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The Ecstatic
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US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold 4
#23658254 - 09/19/16 09:35 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Article
So, this base that "coalition forces" just bombed the shit out of happens to be one of the only Eastern Syrian cities not to be overrun by ISIS. In fact, Deir Ezzor was the most successful military outpost holding off ISIS for over a year.
And we, oops, bombed them.
First off, does anyone really think we accidentally bombed a city thats been a Syrian army position for years? Does anyone really think we convinced Denmark and Australia to make the same accident?
I reeeeaaallllyyyyy dont want this to get moved to the conspiracy sub, but I think its pretty clear that the West is aiding and abetting ISIS in order to destabilize Syria (Iran's last ally).
Thoughts?
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chopstick
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: The Ecstatic] 3
#23659179 - 09/19/16 03:54 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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It was a desperate move by the Americans to prevent their pet terrorists from suffering a total military defeat.
The US is blatantly supporting Al-Qaeda & the Islamic State in Syria, even now going so far as to provide them with close air support.
ISIS has promised to slaughter & enslave all 300,000 civilians that are surrounded in Deir Ezzor. The USA just killed 100 people that were defending them!
I'm so disgusted by this I wouldn't even know where to begin.
We need to find a way to educate Americans about how their government is supporting terrorism.
The problem is, nobody cares.
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demiu5
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: chopstick] 1
#23659248 - 09/19/16 04:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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reminds me of bush jr. taking a chopper 16 miles out to the navy carrier. oh, we thought it was a lot farther away than that
the US will do what it wants, when it wants, and if you step up in the way, prepare for a fight, or "accidental" bombing
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Ezuma
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: demiu5]
#23659307 - 09/19/16 04:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
demiu5 said:
the US will do what it wants, when it wants, and if you step up in the way, prepare for a fight, or "accidental" bombing
truth it takes a special kind of retard to see their interests abroad as in any way short of evil
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: demiu5] 4
#23659333 - 09/19/16 04:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's pretty clear the US was assisting ISIS in the takeover of the area, which ISIS wasn't able to take on its own.
The US is saying it was an accident, but this opens the doors for ISIS to take control of that area.
Now, Russia will likely need to step in to stop ISIS, and the US will accuse Russia of violating a cease fire and try to drum up more anti-Russian sentiment.
I'm sure the mainstream news agencies will remain silent.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Ezuma
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#23659341 - 09/19/16 04:40 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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they (mainstream media) probably won't it's depressing how well maintained american global control is, that most people think of them as 'the good guys' and are terrified of Russia and China invading, and fantastical nonsense like that
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qman
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#23659412 - 09/19/16 05:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: It's pretty clear the US was assisting ISIS in the takeover of the area, which ISIS wasn't able to take on its own.
The US is saying it was an accident, but this opens the doors for ISIS to take control of that area.
Now, Russia will likely need to step in to stop ISIS, and the US will accuse Russia of violating a cease fire and try to drum up more anti-Russian sentiment.
I'm sure the mainstream news agencies will remain silent.
I think if someone is going to theorize on a possible scenario, it's important to include the motivations behind that speculation.
People including myself might not like US operations the Middle East, but the US doesn't do things without a reason even if they are misguided reasons.
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qman
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: Ezuma]
#23659416 - 09/19/16 05:11 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ezuma said: they (mainstream media) probably won't it's depressing how well maintained american global control is, that most people think of them as 'the good guys' and are terrified of Russia and China invading, and fantastical nonsense like that
If the actions are for US interests and they benefit US citizens, then they are "the good guys".
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: qman] 1
#23659460 - 09/19/16 05:25 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: It's pretty clear the US was assisting ISIS in the takeover of the area, which ISIS wasn't able to take on its own.
The US is saying it was an accident, but this opens the doors for ISIS to take control of that area.
Now, Russia will likely need to step in to stop ISIS, and the US will accuse Russia of violating a cease fire and try to drum up more anti-Russian sentiment.
I'm sure the mainstream news agencies will remain silent.
I think if someone is going to theorize on a possible scenario, it's important to include the motivations behind that speculation.
People including myself might not like US operations the Middle East, but the US doesn't do things without a reason even if they are misguided reasons.
The reasons to support (either directly or indirectly) ISIS are clear.
We got to put heat on an Iraqi PM who was getting too close to Iran, we get to potentially overthrow Iran's last regional ally, we get to spread a bunch of disgruntled Arabs abroad and strip away civil liberties when they inevitably lash out, we get to enrich the "defense" complex, we get to distract from important things like oil spills, prison strikes, and corruption, thats just off the top of my head.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#23659485 - 09/19/16 05:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ask yourself this:
Given the cluster-fuck imbroglio over there in Syria, and given the history of grotesque U.S. geopolitical activity, do you really think the U.S. government is doing the right thing?
