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InvisibleMooshie_Muncha
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Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars.
    #23660746 - 09/20/16 05:36 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

So, I decided to go with the PF Tek but I, mistakenly, decided to go with the "improved PF Tek" in Psilocybin Mushroom Handbook: Easy Indoor and Outdoor Cultivation.

The supposed "improved PF Tek" says that you should leave the cakes in the jars. After some research I realized that it was a mistake but being the noob genius that I am and lack of availability, I got jars with a small taper since I figured that it won't matter since I don't need to remove the cakes. Obviously, my views have changed but I do have a few questions and hopefully you guys can aid me in my predicament.

My jars are starting to colonize and are at approximately 5%. My first question is, can I, after colonization, take a clean knife and cut the cakes apart in the jars and then place them in a suitable container, add a casing layer, and make a crude monotub?

The second question is, 3 of my jars are showing no growth and I fear that either the spores got caught in the verm layer, or they are duds. Can I re-sterilize them as they are? Or, can I simply reinoculate them? Or, should I start over with those 3?

Thanks in advance for any advice. :smile:


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Offlinetump
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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
    #23660929 - 09/20/16 08:00 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

How about just waiting out to see if those three jars have life. Only some of the jars are at 5% so not very far in process. Second yes you can re sterility the jar and burn them fucking up the water content. Future you will ask the same with grain jars
The answer is yes you can recook them. All advise im telling you to wait until you know there contamed or died. Or start over the resources to make new jars is little conpared to waiting a whole month longer for less fruit if you lucky.


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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: tump]
    #23660939 - 09/20/16 08:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Re cooking or re inoculating is dumb always start over
Wait at least 14 days to see growth before starting over
Yes you can break your cakes up, it takes a lot of cakes for a mono


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InvisibleMooshie_Muncha
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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23660956 - 09/20/16 08:16 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Awesomeness. Thanks for the replies.

I think that I'll break the cakes up and then make a mono. It sure beats this stupid "improved PF Tek" method and I'll be sure to invest in proper jars.

As for the other jars that aren't showing any growth, I'll take your advice and leave them for another week or so and see what happens. If there's nothing, I'll just start over.

Thanks heaps.


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OfflinePeteyboy
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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23661135 - 09/20/16 09:49 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

bodhisatta said:
Re cooking or re inoculating is dumb always start over
Wait at least 14 days to see growth before starting over
Yes you can break your cakes up, it takes a lot of cakes for a mono




Def start over, I know it sucks to throw jars out especially your first time, but trust us.
What size are your jars? I spawned 13 1/4 pint colonized brf cakes into mini monos, 6 in one 7 in the other and I couldn't have been happier with the results. Almost 1.5 Oz off first flush with less then a quart of spawn total. I would highly recommend you do this.
Here is the thread if you wanna check it out.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23607244


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InvisibleMooshie_Muncha
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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Peteyboy]
    #23661229 - 09/20/16 10:20 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Very interesting and 1.5oz is quite a lot for a first flush. I've got 6 1/4 pint jars and 3 1/2 pint mason jars (the one's that I should actually be using).

I'm going to birth, dunk and roll the mason jars but I'm definitely going to break up the 1/4 pint jars and make a mini monotub.

Any links to some good teks for this method?

Or even better, mind sharing your step-by-step from your own experience?

Also, after the jars colonize, I break them up and simply place them in the container and then immediately place the casing layer?


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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
    #23661259 - 09/20/16 10:31 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

That's 3 quarts of spawn total. You have enough to do a 50qt tub. I only used 3.5 quarts. Im expecting a four oz first flush. If you go bulk you can expect an oucs per quart if your spawn is clean and your substrate prepared properly. This is opposed to maybe an ounce if fruited as cakes. I would highly recommend going straight to a tub, i wish i did thats for sure. Are all the jars of the same variety of cubes?
  Are they all the same strain?


