|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
First Attempt at Agar and Grain
#23658540 - 09/19/16 11:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
hiya dudes! some of you might remember me from this pretty piece a few months back, and im fulfilling my obsession and finally making the plunge to agar!
ill keep updating as things unravel, right now i have 9 inocculated plates (b+ cubes syringe i made from my print) and i was wondering if -judging by the picture attached, it would be a suitable time to do some transfers to some new plates and get me some quality mycellium. what do u think?

Follow-up: I've been reading up on the agar threads posted here, particularly about strain isolation, and came up with a few questions..
what the hell is my goal supposed to be? according to the videos and from what i understand, i should keep doing transfers to eliminate sectoring and get a nice white non-fuzzy looking chunk of mycellium. is that it?
i dont plan to go through the 500 plates of petris trying to achieve strain isolation, im just trying to give myself an advantage through using good mycellium as opposed to inoculate brf cakes with a syringe and pray for the best. with that in mind, should i transfer to grain all the samples of mycellium that grew nicely on agar? meaning should i try to fruit mycellium from my 2nd and 3rd and 4th agar transfer?
another thing i read is that i should not transfer more than 5 times on the same agar recipe, something about the mycellium's need to a different diet after a few transfers?
Edited by mr_dude (10/06/16 02:20 PM)
|
jesustripped
weirdy


Registered: 02/26/14
Posts: 173
Last seen: 11 months, 16 days
|
Re: Agar, grains, h-poo [Re: mr_dude]
#23660396 - 09/20/16 12:07 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Yes it's time to transfer.
You answered your next question. Your goal, for now, is to make clean mycelium to use as inoculant for grain jars rather than inoculate jars with a syringe and hope for the best.
To try to answer your next question...yes? Say you take three transfers from the plate in the pic, and they look decent. So you take three more from each of those plates, and then either discard them or leave them around to pin and clone. Then the nine plates you just made look great, so you use some to inoculate grain jars, and some to transfer some of the best look myc to more plates. Repeat. And yes, as long as you switch up your agar medium every few transfers, this can go on for quite some time.
I personally started agar about 6-8 weeks ago. I put three drops of spore solution on three plates, and since then I've gone through three 25 foot packages of foil, which means I've wrapped and pc'd approximately 75 plates/jars. From three drops of spore solution. So far. And there's really no end in sight. I hope I've been of some help.
-------------------- row row row your boat gently down the stream, merrily merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
|
You have certainly been of help. I did a few transfers yesterday to a new batch of dishes, luckily i have close to 50 dishes ready for inoculation and planning to go through them all at this phase. I'll post my progress here, wish me luck
|
Peteyboy
SpaceWalker



Registered: 06/21/16
Posts: 2,848
Loc: Trumperica!
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
Re: Agar, grains, h-poo [Re: mr_dude]
#23665896 - 09/21/16 06:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I have been dropping my old plates into grain jars if they are clean...might as well get some fruit while your learning to work with agar....right? The first plates I ever swiped turned out clean, I just spawned those jars, should hopefully have fruits in a little over a week...ahhhh yeeaaaaa
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: Agar, grains, h-poo [Re: Peteyboy]
#23665904 - 09/21/16 06:17 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Cant argue there brother! of course it would be nice to have fruits while learning since you never know when u might stumble upon some massive fruiters. Problem is I havent gotten to the grain tek yet and im kind of intimidated by the entire process, let alone spawning to a bulk substrate which i plan to do (and consequently building a monotub)
so yeah.. eeeek
|
Peteyboy
SpaceWalker



