state, and Texas.
The letter from Sanders Hatch and nine other Senators reads as follows: "The use of this emergency authority for a natural substance is unprecedented, so it is important to determine whether the circumstances here necessitate a jump to Schedule I."
"Congress has established a specific set of review protocols for scheduling decisions that will create significant disruption in the marketplace that allows for the full engagement of consumers, researchers, health professionals, law enforcement officials, and other stakeholders. Given the long reported history of Kratom use, coupled with the public's sentiment that it is a safe alternative to prescription opioids, we believe using the regular review process would provide for a much-needed discussion among all stakeholders. We understand the DEA's desire to uphold public health and safety, and we share the goal of seeing unsafe products removed from the market. However, hearing multiple perspectives allows for more fulsome decision-making."
The letter from the 11 Senators continues: "Given the extremely short timeframe for the implementation of the proposed DEA scheduling order, we urge you to take appropriate steps to delay the order to allow both for a public comment period and sufficient time for the DEA to outline its evidentiary standards to Congress regarding the justification for this proposed action."
The separate Wyden-Booker-Gillibrand Senate letter states: "We are concerned that the 30-day comment period for such a proposed regulatory action is not a sufficient amount of time for public comment on a drug that, according to recent scientific studies, may actually be an effective substance to help combat the opioid epidemic. While we understand there are times when public safety demands that your agency act quickly on scheduling decisions, we believe that in this instance additional time for the scientific community, public health officials, and other members of the public to comment is warranted and may prove to be in the interest of public health and safety.'
"As you know, Schedule I … is reserved for substances that have a high potential for abuse and that have no currently accepted medical use. An increasing body of research has shown kratom' s potential value as a treatment for a number of conditions. On September 2, 2016, eleven scientists from well-respected research institutions in the U.S. wrote an open letter to Congress expressing "grave concern" about the agency's proposed action and expressed their opposition to any efforts to designate kratom as a Schedule I controlled substance of the CSA …"
"Given that we are in the midst of a drug crisis and there is promising evidence from the research of kratom's potential medical benefits, including the possibility of new, safer medications for the treatment of pain, we believe that placing kratom in Schedule I without adequate time for experts to weigh in via public comment may have unintended consequences."
"Furthermore, since 1980, our federal prison population has exploded by nearly 800 percent. This increase is a result of draconian drug policies that continue to place nonviolent drug offenders behind bars. We should not, in haste and without adequate opportunity for comment and analysis, place substances in categories that may be inconsistent with their medical value and potential for abuse."
This information brought to you by the American Kratom Association and the Botanical Education Alliance.
SOURCE American Kratom Association; Botanical Education Alliance, Washington, D.C.
-------------------- Experience my nightmarish first time of smoking Ganja!

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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: tripp23]
#23703669 - 10/03/16 01:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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We got this- the dea will end up with egg on their face and Americans will be using legal kratom for many years to come.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Kenetic
Nam Sayin



Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 4,389
Loc: I don't believe in land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Moonshoe]
#23703931 - 10/03/16 02:40 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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fuck yeah
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 9,652
Loc: Gamehendge
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Kenetic]
#23703935 - 10/03/16 02:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Can't wait to see this play out. It's about time the DEA got served a big fat slice of humble pie.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: NumeroEno]
#23703971 - 10/03/16 02:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
NumeroEno said: Can't wait to see this play out. It's about time the DEA got served a big fat slice of humble pie.
Yeah either way the DEA are going to get a huge push back, either they cave and lose authority or they stand their ground further digging their own graves.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Kenetic
Nam Sayin



Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 4,389
Loc: I don't believe in land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: musiclover420]
#23703981 - 10/03/16 03:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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They can dig their graves all they want but they'll never get buried.
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 9,652
Loc: Gamehendge
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Kenetic]
#23704076 - 10/03/16 03:35 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Maybe one day they will be. I'd love to live to see the day when the DEA is defunded and dissolved.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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Kenetic
Nam Sayin



Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 4,389
Loc: I don't believe in land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: NumeroEno]
#23704111 - 10/03/16 03:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I know the dea (doesn't deserve capital letters) is a pita when it comes to a lot of things, but they definitely do some good. If it wasn't for them the fucking cartels would run this country.
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Kenetic] 2
#23704122 - 10/03/16 03:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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If it wasn't for them there would be no cartels.
Cartels exist to fill the economic void prohibition itself created.
If all drugs were legalized cartels would implode virtually overnight.
Cartels and the DEA/CIA are two sides of the same coin-
Every time the DEA criminalizes a drug they create billions of dollars in profit for the cartels.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Sky Walker
Vulture of Culture



Registered: 02/11/12
Posts: 605
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Kenetic] 1
#23704123 - 10/03/16 03:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
kenetic said: I know the dea (doesn't deserve capital letters) is a pita when it comes to a lot of things, but they definitely do some good. If it wasn't for them the fucking cartels would run this country.
They might as well be the cartel. Shit, they keep in the cartel in business 100%.
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NDStepp84
Stellar nuclear waste


Registered: 04/23/15
Posts: 4,956
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Kenetic]
#23704131 - 10/03/16 03:58 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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My thoughts are drugs being illegal and enforcement from the dea causes black markets and the cartels.
:edit what moonshoe said
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"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. -Robert A. Heinlein
Links and teks ND's grow log and discussion Plant thread
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DustBunny


Registered: 08/20/14
Posts: 10,404
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Sky Walker]
#23704150 - 10/03/16 04:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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NDStepp84
Stellar nuclear waste


