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InvisibleMarty Mycfly
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I need some business advice
    #23661994 - 09/20/16 02:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

First off, hey guys :hi:
I have been MIA for a bit, the summer kicked my ass as well as few other setbacks in my venture, my grow room has been down and I have been completely stagnate.
The plan is to be back up and running ASAP, I need to really pay attention to making a profit now, I spent all of last year investing and losing money, mainly from not being able to get rid of my mushrooms. I spent the bulk of time and energy growing Eryngii, which I love, but I feel the cost of growing eryngii vs. what I was getting out of it was not working out.

I would love some advice on where to go from here, my main cost has been fuel pellets, I can't get them cheap here and has probably been the main cost in my cultivation so I am considering moving into straw at least for now, I am inexperienced working with straw and poly tubing but I have some of the equipment for it. If I move into straw I plan on growing amycel 3015, I have a culture of it but will initially be buying the spawn to get going.
How much cheaper is it to grow from straw in the end, will I be saving myself money moving into straw?

One other thing I am wondering about, is buying shiitaki blocks? How economically viable is it buying shiitaki blocks and fruiting them, I would love to have another variety besides grey oysters to sell, but like I was saying the sawdust is my biggest issue and I know a few of you buy blocks.

Now lastly, I want to get into the local grocery stores around here, I had never approached them when I had the Eryngii going, we have a few co-ops and localized groceries besides the big ones, does anyone have experience approaching smaller stores and what things I need to be able to sell to them?

Anyways, I still have a lot on my mind and may be asking a few more questions throughout this thread, but thanks for reading guys and ANY help, ideas, brainstorming will be great:super:


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23662094 - 09/20/16 03:12 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hey MM,
I don't want to sound pessimistic, but if you can't sell the mushrooms you grow and aren't sure what the main cost in your operation is, then I think you might need to step back and reassess.  Put together a business plan, etc. and even more importantly, develop a customer base.  Grocers, as well as any corporate or anything bigger than mom and pop restaurants are going to require that you have third party GAP certification.  As mushrooms are considered a raw agricultural product, depending on where you are, they aren't regulated by your state ag. dept. or your local health dept. I'd reach out to the local extension office, state ag. dept., etc. to verify.  Penn State developed the MGAP guidelines...you might take a look at that as well...I would think any legitimate operation would be following that...Good luck, man!


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Offlineanthiawe
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23662103 - 09/20/16 03:17 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

hey marty,

you need do do some market research and also calculating your cost of production. all those stores you're talking about need to be called and a discussion needs to take place on what a fair price would be. also need to check out whats already on the shelves and the retail prices..along with the restaurants around you and how far you plan to go to make deliveries. an entire business plan really.


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InvisibleMarty Mycfly
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23662172 - 09/20/16 03:42 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks Colorado, I understand being pessimistic, I took the last few months off  to try an reassess, I will say when we got into full production finally it had already become 100+ degrees outside everyday and the farmers markets we went to were really dead, and we had to stop due to some other life events before we made it around to chefs, which is the main goal, the co-op inquiry is more for farther down the line.
We want to put together a way better business plan and give it another go, now that we have everything else invested except raw material we seem to be in a much better position, better weather for the farmers markets until we get chefs.
I guess I mainly am wondering if cutting down the cost on material by moving to straw is a good choice for at least a couple of good runs.I like growing on sawdust and it's what I know well and I know the quality of fruit is better, my main issue is sourcing sawdust and pellets and that was the main expense.


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OfflineQuadman
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: anthiawe]
    #23662190 - 09/20/16 03:47 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hey Marty  :hi:  I was self employed most my life. Sounds like you want to be wholesale. What the guys are saying are spot on. This is a terribly tough business. You are growing (large amount of variables) marketing and selling a perishable commodity.  Wholesale puts margins low, so you generally have to produce volume to boost income.

Without knowing even general area of geographics make assessing options more difficult to look at.

A business plan and detailed records are need and then I would put together a model cash flow.

This is a rewarding fun hobby. Make sure it can be a successful business before keep pouring more cash and time into it.


