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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: Turtletotem]
    #23660438 - 09/20/16 12:37 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

:yesnod: it's fun when people realize they didn't know what they were talking about...most of us will die first, but it DOES happen.


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Invisibleabltsandwich
JFK = Jelly Donut
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Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 11,537
Loc: Dildoville Flag
Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: qman] * 2
    #23660511 - 09/20/16 01:33 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Bombing terrorists and fighting them directly is like trying to stop a stream of water from going down a mountain; it'll branch off into other streams and continue indefinitely no matter how many side streams you block.  However, the source of water up the mountain could be cut off entirely, stopping the flow of water down the mountain.
The stream of water is terrorists, the source of water is a narrative that's so powerful that bombs and bullets won't do shit against it.  The only way to win against it is to create a stronger, better narrative than the terrorist one we're fighting. 
In a game of strategy, even board games, every move that's not made offensively toward an objective (ie, defensive and lateral moves) is a losing move.  Stomping out the metaphorical streams on the mountain, then jumping to contain the little side streams that branch off from it is an endless battle of defense because it's categorically not a move toward the true objective of stopping the water supply.


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Offlinekoods
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Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,066
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 37 minutes, 36 seconds
Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: qman] * 2
    #23660765 - 09/20/16 05:55 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
You think they want to destroy them? :lolsy:

ISIS exists because the states funded and supplied them. Theyre a political weapon designed to wreak havoc in the middle east and destroy these countries.




Allowing migrants from those parts of the world into the US is coming to an end, in fact the US is going to end up deporting them out of the country even if they are US citizens.




you cant deport US citizens.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: koods]
    #23660826 - 09/20/16 06:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Double speak in action. (inaction)



What exactly would you like to have done? Short of invading ISIS territory, what other military action is available to us?

It seems like the only way ISIS really affects us is making us over react. The threat of terrorism is so overblown. We spend so much time on something that statistically is almost nonexistent. We spend hundreds of billions of dollars trying to prevent a few dozen deaths a year. Maybe we should stop freaking out every time some islamic nutcase tries to kill a bunch of people.




sounds like you're saying just the opposite of what you say in the gun debates

yet they just found 3 bombs, one that injured 28 people, in new york and new
jersey and one terrorist nut job just stabbed 8 people before being stopped
by a man with a gun


why do you hate americans so much that you want us disarmed and want more
terrorists brought to the US to kill innocents, why do you downplay terrorism
yet blow gun violence way out of proportion? it seems that not all acts of
terrorism make the mainstream news and it seems that because you dont see it, it
must not exist

http://www.lagrandeobserver.com/news/4522565-151/pipe-bomb-found-in-wallowa-lake
http://ktul.com/news/local/device-thought-to-be-an-explosive-found-during-a-warrants-sweep
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/downing-723088-explosive-possible.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/08/05/pipe-bomb-found-in-rodeo-park/
http://koin.com/2016/08/16/weapons-possible-pipe-bomb-found-in-home-near-school/
http://www.sbsun.com/general-news/20160706/pipe-bomb-building-materials-found-in-highland-home


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Posts: 193,665
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Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: koods] * 1
    #23660832 - 09/20/16 06:51 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
You think they want to destroy them? :lolsy:

ISIS exists because the states funded and supplied them. Theyre a political weapon designed to wreak havoc in the middle east and destroy these countries.




Allowing migrants from those parts of the world into the US is coming to an end, in fact the US is going to end up deporting them out of the country even if they are US citizens.




you cant deport US citizens.





naturalized citizens can be denaturalized and deported


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23660867 - 09/20/16 07:18 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroyim_v._Rusk

"Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967), is a major United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled that citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily.[1][2] The U.S. government had attempted to revoke the citizenship of Beys Afroyim, a man born in Poland, because he had cast a vote in an Israeli election after becoming a naturalized U.S. citizen. The Supreme Court decided that Afroyim's right to retain his citizenship was guaranteed by the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution. In so doing, the Court overruled one of its own precedents, Perez v. Brownell (1958), in which it had upheld loss of citizenship under similar circumstances less than a decade earlier."