Would it not be more appropriate to ask the question: "What are we doing over there that isn't detestable?"
I'm sure those assholes are doing everything they can get away with. Press exposure isn't a threat.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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qman
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23659488 - 09/19/16 05:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: It's pretty clear the US was assisting ISIS in the takeover of the area, which ISIS wasn't able to take on its own.
The US is saying it was an accident, but this opens the doors for ISIS to take control of that area.
Now, Russia will likely need to step in to stop ISIS, and the US will accuse Russia of violating a cease fire and try to drum up more anti-Russian sentiment.
I'm sure the mainstream news agencies will remain silent.
I think if someone is going to theorize on a possible scenario, it's important to include the motivations behind that speculation.
People including myself might not like US operations the Middle East, but the US doesn't do things without a reason even if they are misguided reasons.
The reasons to support (either directly or indirectly) ISIS are clear.
We got to put heat on an Iraqi PM who was getting too close to Iran, we get to potentially overthrow Iran's last regional ally, we get to spread a bunch of disgruntled Arabs abroad and strip away civil liberties when they inevitably lash out, we get to enrich the "defense" complex, we get to distract from important things like oil spills, prison strikes, and corruption, thats just off the top of my head.
That's nothing more than an emotional response based on wild speculations, it's always about representing big money and their interests, none of your theories addresses that reality.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: qman] 1
#23659501 - 09/19/16 05:41 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: I think if someone is going to theorize on a possible scenario, it's important to include the motivations behind that speculation.
People including myself might not like US operations the Middle East, but the US doesn't do things without a reason even if they are misguided reasons.
It's for control of oil in the middle east. There are a ton of sources that back this up. Here's a good one:
Quote:
...memo from the Secretary of Defense’s office. It says we’re going to attack and destroy the governments in 7 countries in five years – we’re going to start with Iraq, and then we’re going to move to Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Iran.”
Clark said the aim of this plot was this: “They wanted us to destabilize the Middle East, turn it upside down, make it under our control.” He then recounted a conversation he had had ten years earlier with Paul Wolfowitz — back in 1991 — in which the then-number-3-Pentagon-official, after criticizing Bush 41 for not toppling Saddam, told Clark: “But one thing we did learn [from the Persian Gulf War] is that we can use our military in the region – in the Middle East – and the Soviets won’t stop us. And we’ve got about 5 or 10 years to clean up those old Soviet regimes – Syria, Iran [sic], Iraq — before the next great superpower comes on to challenge us.” Clark said he was shocked by Wolfowitz’s desires because, as Clark put it: “the purpose of the military is to start wars and change governments? It’s not to deter conflicts?”
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#23659531 - 09/19/16 05:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: I think if someone is going to theorize on a possible scenario, it's important to include the motivations behind that speculation.
People including myself might not like US operations the Middle East, but the US doesn't do things without a reason even if they are misguided reasons.
It's for control of oil in the middle east. There are a ton of sources that back this up. Here's a good one:
Quote:
...memo from the Secretary of Defense’s office. It says we’re going to attack and destroy the governments in 7 countries in five years – we’re going to start with Iraq, and then we’re going to move to Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Iran.”
Clark said the aim of this plot was this: “They wanted us to destabilize the Middle East, turn it upside down, make it under our control.” He then recounted a conversation he had had ten years earlier with Paul Wolfowitz — back in 1991 — in which the then-number-3-Pentagon-official, after criticizing Bush 41 for not toppling Saddam, told Clark: “But one thing we did learn [from the Persian Gulf War] is that we can use our military in the region – in the Middle East – and the Soviets won’t stop us. And we’ve got about 5 or 10 years to clean up those old Soviet regimes – Syria, Iran [sic], Iraq — before the next great superpower comes on to challenge us.” Clark said he was shocked by Wolfowitz’s desires because, as Clark put it: “the purpose of the military is to start wars and change governments? It’s not to deter conflicts?”
That's better, it's at least a "rational" reason for US actions in the region.
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Ezuma
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: qman] 1
#23660304 - 09/19/16 11:26 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Ezuma said: they (mainstream media) probably won't it's depressing how well maintained american global control is, that most people think of them as 'the good guys' and are terrified of Russia and China invading, and fantastical nonsense like that
If the actions are for US interests and they benefit US citizens, then they are "the good guys".
see I knew deep down you were a thug all along
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: qman] 1
#23660331 - 09/19/16 11:37 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Ezuma said: they (mainstream media) probably won't it's depressing how well maintained american global control is, that most people think of them as 'the good guys' and are terrified of Russia and China invading, and fantastical nonsense like that
If the actions are for US interests and they benefit US citizens, then they are "the good guys".
this is called the bandwagon fallacy. also, Obama's policies has landed some net benefit for some of US citizens...so what do you say to that? good guy?
