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OfflineWienerwoods
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Will these synthetic filter discs work?
    #23665903 - 09/21/16 06:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I recently bought some SFDs on Ebay to be used as GE filters on grain jar and LC lids.



As you see the vendor is called ukmushroomsupplies. The description had a picture of those thicker cellulose ones, those were the ones I intended to get.

Initially I was shocked because I haven't anything like these before. I thought I'd been ripped off. I still think that may be the case, even though the seller has sold over a 100 of these and maintained a seemingly flawless track record (99.9% positive feedback).

Did I just pay a premium for some kind of glorified tyvek or are these the real deal?

Also, if these are good to use, should the hydrophobic side (The slightly glossy side - I've tested it and the coating is legit) face inside or outside?


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Will these synthetic filter discs work? [Re: Wienerwoods]
    #23665929 - 09/21/16 06:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Those don't look like SFDs to me.  Furthermore they look scratched the fuck up..  Maybe I'm just ignorant about whatever those are made of.


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OfflineMushierage
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Re: Will these synthetic filter discs work? [Re: Inocuole]
    #23665942 - 09/21/16 06:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know anything about what that's made of, but if it breathes, it'll work just great.  It is .22 microns after all. 

Bacteria that you generally have to worry about are no smaller than .3 microns.


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Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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Invisible2shoes
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Re: Will these synthetic filter discs work? [Re: Mushierage]
    #23666007 - 09/21/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Those look thinner than any discs I've had. Possibly single use like tyvek?


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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: Will these synthetic filter discs work? [Re: 2shoes]
    #23666054 - 09/21/16 07:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

fiberglass or something? either its made from transparent material or the pore size is much larger than advertised

ive seen some glass infused filter discs at the lab supply store kinda like that

less than a micron pore size tends to be much thicker than those in any case

also, cant imagine them surviving too many cycles


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"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche


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OfflineWienerwoods
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Re: Will these synthetic filter discs work? [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23667228 - 09/22/16 06:01 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The shroomery image upload only allows for 512K images which translates to a piss-poor quality. Therefore it's really hard to see what the filter looks like, even though I used a particularly sharp macro lens.

Anyway, I just made 4 lids for pint jars. The filters were fucky to cut with scissors which is how I could definitely see compressed glass fiber act like. However, I'm pretty sure it's polypropylene by the feel of it, adhered to a different material that feels very rubbery. Maybe the fibers just provide the hydrophobic properties and the rubbery stuff is the actual filter? It feels surprisingly rigid in any case, so probably not single use.

As is often the case, if you must know something for sure you have to try it out.
Since I could make more than enough 3/4" patches for my needs, I decided to go with two layers. The rubbery sides are facing each other with the hydrophobic sides facing both the inside and the outside the jar contents. The filters are attached with extreme temperature RTV, naturally.


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OfflinePortabellaFella 1
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Re: Will these synthetic filter discs work? [Re: Wienerwoods]
    #23667236 - 09/22/16 06:09 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

What about  e-z felt or Eco fi (same thing) from michaels or Joanne's fabric stores. I think wal mart has them as well. I used them on my quart jar lids and they worked great. I'm not sure this is applicable to LC lids. They are a little more than a dollar and come in 9"x12" sheets.

Edit: if you're in the UK, I don't know if you have these stores.
hydrophobic repels water. Do people using LC wants to prevent water from getting out or in? I would say in. Assuming the LC is clean, you wouldn't want moisture carrying possible contams to permeate.


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Edited by PortabellaFella 1 (09/22/16 06:22 AM)


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OfflineWienerwoods
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Re: Will these synthetic filter discs work? [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23668154 - 09/22/16 01:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

We have none of those fancy stores where I'm from :grin: But a fabric store product doesn't exactly sound ideal to my cautious ass.

Anyway, the way I see it SFDs are the way to go with the amount of endorsement they've received from Roger Rabbit, let alone all the other cultivators who swear by it over anything else. If these won't work, I'll just get a different kind.

I'm pretty sure the idea is to just prevent wetting your filter in general, because contaminants that won't travel through by air will germinate through just fine.


