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InvisibleNumeroEno
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: musiclover420]
    #23697250 - 10/01/16 01:35 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Yeah they are basically a Scientology rehab program... So its like a cult within a cult within a Sci Fi :rofldrunk:


Southpark a taco within a taco (inception spoof)




lol yeah I figured. They never explicitly mention Scientology but there's a reference to L. Ron Hubbard on every fucking page. Calling him a humanitarian and shit :lol:


--------------------

:gd_icon:  Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield!  :gd_icon:
What shall we say, shall we call it by a name
As well to count the angels dancing on a pin
Water bright as the sky from which it came
And the name is on the earth that takes it in

DOG FOOD AGAR

MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: NumeroEno]
    #23697277 - 10/01/16 01:45 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah the L Ron stuff is ridiculous, I only saw one part but damn are they delusional...

Quote:

“I like to help others and count it as my pleasure in life to see a person free himself of the shadows which darken his days.”




He has a pretty backwards idea of "helping others".... Seems like his real pleasure in life was making money off others and taking advantage of them.

Scientology is a great example of how mind blowingly stupid many people are, that or how strongly they want to believe in something...

:lol: Listening to the most fitting song right now called "deception"... "Deception will be the death of our love" its about a woman but it works with religion.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisibleSky Walker
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Registered: 02/11/12
Posts: 605
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: NumeroEno]
    #23697308 - 10/01/16 01:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

NumeroEno said:
I think it needs to be pushed more as an energy supplement than a pain killer/opioid alternative. That's probably the most innocent light it can be cast in, and really what it primarily is.




I strongly agree with this statement. Not just as a platform for all the legal BS we must persist through, but in actual reality. I mean for pain and as an overall energy booster, I use kratom much in the same way as coffee is used. In fact, it is in many ways a much healthier alternative to coffee, at least for me. Both cause a mild WD upon cessation, both are addicting, and both should be legal. I know people will argue about the differences in WD and addiction and say kratom can be far more intoxicating, but REALLY go take 5g of kratom and then at a later point drink an entire pot of coffee. For me, both doses of these drugs would be excessive and undesirable and both would seriously fuck me up. And honestly I'd rather deal with the kratom come down lol.


--------------------
The Power of Fungi

Mycoremediation




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OfflineFractaliopsybe
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: NumeroEno]
    #23697334 - 10/01/16 02:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

NumeroEno said:
Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Quote:

NumeroEno said:
Quote:

Fractaliopsybe said:
The drug is abused for its sedative or stimulating effects. At low dosages, it is a stimulant, making a person more talkative, sociable and energetic. At higher dosages, it creates lethargy and euphoria. But the experience is not pleasant for every user.
Sounds Alike to cocaine but... Not as good?




Wow. That article is very negatively biased, and has some outright lies and omissions. Like it talks about it being illegal in Thailand but not why (it was outlawed in Thailand specifically because it was cutting into the opium trade).  And nobody smokes kratom :facepalm:

It's nothing like cocaine. To me the effects are like hydrocodone but milder and without the side effects like constipation and itchiness.




If it wasn't Narco I would right them some strongly worded emails, in fact I am tempted to regardless.

Maybe if I bombard them with facts they will be unable to deny their hypocrisy and BS...

Times like these make me wish I was a journalist and could combat the BS articles like that one :shakefist:




I checked out the site a little more and they appear to be involved with Scientology.



:takingnotes: Not too Familiar with this Sp. & Chemicals involved... :heart: Be Safe!
:sun:


--------------------
Psilocybe Cubensis.:mushroom2:Panaeolus Cyanescens.:mushroom2:Psilocybe Subaeruginosa. Dimethyltryptamine.:deemsters:


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InvisibleNumeroEno
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Sky Walker]
    #23697481 - 10/01/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

skywalker444 said:
Quote:

NumeroEno said:
I think it needs to be pushed more as an energy supplement than a pain killer/opioid alternative. That's probably the most innocent light it can be cast in, and really what it primarily is.