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: qman] 1
#23660903 - 09/20/16 07:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: It's pretty clear the US was assisting ISIS in the takeover of the area, which ISIS wasn't able to take on its own.
The US is saying it was an accident, but this opens the doors for ISIS to take control of that area.
Now, Russia will likely need to step in to stop ISIS, and the US will accuse Russia of violating a cease fire and try to drum up more anti-Russian sentiment.
I'm sure the mainstream news agencies will remain silent.
I think if someone is going to theorize on a possible scenario, it's important to include the motivations behind that speculation.
People including myself might not like US operations the Middle East, but the US doesn't do things without a reason even if they are misguided reasons.
The reasons to support (either directly or indirectly) ISIS are clear.
We got to put heat on an Iraqi PM who was getting too close to Iran, we get to potentially overthrow Iran's last regional ally, we get to spread a bunch of disgruntled Arabs abroad and strip away civil liberties when they inevitably lash out, we get to enrich the "defense" complex, we get to distract from important things like oil spills, prison strikes, and corruption, thats just off the top of my head.
That's nothing more than an emotional response based on wild speculations, it's always about representing big money and their interests, none of your theories addresses that reality.
Yes they fucking do. And its about power just as much as money.
--------------------
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qman
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: Ezuma]
#23660989 - 09/20/16 08:32 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ezuma said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Ezuma said: they (mainstream media) probably won't it's depressing how well maintained american global control is, that most people think of them as 'the good guys' and are terrified of Russia and China invading, and fantastical nonsense like that
If the actions are for US interests and they benefit US citizens, then they are "the good guys".
see I knew deep down you were a thug all along
If you want the majority of US citizens to get outraged for their government conducting military operations that directly benefit their economic well-being, you're delusional.
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qman
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: akira_akuma]
#23660994 - 09/20/16 08:34 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Ezuma said: they (mainstream media) probably won't it's depressing how well maintained american global control is, that most people think of them as 'the good guys' and are terrified of Russia and China invading, and fantastical nonsense like that
If the actions are for US interests and they benefit US citizens, then they are "the good guys".
this is called the bandwagon fallacy. also, Obama's policies has landed some net benefit for some of US citizens...so what do you say to that? good guy?
"has landed some net benefit for some US citizens"
Really, what benefit for who?
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qman
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23661001 - 09/20/16 08:36 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: It's pretty clear the US was assisting ISIS in the takeover of the area, which ISIS wasn't able to take on its own.
The US is saying it was an accident, but this opens the doors for ISIS to take control of that area.
Now, Russia will likely need to step in to stop ISIS, and the US will accuse Russia of violating a cease fire and try to drum up more anti-Russian sentiment.
I'm sure the mainstream news agencies will remain silent.
I think if someone is going to theorize on a possible scenario, it's important to include the motivations behind that speculation.
People including myself might not like US operations the Middle East, but the US doesn't do things without a reason even if they are misguided reasons.
The reasons to support (either directly or indirectly) ISIS are clear.
We got to put heat on an Iraqi PM who was getting too close to Iran, we get to potentially overthrow Iran's last regional ally, we get to spread a bunch of disgruntled Arabs abroad and strip away civil liberties when they inevitably lash out, we get to enrich the "defense" complex, we get to distract from important things like oil spills, prison strikes, and corruption, thats just off the top of my head.
That's nothing more than an emotional response based on wild speculations, it's always about representing big money and their interests, none of your theories addresses that reality.
Yes they fucking do. And its about power just as much as money.
There's a million ways "to distract from important things" that don't involved military operations 5000 miles away from the homeland.
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akira_akuma
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: qman] 1
#23661023 - 09/20/16 08:55 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: If you want the majority of US citizens to get outraged for their government conducting military operations that directly benefit their economic well-being, you're delusional.
you keep putting your authoritarian foot in your mouth, don't you.
it's economic well-being to take from anyone, so does that mean we should just do that? just cause?
there's this thing called morals, and ethics. you're just back-trailing to the hypocritical methods used by your very own sworn enemies, Hilary, and Obama. nice complete backtrack on what you espouse as your so-called "values".
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: qman]
#23661062 - 09/20/16 09:22 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Distractions are just a bonus, care to address every single other reason, for which there are explicit monied interests?
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: akira_akuma]
#23661086 - 09/20/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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It seems to me, that discussions over military matters always get bogged down over "right and wrong" or "morality" which is understandable, but not necessarily helpful for moving the discussion along.
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Ezuma said: they (mainstream media) probably won't it's depressing how well maintained american global control is, that most people think of them as 'the good guys' and are terrified of Russia and China invading, and fantastical nonsense like that
If the actions are for US interests and they benefit US citizens, then they are "the good guys".
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Ask yourself this:
Given the cluster-fuck imbroglio over there in Syria, and given the history of grotesque U.S. geopolitical activity, do you really think the U.S. government is doing the right thing?
