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OfflinePorkzirra
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Browning blue oysters
    #23664918 - 09/21/16 12:26 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hi all, I have a martha set up with a fogger and cool mist. Maintaining 90-95% humidity. Cool mist running every 45 minutes. My pink oysters and Reishi logs are doing great but my blues are not. They are getting big and then browning out. I'm not sure what the deal is, some clusters are doing fin and others aren't. Any ideas?



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OfflineJanuaryWolf
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Porkzirra]
    #23665024 - 09/21/16 01:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Those mushrooms are suffocating in CO2 and need fresh air.


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OfflinePorkzirra
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: JanuaryWolf]
    #23665174 - 09/21/16 02:07 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I was thinking the same thing but they are on the top right next to a hole in the martha and the cool mist is blasting for 15 mins every 45. Guess I'll try adjusting. Thanks!


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OfflinePorkzirra
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Porkzirra]
    #23665308 - 09/21/16 02:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Another question then I guess. Leaving the zippers open on this drops the humidity to 70-85 and I can't maintain 95%. The cool mist kicks on and pushes the humidity out which appears to be the culprit. From reading tons of post on this, people say to leave the cool mist on 24/7 and run the ultrasonic for only 15 minutes an hour.

Doing this, how does one maintain 95% humidity?


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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Porkzirra]
    #23665435 - 09/21/16 03:35 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Fresh air is more important than the humidity. I have had them fruit in the house at 55% humidity. Keep humidity as high as possible with fresh air. Make side your cool mist doesn't have a filter and is the impeller type. Leave cool mist run 24\7 and play with ultrasonic. Some ultrasonics are adjustable.


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Edited by Quadman (09/21/16 03:37 PM)


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OfflinePorkzirra
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Quadman]
    #23665583 - 09/21/16 04:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

So the cool mist I have is the vicks one. Has a filter inside it, are you saying to take that out? Seems simple enough.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Porkzirra]
    #23665712 - 09/21/16 05:01 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Closeup of the yellow patches please. Also what does the substrate and fruits smell like?
If your other fruits are doing fine in the same setup, it could be bacteria.

Other thing is what variant of blue is that, cold or warm?


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Offlineanthiawe
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Quadman]
    #23665764 - 09/21/16 05:21 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Quadman said:
Fresh air is more important than the humidity. I have had them fruit in the house at 55% humidity. Keep humidity as high as possible with fresh air. Make side your cool mist doesn't have a filter and is the impeller type. Leave cool mist run 24\7 and play with ultrasonic. Some ultrasonics are adjustable.



:whathesaid: - they are suffocating, major sign of high CO2 is the long step and small cap


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OfflineQuadman
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: anthiawe]
    #23665828 - 09/21/16 05:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

No I'm saying that the cool mist you want have a motor with impeller attached to it, this just sits on the water tank impeller spins and throws water droplets and lots of air. The filter ones work by evaporation not enough air and water. Search cool mist on forum.

Quick fix , open sides up and crank up ultrasonic.


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Edited by Quadman (09/21/16 05:49 PM)


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OfflineTravelAgency
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Quadman]
    #23666955 - 09/22/16 12:56 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

They are spending their energy stretching out in their search for fresh air! Can you provide full pics of your set up perhaps we can figure something out to get these guys what they need!


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OfflinePorkzirra
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: TravelAgency]
    #23667788 - 09/22/16 11:32 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Here's a pic of the setup. Cool mist at the bottom, ultrasonic reptile mister at the top, zipper up, small 3"x 3" sections cut out on the sides near the top. (jugs are frozen on bottom, just placed in this morning for the king oyster jars, may move these to a tub).

I moved the light back to take the pic.




I've had a few successful grows of these same blues before as well as some other blues. It is good to note that these have been white and the others were blue... I'm not sure what temp they are supposed to be for, came in a multiple liquid culture purchase months ago. I'd have to go through receipts and see where I got them from to confirm.

I am starting to notice a smell, not a bad one but a stronger one (great description eh?)

Pinks were looking good yesterday and look a bit dry today, I did change the cool mist yesterday to run 24/7.


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OfflinePorkzirra
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Porkzirra]
    #23667834 - 09/22/16 11:48 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Here's one from the first flush:



This would of been the 2nd.