"The impact of Afroyim v. Rusk was narrowed by a later case, Rogers v. Bellei (1971), in which the Court determined that the Fourteenth Amendment safeguarded citizenship only when a person was born or naturalized in the United States, and that Congress retained authority to regulate the citizenship status of a person who was born outside the United States to an American parent. However, the specific law at issue in Rogers v. Bellei—a requirement for a minimum period of U.S. residence that Bellei had failed to satisfy—was repealed by Congress in 1978. As a consequence of revised policies adopted in 1990 by the United States Department of State, it is now (in the words of one expert) "virtually impossible to lose American citizenship without formally and expressly renouncing it."[4]


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OfflineKinko
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Posts: 3,024
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: qman]
    #23660873 - 09/20/16 07:22 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
You think they want to destroy them? :lolsy:

ISIS exists because the states funded and supplied them. Theyre a political weapon designed to wreak havoc in the middle east and destroy these countries.




Allowing migrants from those parts of the world into the US is coming to an end, in fact the US is going to end up deporting them out of the country even if they are US citizens.

What the US does in that part of the world is of little concern to most US citizens, it's about the homeland.



What a joke in the great u s of a you are more likely to die from the hands of a toddler than a terrorist... Why don't you look at the facts qman ?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: Prisoner#1] * 3
    #23660900 - 09/20/16 07:41 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Double speak in action. (inaction)



What exactly would you like to have done? Short of invading ISIS territory, what other military action is available to us?

It seems like the only way ISIS really affects us is making us over react. The threat of terrorism is so overblown. We spend so much time on something that statistically is almost nonexistent. We spend hundreds of billions of dollars trying to prevent a few dozen deaths a year. Maybe we should stop freaking out every time some islamic nutcase tries to kill a bunch of people.




sounds like you're saying just the opposite of what you say in the gun debates

yet they just found 3 bombs, one that injured 28 people, in new york and new
jersey and one terrorist nut job just stabbed 8 people before being stopped
by a man with a gun


why do you hate americans so much that you want us disarmed and want more
terrorists brought to the US to kill innocents, why do you downplay terrorism
yet blow gun violence way out of proportion? it seems that not all acts of
terrorism make the mainstream news and it seems that because you dont see it, it
must not exist

http://www.lagrandeobserver.com/news/4522565-151/pipe-bomb-found-in-wallowa-lake
http://ktul.com/news/local/device-thought-to-be-an-explosive-found-during-a-warrants-sweep
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/downing-723088-explosive-possible.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/08/05/pipe-bomb-found-in-rodeo-park/
http://koin.com/2016/08/16/weapons-possible-pipe-bomb-found-in-home-near-school/
http://www.sbsun.com/general-news/20160706/pipe-bomb-building-materials-found-in-highland-home





Get back to me when bombs are killing 35,000 people a year


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 7 hours, 4 minutes
Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: koods] * 1
    #23660931 - 09/20/16 08:02 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
You think they want to destroy them? :lolsy:

ISIS exists because the states funded and supplied them. Theyre a political weapon designed to wreak havoc in the middle east and destroy these countries.




Allowing migrants from those parts of the world into the US is coming to an end, in fact the US is going to end up deporting them out of the country even if they are US citizens.




you cant deport US citizens.




I'm sure German Jews took great comfort in their citizenship as they were boarding the trains.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: qman] * 1
    #23660952 - 09/20/16 08:14 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

lol, wow. nice, uh, retort.

so you wanna send Muslims on planes and boats without due process and legal rationale for that process? are you gonna make a law excepting freedom for one class of citizen?

nah, i know you don't mean that.


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 7 hours, 4 minutes
Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23660965 - 09/20/16 08:20 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
lol, wow. nice, uh, retort.

so you wanna send Muslims on planes and boats without due process and legal rationale for that process? are you gonna make a law excepting freedom for one class of citizen?

nah, i know you don't mean that.




Why do you constantly put words into my mouth?  Did I say I want to see the US do that?  No, I'm pointing out governments like the US have suspended the civil rights of US citizens under certain circumstances and that could happen again.

"are you gonna make a law excepting freedom for once class of citizen?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23660980 - 09/20/16 08:29 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroyim_v._Rusk

"Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967), is a major United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled that citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily.[1][2] The U.S. government had attempted to revoke the citizenship of Beys Afroyim, a man born in Poland, because he had cast a vote in an Israeli election after becoming a naturalized U.S. citizen. The Supreme Court decided that Afroyim's right to retain his citizenship was guaranteed by the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution. In so doing, the Court overruled one of its own precedents, Perez v. Brownell (1958), in which it had upheld loss of citizenship under similar circumstances less than a decade earlier."

