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Offlinemrtonytompson
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Why are my cakes not fruiting???
    #23659041 - 09/19/16 03:01 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hello this is my first post on here so sorry for any errors. I have searched a million threads and havnt found and answer to my question. So 9 days ago I birthed 6 .5 pint jars of Albino A+, dunked for 24 hours then rolled in verm. They have been in my SG Terrarium for 9 days now at 70 to 75 degrees and 95 to 100% humidity. There is no pins yet and im getting worried. I have misted 3 times a day and fanned 5-6 times. The only growth is little pieces of mycelium but not pins. What could be the problem? Please help


Edited by mrtonytompson (09/19/16 03:03 PM)


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Offlinekatbusa
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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: mrtonytompson]
    #23659107 - 09/19/16 03:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

One of two things are happening.

1) Your cakes were not 100% colonized

2) Your smothering them with love.


I would start by cutting your FAE in half and see what happens. It also looks like you might be misting them too much. In that amount of humidity you should have new fuzzy mycelium growth. It looks like it started with the new growth but somethimg happened. Hopefully you will have pins soon.

Once you get them to pin the next trick is to treat them right so they dont abort. I would start keeping notes because I sense a FC and methodology improvement in your near future.


Edited by katbusa (09/19/16 03:33 PM)


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: katbusa]
    #23659125 - 09/19/16 03:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

katbusa said:
One of two things are happening.

1) Your cakes were not 100% colonized

2) Your smothering them with love.


I would start by cutting your FAE in half and see what happens. It also looks like you might be misting them too much. In that amount of humidity you should have new fuzzy mycelium growth. It looks like it started with the new growth but somethimg happened. Hopefully you will have pins soon.

Once you get them to pin the next trick is to treat them right so they dont abort. I would start keeping notes because I sense a FC and methodology improvement in your near future.





Okay thanks. I read having more mycelium growth could be from a lack of FAE. Also i lets the jars consolidate 1 week after the whole jar was colonized. Ill take any more suggestions !


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Invisibleamidogen
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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: katbusa]
    #23659130 - 09/19/16 03:40 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

.


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Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 10:16 AM)


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Offlinemrmazdarx9
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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: amidogen]
    #23659152 - 09/19/16 03:47 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I'd mist more, they need misting when you can't see any little water droplets. It looks like your using a sgfc was it built to spec 2" x2" grid pattern 1/4" holes top and bottom. Remember evaporation is a trigger for pinning so keep the misting and fanning up and it'll happen, one pic sort of looks like a little pin but might just be verm at a funny angle
Mist and fan not 3 mist 6 fan btw
Also were those pics taken at night? Looks a little dark in there


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Offlinemrtonytompson
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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: mrmazdarx9]
    #23659241 - 09/19/16 04:11 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yes its a standard SGFC built to spec. The pic I took in the afternoon. I have a 6500k bulb on it in the closet. I have been mostly misting the sides and perlite and lightly misting the cakes. Heres some pics

(Hygrometer reads 70% its about 30% off. Did salt test )


Edited by mrtonytompson (09/19/16 04:13 PM)


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: mrtonytompson]
    #23659257 - 09/19/16 04:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

katbusa said:
I would start by cutting your FAE in half and see what happens.






like wtf????? no no no no no. FAE and evaporation of moisture triggers pinning!
stopping the FAE would halt the process.

dont worry about the RH. worry about FAE.. how moist is your perlite?

too dry of a perlite layer wont let the sgfc do its thing


Edited by mushboy (09/19/16 04:25 PM)


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Offlinemrmazdarx9
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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: mrtonytompson]
    #23659265 - 09/19/16 04:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You need to mist just the cakes directly, misting the perlite and walls won't do anything. The holes look a little far apart in the pics especially on the lid meaning there won't be as many, I'm not sure how detrimental that will be but there's a reason the tek specifies 2x2 grid.


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: mrmazdarx9]
    #23659274 - 09/19/16 04:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

:whathesaid: the last two posts nail it


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Invisibleamidogen
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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: mrmazdarx9]
    #23659277 - 09/19/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

.


--------------------
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Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 10:16 AM)


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: amidogen]
    #23659304 - 09/19/16 04:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

also the other advice is horribly wrong. not to bash katbusa but damn dude.

pf cakes and a sgfc are great ways for newbies to gain experience growing.
suggesting that someone LIMITS FAE during fruiting is just awful.
imagine your hungry and someone says ...try eating less.

again not to bash but god damn.