Registered: 06/21/16
Posts: 2,848
Loc: Trumperica!
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
Re: Agar, grains, h-poo [Re: mr_dude]
#23665923 - 09/21/16 06:25 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Dude it's actually pretty easy prepping grains, and substrate. Watch RR's video on prepping rye berries, makes it real easy, I've done four batches now and seem to have nailed every one. Just follow the steps to a T. But... from a newb to a newb, don't worry bout hpoo and pastuerizing right now. Just go with CVG buckettek. You will get experience with your PC doin agar and grains and eventually when you have a nice sack of shrooms, you can start messing around with the more complicated stuff since if you lose a project it won't hurt so much since your sitting on a bunch, know what I'm sayin Building a mono is as easy as 123..
I know it sounds ridiculous, but the teks these guys have come up with on here make the whole thing from start to finish as easy as 123 haha. The one thing that I've found most challenging is the SAB work. Things can get frustrating in there as you learn your way through the necessary processes.
Edited by Peteyboy (09/21/16 06:30 PM)
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: Agar, grains, h-poo [Re: Peteyboy]
#23668843 - 09/22/16 05:42 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
you make a good point my dude, i cant imagine failing after all that time because of some noob mistakes with hpoo and pasteurizing, so better to have a backup stash first, thanks!
a tiny note about SAB: now dont bite my head off, i know how much all of you are keen on working in the utmost sterile environment for agar, and i idolize RR just as much as you and am very aware that he goes the full nine yards (shower, sleeves, mouthwash, FLOWHOOD!!!) but check this out.. i did half of my agar pouring outside of the SAB, and all of my transfers also in my living room with closed windows and NO air currents. i do my best sterilizing the counter and equipment and putting on a mask and gloves and an alcohol burner, that is because i absolutely could not see shit while using a SAB. shit would slip out of my hand and id pour outside the plate even i realize im greatly reducing my chances of success, but lets call it my small experiment. the first plates colonized fine with no trich for 10 plates, the second batch are colonizing as we speak and still nothing. i wanna see just how much i can get away with being sloppy.
Edited by mr_dude (09/22/16 05:50 PM)
|
Bobabouy
Shrimp Boat Captain



Registered: 01/19/16
Posts: 661
Loc: The Black Sea
Last seen: 6 years, 16 days
|
Re: Agar, grains, h-poo [Re: mr_dude]
#23668868 - 09/22/16 05:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Chances are the plates made outside a SAB are not clean, and chances are you may never know it.. Until it's too late! Go to the big box store and buy some thin plexiglass or equivalent. Cut a large square out of your SAB and cover it with the clear plexi. Use an adhesive type caulk to secure it and problem solved, you can see! Also if stuff is slipping and sliding in your hands, wait till the alcohol has evaporated from your gloves before you handle things. Get the hang of it and you'll be much better off.
Edited by Bobabouy (09/22/16 05:53 PM)
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: Agar, grains, h-poo [Re: Bobabouy]
#23668903 - 09/22/16 06:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|

deep down i always knew.. RIP i should get started on a new and improved still-air-box then wish me luck
|
Bobabouy
Shrimp Boat Captain



Registered: 01/19/16
Posts: 661
Loc: The Black Sea
Last seen: 6 years, 16 days
|
Re: Agar, grains, h-poo [Re: mr_dude]
#23668909 - 09/22/16 06:05 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Good luck. Yeah, if you miss bacteria in a plate and then you expand that plate with transfers, you could be having problems down the road and have no clue what is causing it.
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: Agar, grains, h-poo [Re: Bobabouy]
#23680184 - 09/26/16 03:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Im not pursuing this just rather curious. first i thought these plates (result of first transfer) were infested with cobweb since they appeared to be growing in 3d rather than 2d. they appeared to be bulging from the agar and not leveled. but now im not sure, do they look alright to u?