"The impact of Afroyim v. Rusk was narrowed by a later case, Rogers v. Bellei (1971), in which the Court determined that the Fourteenth Amendment safeguarded citizenship only when a person was born or naturalized in the United States, and that Congress retained authority to regulate the citizenship status of a person who was born outside the United States to an American parent. However, the specific law at issue in Rogers v. Bellei—a requirement for a minimum period of U.S. residence that Bellei had failed to satisfy—was repealed by Congress in 1978. As a consequence of revised policies adopted in 1990 by the United States Department of State, it is now (in the words of one expert) "virtually impossible to lose American citizenship without formally and expressly renouncing it."[4]






oh... then all of these people that were denaturalized were not actually
denaturalized with most being deported or fleeing the country. imagine that,
according to 1 expert, it is virtually impossible... virtually

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_denaturalized_former_citizens_of_the_United_States


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: koods]
    #23660990 - 09/20/16 08:32 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Double speak in action. (inaction)



What exactly would you like to have done? Short of invading ISIS territory, what other military action is available to us?

It seems like the only way ISIS really affects us is making us over react. The threat of terrorism is so overblown. We spend so much time on something that statistically is almost nonexistent. We spend hundreds of billions of dollars trying to prevent a few dozen deaths a year. Maybe we should stop freaking out every time some islamic nutcase tries to kill a bunch of people.




sounds like you're saying just the opposite of what you say in the gun debates

yet they just found 3 bombs, one that injured 28 people, in new york and new
jersey and one terrorist nut job just stabbed 8 people before being stopped
by a man with a gun


why do you hate americans so much that you want us disarmed and want more
terrorists brought to the US to kill innocents, why do you downplay terrorism
yet blow gun violence way out of proportion? it seems that not all acts of
terrorism make the mainstream news and it seems that because you dont see it, it
must not exist

http://www.lagrandeobserver.com/news/4522565-151/pipe-bomb-found-in-wallowa-lake
http://ktul.com/news/local/device-thought-to-be-an-explosive-found-during-a-warrants-sweep
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/downing-723088-explosive-possible.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/08/05/pipe-bomb-found-in-rodeo-park/
http://koin.com/2016/08/16/weapons-possible-pipe-bomb-found-in-home-near-school/
http://www.sbsun.com/general-news/20160706/pipe-bomb-building-materials-found-in-highland-home





Get back to me when bombs are killing 35,000 people a year




dont you mean 9000 per year since suicides dont actually count, but of course
liberals want to strip us of that freedom of choice just like everything else



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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: qman]
    #23661007 - 09/20/16 08:39 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

OP , saying they are in a narrative fight and a narrative battle in no way implies that they don't think real terrorist attacks are taking place or that there isn't a real fight going on with ISIS.

It just means that in addition to other forms of struggle there is also a narrative war going on.

The same thing was said about the fight with the nazis . That war includes a huge propaganda war, a narrative war.

All major wars and conflicts include a narrative component.

It doesn't mean that's ALL it is.

Propaganda/narrative battle is a key component of all conflicts since ancient times .

It's a hugely important part of war - who frames the story, who defines the conflict, who controls the meaning , who tells the story - who wins the narrative war.

That doesn't mean he is denying that actual attacks are taking place. It just means in this instance he is talking about the propaganda battle that is one major facet of the larger struggle.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23661032 - 09/20/16 08:59 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroyim_v._Rusk

"Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967), is a major United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled that citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily.[1][2] The U.S. government had attempted to revoke the citizenship of Beys Afroyim, a man born in Poland, because he had cast a vote in an Israeli election after becoming a naturalized U.S. citizen. The Supreme Court decided that Afroyim's right to retain his citizenship was guaranteed by the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution. In so doing, the Court overruled one of its own precedents, Perez v. Brownell (1958), in which it had upheld loss of citizenship under similar circumstances less than a decade earlier."

"The impact of Afroyim v. Rusk was narrowed by a later case, Rogers v. Bellei (1971), in which the Court determined that the Fourteenth Amendment safeguarded citizenship only when a person was born or naturalized in the United States, and that Congress retained authority to regulate the citizenship status of a person who was born outside the United States to an American parent. However, the specific law at issue in Rogers v. Bellei—a requirement for a minimum period of U.S. residence that Bellei had failed to satisfy—was repealed by Congress in 1978. As a consequence of revised policies adopted in 1990 by the United States Department of State, it is now (in the words of one expert) "virtually impossible to lose American citizenship without formally and expressly renouncing it."[4]






oh... then all of these people that were denaturalized were not actually
denaturalized with most being deported or fleeing the country. imagine that,
according to 1 expert, it is virtually impossible... virtually

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_denaturalized_former_citizens_of_the_United_States




excellent point...not.

