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Invisibledankington
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Re: whats going on here [Re: amidogen]
    #23700393 - 10/02/16 02:03 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Bruising can be the result of many types of trauma. You must also take into consideration anastomosis.

Pussyfart (back when he wasn't a hacker) had gotten a spores 101 syringe. As has happened to many of us that've gotten their products, he had oysters infest his cubensis cakes.

Mudafuka had oysters that would bruise blue.

Substrates that get too dry, and then are over watered to make up for it often bruise too.

[edit: another example I just realized, I've heard of people getting blobs of mycogone that will also bruise blue. I've heard they were extremely potent too.]

It's entirely possible there is white mold that has intertwined with cube myc to the point it bruises too. I've not seen it happen, but there is evidence to support the possibility. It could 'just be bacteria', but as Mad pointed out, without a microscope, making that assumption is simply just that; an assumption.


Edited by dankington (10/03/16 07:03 AM)


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Offlinelvnthalife
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Re: whats going on here [Re: amidogen]
    #23700400 - 10/02/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

If your referring to me i dont recall ever saying anyone was wrong. All this entire thread has been about is letting the tub continue and see what happens instead of being thrown out.

As for it being another type of mycelium, it is possible. I just dont think its likely.

I didnt own another species until after the fact. The same dishes were used for multiple transfers and jars. The tub made before this one turned out fine.

As i stated before, I THINK that it is due extreme temperature fluctuations that caused serious condensation and bacterial jars there were old and abused.

Again, im not an expert.

To concede to any point without any discussion, updates, or notes would completely defeat the purpose of letting the tub continue.


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: whats going on here [Re: amidogen]
    #23700413 - 10/02/16 02:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)



I had the very similar contamination (above) recently.  This was my first effort growing with coir in monotubs, and the sub was coir/verm (no gypsum).  At first I thought it was some kind of overlay-ish growth of the mycelium such as I'd not seen before, but later as it began to develop dark spots (and sort of bluish - visible in photo) it was clearly a contaminant.  As you can see some mushrooms grew out of it.  My tub was not overly old as lvnthalife describes, rather I believe it came from one or more of the following vectors:

*Vermiculite was not cooked but was mixed in to balance moisture.
*Hot tap water (~165F) was used instead of boiling water.
*Unfiltered air supply in grow room.

I've corrected all of those problems and have not seen this since.

I don't have the The Mushroom Cultivator here, but in the contamination section there are a number of white contaminants.  There is one called "white plaster mold" (I forget the scientific name).  If you work through Stamets's contamination key then you might be able to identify this.


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Invisibledankington
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Re: whats going on here [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23700429 - 10/02/16 02:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

mycogone? lecanicillium fungicola (aka vert)?


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: whats going on here [Re: dankington]
    #23700758 - 10/02/16 04:10 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Poking around a bit, yes, I'd say its Mycogone I had, and the OP has the same problem.  Not Scopulariopsis (White Plaster Mold).


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: whats going on here [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23700931 - 10/02/16 04:58 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I can name 5 molds off the top of my head that will show blue bruising when in the presence of cubensis. Not to mention all the fluffy myc mushroom species that cubensis can destroy that also bruises blue.

I'm definitely not convinced it isn't a mold based off bruising. If this was under the scope, I'd stfu.


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Offlinelvnthalife
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Re: whats going on here [Re: Mad Season]
    #23700987 - 10/02/16 05:15 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

If i had a scope i would use it...


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: whats going on here [Re: lvnthalife]
    #23700993 - 10/02/16 05:17 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Haha it's ok. This is just contamination ID, one of my favorite aspects of mycology. You have fruits already coming in, so whether it's bacteria or a white contamination in there, you're still going to get edible fruits.


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Offlinelvnthalife
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Re: whats going on here [Re: Mad Season]
    #23701016 - 10/02/16 05:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Im just really curious as to what it is


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: whats going on here [Re: Mad Season]
    #23701164 - 10/02/16 06:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
I can name 5 molds off the top of my head that will show blue bruising when in the presence of cubensis.




That's interesting!  So, why do the molds bruise blue?  Are they assimilating the psilocin in the cubensis mycelium, and so we are seeing the oxidation of psilocin in the white mold?  Or do these molds bruise blue by other chemical mechanism?