I'm starting to lean towards this being bacteria. However, I am only about 4-5 months into doing gourmets.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Porkzirra]
    #23667922 - 09/22/16 12:25 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

As I said its most likely to be bacteria. Too deformed for FAE.
Your first flush is fine, and I see no real issues.

The is also no yellow goo in that image.
The other image has metabolites.

Lets compare the two images:

   

Notice the yellow pools.


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OfflinePorkzirra
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Ferather]
    #23668073 - 09/22/16 01:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yep. Bottom right. Any guess on what the cause could be? Maybe to much moisture? I'll do some digging.


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OfflineQuadman
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Porkzirra]
    #23668116 - 09/22/16 01:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8974342#8974342
I concede you probably have bacteria. Your picture of other grow still indicates you need more fresh air. The link is RR advice on cool mist. Just search: cool mist and post by: Roger Rabbit.

Another question - how many mushrooms were in your chamber on that first grow? Remember the more mushrooms the more CO2 therefore the need for more fresh air.


--------------------


Edited by Quadman (09/22/16 01:34 PM)


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Porkzirra]
    #23668122 - 09/22/16 01:33 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Too much moisture, or condensate on the surface can cause it, correct.
Not sure if thats is what happened, or how it got infected.

Is that supplemented with any kind of grain?


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

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OfflineQuadman
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Ferather]
    #23668132 - 09/22/16 01:37 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Bacteria= grain or unclean spawn or environment when inoculated
Excess moisture i don't believe is a cause it is just a condition that favors the bacteria.


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Edited by Quadman (09/22/16 01:40 PM)


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Quadman]
    #23668142 - 09/22/16 01:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Quadman said:
Bacteria= grain or unclean spawn or environment when inoculated
Excess moisture i don't believe is a cause it is just a condition that favors the bacteria.





Pretty much Quadman, agreed.


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

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OfflinePorkzirra
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Ferather]
    #23668377 - 09/22/16 02:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I did 9 Jars of rye berries. Soaked and then brought to a boil. Drained and cooled. Smelled like puke! Sterilized it (this sucked - puke smell) > cooled > inoculated. No longer smelled like puke once colonized 100%.

So far, only this log has this issue from all the logs I made. The 2nd blue log though... Now has me suspicious.

Thanks!


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Porkzirra]
    #23668406 - 09/22/16 03:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah that puke smell, you activated an aggressive bacteria and grew it out.
You have too many endospores, which are tough to remove.

If you have to soak, keep at 60°C for the duration.
Else use fresh boiled water, keep replacing.

Heat plates work well here.


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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OfflineTravelAgency
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Porkzirra]
    #23668491 - 09/22/16 03:29 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah you definitely need more FAE. Do you have a fan circulating the air in your room and have a window open? I have a 6in fan in and a 6in fan out ducts out the window- and I still some FAE issues sometimes.


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OfflinePorkzirra
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: TravelAgency]
    #23670737 - 09/23/16 11:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hmm... So the usual soak of rye berries, I have only covered with water and a lid > let soak 12-16 hours > boil for 10 minutes. That's what I understood to be the correct way. You're saying keeping the rye at 60C for that duration is a better approach? I can do that if that is the case.


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OfflineJanuaryWolf
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Porkzirra]
    #23671011 - 09/23/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Porkzirra said:
Hmm... So the usual soak of rye berries, I have only covered with water and a lid > let soak 12-16 hours > boil for 10 minutes. That's what I understood to be the correct way. You're saying keeping the rye at 60C for that duration is a better approach? I can do that if that is the case.



I've found when making grain, over soaking can be a problem. Your substrates should never smell bad.

My method doesn't take very long and works: When I make my master grain jars I don't soak the grains because if over done they can end up mushy and don't break up as well, which is the whole point of growing mycelium on grain (getting more inoculation points). I'll just cook them in a rolling boil until the smell is strong and good, kind of like fresh bread. Then strain the grains while hot where water evaporates off rapidly. I'll immediately jar the grains and add a tbs or less of gypsum, shake the jars then pressure cook for @15psi for 90 mins.

When doing bulk grain: I'll soak for 12-18hrs overnight in 5 gallon buckets. Strain, rinse, air dry, add gypsum, bag and pressure cook @1-2psi for 10hrs.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: JanuaryWolf]
    #23671032 - 09/23/16 12:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Ok, read all of this, that 12-18 hour soak is such a bad idea.
You must maintain minimum cooking conditions.

This means keeping it hot.