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: mushboy]
    #23659310 - 09/19/16 04:29 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Fae is so important that if you could mist often enough you would be best off doing grows on your tables open air


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23659329 - 09/19/16 04:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks everybody. The perlite is moist but not soaked. I will make sure the cakes get misted more and make sure more FAE. Anything else I should know to make sure they fruit would be appreciated. This is my first grow and everything was going great until I birthed them and tried to fruit them.


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: mrtonytompson]
    #23659364 - 09/19/16 04:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

how will you make sure they get more FAE? a SGFC built correctly gets only one amount of FAE, fanning is not FAE.

so long as it is built right it gets the right amount of FAE


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23659401 - 09/19/16 05:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Ohh I thought FAE was from fanning? Then the FAE problem is probably from the SGFC they are in.


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: mrtonytompson] * 1
    #23659422 - 09/19/16 05:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

FAE is passive. FAE isn't user controlled. if you build your SGFC correctly the holes give it FAE all the time 24/7

if you want to give manual FAE you have to fan every few minutes


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23659435 - 09/19/16 05:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

in your first post you say you fan 5-6 times but mist 3.

mist only as many time as you need, be it 1 time a day or 5 times a day/

you fan ONLY AFTER you mist, and fanning is optional by the way.
therefore your fanning number should be the same as your misting number

if the SGFC is built correctly humidity should be 50-70% most of the time and in the 80-90s after you mist. as the cakes evaporate moisture the area just above the surface skin of the cakes has 99% humidity as it evaporates into the air in the SGFC, that's the pinning trigger

9 days is hardly too long to worry anyway.


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23659449 - 09/19/16 05:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I fan by opening the lid to mist. The mister moves enough air to be considered fanning IMO.

I fan with the mister bottle when the water from previous fanning has evaporated.


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Offlinemrtonytompson
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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23659550 - 09/19/16 05:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Okay thanks for the info. I got the numbers of how many times to mist and fan from the tek i used for this project. How often should i mist? You said anywhere from 1 to 5 times. How can you tell when they need to be misted?


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: mrtonytompson]
    #23659564 - 09/19/16 06:02 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

When the water from the last mist is completely evaporated you can mist them again. No sooner.


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23659571 - 09/19/16 06:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I fan by opening the lid to mist. The mister moves enough air to be considered fanning IMO.

I fan with the mister bottle when the water from previous fanning has evaporated.





This made me laugh.


But he just told you when to mist.  When the glistening layer of water beads on the substrate evaporate.  Then mist again. 

However many times a day that happens.

Edit: argh beat me to it.


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: Mushierage]
    #23659609 - 09/19/16 06:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

use a bit of common sense when looking at a cake. if it seems dry.. give her a mist :wink:
or post a pic and ask.:thumbup:


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Offlinekatbusa
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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23659745 - 09/19/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
FAE is passive. FAE isn't user controlled. if you build your SGFC correctly the holes give it FAE all the time 24/7

if you want to give manual FAE you have to fan every few minutes





This is exactly what I was trying to get to but instead was bashed and it was well deserved because I wasn't clear. Totally my fault. I was in a rush to board a plane to Detroit. Ill make sure I'm more clear for now on.

You can take a look at his cakes and take a good look at how the mycelium looks. Its smooth. I have seen this happen several times when someone is attempting to do the mist and FAE process too much causing a borderline drying out. I've even done it my self a couple of times. Thankfully the OP's cake isn't that dry.

With the RH as high as he said it is in that chamber he should have more growth than the little he has especially when it comes to hyphal knots.

What I told him to do would allow the RH in that chamber to do its job and form the micro dew drops on the mycelium that it needs to start pinning. Then if more FAE is needed then he can add more. At least he isn't sitting there with a stalled cake.


A greenhouse is a prime example of proper FAE. A green house exchanges the air but maintains humidity levels. There is always a moving flow of clean water laden air which promotes evaporation. This is what the SGFC does. If someone were to go into a greenhouse and quickly evacuate all of the air within seconds all of the plants are going to wilt and show signs of stress. This is exactly what you are doing when you fan too much in hopes to have good FAE. It would be better to just mist and let the natural fall of the water droplets pull fresh air with it.

The relative humidity in a SGFC does a good job at forming the required water droplets. With 90% RH the op should be able to see these small water droplets forming on the cake. Then the convection air currents in the chamber should be well enough to cause evaporation that will cause pinning.

The fact is IMO hes fanning too much. He really shouldn't be fanning at all in a SGFC unless he see signs of needed FAE. This also goes into the reason why I told him to dial back on his misting to prevent pooling water with the lack of manual fanning.

Guys I get it. I'm considered new here. I don't have many posts but that doesn't mean I don't have experience or that I don't have a good grasp on the science behind it.