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23662211 - 09/20/16 03:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Gotcha...straw is a real pain in the ass and takes up a lot more space than sawdust blocks, but is really cheap.  In Colorado, it goes for $70-$100 per ton, so at that price, you should be able earn a profit. Also, hardwood furniture shops will give you the sawdust if you can find any in your neck of the woods.


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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Quadman]
    #23662214 - 09/20/16 03:54 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Why is straw readily available and sawdust/ chips not??


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InvisibleMarty Mycfly
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Quadman]
    #23662217 - 09/20/16 03:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks quad, that's why I'm here asking, and to be honest it's kind of hard to asking this stuff after failing. But I have to get a business plan together so here I am with my tail between my legs:sad:
My wife makes good money and works from home and I am a self employed musician, so we are both in a position to work on a business from home while still doing what we are doing.


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Re: I need some business advice [Re: anthiawe]
    #23662226 - 09/20/16 03:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

If there are too many competitors then try looking for a species, strain or variant they don't sell.

Try to cultivate mushrooms that require the least attention, such as fruiting temperature.
Having to run extra machines or devices to reduce the temp is more money.

Try a large plant pot grow, cased in wood rich compost.
The casing needs to be around and on top.

   

Water like plants, excess will drain.


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23662234 - 09/20/16 04:02 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hey man , never say that, failing is not part of the equation. You have valuable experience that teaches ways to improve or change direction. It's what you do with information that is important. Edison never failed he found a thousand ways to not make a light bulb .


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Edited by Quadman (09/20/16 04:04 PM)


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InvisibleMarty Mycfly
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Quadman]
    #23662246 - 09/20/16 04:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Quadman said:
Why is straw readily available and sawdust/ chips not??




Hardwood sawdust has been hard to find, I can buy it in town but only in fuel pellet form and it's the expensive stuff made for bbq's, I have had ordered it but it's not much cheaper, and also I live in a hot dry climate so no one uses pellet stoves and no one carries pellet fuel except for bbq's, even tractor supply here has no idea what I'm talking about. But, I live where there is a ton of feed stores and livestock so straw is always here, I just stayed away from it because it seems messy and see people get better results on sawdust.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23662251 - 09/20/16 04:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Try paper pellets, chemical free. Pet stores or pet sections in shops.

   


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

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InvisibleMarty Mycfly
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Ferather]
    #23662255 - 09/20/16 04:07 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I was there the other day and definitely thought of you ferather:thumbup:
How have you been?


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OfflineQuadman
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23662264 - 09/20/16 04:11 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I would guess your out in the plains/ southwest. Tractor supply should be able to source fuel pellets by the pallet. You don't have any cottonwood in your area? Consider processing cardboard?


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OfflineFerather
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23662267 - 09/20/16 04:12 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Marty Mycfly said:
I was there the other day and definitely thought of you ferather:thumbup:
How have you been?




I'm doing well thanks. Got some new rare and unique strain variants to grow.
I am very happy to finally find a vendor for both, in one place.

Good progress with growing, lots of new data.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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InvisibleMarty Mycfly
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Quadman]
    #23662731 - 09/20/16 07:02 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Quadman said:
I would guess your out in the plains/ southwest. Tractor supply should be able to source fuel pellets by the pallet. You don't have any cottonwood in your area? Consider processing cardboard?




Southwest
We do have cottonwoods on the rivers and washes around here.
A while back I made a thread on here about prickly pear substrate, I read in GGMM that oysters grow on them, in fact there is a strain of oyster native to prickly pear, that interests me because it is a major weed where I live and after taking more notice of them almost half the species growing around here wild are needless(non needle?) variety.
I had meant to do some tests with that while I was producing lots of spawn, but I am going to definitely take a second look at that once I get on my feet again.


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OfflineQuadman
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23662937 - 09/20/16 08:00 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Consider looking for someone who mills cottonwood. Oysters in the wild I have found mostly on willow and cottonwood.
Was just reading research article on corncob and other substrates. CC produced best quality fruit but took a little longer. Perhaps someone can order in CC bedding for you. It is dirt cheap here.
The cactus sounds interesting.
YouTube videos on processing cardboard look interesting to me. Paper products usually free for the processing.