Would it not be more appropriate to ask the question: "What are we doing over there that isn't detestable?"
I'm sure those assholes are doing everything they can get away with. Press exposure isn't a threat. 
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Ezuma said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Ezuma said: they (mainstream media) probably won't it's depressing how well maintained american global control is, that most people think of them as 'the good guys' and are terrified of Russia and China invading, and fantastical nonsense like that
If the actions are for US interests and they benefit US citizens, then they are "the good guys".
see I knew deep down you were a thug all along
If you want the majority of US citizens to get outraged for their government conducting military operations that directly benefit their economic well-being, you're delusional.
Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
qman said: If you want the majority of US citizens to get outraged for their government conducting military operations that directly benefit their economic well-being, you're delusional.
you keep putting your authoritarian foot in your mouth, don't you.
it's economic well-being to take from anyone, so does that mean we should just do that? just cause?
there's this thing called morals, and ethics. you're just back-trailing to the hypocritical methods used by your very own sworn enemies, Hilary, and Obama. nice complete backtrack on what you espouse as your so-called "values".
the first thing to understand is that war is never about morality, it is always about policy.
I discussed this briefly here
Quote:
Quote:
ballsalsa said: Sir Basil Hart again: (he's my go-to theorist in case you couldn't tell already)
Quote:
While there are many causes for which a state goes to war, its fundamental object can be epitomized as that of ensuring the continuance of its policy--in face of the determination of the opposing state to pursue a contrary policy. In the human will lies the source and mainspring of conflict. For a state to gain its object in war it has to change this adverse will into compliance with its own policy. Once this is realized, the military principle of "destroying the main armed forces on the battlefield", which Clausewitz's disciples exalted to a paramount position, fits into its proper place along with the other instruments of grand strategy--which include the more oblique kinds of military action as well as economic pressure, propaganda, and diplomacy. Instead of giving excessive emphasis to one means, which circumstances may render ineffective, it is wiser to choose and combine whichever are the most suitable, most penetrative, and most conservative of effort--i.e. which will subdue the opposing will at the lowest war-cost and minimum injury to the post-war prospect. For the most decisive victory is of no value if a nation be bled white in gaining it. It should be the aim of grand strategy to discover and pierce the Achilles' heel of the opposing government's power to make war. And strategy, in turn, should seek to penetrate a joint in the harness of the opposing forces. To apply one's strength where the opponent is strong weakens oneself disproportionately to the effect attained. To strike with strong effect, one must strike at weakness. It is thus more potent, as well as more economical, to disarm the enemy rather than attempt his destruction by hard fighting. For the 'mauling' method entails not only a dangerous cost in exhaustion but the risk that chance may determine the issue. A strategist should think in terms of paralyzing, not of killing. Even on the lower plane of warfare, a man killed is merely one man less, whereas a man unnerved is a highly infectious carrier of fear, capable of spreading an endemic of panic. On a higher plane of warfare, the impression made on the mind of the opposing commander can nullify the whole fighting power that his troops posses. And on a still higher plane, psychological pressure on the government of a country may suffice to cancel all the resources at its command--so that the sword drops from a paralyzed hand. To repeat the keynote of the initial chapter: the analysis of war shows that while the nominal strength of a country is represented by its numbers and resources, this muscular development is dependent on the state of its internal organs and nerve-system--upon its stability of control, morale, and supply. Direct pressure always tends to harden and consolidate the resistance of an opponent--like snow which is squeezed into a snowball, the more compact it becomes, the slower it is to melt. Alike in policy and in strategy--or to put it another way, in the strategy of both the diplomatic and the military spheres--the indirect approach is the most effective way to upset the opponents balance, psychological and physical, thereby making possible his overthrow.
underlines are mine for emphasis.
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akira_akuma
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: ballsalsa]
#23661182 - 09/20/16 10:04 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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[in terms of war] yeah, well, Qman wants to put himself on the moral highground, when it simply doesn't make any sense what he's saying. "good guys". no. it's a preference. not reality. in reality, their are no "good guys", just players.
his becoming null and void will lead, incrementally, to better policy; though, let's not get too carried away, as Sir Basil Hart implies...afterall, war isn't about morality, it's about policy. squeeze the snow.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: akira_akuma] 5
#23661216 - 09/20/16 10:17 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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In this thread, qman advocates an unsavory foreign policy so long as it benefits Americans.
In the "rise of the far right" thread, he denies that the West would exploit others for domestic gain.
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qman
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: akira_akuma]
#23661281 - 09/20/16 10:37 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
qman said: If you want the majority of US citizens to get outraged for their government conducting military operations that directly benefit their economic well-being, you're delusional.
you keep putting your authoritarian foot in your mouth, don't you.
it's economic well-being to take from anyone, so does that mean we should just do that? just cause?
there's this thing called morals, and ethics. you're just back-trailing to the hypocritical methods used by your very own sworn enemies, Hilary, and Obama. nice complete backtrack on what you espouse as your so-called "values".