I strongly agree with this statement. Not just as a platform for all the legal BS we must persist through, but in actual reality. I mean for pain and as an overall energy booster, I use kratom much in the same way as coffee is used. In fact, it is in many ways a much healthier alternative to coffee, at least for me. Both cause a mild WD upon cessation, both are addicting, and both should be legal. I know people will argue about the differences in WD and addiction and say kratom can be far more intoxicating, but REALLY go take 5g of kratom and then at a later point drink an entire pot of coffee. For me, both doses of these drugs would be excessive and undesirable and both would seriously fuck me up. And honestly I'd rather deal with the kratom come down lol.




Exactly. Really I think the focus during the comment period should be highlighting the similarities, both in biology and effects, to coffee, and holding back on the pain killer/opioid alternative aspect. I used to drink tons of coffee and the withdrawals are bad. Caffeine withdrawal headaches are the most painful headaches I've ever had. Even worse than alcohol hangover headaches. Nobody could argue that caffeine isn't addictive. In fact, I'd say it's more addictive than kratom. Even now I drink a cup of coffee or an energy drink every day, right after my kratom smoothie. Taking 5g of kratom will give you a nice uplifting buzz, but drinking an entire pot of coffee will straight fuck your shit up. I wonder how many people actually know that caffeine is an alkaloid just like all the other stuff they say is so harmful...


--------------------

:gd_icon:  Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield!  :gd_icon:
What shall we say, shall we call it by a name
As well to count the angels dancing on a pin
Water bright as the sky from which it came
And the name is on the earth that takes it in

DOG FOOD AGAR

MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: NumeroEno] * 1
    #23697529 - 10/01/16 03:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The opioid cat is out of the bag though, if we try to deny or downplay that side of kratom it will look more suspicious then if we educate and use fact to show why it isn't the same as opiates or even most opioids. I always bring up the coffee relation in my messages with politicians but in the midst of this opiate crisis many will admit we need more safe natural alternatives then less.

I have the same issue with people who try to say it doesn't get them high. I agree in part but to outsiders that probably looks like junkie denial logic sadly.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisibleNumeroEno
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: musiclover420]
    #23697545 - 10/01/16 03:32 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not saying to downplay it, just to not focus on it so much. I agree that the cat is out of the bag and those effects are too well known to equivocate, but we do need to clarify how minimal the opioid like effects are to all the people buying that "herbal heroin" moral panic bullshit.


--------------------

:gd_icon:  Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield!  :gd_icon:
What shall we say, shall we call it by a name
As well to count the angels dancing on a pin
Water bright as the sky from which it came
And the name is on the earth that takes it in

DOG FOOD AGAR

MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP


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InvisibleSky Walker
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Posts: 605
Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: musiclover420]
    #23697555 - 10/01/16 03:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I agree, the opioid bag cat can not be ignored. The reality of this situation, in my mind, is also a reasonable notion in terms of legality. Just because something has a certain affinity for a certain receptor, certainly should not make it illegal. If the politicians and govt agencies in our country choose to view kratom in this way, then it will simply make me sad. I have faith we have evolved past such negligent, narrow-minded forms of thought.


--------------------
The Power of Fungi

Mycoremediation




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OfflineExceed19_2000
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: musiclover420]
    #23697904 - 10/01/16 06:01 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
The opioid cat is out of the bag though, if we try to deny or downplay that side of kratom it will look more suspicious then if we educate and use fact to show why it isn't the same as opiates or even most opioids. I always bring up the coffee relation in my messages with politicians but in the midst of this opiate crisis many will admit we need more safe natural alternatives then less.

I have the same issue with people who try to say it doesn't get them high. I agree in part but to outsiders that probably looks like junkie denial logic sadly.




If you use a small dosage, and have legit pain - it does not get you high. Unless, you mean like coffee gets you high. I feel a little faster, my brain fires better - and I think thats to it killing off the nerve damage in my spine, and giving me back normal "clarity".