Although I can't be totally sure, but based on comparing it to other photos here on the shroomery, I'd say I had Mycogone, and it looks real similar to lvnthalife's photos.  The bruising appeared to me to be the cubensis mycelium stressed by the parasitism of the mold, and the bruising was greyish blue actually.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: whats going on here [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
    #23701184 - 10/02/16 06:19 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Everyone here has probably had epic shrooms with absolutely no bruising. Bruising is not psilocin. It's most likely just a pigment changing color as the enzymes/metabolites digest things. In this case, a mold.


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Offlinelvnthalife
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Re: whats going on here [Re: Mad Season]
    #23701238 - 10/02/16 06:40 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

My most potent so far barely bruised. I have some right now that bruise super dark real quick but their only of moderate potency


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: whats going on here [Re: lvnthalife]
    #23701248 - 10/02/16 06:43 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I've had some epic bruisers literally destroy people, and same with non bruisers. I've actually had more potent non bruisers than bruisers now that I think about it. In reality it's the exact same as flipping a coin lol


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Invisibledankington
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Re: whats going on here [Re: Mad Season]
    #23701281 - 10/02/16 06:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Man, I really wish we could get some conclusive studies done. Like I could swear the buggers that bruise green make me balls to the wall in a different way. I remember Adden saying that was baeocystin degradation. But all we can do is speculate. Also, there is likely another ingredient, because there are inactives that bruise too. Like mudafuka's oysters I'd mentioned. Those bruised, but weren't active.

edit: credit where credit's due


Edited by dankington (10/03/16 08:50 AM)


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Offlinelvnthalife
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Re: whats going on here [Re: dankington]
    #23701399 - 10/02/16 07:37 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I really want to cut the sub in half and see what it looks like inside...


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: whats going on here [Re: lvnthalife]
    #23701518 - 10/02/16 08:22 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I doubt you'd be impressed


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Offlinelvnthalife
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Re: whats going on here [Re: Kenetic]
    #23701527 - 10/02/16 08:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Probably not


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: whats going on here [Re: lvnthalife]
    #23702293 - 10/03/16 01:45 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

>I really want to cut the sub in half and see what it looks like inside...

I always find such autopsies informative.


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Re: whats going on here [Re: Mad Season]
    #23702327 - 10/03/16 02:33 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Everyone here has probably had epic shrooms with absolutely no bruising. Bruising is not psilocin. It's most likely just a pigment changing color as the enzymes/metabolites digest things. In this case, a mold.




All cubensis I've grown bruised blue - some more than others.  There are psilocybes that don't bruise blue, but the most potent, such as Azurescens, stain very dark blue.

The common explanation is that the bruising is due to the oxidation of psilocin/psilocybin.  Wikipedia cites Stamets on that:

Quote:

The blue-staining species of Psilocybe are characterized by the presence of psilocin and psilocybin. This blue-staining reaction occurs after the fruit body has been injured, particularly near the base of the stalk.[19] This reaction is thought to be due to the oxidation of psilocybin after the outer surface of the fruit body has been breached.[20] The degree of bluing in a Psilocybe fruit body roughly correlates with the concentration of psilocin in the mushroom.[21]





I don't think that any of the white molds; mycogone, scopulariopsis, sepedonium, etc. stain blue on their own.  If a blue staining is taking place when they are present in cubensis culture it is because the cubensis mycelium is being injured by the contaminant and what you are seeing is the cubensis mycelium turning blue.  Or are the molds assimilating the tryptamines?


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OfflineMr.Caterpillar
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Re: whats going on here [Re: dankington]
    #23702364 - 10/03/16 03:18 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dankington said:
Man, I really wish we could get some conclusive studies done. Like I could swear the buggers that bruise green make me balls to the wall in a different way. I remember Adden saying that was baeocystin degradation. But all we can do is speculate. Also, there is likely another ingredient, because there are inactives that bruise too. Like pussyfart's oysters I'd mentioned. Those bruised, but weren't active.




If you look up info on Ehrlich's reagent (p-DMAB)you may come across some colorimetric keys for the indole alkaloids ('indole' derives from 'indigo') used in forensics.  All the various tryptamines show up in different shades of blue to violet, baeocystin notable for its aquamarine shade.  Some cubes are high in Baeocystin and bruise more greenish.  In TLC these alkaloids will fluoresce blue, and LSD is known to show up blue under UVA (so scumbags add quinine to their bunk bottles since quinine also fluoresces blue). 

Some types of Boletes stain blue also, and there are other mushrooms, russulas I think, but the chemistry is different in each case.

Anyway, we've gone off topic!


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