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: JanuaryWolf]
    #23671117 - 09/23/16 01:33 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JanuaryWolf said:
Quote:

Porkzirra said:
Hmm... So the usual soak of rye berries, I have only covered with water and a lid > let soak 12-16 hours > boil for 10 minutes. That's what I understood to be the correct way. You're saying keeping the rye at 60C for that duration is a better approach? I can do that if that is the case.



I've found when making grain, over soaking can be a problem. Your substrates should never smell bad.

My method doesn't take very long and works: When I make my master grain jars I don't soak the grains because if over done they can end up mushy and don't break up as well, which is the whole point of growing mycelium on grain (getting more inoculation points). I'll just cook them in a rolling boil until the smell is strong and good, kind of like fresh bread. Then strain the grains while hot where water evaporates off rapidly. I'll immediately jar the grains and add a tbs or less of gypsum, shake the jars then pressure cook for @15psi for 90 mins.

When doing bulk grain: I'll soak for 12-18hrs overnight in 5 gallon buckets. Strain, rinse, air dry, add gypsum, bag and pressure cook @1-2psi for 10hrs.



This sounds good.


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OfflineJanuaryWolf
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Ferather]
    #23671552 - 09/23/16 04:10 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Ok, read all of this, that 12-18 hour soak is such a bad idea.
You must maintain minimum cooking conditions.

This means keeping it hot.




"When a bacterium detects environmental conditions are becoming unfavourable it may start the process of endosporulation, which takes about eight hours."

Yeah you're right it's not the best, it has been okay for vigorous species, but always room to improve! I'm all for reducing contams and improving flushes.
The goal is to hydrate the grains. If over 8 hours is the danger zone, I will try a 6hr soak and see if my grains can be hydrated in that amount of time. (the bigger the grain the more time it will take)
Cooking 15gallons worth of grain would be an ordeal for my current set-up, so what do you think about that plan?
After the soak and strain I sterilize for 10 hours at 216 Fahrenheit. 
TY Ferather!


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OfflineJanuaryWolf
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: JanuaryWolf]
    #23671583 - 09/23/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

On bacterial endospores:

"While significantly resistant to heat and radiation, endospores can be destroyed by burning or by autoclaving at a temperature exceeding the boiling point of water, 100 °C (212°F) . Endospores are able to survive at 100 °C for hours, although the longer the number of hours the fewer that will survive."


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: JanuaryWolf]
    #23671589 - 09/23/16 04:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

When I cook rice, I soak in hot boiled water for 60 minutes, then repeat.
If you soak with unused tea, you will reduce bacterial activity.

Tea has anti-bacterial effects, fungus love tea leaves.
You end up with richer, resistant dark grain.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: JanuaryWolf]
    #23671594 - 09/23/16 04:24 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JanuaryWolf said:
On bacterial endospores:

"While significantly resistant to heat and radiation, endospores can be destroyed by burning or by autoclaving at a temperature exceeding the boiling point of water, 100 °C (212°F) . Endospores are able to survive at 100 °C for hours, although the longer the number of hours the fewer that will survive."




How long does it take to kill 1000 endospores, then 100,000,000 because you soaked for too long?


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.


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OfflineTravelAgency
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Ferather]
    #23671630 - 09/23/16 04:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

:takingnotes:


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Offlineshroombasa
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Ferather]
    #23674500 - 09/24/16 04:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Quote:

JanuaryWolf said:
On bacterial endospores:

"While significantly resistant to heat and radiation, endospores can be destroyed by burning or by autoclaving at a temperature exceeding the boiling point of water, 100 °C (212°F) . Endospores are able to survive at 100 °C for hours, although the longer the number of hours the fewer that will survive."




How long does it take to kill 1000 endospores, then 100,000,000 because you soaked for too long?



These are from a PowerPoint I snagged a while back.  I think it's from Concordia University in Montreal, but I'm not 100%.  The info is consistent with everything else I've read on endospores so far.

 

Endospores are a non-issue if you're sterilizing under pressure.  If you're trying to do fractional sterilization, then spore load becomes a factor.  This isn't a direct link, but RR is quoted on his view a few posts down.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: shroombasa]
    #23674547 - 09/24/16 04:47 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Awesome images thanks shroombasa. So there you go, long soak = bad idea.
So how do you prepare grains using the pressure cooker?

Or is my keeping it hot, max 4 hours idea fine?
Maybe cook using the hob then PC it?


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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