Letting others take potential resources to disadvantage me in life is the ethical position you want me to take? You do realize there has to be a winner and loser in this game, which side do you want to be on?
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qman
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23661288 - 09/20/16 10:41 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Distractions are just a bonus, care to address every single other reason, for which there are explicit monied interests?
Well, going into Iraq provided a shitty return on investment in my opinion. In fact, a negative return.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: qman] 2
#23661290 - 09/20/16 10:42 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Arent you the one who thinks sovereignty is a cornerstone of a functional international society?
Or does that only apply when brown people want to take resources from you (instead of vice versa)?
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qman
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23661296 - 09/20/16 10:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: In this thread, qman advocates an unsavory foreign policy so long as it benefits Americans.
In the "rise of the far right" thread, he denies that the West would exploit others for domestic gain.

"advocates an unsavory foreign policy"
Nope, stop making things up.
"so long as it benefits Americans"
Can't a US foreign policy benefit Americans and NOT be "unsavory" at the same time? Yes.
"he denies that the West would exploit others for domestic gain"
No I don't, I just don't think the West should be flooded with third world leeches if it were to potentially happen.
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qman
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23661309 - 09/20/16 10:52 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Arent you the one who thinks sovereignty is a cornerstone of a functional international society?
Or does that only apply when brown people want to take resources from you (instead of vice versa)?
At the end of the day, national sovereignty is only accomplished by the size of the gun, not a piece of paper.
If I can't defend my property, it's really not mine in the first place. US and EU borders and national sovereignty are defensible, I can't say the same for other nations.
Edited by qman (09/20/16 10:53 AM)
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akira_akuma
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: qman]
#23661315 - 09/20/16 10:57 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Letting others take potential resources to disadvantage me in life is the ethical position you want me to take? You do realize there has to be a winner and loser in this game, which side do you want to be on?
LOL, how arrogant. everyone in the US is competing for resources, it's called capitalism, Jingo.
Quote:
No I don't, I just don't think the West should be flooded with third world leeches if it were to potentially happen.
*abandon all nuance, we have snarl words activated*
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: qman] 3
#23661382 - 09/20/16 11:15 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: In this thread, qman advocates an unsavory foreign policy so long as it benefits Americans.
In the "rise of the far right" thread, he denies that the West would exploit others for domestic gain.

"advocates an unsavory foreign policy"
Nope, stop making things up.
"so long as it benefits Americans"
Can't a US foreign policy benefit Americans and NOT be "unsavory" at the same time? Yes.
"he denies that the West would exploit others for domestic gain"
No I don't, I just don't think the West should be flooded with third world leeches if it were to potentially happen.
Youre caught, dude. If you backtrack any harder you'll rupture an Achilles.
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Arent you the one who thinks sovereignty is a cornerstone of a functional international society?
Or does that only apply when brown people want to take resources from you (instead of vice versa)?
At the end of the day, national sovereignty is only accomplished by the size of the gun, not a piece of paper.
If I can't defend my property, it's really not mine in the first place. US and EU borders and national sovereignty are defensible, I can't say the same for other nations.
So "might makes right."
At least you've finally admitted that morals and ethics and sovereignty have nothing to do with it. Finally.
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Ezuma
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: qman] 3
#23661722 - 09/20/16 01:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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so you admit america is a force of evil in the international scene. Moreover you're seemingly proud of it. I agree, and that is why I can never respect you or anyone like you
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: Ezuma] 3
#23661747 - 09/20/16 01:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ezuma said: so you admit america is a force of evil in the international scene. Moreover you're seemingly proud of it. I agree, and that is why I can never respect you or anyone like you
Don't worry, he'll walk back this admission as soon as it proves convenient.
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qman
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23662385 - 09/20/16 04:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: In this thread, qman advocates an unsavory foreign policy so long as it benefits Americans.
In the "rise of the far right" thread, he denies that the West would exploit others for domestic gain.

"advocates an unsavory foreign policy"
Nope, stop making things up.
"so long as it benefits Americans"
Can't a US foreign policy benefit Americans and NOT be "unsavory" at the same time? Yes.
"he denies that the West would exploit others for domestic gain"
No I don't, I just don't think the West should be flooded with third world leeches if it were to potentially happen.
Youre caught, dude. If you backtrack any harder you'll rupture an Achilles.
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Arent you the one who thinks sovereignty is a cornerstone of a functional international society?
Or does that only apply when brown people want to take resources from you (instead of vice versa)?
At the end of the day, national sovereignty is only accomplished by the size of the gun, not a piece of paper.