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InvisibleMooshie_Muncha
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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Peteyboy]
    #23661298 - 09/20/16 10:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Damn, that's crazy. Yeah, they're all the same strain from a single Cubensis spore print.

I saw the pics from your mono grow, that's pretty much exactly what I want, haha.

So, basically, you just used your jars as spawn to transfer over to more substrate?

Considering that I don't have a pressure cooker, making sterile substrate is going to be a major difficulty for me.


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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
    #23661333 - 09/20/16 11:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Nah man tbw substrate is soooo easy the hardest part is the clean spawn. If you get good clean colonization you will be good to go, it's the most crucial part.

It's good that they are the same you don't want to mix different varieties of spawn. But yeah I used the biggest holes on a cheese grater and shredded it down into a CVG substrate.

There's a tek for prepping the CVG called "the bucket tek" no PC needed and it worked wonders for me!

You got this brother, all the info and help you need is right here at your finger tips.


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InvisibleMooshie_Muncha
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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Peteyboy]
    #23661364 - 09/20/16 11:12 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Awesome!

Thanks heaps, dude. Really appreciate it and I'll be looking into the bucket tek.


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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
    #23661462 - 09/20/16 11:42 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah man good luck!!


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Peteyboy]
    #23661625 - 09/20/16 12:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The bucket tek is pretty reliable.  Maybe consider a mini mono for your pf spawn? 

And what did you change your name for Bodhi?  I liked it the way it was


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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Kenetic]
    #23661658 - 09/20/16 12:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah I did two mini monos but it would have been fine in one larger mono.


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InvisibleMooshie_Muncha
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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Kenetic]
    #23661816 - 09/20/16 01:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, I didn't even know that this technique existed. It's really simple as well. Definitely going to go mini mono with the bucket tek.

Thanks for the info.


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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
    #23661878 - 09/20/16 02:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Cakes spawned to a mono has significantly higher chance of fucking up and yielding next to nothing than cakes fruited as cakes, or even a mono made properly with grain.  If you like putting all your eggs in one basket, go right on ahead.


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InvisibleMooshie_Muncha
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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Inocuole]
    #23661932 - 09/20/16 02:18 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I understand that. I also understand that it runs a higher risk of contamination, however, if you had another suggestion I am all ears?

The reason I want to do this is because the jars that I do have are not tapered and I won't be able to birth, dunk and roll them. My original plan was to fruit them while in the jar. In other words, completely covering the jar in black electrical tape and allow it to get sunlight only at the top. However, other users on this site have had terrible to no success using this method.

If I had my way, I'd have a HEPA flow hood, a 23qt All American PC, petri dishes and agar. Unfortunately, I do not own this equipment, yet, and they are pricey. Otherwise I would have been inoculating from pure strains grown on agar and my substrate would have been augmented with 3% hydrogen peroxide to ensure sterility and eliminate most forms of contamination. Since this is my first grow, I kinda fucked up, a learning curve I suppose.


Edited by Mooshie_Muncha (09/20/16 02:21 PM)


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
    #23661993 - 09/20/16 02:35 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Black electrical tape?  hmmmmm......  well at least you didn't go with that route lol.

And h202 isn't gonna work like you think it will.  I personally don't use it, I rely on the p.c. to ensure sterility as much as is possible.


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InvisibleMooshie_Muncha
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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Kenetic]
    #23662006 - 09/20/16 02:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hahaha, yeah tell me about it, pretty stupid actually.

Hmm... interesting. Why do you say that H202 won't work like I expect it to? Considering that I already have mycelium, I'm considering adding that to the Bucket Tek.


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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Kenetic]
    #23662009 - 09/20/16 02:41 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Inocuole is right, it's not the most ideal method for bulk spawn but it can and does work. I moved onto grains immediately afterward once I realized exactly what I missed out on fruiting my first 15 jars as cakes.