I want to repeat - it does NOT get me high. But I am taking a spoonful in the morning, and MAYBE one at night after a workout. Thats it, my kilos last me a year. I hear people taking 14+ grams a day, and wonder why though.

If you have no pain, I'd imagine it *could* get you high, but you are taking it for a buzz, not for pain at that point IMHO.

If I wanted to get high, I'd roll up a fatty.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Exceed19_2000]
    #23697970 - 10/01/16 06:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I wouldn't imagine I'm in more pain than you but I generally take a tablespoon every 2 hours when I'm hurting good. 4 or 5 on moderate days. None on others.

I dunno. I'd say it could be tolerance coming into play but based on what you said I don't think its that either.

But considering that from what I understand I still take significantly less than people who use it to get high. I do mistakenly take more than I intend to and get a little high from time to time. But then I could also responsibly use vicodin and not get high. Imo the biggest thing that separates kratom from traditional opiates in terms of abuse and recreational use is the high just isn't as fun. Not as much of the euphoric fuzzy feels. Kratom is just kinda like "oh gee I'm high" and not "oh wow man I'm fucked up lol"


--------------------
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InvisibleMr Piggy
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23698311 - 10/01/16 08:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Did we do it team?  Did we stop Kratom from becoming schedule one? 

No?

Maybe that's because petitions don't do shit, ever.  The DEA is an out of control monster you can not stop outside of voting for states rights and telling them to fuck off at the ballot.


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Offlinekatbusa
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Mr Piggy]
    #23698531 - 10/01/16 09:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

They have been doing this bullshit for years. Everyone with a shred of common sense knows flat out the drug was has been disastrous. Take a look at how bad it has fucked up Mexico and South America. Take a look at all of the people who have been jailed and had their lives ruined over the nonsense.

The war on drugs is prepetuating the drug problem. They know this but they make too much money from the drug war.

The old guard needs to go. They have done enough damage over the last 30 years.


Edited by katbusa (10/01/16 09:58 PM)


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: katbusa]
    #23698724 - 10/01/16 11:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Well states rights are working for colorado.  Maybe they can apply it to Kratom too


--------------------
Todo Cambia
   

               
                                                :cookiemonster::elmo:



DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Mr Piggy]
    #23699288 - 10/02/16 06:58 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I'm still waiting for someone to suggest how we overthrow a government agency instead of having to petition and pester them.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: CookieCrumbs] * 2
    #23699295 - 10/02/16 07:03 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Until then you are just complaining and accusing those who are actually trying to do SOMETHING. That effort of convincing everyone that doing what they can is pointless couldn't be any less productive if you tried.


Until you suggest something better you are part of the problem.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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InvisibleMr Piggy
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23699339 - 10/02/16 07:33 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Bullshit.

Clearly you are illiterate.  That or a few sentences are too hard to read.  You want to overthrow the government?  Go have fun becoming a smoking crater.

I said a petition is a bullshit idea that will be ignored, but that voting for rights at the state level works.  Sorry I put forth a practical idea that has been proven to work instead of getting my dick all hard about a completely impossible fight.

Oregon
Washington
Alaska
Colorado
The District of Columbia.

Four states and DC have told the DEA to go fuck themselves about a schedule one narcotic.  Voting works, and the revenue is helping revive education funding deficits in the states cannabis has been legalized in.

Have fun signing a poorly constructed petition and puffing hot air about overthrowing the government on the internet though.


--------------------
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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Mr Piggy]
    #23699368 - 10/02/16 07:47 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

You know immediate action is going to be to go along with the federal government. This law will effectively kill kratom. Its not yet popular enough for states to be willing to challenge the federal government over it. A big reason so many states legalized weed was because so many people weren't obeying the law and they were wasting a tremendous amount of resources on trying to enforce the law.


That absolutely will not be the case with kratom.