If I can't defend my property, it's really not mine in the first place. US and EU borders and national sovereignty are defensible, I can't say the same for other nations.
So "might makes right."
At least you've finally admitted that morals and ethics and sovereignty have nothing to do with it. Finally.
I'm acknowledging that some nations can defend their borders and sovereignty while other nations can't, it's basically stating the obvious.
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qman
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: Ezuma]
#23662425 - 09/20/16 05:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ezuma said: so you admit america is a force of evil in the international scene. Moreover you're seemingly proud of it. I agree, and that is why I can never respect you or anyone like you
"so you admit America is a force of evil in the international scene"
Hmm no, but being the worlds only superpower brings you into a lot of questionable acts and some of those actions are wrong.
The West has brought the third world into the global economy and raised their standards of living by many multiples, that is a fact you don't seem to appreciate.
Are some of these economic relationships mutually beneficial? Yes, but that does NOT mean the US is "exploiting" disadvantaged people.
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akira_akuma
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: qman] 2
#23662466 - 09/20/16 05:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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sure it is, if those people never asked, or were propositioned with "the US benefit" in mind. that's the definition of "exploited".
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qman
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: akira_akuma]
#23662481 - 09/20/16 05:41 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: sure it is, if those people never asked, or were propositioned with "the US benefit" in mind. that's the definition of "exploited".
It's not exploitation when you gladly accept the terms while turning down another options.
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akira_akuma
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: qman]
#23662502 - 09/20/16 05:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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no, there is no such stipulation.
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ballsalsa
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: akira_akuma]
#23663084 - 09/20/16 08:37 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: [in terms of war] yeah, well, Qman wants to put himself on the moral highground, when it simply doesn't make any sense what he's saying. "good guys". no. it's a preference. not reality. in reality, their are no "good guys", just players.
his becoming null and void will lead, incrementally, to better policy; though, let's not get too carried away, as Sir Basil Hart implies...afterall, war isn't about morality, it's about policy. squeeze the snow.
There is very little room on the moral high-ground when it comes to war. The best you can hope for is that the evils perpetrated in war are balanced by some "greater good". Even that is usually more of a justification than a vindication. As you said, there are no "good guys", just players.
the idea is not to squeeze the snow (assuming that you want to end the conflict as quickly and bloodlessly as possible). Better to poke a weak spot in the snowball so that you can separate the bits of snow from each other and they melt much faster.
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akira_akuma
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: ballsalsa]
#23664112 - 09/21/16 04:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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admittedly, i read your response pretty late in the day and i read it pretty haphazardly. i see what he means now...the snow consolidates into that wet hard lump if you squeeze, so melt the snow faster by breaking it up instead. ahhh, got you now.
well, i don't know, honestly, if the Muslims are capable of pulling off, but the US i DO.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: qman] 2
#23664254 - 09/21/16 07:09 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Ezuma said: so you admit america is a force of evil in the international scene. Moreover you're seemingly proud of it. I agree, and that is why I can never respect you or anyone like you
"so you admit America is a force of evil in the international scene"
Hmm no, but being the worlds only superpower brings you into a lot of questionable acts and some of those actions are wrong.
The West has brought the third world into the global economy and raised their standards of living by many multiples, that is a fact you don't seem to appreciate.
Are some of these economic relationships mutually beneficial? Yes, but that does NOT mean the US is "exploiting" disadvantaged people.
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Ezuma said: they (mainstream media) probably won't it's depressing how well maintained american global control is, that most people think of them as 'the good guys' and are terrified of Russia and China invading, and fantastical nonsense like that
If the actions are for US interests and they benefit US citizens, then they are "the good guys".
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: qman] 2
#23664414 - 09/21/16 08:48 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Distractions are just a bonus, care to address every single other reason, for which there are explicit monied interests?
Well, going into Iraq provided a shitty return on investment in my opinion. In fact, a negative return.
That is implying the US taxpayer was the monied interest.
Youre not this naive. At least I dont think you are.
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qman
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23664466 - 09/21/16 09:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Distractions are just a bonus, care to address every single other reason, for which there are explicit monied interests?
Well, going into Iraq provided a shitty return on investment in my opinion. In fact, a negative return.
That is implying the US taxpayer was the monied interest.
Youre not this naive. At least I dont think you are.
Well, we all know how it works, put the bill on the US taxpayers and the potential positive return on investment into Big Oil's pocket.
Big Oil miscalculated, cut their losses and left a long time ago. By the time they had to pay their staff 3 times the normal salary and repair pipelines in the middle of the desert every 3 days, this cheap oil wasn't so cheap anymore.
What is very difficult to quantify is US influence in that region of the world which protects the "Petro Dollar" and its benefit for US citizens.