Registered: 04/23/15
Posts: 4,956
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: NDStepp84] 4
#23704190 - 10/03/16 04:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Look at alcohol and MJ, cartels aren't pushing liquor because you can buy it at the grocery store, no more al Capones running the black market on it, the cartel is against legalization of MJ because no one wants that Mexican dirt weed when we can go to the bud store in the legal states.
Prohibition dosen't work and causes a black market, pressure from the dea just makes drug prices higher and more profitable for cartels via supply and demand. If people want to do a substance they will, if they can't even keep drugs out of high security prisons how the hell do they think they could ever keep them out of the country.
The war on drugs is pointless, any drug, and IMO it being illegal just makes people want to do it more. Places like Portugal decriminalizing possession of all drugs and instead of spending money keeping non violent offenders in jail offer them treatment. Use,especially in younger people has went down. They need to eat crow and admit the war on drugs was an expensive failure and stop locking up non violent people. As Graham Hancock said, if you don't even have the freedom to explore your own mind how can you claim any freedoms at all.
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"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. -Robert A. Heinlein
Links and teks ND's grow log and discussion Plant thread
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musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Kenetic] 1
#23704232 - 10/03/16 04:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
kenetic said: I know the dea (doesn't deserve capital letters) is a pita when it comes to a lot of things, but they definitely do some good. If it wasn't for them the fucking cartels would run this country.
As everyone else has pointed out this is just not true at all 
If it wasn't for them and drug prohibition as a whole the cartels wouldn't be running other countries
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 9,652
Loc: Gamehendge
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: NDStepp84]
#23704235 - 10/03/16 04:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Here's a first draft of a letter I'm writing to the local newspaper about all this bullshit. I'd love to flesh it out and the stuff about the cartels and how the DEA encourages the black markets is great. I'm going to add some of that in there but tell me what you all think.
Quote:
A Case for the Dissolution of the DEA
The DEA was born of corruption, created during the administration of the most corrupt president in American history, Richard Nixon. In the years since their creation, the DEA has spent billions of taxpayer dollars fighting the famed “War on Drugs”. This right here should give you an idea of their effectiveness, waging war on inanimate plants, pills, and powders. They’ve tirelessly fought against drugs for the past 43 years, and have nothing to show for it. Not until now, 43 years after the creation of the US Drug Enforcement Administration, has their zealotry and corruption really backfired, but with their attempt to place an herbal supplement called kratom on the Schedule 1 list of controlled substances, their true purpose is finally being revealed. Kratom is the common name for a tree from Southeast Asia, botanically known as Mitragyna speciosa. The leaves of this tree, which is closely related to the coffee plant, have been used since antiquity for energy and pain relief. The principle active compounds in this tree, mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine, produce mild opioid like effects. These effects are what have gotten the tree in trouble in recent years. Kratom was first outlawed in Thailand in 1943. The reason for its ban was because it was cutting into the profits of the government controlled opium trade. Yes, people were using kratom instead of opium, and that made the Thai government unhappy. Now, there’s an old adage – history repeats. Fast forward to the year 2016, and fly across the Pacific. Here in the USA, history is indeed repeating, thanks to a former lobbyist for the pharmaceutical industry named Chuck Rosenberg. Here in 21st century America, synthetic, doctor prescribed drugs are the only ones deemed acceptable to use. After half a century, marijuana is finally gaining some long overdue credibility as a medicine. 4 states and the District of Columbia have legalized it, yet the DEA refuses to acknowledge its medicinal value. In fact, it’s still on that schedule 1 list which, according to the DEA, means it has no accepted medicinal use and a high potential for abuse. Now, Chuck Rosenberg, who now happens to be the acting director of the DEA, wants to place kratom in the same category as marijuana. The schedule 1 list is pretty interesting. Several compounds already on the list, such as marijuana and psilocybin, show great promise as medicine. The only drug on the schedule 1 list that really, honestly deserves to be there is heroin, which is by all means the most deadly and life destroying drug. By contrast, methamphetamine is schedule II. Yes, by the DEA’s reasoning, crystal meth is not as bad as marijuana. Who decides these things anyway? One can only assume that the DEA, utilizing Rosenberg’s connections to the pharmaceutical industry, is receiving some sort of compensation for their decision to place kratom on the schedule 1 list. After all, it’s anathema to treat your pain using a natural supplement instead of a lab synthesized drug. According to the powers that be, if you want to treat your pain, you have two options – go to the pharmacy and buy synthetic NSAIDs or aspirin, or go to the doctor and get a prescription for a synthetic opioid. If you’ve been taking that prescription opioid for a while and don’t like the fact that you’re physically dependent on it, well you just have to go on opioid replacement therapy, trading the oxycodone for methadone or buprenorphine. Yes, it’s a vicious cycle and it’s one that the DEA and the pharmaceutical industry don’t want broken, because breaking that cycle will hurt their profits, and that’s exactly what kratom does. Yes, kratom can be used to treat chronic pain and opioid addiction – naturally, without a prescription. Once again, that very concept is anathema to the DEA and the pharmaceutical industry. Luckily, the DEA’s decision to invoke emergency scheduling, usually reserved for synthetic analogs of drugs like fentanyl and methamphetamine, to place a natural product on the schedule 1 list is unprecedented, and the resistance to such an action is also unprecedented. The DEA wanted kratom to already be illegal, and thanks to the efforts of US lawmakers and millions of kratom advocates across the country they have not been able to pull it off just yet. Now, you have to ask yourself; in light of the DEA’s offensive and their director’s ties to the pharmaceutical industry, are they really doing this for the greater good? Do they represent the best interest of the American public when they try to forcibly and underhandedly take away a harmless energy supplement and analgesic? Is this unprecedented decision being made for safety, or is it being made for money? This is the heart of the matter. The DEA does not represent public interest. The DEA never has. The war on drugs has failed, and now it’s clearer than ever that the war on drugs is a war for control of a market, and not a war for the safety of the American people. This is the reason why the DEA should not exist. It was never intended to exist for the protection of the people, it was intended to exist in order to control a market. US customs and the US Coast Guard can control the influx of cocaine and heroin, and local law enforcement can combat domestic clandestine drug laboratories just fine. When it’s so obvious that the DEA is dumping an enormous amount of their resources in order to protect the interests of the pharmaceutical industry, it’s time to take a good hard look at whether their continued existence is even necessary. After all, we’re a free market society, and we free citizens have the right to choose an alternative to synthetic pharmaceuticals.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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