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InvisibleMarty Mycfly
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Quadman]
    #23663053 - 09/20/16 08:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I should definitely see if I can find any mills near by, thanks quad. That's really my main issue is keeping supplies down at a lower cost while still having a quality product.
If I can get my sources for the hardwood in working order I am thinking of switching to shiitaki, I love growing the oysters and still will, but I would rather a lot less because the spores had gotten really hard on me, no matter what I did wearing the mask, making sure exhaust was spectacular, but just some spores getting on my clothes would make me sick.


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InvisibleMarty Mycfly
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23665615 - 09/21/16 04:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

So the wife and I were looking at spawn last night, and we came to the conclusion that we don't want not grow oysters this winter, I have been really allergic to the spores for some time and towards the end of the grow last season she started to become infected, and we take every precaution.
Reading and commenting on c10's thread I can feel the misery already.
We are thinking of two cold weather varieties that will grow in the same room, maybe Enoki and shiitaki, what do you guys think about those growing together? I have zero experience with both, but I do grow on sawdust and am set up for running those. Any advise or wisdom on getting away from oysters?
The Enoki is a HUGE mushroom in my town right now, a ton of soup places that use these on their main menu, but they all have them shipped in, I was thinking it may be a nitch to get in to.


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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23665696 - 09/21/16 04:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Soup you say, how about a very uncommon and very tasty Nameko mushroom.
All hardwoods and softwoods are suitable, pretty much eats anything.

Here are two more I found that look visually good.

Brick caps (Hypholoma sublateritium)
Velvet foot (Flammulina velutipes)


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23665698 - 09/21/16 04:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I think there is definitely an Asian/Chinese restaurant niche that could be taken advantage of, the problem I believe though is competing with Chinese suppliers...Don't know anything about enoki but I'm pretty sure shitake take a bit longer than oysters due to block browning...?


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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23665859 - 09/21/16 05:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Might consider pioppino they are supposed to be tasty. Never had them. They like it cool.

Someone was just complaining that they weren't doing well with king not enough BE and slow growing.


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Edited by Quadman (09/21/16 06:00 PM)


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InvisibleMarty Mycfly
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Quadman]
    #23673963 - 09/24/16 01:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

So I have found a mill near by, it's mainly mesquite, but as much as I want.
I have heard differing opinions on mesquite, anyone with actual mesquite experience have any input? So far the only species we for sure will be growing this winter is reishi, but if there are certain mushrooms that do well on mesquite this will help us decide what else to grow.


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Mycfly's King Oysters                                       

Mycfly's Reishi    

                                                 


Edited by Marty Mycfly (09/24/16 01:10 PM)


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InvisibleMarty Mycfly
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23674457 - 09/24/16 04:18 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Ok, I have found some grill pellets super cheap(cheaper than traeger)
called, Perfect Mix grilling pellets, it says 100% hardwood no oak or alder fillers, heres what it says
"Perfect Mix Pellets are made from the 4 top smoking woods
The Perfect Mix is a Hickory base with Cherry, Hard Maple and Apple. We only use heart woods (center of the log) to make our pellets, never any bark. Bark has twice the Lignin (a natural binder and fuel source) so more heat and more ash when used in pellets."


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Mycfly's King Oysters                                       

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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23674497 - 09/24/16 04:29 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Very nice, 4 wood mix, good variation of carbon and nutrients.
I was looking at apple and smoking wood the other day.

Ferather thumbs up    :thumbup:


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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InvisibleMarty Mycfly
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Ferather]
    #23674570 - 09/24/16 04:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup: Nice, thanks dude.


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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23676612 - 09/25/16 12:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Just to share some business experience:

Getting into the restaurants has been mostly misses. I only have one amazing restaurant client because they really care about the quality of food more than their bottom line. My town is very pro-local food movement but even the places that claim to support that, don't want to bother with certain mushrooms ie oysters or my guess is deal with individual suppliers when they can order everything from one big company. So you have to be relentless and annoying for chefs to try out your product. You'll need to have consistency if they are going to put your mushrooms on their menu. Farm to table restaurants are great places to try, places that change their menus for the season. Restaurants with a high price point so they can afford to pay you a fair price is very important.