And yeah forget about the H202


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Edited by Peteyboy (09/20/16 02:42 PM)


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InvisibleMooshie_Muncha
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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Peteyboy]
    #23662043 - 09/20/16 02:54 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, I know that he is right and personally, I would love to go proper grain mono, but at the moment I can't do that. The main reason is because of the lack of a pressure cooker.

However, at this moment, I am merely looking for options as to what I can do with those jars. I mean, wasting mycelium is a grave sin.

To be frank though, the 3 half pint wide-mouthed mason jars that I have I am putting my hopes on. I can do the PF Tek with them to the T and know that I will be cloning and shooting spore prints from them.

For now though, the bucket tek does sound the best option to me, and it won't be a total waste. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work but I do have the 3 cakes.


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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
    #23662065 - 09/20/16 02:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

If even one little thing goes wrong you lose all the cakes instead of just one or two.. if it turns out that your yield would have been better by doing nothing at all, I can only imagine there will be some level of regret.


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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Peteyboy]
    #23662078 - 09/20/16 03:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The first thing I would say is that if you are gonna use the bucket tek, you need to follow the tek and I don't recall h202 being used the tek.

I would highly suggest you follow a tek like it is written, especially since you are inexperienced.

H202 is only good for applying to cobweb that grows on a colonized substrate.  It doesn't kill most molds. It sanitizes, not sterilizes,  and it will rapidly decompose into water. 

Your best chance of obtaining a clean culture is to read some more and practice good, sterile technique.


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InvisibleMooshie_Muncha
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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Inocuole]
    #23662081 - 09/20/16 03:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
If even one little thing goes wrong you lose all the cakes instead of just one or two.. if it turns out that your yield would have been better by doing nothing at all, I can only imagine there will be some level of regret.



You are completely correct, I would be pretty pissed.

If you were in my position, what would you do?


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InvisibleMooshie_Muncha
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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Kenetic]
    #23662090 - 09/20/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kenetic said:
The first thing I would say is that if you are gonna use the bucket tek, you need to follow the tek and I don't recall h202 being used the tek.

I would highly suggest you follow a tek like it is written, especially since you are inexperienced.

H202 is only good for applying to cobweb that grows on a colonized substrate.  It doesn't kill most molds. It sanitizes, not sterilizes,  and it will rapidly decompose into water. 

Your best chance of obtaining a clean culture is to read some more and practice good, sterile technique.



I see and thanks for the advice. If I do decide to go with the bucket tek, I will follow it as it is set out.


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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
    #23662166 - 09/20/16 03:40 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah I totally understand wanting to go through to fruiting as cakes, I did myself. And I think it's a good learning step for sure.
  I was just throwing options out there so you can get ALOT MORE mushies for your efforts, but the 3 half pints will be enough for a mini mono for sure.


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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Peteyboy]
    #23662183 - 09/20/16 03:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah dude, believe me, I really do appreciate your insight and in all probability, I will be trying it. However, I will be caking the 3 half pints and using the 6 1/4 pints for the bucket tek, if I decide to do it.

Essentially, I want the most amount of mushies as possible, with the lowest risk. Considering that I won't be able to remove them as complete cakes since they aren't tapered, I need to think of other options and so far the bucket tek seems the best bet.

The 3 half pint jars are basically my insurance so that I can continue growing, if it so happens that the bucket tek ends up to be a failure. However, if I remember correctly, coco coir is extremely resilient to bacterial infections, maybe that's why that tek works?


Edited by Mooshie_Muncha (09/20/16 03:45 PM)


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Re: Two questions on First time grow: Jar Re-sterilization and Monotub from PF Jars. [Re: Mooshie_Muncha]
    #23662565 - 09/20/16 06:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah I think it's a good plan, the cakes will fruit while your tub is colonizing, so you will get mushies quicker. And seeing the difference in the mushies on the cakes and then on bulk substrate is also a great learning opportunity.

And yeah it is very resilient to contams and holds water better then poo. For newbs like us it's def the way to go.


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