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OfflineTravelAgency
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Registered: 12/25/10
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Porkzirra]
    #23668491 - 09/22/16 03:29 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah you definitely need more FAE. Do you have a fan circulating the air in your room and have a window open? I have a 6in fan in and a 6in fan out ducts out the window- and I still some FAE issues sometimes.


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OfflinePorkzirra
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: TravelAgency]
    #23670737 - 09/23/16 11:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hmm... So the usual soak of rye berries, I have only covered with water and a lid > let soak 12-16 hours > boil for 10 minutes. That's what I understood to be the correct way. You're saying keeping the rye at 60C for that duration is a better approach? I can do that if that is the case.


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OfflineJanuaryWolf
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Porkzirra]
    #23671011 - 09/23/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Porkzirra said:
Hmm... So the usual soak of rye berries, I have only covered with water and a lid > let soak 12-16 hours > boil for 10 minutes. That's what I understood to be the correct way. You're saying keeping the rye at 60C for that duration is a better approach? I can do that if that is the case.



I've found when making grain, over soaking can be a problem. Your substrates should never smell bad.

My method doesn't take very long and works: When I make my master grain jars I don't soak the grains because if over done they can end up mushy and don't break up as well, which is the whole point of growing mycelium on grain (getting more inoculation points). I'll just cook them in a rolling boil until the smell is strong and good, kind of like fresh bread. Then strain the grains while hot where water evaporates off rapidly. I'll immediately jar the grains and add a tbs or less of gypsum, shake the jars then pressure cook for @15psi for 90 mins.

When doing bulk grain: I'll soak for 12-18hrs overnight in 5 gallon buckets. Strain, rinse, air dry, add gypsum, bag and pressure cook @1-2psi for 10hrs.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: JanuaryWolf]
    #23671032 - 09/23/16 12:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Ok, read all of this, that 12-18 hour soak is such a bad idea.
You must maintain minimum cooking conditions.

This means keeping it hot.


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: JanuaryWolf]
    #23671117 - 09/23/16 01:33 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JanuaryWolf said:
Quote:

Porkzirra said:
Hmm... So the usual soak of rye berries, I have only covered with water and a lid > let soak 12-16 hours > boil for 10 minutes. That's what I understood to be the correct way. You're saying keeping the rye at 60C for that duration is a better approach? I can do that if that is the case.



I've found when making grain, over soaking can be a problem. Your substrates should never smell bad.

My method doesn't take very long and works: When I make my master grain jars I don't soak the grains because if over done they can end up mushy and don't break up as well, which is the whole point of growing mycelium on grain (getting more inoculation points). I'll just cook them in a rolling boil until the smell is strong and good, kind of like fresh bread. Then strain the grains while hot where water evaporates off rapidly. I'll immediately jar the grains and add a tbs or less of gypsum, shake the jars then pressure cook for @15psi for 90 mins.

When doing bulk grain: I'll soak for 12-18hrs overnight in 5 gallon buckets. Strain, rinse, air dry, add gypsum, bag and pressure cook @1-2psi for 10hrs.



This sounds good.


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OfflineJanuaryWolf
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Ferather]
    #23671552 - 09/23/16 04:10 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Ok, read all of this, that 12-18 hour soak is such a bad idea.
You must maintain minimum cooking conditions.

This means keeping it hot.




"When a bacterium detects environmental conditions are becoming unfavourable it may start the process of endosporulation, which takes about eight hours."

Yeah you're right it's not the best, it has been okay for vigorous species, but always room to improve! I'm all for reducing contams and improving flushes.
The goal is to hydrate the grains. If over 8 hours is the danger zone, I will try a 6hr soak and see if my grains can be hydrated in that amount of time. (the bigger the grain the more time it will take)
Cooking 15gallons worth of grain would be an ordeal for my current set-up, so what do you think about that plan?
After the soak and strain I sterilize for 10 hours at 216 Fahrenheit. 
TY Ferather!


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OfflineJanuaryWolf
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: JanuaryWolf]
    #23671583 - 09/23/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

On bacterial endospores:

"While significantly resistant to heat and radiation, endospores can be destroyed by burning or by autoclaving at a temperature exceeding the boiling point of water, 100 °C (212°F) . Endospores are able to survive at 100 °C for hours, although the longer the number of hours the fewer that will survive."


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: JanuaryWolf]
    #23671589 - 09/23/16 04:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

When I cook rice, I soak in hot boiled water for 60 minutes, then repeat.
If you soak with unused tea, you will reduce bacterial activity.

Tea has anti-bacterial effects, fungus love tea leaves.
You end up with richer, resistant dark grain.


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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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OfflineFerather
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: JanuaryWolf]
    #23671594 - 09/23/16 04:24 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JanuaryWolf said:
On bacterial endospores:

"While significantly resistant to heat and radiation, endospores can be destroyed by burning or by autoclaving at a temperature exceeding the boiling point of water, 100 °C (212°F) . Endospores are able to survive at 100 °C for hours, although the longer the number of hours the fewer that will survive."




How long does it take to kill 1000 endospores, then 100,000,000 because you soaked for too long?


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.


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OfflineTravelAgency
The ongoing "wow"


Registered: 12/25/10
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Ferather]
    #23671630 - 09/23/16 04:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

:takingnotes:


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Offlineshroombasa
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Registered: 05/02/15
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: Ferather]
    #23674500 - 09/24/16 04:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Quote:

JanuaryWolf said:
On bacterial endospores:

"While significantly resistant to heat and radiation, endospores can be destroyed by burning or by autoclaving at a temperature exceeding the boiling point of water, 100 °C (212°F) . Endospores are able to survive at 100 °C for hours, although the longer the number of hours the fewer that will survive."




How long does it take to kill 1000 endospores, then 100,000,000 because you soaked for too long?



These are from a PowerPoint I snagged a while back.  I think it's from Concordia University in Montreal, but I'm not 100%.  The info is consistent with everything else I've read on endospores so far.

 

Endospores are a non-issue if you're sterilizing under pressure.  If you're trying to do fractional sterilization, then spore load becomes a factor.  This isn't a direct link, but RR is quoted on his view a few posts down.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Browning blue oysters [Re: shroombasa]
    #23674547 - 09/24/16 04:47 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Awesome images thanks shroombasa. So there you go, long soak = bad idea.
So how do you prepare grains using the pressure cooker?

Or is my keeping it hot, max 4 hours idea fine?
Maybe cook using the hob then PC it?


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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