Edited by mr_dude (09/26/16 03:23 PM)
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: Agar, grains, h-poo [Re: mr_dude]
#23680236 - 09/26/16 03:24 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I realized they are not clear enough, so for the sake of science and since i should've tossed them already, here are a couple of more pictures with the lid off. notice the fuzziness? doesnt look myc.. or does it? in the second picture, i took a paper clip and just lightly scratched at it, and it all came "off"
|
Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
|
Re: Agar, grains, h-poo [Re: mr_dude]
#23680599 - 09/26/16 05:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
You just wasted that plate that is agar and the myc will just come right off of it that was a good clean plate
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
|
Quote:
noob47 said: You just wasted that plate that is agar and the myc will just come right off of it that was a good clean plate
well i still have 4 more that look exactly the same. to tell u the truth i dont know anymore where to go from here. the dudes said they're all probably contaminated and i should toss them and start over, and now ur saying its a clean plate. should i keep going with my transfers in a glove box based on these plates? im unclear about one thing: if a plate comes off looking like my plates pictures above, does that rule out the possibility of their having any contaminents? in other words, if i get myc like i did and no trich, arent i on the safe side so far?
Edited by mr_dude (09/27/16 12:40 PM)
|
Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
|
Re: Agar, grains, h-poo [Re: mr_dude]
#23683134 - 09/27/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
If you made those outside of a sab im surprised there isnt any contams and yes if the other dont have bacteria a milky looking growth or green or black you should be good do more transfers in a sab and if on the second transfer still nothing go ahead and noc up some jars
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
|
alright thats good news, ill make second transfers tonight and post the updates
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: Agar, grains, h-poo [Re: mr_dude]
#23687369 - 09/28/16 04:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
In the meantime, how about someone explain to me the deal with isolates and more importantly preserving myc from tubs that were ideal performers. this scenario is still half way through execution but im just thinking ahead.
- I did my first inoculations using 3 different syringes made from the same print. - Not all plates showed the same growth so i started (and still am) doing transfers to get cleaner better myc. - Assuming i end up with 6 plates of strong clean rhizomorphic myc and noc up 6 master grain jars which would each be used as spawn for a batch of jars. - I then would spawn to bulk to 6 tubs and later move to fruiting conditions.
Assuming that in the end 2 tubs go bad, 2 tubs do not fruit, 1 does fruit with less than satisfactory results, and 1 does great. My question at this point are: 1- Could that happen? using clean myc from one plate would fruit well while clean myc from another plate would not (knowing that they originated from the same print and possibly same syringe) 2- how can i at that point reproduce the process in order to get clones of the tub that preformed well? should i keep the agar plate that was used to noc up grains? keep one of the jars and not use it in the tub? 3- assuming tub from plate #1 turned out a good achiever, does that mean any isolates originating from that plate would be equal or better? 4- assuming tub from plate #2 did not fruit at all, does that mean all the isolates made using this plate would also be crap?
|
Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
|
Re: Agar, grains, h-poo [Re: mr_dude]
#23687407 - 09/28/16 04:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Youre over thinking haha if all jars are clean you should get mushies in all tubs given that you give them good conditions once you get fruits pick out a few i usually take first mature and some from good clusters take a tissue sample and eat each one you cloned at different times to test potency then you go from there an isolate is many transfers and may not be worth it after a few transfers let the plate grow out and do another transfer on agar and put the rest into grain then do a g2g to 5 jars and test three of those the others keep in a fridge if the ones you tested give you good resluts g2g into 20 more jars and make 6 more tubs
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
|
Oh.. that certainly seems simple enough. thing is i was reading PussyFart's thread on 10 PE isolates and it freaked me out seeing how some of these seemingly perfect isolates did not fruit at all any takes on that?
|
Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
|
Re: Agar, grains, h-poo [Re: mr_dude]
#23687518 - 09/28/16 04:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Could of been a few things the spawn could of been bacterial i cant remember if they were 10 different isolates or drom the same one if they were different then that isolate was shit... that thread was pretty dope for sure the only tubs i had that stalled were from being too bacterial or the sub was too warm when i spawned to it and it fuckes it up or hit with trich..
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
|
Hey dudes, pics from the second transfer. looks good? they look kinda small to me (these are the small petri dishes 60 mm in diameter)
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23713384 - 10/06/16 02:33 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Updated pictures of the second transfer. My popcorn grains are cooling inside the PC right now and im going to use wedges from these dishes to make 6 or 7 master grain jars. I will however do a third transfer to new dishes at the same time and see how it goes coz this is some interesting stuff 
|
Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,529
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
|
Re: Agar, grains, h-poo [Re: mr_dude]
#23713559 - 10/06/16 03:29 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
mr_dude said: Im not pursuing this just rather curious. first i thought these plates (result of first transfer) were infested with cobweb since they appeared to be growing in 3d rather than 2d. they appeared to be bulging from the agar and not leveled. but now im not sure, do they look alright to u?

These look good. What's your agar recipe...what's the nutrient %? Hard to tell but your colonies look very tomentose and bulging as opposed to rhizo or linear which isn't a bad thing, could be due to the nutrient content or could just be the way it grows...Just curious as I'm running a comparison of 2% and 4% MEA to look at the effects on mycelium growth. Maybe hold the plates up to a light to get better detail for the pic. Here's a 4% plate doing very well.
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: Mycolorado]
#23713627 - 10/06/16 03:50 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
They do look kind of bulgy dont they? Also, they are sucking up all the nutrients since Im noticing the color of the agar in the plate is starting to become lighter (even clear almost) as opposed to the regular agar color in the dishes that are not yet inoculated. What gives? My agar recipe: 5_g instant potato flakes 7_g dextrose 9_g agar 500_ml water
Took a few pictures while holding a plate up to a light, check it out
|
wtfcrazymofo
foil hater