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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: Will these synthetic filter discs work? [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23668174 - 09/22/16 01:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

strange... let us know how they work, and how they hold up!

btw you might want to do a couple of single layer lids, to compare them against the doubles. I would also do at least a couple with the entire filter disk on 1 lid. RR often said that filter disks arent supposed to be cut, and that they dont work as well that way, preferring instead to use the entire filter on 1 lid with 4 holes in the metal.

lots of people have success cutting and RTVing them , and that has always worked great for me, but things did get a little more consistent when i started using the whole filter

the cheapest decent filter disks ive been able to find are from Aloha @ $25/lb (66 wide mouth or 90 regulat). they are cellulose, but have held up quite well so far, and are great value


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C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche


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OfflinePortabellaFella 1
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Re: Will these synthetic filter discs work? [Re: Wienerwoods]
    #23668321 - 09/22/16 02:41 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I understand cautiousness, being said, that have been used a lot here. It is just ironed polyfil after all. I was gonna buy "official" sfds it opted not to. Yeah they prevent foreign spores and excess water from getting in but their main function is to provide gas exchange.


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I would like to acquire anything I don’t have


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Will these synthetic filter discs work? [Re: Inocuole]
    #23668449 - 09/22/16 03:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
Those don't look like SFDs to me.  Furthermore they look scratched the fuck up..



Mine look similar enough to those, which look nothing like most SFDs I see these days. I am not sure of my micron rating or the material. I have read it could be PTFE (teflon). Mine do not appear to have different sides though, i.e. he said his are hydrophobic on one side.

I got mine many years ago and I think the seller was a sponsor here at the time, only selling discs, and people had reported they were fine before I got them.

They were so thin and breathable that I did worry about them on larger holes, so I just double up on those. I have had none fail by tearing etc, they are actually very tough, it would be difficult to rip one in 2. Filters on my autoclave bags were far less breathable.

Some old pics of my discs



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OfflineWienerwoods
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Re: Will these synthetic filter discs work? [Re: blackout]
    #23670204 - 09/23/16 06:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

When I make more lids I'll try only putting on a single layer.

It actually seems that both sides are equally hydrophobic, at least at room temperature. They're just different materials. In the initial picture you can see the two filters stacked, the one below the other is facing rubbery side up, the one on top shows the slick, fibery side. Even if I smear either side with water it'll just stay beaded and the filter won't get soaked.

Also, trying to rip a piece off by hand is really hard, and this is what happens when the rubber finally gives in:


I don't think durability is going to be an issue.


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Edited by Wienerwoods (09/23/16 06:48 AM)


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OfflineBobabouy
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Re: Will these synthetic filter discs work? [Re: Wienerwoods]
    #23670219 - 09/23/16 06:56 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

This is just me, but instead of doubling up on the top of the lid, I would put one on each side of the hole (top of lid and bottom of lid). I would place the hydro barrier side up on the top of the lid and face the barrier down on the underside of the lid. Probably makes no difference but might help get you a little more gas exchange.


Edited by Bobabouy (09/23/16 06:57 AM)


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OfflineWienerwoods
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Re: Will these synthetic filter discs work? [Re: Bobabouy]
    #23676935 - 09/25/16 02:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Just got an awesome response to my inquiry about the filters from the vendor. They say that the filters consist of 'polytetrafluoroethylene (PDHE)' and are manufactured by Sigma-Aldrich UK.

They can supposedly take every bit as much abuse as their thicker counterparts and are 'as they are because they are high quality filters that need to be no thicker to achieve the specified pore size'.

That definitely sounds convincing but we'll see.


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OfflineGreg
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Re: Will these synthetic filter discs work? [Re: Wienerwoods] * 1
    #23677001 - 09/25/16 02:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I've always wondered why they don't use Teflon for filter disks, as it is microporous by nature.
I guess that's my answer then!

Let us know how they work.

I feel the need to be a bit pedantic here though:
If they are polytetrafluoroethylene then the correct acronym is actually PTFE.


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OfflineWienerwoods
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Re: Will these synthetic filter discs work? [Re: Greg]
    #23713930 - 10/06/16 05:50 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Having put these filters to the test I can conclude them to be functional af.



These are the four original pint jars I made and they've all colonized and re-consolidated without any problems. I pressure cooked them without foil lids and water remained outside. I let them sit in the unopened pressure cooker for roughly 24 hours before successfully doing my first ever grain-to-grain transfer. The only thing that seemed to be able to briefly soak into the filter was 70% isopropyl alcohol, but the filters were dry almost instantly.

Obviously this still doesn't prove that they're 100% foolproof but I can certainly tell already that they work way better than double layers of micropore tape.

I have four new jars cooling down in the pressure cooker as I'm writing, only this time I adhered a single layer of filter on the lids instead of two and excluded the injection port. Seeing as I can make dozens of lids from the two 90mm filters I bought for a couple of pounds each, it's not a bad deal at all.


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