I just don't much like your attitude. You aren't being helpful. You're being negative.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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InvisibleMr Piggy
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: CookieCrumbs] * 3
    #23699382 - 10/02/16 07:57 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

No, hippie, I'm being realistic.

You're making noise about overthrowing the government like it's a viable option.  Okay, then what?  We all live in peace and happiness?  That's not how it would work if we suddenly had no government.  The kind of people willing to take up arms against the US government are not the kind of people you would want to associate with.  Hint:  Many of them live in northern Idaho.

As for a petition, right into the garbage pan.  That's where it will be carefully filed by the DEA or White House.  It's a wasted effort and false hope.

If you really want to make a difference and are serious about it you will start campaigning on behalf of kratom legalization at the state level.  That is the quickest and most effective method of legalization, and this has been proven several times over.  Yes, it will take a long time and a whole lot of effort, but it will get a lot more done than beating your chest from an anonymous internet account.

If you actually care at all about a realistic approach, that is the way.


--------------------
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OfflineExceed19_2000
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23699605 - 10/02/16 09:28 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
I wouldn't imagine I'm in more pain than you but I generally take a tablespoon every 2 hours when I'm hurting good. 4 or 5 on moderate days. None on others.

I dunno. I'd say it could be tolerance coming into play but based on what you said I don't think its that either.

But considering that from what I understand I still take significantly less than people who use it to get high. I do mistakenly take more than I intend to and get a little high from time to time. But then I could also responsibly use vicodin and not get high. Imo the biggest thing that separates kratom from traditional opiates in terms of abuse and recreational use is the high just isn't as fun. Not as much of the euphoric fuzzy feels. Kratom is just kinda like "oh gee I'm high" and not "oh wow man I'm fucked up lol"




Oh man, I hope I didn't come off wrong earlier about talking points with my spinal fusion surgeries. The fucked up thing about pain, is you can never say to someone "I'm in more pain than you", because we are all just nerve endings, synapse firing, and cells - and no one is the same.

That's why in pain management, the 1-10 scale, or the smiley scale - is complete bullshit IMHO. Just because I can take (or not take) more pain than someone else, doesn't mean that I'm fine, or hurting. I hope that makes sense. I've been shot before - that didn't hurt. After my spine surgeries, a drunk driver ran into the back of my sports car, and THAT hurt. Like we are all built different, even though we are sort of the same.

Thats why this Kratom thing pisses me off, because I've been high for 14 years on Oxy15's - from a Dr. Now I'm not. And now I am bigger, faster, stronger, more aggressive, more intelligent, and my brain fires so much faster - and it's all because I'm not "doped" up.

The DEA is doing this because it gives people an alternative to being hooked on junk. Junk that people eventually (I never, ever did) snort, or shot - and then it leads to them being lifers, or, the opposite of a lifer (a tomb raider). Big pharma wants to sell you insulin, viagra, and anything they can, for the rest of your life. That CERTAINLY includes pain meds, which you build a fast tolerance too, then you need to up your dose or the pain is back, and just as bad. Infact, my body built phantom pain, my knees would hurt, my ankle hurt. Amazingly, after being clean - those pains went away (yeah, my back still hurts, but I have a harrington rod fusion, so it's not a "phantom" pain). But.. I just wanted to clarify - I shouldn't judge others pain levels - but Kratom doesn't get me high. It's like a better tylenol that tastes like shit, but knowing the relief it provides, lets me chug it down in OJ shots. It's still not enjoyable though. (taking the powder).


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Please Take Action to Stop the DEA from Scheduling Kratom [Re: Mr Piggy] * 7
    #23699647 - 10/02/16 09:40 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Wow your additude really sucks.

Signing a petition, making phone calls, and rallying outside the capitol is all we have to do, unfortunately.  Our hard work has paid off in the form of suspension of the ban. 

How many periods in history has public outcry made a difference.  I'd say so far our efforts have been effective.

What are you doing that grants you such a high and mighty platform.

Gtfo of here with your name calling and negativity.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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