Registered: 07/26/15
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Colonial alley
Last seen: 14 hours, 41 minutes
|
Re: Agar, grains, h-poo [Re: mr_dude]
#23713661 - 10/06/16 04:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Good.
-------------------- If you want to eat->https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541 Bag sealers are to bulky (my hood isn't that big) https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28622922
|
Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,529
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
|
|
Could just be the PDA...typically, there's more of a rhizo pattern on the lower nutrient agar...your recipe is 2.4%. Would be cool to plate some up on DFA or MEA to see if grows differently. They look pretty fucking good and isolated down, but that could very well be a result of the agar...Be nice to see some even flushes off those.
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
|
Mycolorado, u peaked my curiosity so ill work up a 3% MEA batch (15 malt, 10 agar, 500ml) and use it for further transfers. ill also do my best to fruit using myc i currently have and compare with the one i'd hopefully get from the upcoming transfer. wish me luck!
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23749478 - 10/18/16 04:44 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Time to do some math my friends Ive gotten some jars, trays, and 2 tubs. From what i could dig up here, people tend to just eyeball it. but I've never done any spawn/bulk and tubs before and am having a hard time crunching my numbers. (The quarts and pints used here are US liquid; I also did some rounding up on a few calculations):
JAR 570 ml --> 0.6 Quarts --> 1.2 Pint
TRAY Width: 22.5 cm --> 9 Inch Length: 33 cm --> 13 Inch Height: 8 cm --> 3 Inch 6 Liter --> 6.3 Quarts
TUB Width: 41 cm --> 16 Inch Length: 54 cm --> 21 Inch Height: 35 cm --> 14 Inch 77.5 Liter --> 80 Quarts
I'm planning on ending up with 30 of these jars fully colonized before moving to bulk. Assuming that was doable and turned out right, how should i proceed? - Should I mix in trays and wait for colonization or should I mix in a monotub right away? - If using trays, do I just put them in a SGFC when colonized or pour them all together in a monotub instead? - If using manure, do I just keep mixing with for instance 2:1 ratio of manure/spawn until its 4-5 inches? or what is the best ratio if im not cheap on spawn? 1:1?
Any guidance is greatly appreicated 
On a side note, this is a sample of the dishes I ended up with. This one had a little sectoring, so i sacrificed it for a decent picture seeing that i have quite a few that look the same. is it good?
|
Th3Issu3
Stranger Danger


Registered: 12/30/14
Posts: 671
Loc: fucktown
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23749517 - 10/18/16 04:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
you need to go buy some green food coloring and put a few drops in when you are making your agar, so you can see things better
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: Th3Issu3]
#23749525 - 10/18/16 05:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Yup already got food coloring for my next batch. Arent the pictures clear tho? Something wrong with em? Other than that, any thoughts?
|
morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!


Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: Th3Issu3]
#23749591 - 10/18/16 05:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Th3Issu3 said: you need to go buy some green food coloring and put a few drops in when you are making your agar, so you can see things better
Why green? Why not purple? Or red?
Color in the agar might make things slightly easier to see -but it's not that big of a deal.
Op.
10 of your 1.2 pint jars will equal around 6 quarts for your 80 quart tub.
My favorite amount of spawn to use for a 66qt tub is 5qts spawn. 6quarts to your 80qt tub is the same in relation.
I would worry less about an ideal spawn-sub ratio and more about good conditions and clean grain spawn.
I would use ten of your jars per tub and simply create a 3-4" deep substrate evenly mixed with your spawn.
I would not use trays unless you are attempting to test out multiple sets of cultures.
I would also use coir as it is extremely user friendly -it can be pasteurized, sterilized, whatever and cubensis mushrooms love it. In my opinion, it is just as, if not more nutritious than manure. Bucket-twk is too easy and is a tested method with awesome results. If you haven't seen it yet it is in my signature.
I would simply line your tub with a liner and pour away. No exact science.
Strive for a yield of 1 dry oz per quart of spawn used in your tub-first flush.
If you go by my above-strive for 6oz dry first flush as a starting point. The more you learn how to dial-in your tubs and the more you continue to work on good genetics and clean spawn through agar- the more this number will increase.
Using 6quarts in your tub is a good starting point... Not too many eggs in one basket and you should see a nice quick spawn run.
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: morty422]
#23749647 - 10/18/16 05:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Yes I have come across the bucket tek and its among my bookmarks. Thanks a bunch your answer is just what I needed. The reason I chose manure over choir is because in my circumstances, it is a lot easier to acquire and it does not seem too hard to handle. But if you say you believe choir is even better and that does seem like the popular opinion, ill give it a go. by your calculations, i can easily do 2 tubs at once. do u advise against it? im just thinking in the sense of go big or go home..
cheers!
|
azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23749667 - 10/18/16 05:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Like, dude man, uh...like, this thread totally reads like cheech and Chong man
|
morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!


Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23749807 - 10/18/16 06:44 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
mr_dude said: Yes I have come across the bucket tek and its among my bookmarks. Thanks a bunch your answer is just what I needed. The reason I chose manure over choir is because in my circumstances, it is a lot easier to acquire and it does not seem too hard to handle. But if you say you believe choir is even better and that does seem like the popular opinion, ill give it a go. by your calculations, i can easily do 2 tubs at once. do u advise against it? im just thinking in the sense of go big or go home..
cheers!
If you have 50 jars do 5 tubs at once... hell, I have 8 rolling now.
Albeit-this is the most I've had going at once-I usually have 4-6.
If you want to make a systematic process -now's the time to start it.
If you simply want some weight-do them all.
No science there either. 
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: morty422]
#23782184 - 10/29/16 09:33 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
This is what my jars look like atm should i have used smaller agar wedges? as u may have noticed, the are big chunks, will that be an issue? i think not.
|
morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!


Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23782564 - 10/29/16 12:46 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I like to add a wedge-let it recover-shake the wedge to create multiple points of growth and then wait until the jar is about 40-50% colonized. After the initial shake and the grains are 40-50%, I do one more shake to really bring them to completion.
This process usually takes 12-14 days for me with qt jars.
In the past, I have attempted to allow the wedge to grow out without the first shake. It always seemed to take much longer as I believe the mycelium didn't want to leave the wedge piece without first exhausting the first form of media. By shaking the wedge-I feel like I am sort of getting the mycelium off the wedge and onto the grains where I want it - and the more rapid growth seems to justify my opinion.
Wedge size being large is a better thing in my opinion, and if you are going to shake a large wedge- it is almost the same as shaking smaller wedges that add up to the same size.
Your choice of grain is a strange one...popcorn is the worst grain I can think of to use in mushroom cultivation... it is expensive, prone to contamination and provides less yields (imo) than other more cost effective grains.
Oats have been my thing lately-they break up super easy, are nutritious as fuck, and have provided me with better yields with my current cultures.
I grabbed 271 dry grams off my last monotub with 5 qts spawn and bucket tek-first flush. Oats are the tits! I highly recommend them.
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: morty422]
#23782828 - 10/29/16 02:22 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Actually, popcorn is RR's grain of choice  I followed this tek and the convenient thing about it is the prepping time. pretty quick and easy. I have yet to find out about contams and yield tho. plus popcorn here is quite cheap
|
dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23783319 - 10/29/16 05:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
If popcorn were RR's grain of choice, he'd have made a tek about it instead of rye berries…
I hate popcorn myself. I know some people have had success with it, but it's crazy expensive, and can be quite problematic for a few reasons.
It's probably the most expensive grain you could buy for spawn.
|
azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: dankington]
#23783359 - 10/29/16 05:58 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I've never tried it.
|
morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!


Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: azur]
#23783846 - 10/29/16 08:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
azur said: I've never tried it.
Don't.
|
dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23783897 - 10/29/16 09:14 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
from your linked thread:
Quote:
FooMan said: The tek looks great and was nicely written. The problem is that most people here aren't big fans of using popcorn as grain spawn except for RR. He loves the stuff!
Obviously said facetiously, as this was the first result in an RR/popcorn search:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Do what you have to do to get the excess moisture out before proceeding. Agar is right, popcorn is the worst possible choice of spawn out of all that are available. It is not faster to colonize. The large kernel size means there is far less surface area for the mycelium to colonize, so it appears to colonize faster because a quart jar of popcorn will finish in less time than a quart of rye or wbs. However, since there is FAR less surface area to colonize in a quart of popcorn, what appears to be faster colonization is actually much slower because only about 10% of the mycelium that a similar sized jar of rye would be produced, is produced with popcorn.
In addition, popcorn is far more prone to contaminants once spawned to bulk. I arrived at this conclusion after hundreds, if not thousands of popcorn projects a few years ago. The failure rate was higher than with any other spawn, so I went back to the old standard-organic rye berries, which are also about 1/3 the price of popcorn, which gives far more bang for the buck. RR
and this:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Popcorn seems to colonize very fast, but it's an illusion. There is so much surface area due to the large kernel size that it doesn't take much mycelium to cover a jar full of popcorn. WBS and rye have much smaller kernel size, thus more total surface area for the mycelium to colonize, resulting in much more mycelium for a given jar size. That's why it takes longer for a quart of rye to colonize than a quart of popcorn.
The above aside, popcorn is a medeocre producer at best. When spawned to bulk substrate, the large kernels get the mycelium scraped off them, which now takes longer to recover than a small kernel, while exposed to manure or straw which hasn't been sterilized. Most growers report much higher contaminant rates with popcorn. Additionaly, popcorn is the lowest in natural triptophans of any of the common spawn materials. I quit using it years ago. RR
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: That 'oozy' look is bacillus, and it's also why you're seeing 'slow colonization'. An uncontaminated quart jar of popcorn will colonize fully in a week to ten days, so a pint should beat even that. Toss them out and start over with a proper spawn material. Popcorn is rich in bacterial endospores that survive the PC, which leads to wet spot bacteria far too often.
After making hundreds of popcorn jars, I decided a few years ago that the failure rate was simply too high. There's other problems with popcorn as well, such as the large kernel size which gets damaged when you spawn to manure or straw, leading to a higher rate of contamination later on.
Never try to save contaminated jars. That is unsound mycological advice. You'll stir up and release even more contaminants into your grow area, threatening your future projects.
In my experience, rye, millet, WBS, rye grass seed, and even brf are all far superior to popcorn. RR
I mean, it goes on and on. Did you actually research, or did that joke just fly way over your head?
|
azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: dankington]
#23783903 - 10/29/16 09:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Have you?
|
dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: azur]
#23783917 - 10/29/16 09:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Have I used popcorn? Yeah I used it quite a bit when I started. I never got any good results from it. I know I was also a noob, but I still wouldn't try it again.
|
azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: dankington]
#23783922 - 10/29/16 09:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
No, sorry. Didn't see your response. Was talking to the dude with the weird avatar, Mork, I think his name is.
|
morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!


Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: azur]
#23783948 - 10/29/16 09:33 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
azur said: No, sorry. Didn't see your response. Was talking to the dude with the weird avatar, Mork, I think his name is.
I talked to Mork about the poppycorn...
Mork did a side-by-side mini-mono of WBS vs. Popcorn.
Mork decided to never again try popcorn.
He said popcorn blows...
|
azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: morty422]
#23783974 - 10/29/16 09:47 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Ha ha. Sorry dood. I'm frequently banned from here because of cron. Fuck you cron.  So I don't really know anyone in here anymore.
|
Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: azur]
#23784093 - 10/29/16 10:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Dude thats a fucked way to make someone enlarge your "thumb" lmao fucker
|
azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: Boogieman47]
#23784120 - 10/29/16 10:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
|
morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!


Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: azur]
#23784152 - 10/29/16 11:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
azur said:

If the highfive he just gave you is an accurate representation... then you missed his "thumb"...
If not...

|
Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: morty422]
#23784211 - 10/30/16 12:07 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Haha that reminded me of the novie waiting haha
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: Boogieman47]
#23784444 - 10/30/16 04:52 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
fucking pop corn piece of crap.. damnit. can i use colonized popcorn jars and do g2g to millet jars?
|
Mushierage
SWIM Sinker



Registered: 06/29/16
Posts: 1,094
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23784470 - 10/30/16 05:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
You can, but you still run the risk of spreading those pesky endospores to your other jars. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. If you have millet, you should start with millet, and g2g with it as well.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
|
azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23784507 - 10/30/16 06:26 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Generally one would g2g from a smaller grain to a larger grain, not the other way around
|
morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!


Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: Boogieman47]
#23784764 - 10/30/16 09:17 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
noob47 said: Haha that reminded me of the novie waiting haha
Nooo. Not the Brain... it's so veiny!!
Haha.
Classic movie
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: morty422]
#23785043 - 10/30/16 11:03 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
how about instead of g2g from popcorn to millet, i prepare an LC jar and use that to inoc new millet jars?
|
dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23785075 - 10/30/16 11:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
sure. So you're going to germinate and clean up growth on agar, then inoculate an LC. Right?
|
Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: dankington]
#23785086 - 10/30/16 11:20 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Couldnt he throw some grain into lc if it was clean spawn? Op you dont want to noc up lc with spores ever
|
dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: Boogieman47]
#23785102 - 10/30/16 11:26 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
GLC is not really recommended. Not because it can't work, but because it's so inconsistent. Most often, there are still endospores with the grains, and that nutritious liquid are going to make them multiply like crazy.
You can however, plop a colonized grain on an agar plate.
|
Mushierage
SWIM Sinker



Registered: 06/29/16
Posts: 1,094
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: dankington]
#23785109 - 10/30/16 11:28 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I never understood why if you already have colonized grain to G2G with, why you would go from grain to LC, to grain, to spawning. Seems sort of counterproductive to me unless you have 40 extra jars sitting around that need to be inoculated.
Also what Dank said.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
|
Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: dankington]
#23785119 - 10/30/16 11:31 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Ya thats true what about making an li with a quarter of the jar i mean it would be 100% to clean up spores on agar but if he has a master pretty much now... mush because hes using popcorn trying to go into millet i dont use lc period only use li that first day i make it but usually g2g oats...
I saw you ninja dank haha ya that would work faster on agar
Edited by Boogieman47 (10/30/16 11:32 AM)
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: Boogieman47]
#23785193 - 10/30/16 11:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
to clear things up, since i got my balls kicked for using popcorn to begin with, i want to do the transition to millet and toss or just experiment with the popcorn jars. basically im just asking about the best way to "use" my colonizing popcorn jars to inocculate millet since im not entirely satisfied with the status of my petri dishes right now. i do like the idea of using a colonized popcorn kernel and throw that sucker on clean agar plates. i think ill go ahead and do that
|
azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: Mushierage]
#23785229 - 10/30/16 12:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mushierage said: I never understood why if you already have colonized grain to G2G with, why you would go from grain to LC, to grain, to spawning. Seems sort of counterproductive to me unless you have 40 extra jars sitting around that need to be inoculated.
Also what Dank said.
Because if you only have one jar of grain, a small lc from it can run circles around any g2g. I mostly g2g now (except Tampa and lion's mane), but I think I'm gonna start lcing it again. Speed wins
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: azur]
#23831323 - 11/14/16 06:47 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
This is where im at now. Picture of jar shaken at both at 10% and 75% and another that hasnt been shaken yet at 75%.
|
spore-ty



Registered: 01/21/16
Posts: 1,028
Loc: In the bush
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23831394 - 11/14/16 07:27 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Azur so you think lc is faster than g2g?
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: spore-ty]
#23910615 - 12/09/16 03:20 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
hey! I ended up fucking up the millet and stuck to the popcorn this time. I did get rye but decided to let this popcorn stuff play out. I realize they have been colonizing for ever, but i have been waiting on some coco coir to get here and praised be cheesus they arrived today! check out how my jars look like and tell me if i ruined them by keeping them this long im pretty positive they're good though
by the way, it started getting rather cold here for a a couple of weeks now, how will that affect damion5050's coir tek? its close to 12 degrees celcius at night, it can even reach 8 any day now, and yes, we're talking about indoor temp (no heating)..
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23913375 - 12/10/16 02:51 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
anyone?
|
enlightenment
alchemist


Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 1,647
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 months, 22 days
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23913388 - 12/10/16 02:55 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
The jars look good. 12°C is low. I fruited cubensis at 14°C but they did not perform good.
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
|
hmm too low u say.. can i use an aquarium heater and a water bath for the monotub?
|
enlightenment
alchemist


Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 1,647
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 months, 22 days
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23913403 - 12/10/16 02:58 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
You should heat the room and not the tub. Isn't there another room that has a higher temperature?
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
|
hehe i wish, i wouldve slept in it myself
|
enlightenment
alchemist


Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 1,647
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 months, 22 days
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23913412 - 12/10/16 03:02 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
You live in a house/flat where every room is lower than 12°C?
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
|
well yeah u make me sound so poor.. we dont have heating, we're used to it. just carpets and we dress well.. right now its 15 degrees but at times it can drop significantly.. u make me sad bro
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23920229 - 12/12/16 04:33 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
urgent question: damion's coir tek states that he "optionally" covers the tub with a garbage bag. does that mean the alternative is leaving it uncovered? if i have a tub that comes with a lid, do i close the lid and cover with a garbage bag? doesnt the substrate need GE for proper colonization?
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23920292 - 12/12/16 04:54 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
i think i can answer my own question now. most lids dont seal too tight on the tubs and this is where we can get the gas exchange, even with the garbage bag on. am i right?
|
Peteyboy
SpaceWalker



Registered: 06/21/16
Posts: 2,848
Loc: Trumperica!
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#23920480 - 12/12/16 06:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Bag method is outdated...no bag is better...
|
azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: spore-ty]
#23921057 - 12/12/16 09:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
spore-ty said: Azur so you think lc is faster than g2g?
Depends. If you use a decent amount it can be. But you must prep your grain a little dryer. But the actual process is faster and you can stretch it further
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: Peteyboy]
#23921467 - 12/13/16 12:15 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Peteyboy said: Bag method is outdated...no bag is better...
Good to know, thanks man
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#24023119 - 01/19/17 02:38 PM (7 years, 11 days ago) |
|
|
its been over a month now and i believe we are barely at 50%. is it the cold weather thats slowing the process down? also, how can i safely check if its drying out and needs misting? i still see some condensation on parts of the tub's side.
anyway my friends, check the pictures i managed to take while trying my best not to contaminate it and let me know if its still alright or if i should lose hope..

Edited by mr_dude (01/19/17 05:39 PM)
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#24025407 - 01/20/17 11:47 AM (7 years, 10 days ago) |
|
|
bump
|
Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,529
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#24028312 - 01/21/17 02:08 PM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
How many jars of spawn were used? Looks like you could have used 2-3X more. The sub could be slow to colonize if little spawn was used as well as the cooler growing temps. Definitely move to rye if you can get it at a decent price as it's very forgiving and is a much better spawn than corn. I think once you get some good clean spawn (not corn) going, you'll see way faster colonization of both it as well as the sub and all around better results.
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: Mycolorado]
#24028350 - 01/21/17 02:31 PM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
i think that substrate looks dry. and you can see changes in the coloration of the coco. which means...
1. too dry 2. cvg/cv was not mixed/broken up thoroughly...not good.
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: Mycolorado]
#24029574 - 01/22/17 02:40 AM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mycolorado said: How many jars of spawn were used? Looks like you could have used 2-3X more. The sub could be slow to colonize if little spawn was used as well as the cooler growing temps. Definitely move to rye if you can get it at a decent price as it's very forgiving and is a much better spawn than corn. I think once you get some good clean spawn (not corn) going, you'll see way faster colonization of both it as well as the sub and all around better results.
well i used 5 quarts of spawn and 2 quarts of verm, but the choir is where i seemed to have gone wrong since i had a 10 pound brick of choir and tried my best to get a piece of the correct weight. Ill definitely knock up some rye jars as i had decided before, but what should i do with this monotub? should i just keep waiting? or put it into fruiting?
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#24186083 - 03/23/17 12:52 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Ive waited this long to be absolutely certain that im not gonna get any fruit out of this tub. it colonized slowly, but it did. i dont know whether the cold killed it or other factors, i opened it up and poked around and noticed it was too moist, the lid has significant condensation. They do smell right however. Shall i toss it? at this point im more interested in learning than to get fruits. what are ur thoughts?
|
mynakedrat
The phantom hourglass


Registered: 02/16/17
Posts: 4,629
Loc: Inner Astral levels
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mr_dude]
#24186364 - 03/23/17 02:42 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Keep going! It looks Redy to give some. Light, and Fae! What happened to That corner? Geez you've been at this forever!
|
mr_dude
Wanderer


Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 93
Loc: Mordor
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: First Attempt at Agar and Grain [Re: mynakedrat]
#24186580 - 03/23/17 03:59 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
no kidding? i gave up on them. is there a scenario where the tub gets colonized yet doesnt fruit? the corner well umm i poked around as i said..
|
|