yeah, hey genius, notice that there's a fuckin' reason listed along side all those notable people, there, Slim Pickens?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23661040 - 09/20/16 09:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
OP , saying they are in a narrative fight and a narrative battle in no way implies that they don't think real terrorist attacks are taking place or that there isn't a real fight going on with ISIS.




here's the real narrative that the obama administration and other liberals seem to be battling


8 people stabbed in a mall by a muslim
29 people injured by bombs built by a muslim

numerous attacks by muslims over the last few years with liberals saying we
shouldnt judge all muslims by the actions of a few while judging all gun
owners by the actions of a few liberal criminals that used guns


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23661045 - 09/20/16 09:11 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroyim_v._Rusk

"Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967), is a major United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled that citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily.[1][2] The U.S. government had attempted to revoke the citizenship of Beys Afroyim, a man born in Poland, because he had cast a vote in an Israeli election after becoming a naturalized U.S. citizen. The Supreme Court decided that Afroyim's right to retain his citizenship was guaranteed by the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution. In so doing, the Court overruled one of its own precedents, Perez v. Brownell (1958), in which it had upheld loss of citizenship under similar circumstances less than a decade earlier."

"The impact of Afroyim v. Rusk was narrowed by a later case, Rogers v. Bellei (1971), in which the Court determined that the Fourteenth Amendment safeguarded citizenship only when a person was born or naturalized in the United States, and that Congress retained authority to regulate the citizenship status of a person who was born outside the United States to an American parent. However, the specific law at issue in Rogers v. Bellei—a requirement for a minimum period of U.S. residence that Bellei had failed to satisfy—was repealed by Congress in 1978. As a consequence of revised policies adopted in 1990 by the United States Department of State, it is now (in the words of one expert) "virtually impossible to lose American citizenship without formally and expressly renouncing it."[4]






oh... then all of these people that were denaturalized were not actually
denaturalized with most being deported or fleeing the country. imagine that,
according to 1 expert, it is virtually impossible... virtually

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_denaturalized_former_citizens_of_the_United_States




excellent point...not.

yeah, hey genius, notice that there's a fuckin' reason listed along side all those notable people, there, Slim Pickens?





hey jeanius, did you not read my post about how people can be denaturalized


just so you know, Slim Pickens was born in the US
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slim_Pickens


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23661046 - 09/20/16 09:13 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

oh my...my memory...holey shit.





























:trollhide: and don't make me insinuate you, your Ladderiness, i'm this close.


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OfflineKinko
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Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23661055 - 09/20/16 09:17 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Moonshoe said:
OP , saying they are in a narrative fight and a narrative battle in no way implies that they don't think real terrorist attacks are taking place or that there isn't a real fight going on with ISIS.




here's the real narrative that the obama administration and other liberals seem to be battling


8 people stabbed in a mall by a muslim
29 people injured by bombs built by a muslim

numerous attacks by muslims over the last few years with liberals saying we
shouldnt judge all muslims by the actions of a few while judging all gun
owners by the actions of a few liberal criminals that used guns


.  You are delusional noone  want s to take your guns away , it is understood the violent nature of this country we need guns to kill "domestic terrorists"


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 7 hours, 4 minutes
Re: White House Press Secretary: U.S. in a 'Narrative Fight' with Islamic State [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23661058 - 09/20/16 09:18 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
OP , saying they are in a narrative fight and a narrative battle in no way implies that they don't think real terrorist attacks are taking place or that there isn't a real fight going on with ISIS.

It just means that in addition to other forms of struggle there is also a narrative war going on.

The same thing was said about the fight with the nazis . That war includes a huge propaganda war, a narrative war.

All major wars and conflicts include a narrative component.

It doesn't mean that's ALL it is.

Propaganda/narrative battle is a key component of all conflicts since ancient times .

It's a hugely important part of war - who frames the story, who defines the conflict, who controls the meaning , who tells the story - who wins the narrative war.

That doesn't mean he is denying that actual attacks are taking place. It just means in this instance he is talking about the propaganda battle that is one major facet of the larger struggle.




"Propaganda/narrative battle is a key component of all conflicts"

I agree, so why did he "focused on the important of 'debunking' false narratives and not painting Muslims with a 'broad brush'"?

What's the false narrative being painted?  That Muslims are committing the vast majority of terrorist attacks in the US and EU today?  That's the truth.

Is it also a false narrative the most of the terror cell members inside of the US and EU are Muslims? No, that's the truth.

The only false narrative that is being painted is that radical Islam isn't the problem when it comes to terrorism inside the US and EU.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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