So I'm going to stay firm footed :

Stop manually Fanning. Give the cakes time to recover to grow more hyphal knots. If the SGFC is built correctly it will do its job and you will have pins.

I tell people this all the time when it comes to plants. "Leave them alone and let them and the environment do its job. You are literally killing it with love."


Edited by katbusa (09/19/16 07:21 PM)


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OfflineBobabouy
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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: katbusa]
    #23659758 - 09/19/16 07:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe you just need to keep waiting.


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Invisibleamidogen
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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: katbusa]
    #23659759 - 09/19/16 07:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

.


--------------------
The biggest trip of my life was realizing all of the events and actions described in posts made by this account were never real and had never actually happened, but were instead the delusional ramblings of a severely mentally ill human being. I just had to move on for my own good. I love you all.


Edited by amidogen (04/19/18 10:17 AM)


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Offlinekatbusa
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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: amidogen]
    #23659791 - 09/19/16 07:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

amidogen said:
It sucks being new and having your advice be what people point out as being wrong.

That being said, I don't think waving the lid for 10 seconds over his SGFC 3x a day is increasing evaporation appreciably, and certainly not enough to dry his cakes all on its own, nor do I think it's the sole cause of his lack of fruits :shrug: Like was said earlier, 9 days isn't that long, and those cakes look bacterial IMO.




You're totally right. 9 days is not that long but he should start having hyphal knots showing up by now or at least some forms of growth. The thing could have a bacterial issue. I blew those images up and looked all over. The cake looks like it in the starting stages of drying out. Diagnosing issues over the web using 2D photos is hard and a lot of detail gets lost.


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: katbusa]
    #23659803 - 09/19/16 07:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hey, you can't always get it right.  Somebody knows the right answers here, and believe it. They will correct you everytime. 

Just learn from it.  The takeaway is what's important.


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: Mushierage]
    #23659884 - 09/19/16 07:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mushierage said:
Hey, you can't always get it right.  Somebody knows the right answers here, and believe it. They will correct you everytime. 





:guiltyascharged:


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23659947 - 09/19/16 08:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I am also a new cultivator.  I had my first set of cakes in April and got a staggering 5 grams from 2 flushes on 6 cakes.  Colonization took 2 months (1/2 pint brf) and it was 18 days from birth to first pins.  I almost threw in the towel on this hobby but I had another syringe to use so I tried a mini mono with WBS>cvg.  2 flushes netted 70 grams dried.

Don't get discouraged is what Im getting at.  The payoff is too nice when you succeed.


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: Bobabouy]
    #23659986 - 09/19/16 08:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bobabouy said:
Maybe you just need to keep waiting.



:whathesaid:

I'm going to make the assumption that you didn't let your cakes consolidate for a week inside the jars after colonization
If I am correct basically all you have done is let them consolidate in your SGFC
I personally think it's best to wait until you see pins in the jars before birthing dunking and rolling

Also more verm!!!

I would re-roll those cakes making sure the verm actually sticks to and creates a layer around your cake. This will provide a few functions.
It creates a microclimate on the surface of your cakes that helps trigger pinning and also helps you gauge when to re mist your cakes.



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Edited by ComebackKid (09/19/16 08:40 PM)


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Offlinekatbusa
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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: Mushierage]
    #23660023 - 09/19/16 08:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

So I went back and read my own notes. My pride doesn't mean more to me than my word. So I'm going to say it now. When it comes to BRF cakes I'm ultra rusty. I thought I had a better grasp than I did. When I dipped out from growing active's a while back I was doing bulk mono grows which are totally different. The mono's I grew were pretty much dialed in and didn't need any extra help till after the first flush. It's amazing what you forget even if you think you remember its easy to make mistakes.

I would much rather be called out than send someone on their way with bad advice which I gave. I mean this 100% truthfully and not sarcastically thank you for the correction. I need to go back from the start pretty much re-learn the shit I forgot which sucks but it's necessary.


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Re: Why are my cakes not fruiting??? [Re: katbusa]
    #23661265 - 09/20/16 10:32 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

katbusa said:
So I went back and read my own notes. My pride doesn't mean more to me than my word. So I'm going to say it now. When it comes to BRF cakes I'm ultra rusty. I thought I had a better grasp than I did. When I dipped out from growing active's a while back I was doing bulk mono grows which are totally different. The mono's I grew were pretty much dialed in and didn't need any extra help till after the first flush. It's amazing what you forget even if you think you remember its easy to make mistakes.

I would much rather be called out than send someone on their way with bad advice which I gave. I mean this 100% truthfully and not sarcastically thank you for the correction. I need to go back from the start pretty much re-learn the shit I forgot which sucks but it's necessary.



Nicely said man:highfive:


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