Policymakers can't directly say "this is for your benefit Joe Six-Pack", but they can say "we are spreading democracy", there's no real way they can say specifically say how this benefits US citizens other than "we are protecting US interests".
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: qman] 3
#23664523 - 09/21/16 09:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thats a good point about the petrodollar, but I think its pretty clear that "protecting our interests" doesnt yield any benefits for the average American, let alone the people dealing with the consequences of what we're doing to protect those interests.
On the petrodollar, though, something I hadnt considered: what happens when renewables take over the energy market? Dollar value will plummet, making me think we'll do whatever we need to make sure oil exporting nations not only continue to sell a lot of oil, but to do so in dollars.
Saddam was gonna do so in Euros. Invasion. Gaddafi was gonna do so in gold. Invasion.
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qman
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23664620 - 09/21/16 10:26 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Thats a good point about the petrodollar, but I think its pretty clear that "protecting our interests" doesnt yield any benefits for the average American, let alone the people dealing with the consequences of what we're doing to protect those interests.
On the petrodollar, though, something I hadnt considered: what happens when renewables take over the energy market? Dollar value will plummet, making me think we'll do whatever we need to make sure oil exporting nations not only continue to sell a lot of oil, but to do so in dollars.
Saddam was gonna do so in Euros. Invasion. Gaddafi was gonna do so in gold. Invasion.
"but I think its pretty clear that 'protecting our interests' doesn't yield any benefits for the average citizen"
I think it's unclear, protecting our interest after WW2 clearly benefited every US citizens, how much does it do it today? It's hard to quantify in my opinion.
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: chopstick] 1
#23666554 - 09/21/16 09:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
chopstick said: It was a desperate move by the Americans to prevent their pet terrorists from suffering a total military defeat.
The US is blatantly supporting Al-Qaeda & the Islamic State in Syria, even now going so far as to provide them with close air support.
ISIS has promised to slaughter & enslave all 300,000 civilians that are surrounded in Deir Ezzor. The USA just killed 100 people that were defending them!
I'm so disgusted by this I wouldn't even know where to begin.
We need to find a way to educate Americans about how their government is supporting terrorism.
The problem is, nobody cares.
In terms of lives thats been lost its a holocaust. Its an industrialized, and systematic eradication of life thats using confusion and terror to turn everyone upon one another, and they use the media with striking effectiveness to cover up what theyre doing. Its like when hitler made mock ups of towns in the concentration camps for the media. Only its the media thats presenting a dialogue that isnt reflective of reality. All the major countries are also doing extensive PR campaigns and flooding the internet with propaganda. Theres entire branchs of governments popping into existence whos only operative is to influence the public and keep them subdued, about the war thats raging, climate change, resource shortages. Its insane.
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nooneman


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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23666644 - 09/21/16 10:37 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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The US is trying to weaken the Syrian government so that after the war with ISIS the Kurds and possibly others have a shot at overthrowing the Syrian government (which is a harsh terrible middle east dictatorship).
Of course, you all know how well overthrowing governments always turns out...
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Ezuma
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#23666756 - 09/21/16 11:12 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said:
Quote:
chopstick said: It was a desperate move by the Americans to prevent their pet terrorists from suffering a total military defeat.
The US is blatantly supporting Al-Qaeda & the Islamic State in Syria, even now going so far as to provide them with close air support.
ISIS has promised to slaughter & enslave all 300,000 civilians that are surrounded in Deir Ezzor. The USA just killed 100 people that were defending them!
I'm so disgusted by this I wouldn't even know where to begin.
We need to find a way to educate Americans about how their government is supporting terrorism.
The problem is, nobody cares.
In terms of lives thats been lost its a holocaust. Its an industrialized, and systematic eradication of life thats using confusion and terror to turn everyone upon one another, and they use the media with striking effectiveness to cover up what theyre doing. Its like when hitler made mock ups of towns in the concentration camps for the media. Only its the media thats presenting a dialogue that isnt reflective of reality. All the major countries are also doing extensive PR campaigns and flooding the internet with propaganda. Theres entire branchs of governments popping into existence whos only operative is to influence the public and keep them subdued, about the war thats raging, climate change, resource shortages. Its insane.
and it works alarmingly well, especially if the only media you consume is american I just don't see how one would avoid believing the lies
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Patlal
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23668782 - 09/22/16 05:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Article
So, this base that "coalition forces" just bombed the shit out of happens to be one of the only Eastern Syrian cities not to be overrun by ISIS. In fact, Deir Ezzor was the most successful military outpost holding off ISIS for over a year.
And we, oops, bombed them.
First off, does anyone really think we accidentally bombed a city thats been a Syrian army position for years? Does anyone really think we convinced Denmark and Australia to make the same accident?
I reeeeaaallllyyyyy dont want this to get moved to the conspiracy sub, but I think its pretty clear that the West is aiding and abetting ISIS in order to destabilize Syria (Iran's last ally).