Marketing takes a lot of practice and effort. I love farmers markets for exposure and informing people, (at least in my area) folks know nothing about different gourmet mushrooms. They don't know how to cook them and you have to be able to sell it. People are afraid of new things, so knowing how to describe their taste in an appetizing way is important. Or toting their medicinal benefits is how I encourage people to try the oh so strange looking Lion's Mane Mushroom. But, not all markets are good for produce sales, not all markets are busy so you might get into the wrong place and waste your time.

This business is a hard one to make it in. I wish you so much luck, but more than that if it's something you truly are passionate about then you have to know the master has failed more times than the novice has attempted. So the more you try, you'll figure out how to make it work.


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Re: I need some business advice [Re: JanuaryWolf]
    #23676651 - 09/25/16 12:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I think it's super important to speak to chefs in-person with your product in-hand.  Your product should do all the talking, really.  Any chef worth their salt will sit up and take notice if you have a gorgeous flat of mushrooms with you(don't take them in a bag, use flats).  You're not going to have luck trying to sell your mushrooms to any corporate restaurant.


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Mycolorado’s Tamp Fruit Project
Tampanensis Grow with Mycolorado
bw86's Jalisco Grow


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InvisibleMarty Mycfly
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Re: I need some business advice [Re: Mycolorado]
    #23676844 - 09/25/16 01:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for all the input guys:thumbup:
I will explain in a little more detail about our situation, last year my wife and I decided to start investing in mushrooms after having good success and fun hobby growing, I started up Eryngii and Ostreatus and everything went smoothly,  around the beginning of summer I was in full production and ready for the farmers market, we had a few farmers markets that were really unsuccessful due to the weather here in Arizona already being 100+ and also it was a completely miserable being out there in that heat.
All of a sudden we had a death in the family and had to leave out of state immediately with no one to watch over the grow room, so I just shut it down and left.
When we returned we planned on starting everything back up ASAP and concentrating on chefs at least until it was a better farmers market season, but when we returned home we had HUGE problem erupt over social media concerning our business name, I wanted to vent about it here but felt it was inappropriate at the time, enough time has passed though I will talk about it.
I live in Tucson Arizona, The local nick name for our city is the old pueblo, so we have a ton of businesses using that, Old Pueblo Automotive, Old Pueblo dentistry ect... So we named our business Old Pueblo Mushrooms, we liked it and it fit the region and my wife made a bad ass logo with a pueblo.
The business name was open, thankfully we didn't register it yet because when we came home from leaving town our social media page we had made for the name became shit show! So there used to be a company with the name "Old Pueblo Mushroom Growers", who after researching we found were active with this name until a few years ago when they changed their name and their business model to produce, and don't grow mushrooms.
So all of a sudden we had people leaving us bad reviews and talking mad shit on our FB page saying we stole these peoples name, were trying to ride on whatever success they had, wishing us failure, until finally I reached out to the company in question, they were really nice though I suspect they personally sent all of the hate towards us, he said he didnt like us using that name because it was close to his old business name, even though they had changed their name and model completely.
Even though we have every right to use Old Pueblo and our name is literally different, the farmers market community is tight here and every person involved in the scene knew the drama. So we gave it up, and let the grow go until this winter, in which we are trying to get a new foot. Though I will sell at the farmers market here, I don't want to be involved with that scene after this whole thing, I will do it to if I have to, but I am definitely going to be spending my time approaching chefs.
Anyways sorry to vent, but I thought it was valid for this thread to get an idea where Im coming from more.


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Mycfly's King Oysters                                       

Mycfly's Reishi    

                                                 


Edited by Marty Mycfly (09/25/16 01:53 PM)


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OfflineImperius
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/15
Posts: 88
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: I need some business advice [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #23677076 - 09/25/16 03:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Wow, sorry you have to deal with that petty bullcrap. Shrooms are hard enough to peddle as it is, even without unwarranted hate.

All the best.


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OfflineQuadman
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Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/16
Posts: 2,529
Loc: IL Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: I need some business advice [Re: Imperius]
    #23677209 - 09/25/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

It's hard to believe,but something as simple as a name can make or break you.Wishing you success in your new attempt.


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