Thoughts?
Well I mean, as long as it's an accident right?
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: Patlal] 1
#23670859 - 09/23/16 12:07 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Assad tells AP the bombing was intentional, lasted for over an hour.
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Ezuma
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23671370 - 09/23/16 03:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Assad tells AP the bombing was intentional, lasted for over an hour.
I don't believe either Russia or the USA in any of this stuff, or my own country obviously. Suffice to say shit's fucked and it's fucked because the big wigs profit from the fuckery
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: Ezuma]
#23671601 - 09/23/16 04:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm not taking Assad's word for anything, just figured it was relevant to the thread 
But yeah, seems to me the big wigs stand to profit the most from an Assad-less Syria, and taking out a major ISIS roadblock in the East with the excuse of "oops" reeks of horseshit.
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starfire_xes
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#23671834 - 09/23/16 06:18 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Obama loves ISIS.....'he stands with the muslims' to use his own words. And this is what benghazi was about, the obama administration was running guns--specifically shoulder held surface to air missles--to the rebels.
That's why the coverup is so huge.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: starfire_xes] 2
#23671845 - 09/23/16 06:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: Obama loves ISIS.....'he stands with the muslims' to use his own words. And this is what benghazi was about, the obama administration was running guns--specifically shoulder held surface to air missles--to the rebels.
That's why the coverup is so huge.
Honestly wouldnt surprise me. But this isnt happening because of Obama's personal feelings towards Islam. Its happening because those who really have the power want it to be that way.
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demiu5
humans, lol


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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23671932 - 09/23/16 06:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
starfire_xes said: Obama loves ISIS.....'he stands with the muslims' to use his own words. And this is what benghazi was about, the obama administration was running guns--specifically shoulder held surface to air missles--to the rebels.
That's why the coverup is so huge.
Honestly wouldnt surprise me. But this isnt happening because of Obama's personal feelings towards Islam. Its happening because those who really have the power want it to be that way.
wouldn't be the 14th time or anything anyways......
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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starfire_xes
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23671949 - 09/23/16 07:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
starfire_xes said: Obama loves ISIS.....'he stands with the muslims' to use his own words. And this is what benghazi was about, the obama administration was running guns--specifically shoulder held surface to air missles--to the rebels.
That's why the coverup is so huge.
Honestly wouldnt surprise me. But this isnt happening because of Obama's personal feelings towards Islam. Its happening because those who really have the power want it to be that way.
we agree on something...is it once, or twice in a row?
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hostileuniverse
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: starfire_xes]
#23671967 - 09/23/16 07:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Is this where we start discussing the illuminati and the Rothchilds?
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ballsalsa
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: hostileuniverse]
#23672321 - 09/23/16 09:26 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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oh, those crazy redshields
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Tipote
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: ballsalsa]
#23676589 - 09/25/16 12:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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How is the US MSM talking about all these events in Syria lately?
I love how naked qman is in this thread
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: Tipote]
#23676949 - 09/25/16 02:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tipote said: How is the US MSM talking about all these events in Syria lately?
I love how naked qman is in this thread 
They arent.
Luckily, a pipe bomb went off in NYC the same day
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qman
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: Tipote]
#23677633 - 09/25/16 06:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tipote said: How is the US MSM talking about all these events in Syria lately?
I love how naked qman is in this thread 
Do you have a point? I got news for you, most US citizens don't give a shit about what's happening in Syria and the ones that do care probably don't know the full story.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: qman] 1
#23677657 - 09/25/16 07:00 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: the ones that do care probably don't know the full story.
I wonder why...
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hostileuniverse
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: The Ecstatic]
#23678903 - 09/26/16 06:56 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said: the ones that do care probably don't know the full story.
I wonder why...
Becuase they are too lazy to research it on their own and rely on MSM to inform them
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The Ecstatic
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: hostileuniverse] 1
#23679682 - 09/26/16 12:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said: the ones that do care probably don't know the full story.
I wonder why...
Becuase they are too lazy to research it on their own and rely on MSM to inform them
I agree, the media isnt doing their job.
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Bodhi of Ankou
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#23679909 - 09/26/16 01:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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This is the average person. Replace womans suffarage with anything and you'll more or less get the same results.
Its not just the media.
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Ezuma
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Re: US, Australia, Denmark Coordinate "Accidental" Bombing of Syrian Military Stringhold [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#23679984 - 09/26/16 02:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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a mixture of the media, poor education, lazy and entitled citizens and a social and political environment that encourages mindless consumerism and diminishes the potential for rational thought. It all plays together, a less informed and more intuitive 'gut feeling' and 'common sense' driven public serves all political parties really, and is the best thing any major corporation could ask for. Unfortunately it is just about the worst thing for society in general, and makes democracy an utter joke
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