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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution
    #23653379 - 09/17/16 05:12 PM (4 years, 8 days ago)

hello lovely people, I wanted to share some info on preparing a 150ppm chlorine solution that might come in handy. Will of course be kinda obvious to a lot of people, but i hope it helps those saying things like "i dont have access to 150 ppm chlorine solution" If you want to skip the background and get to the tek, scroll down to the red

This solution is often recommended as a treatment for pseudomona problems (bacterial blotch, pit, etc.) and some people even recommend using it for ALL misting:
Quote:

Shroomery Archive on Common Contaminants said:
Bacterial Blotch %u2013 Pseudomonas tolaasii (P. fluorescens)

Yellow to brown lesions form on mushrooms. Typically, spotting occurs at or near the edge of mushroom caps. Blotch occurs when mushrooms remain wet for a period of 4 to 6 hours or longer after water has been applied. The bacterium is spread in air-borne soil particles. Controls include lowering humidity and watering with a 150 ppm chlorine solution (calcium hypochlorite products are used since sodium hypochlorite products may burn caps). If the mushroom stays wet, however, chlorine has little effect since the bacterial population reproduces at a rate that neutralizes the effect of the oxidizing agent. Shiitake caps are affected by a bacterial disease caused by Pseudomonas gladioli (Burkholderia gladioli). Sanitation is a critical component of control measures.




Quote:

TMC says:
Excessive humidity without adequate air movement and evaporation retards
mushroom development. Saturated stagnant air pockets are also breeding areas for contaminants like the Forest Green Mold (Trichoderma) and Bacterial Blotch (Pseudomonas).

Blotch results from mushroom caps that remain wet for extended periods of time. Agaricus
growers attempt to dry recently watered mushroom caps as quickly as possible by lowering the hu.
midity of the room. This is accomplished by increasing air circulation and introducing more fresh air
or by raising the air temperature 1 -2 ° F. Agaricus growers also stop watering once the mushroom
cap has reached adolescence because wet mushroom caps become prime sites for disease. Small
scale growers may be able to water around maturing mushrooms without directly hitting the caps. If
Bacterial Blotch or other diseases appear on the mushrooms or the casing soil, these areas should
not be watered. Watering contaminated regions will spread the infection further. A common strategy
for serious disease outbreaks is to lower the relative humidity and run the casing drier than normal.
Agaricus cultivators also use slightly chlorinated water (150 ppm).

Measures of Control: Use of mildly chlorinated water (150-250 ppm) or water free of high bacteria
counts. This contaminant can easily be prevented by: isolating and properly disposing of infected
fruitbodies; eliminating excessively high humidity levels during cropping (greater than 92%);
and preventing stagnant air pockets through a good air circulation system. Maintaining a sufficient
evaporation rate lessens the likelihood of these bacteria infecting the fruitbodies.





So one of my monotubs had some really crazy looking bacterial blotch and pits, looked like a little gnome went around taking a bite out of each affected cap haha.... it was looking to be a nice MS flush, but the blotch and pits were pretty prominent: many pins had holes in the caps and there were several blotchy spots.


I think this might be the cause: as this tub first started pinning it was COVERED in hyphal knots, but the tub was bone dry, like waaay too dry. I think i over-corrected in the other direction, or at least made the mistake of not substantially upping airflow after misting to ensure no standing water remained. Evidently, i must have allowed it to pool and stagnate, even if it was only slightly, it must have been enough to cause problems. I dont think i used too much water necessarily, i think it didnt evaporate fast enough.

After doing a little reading and trying to decide my best course of action, i immediately removed the polyfill from the top holes and greatly loosened the polyfill on the side holes, and i took my fan off the timer and ran it 24/7 instead.

I really wanted to prevent it from spreading and nip this problem in the bud, so in addition to substantially upping the airflow I decided to try the aforementioned 150 ppm chlorine solution many recommend. I applied the solution twice, and I am quite happy to report that the pseudomonas infestation appears to be entirely cleared up!! probably mainly due to the increased airflow, but the chlorine solution certainly seemed to speed up the blotch/pit recovery a lot. Not a great first flush, but its MS and considering the pseudomonas problems im happy to have a harvest and learn something.

close up of the previously blotchy, pit-ridden caps pictured above:




I couldn't find any direct info on the forum explaining how to make a 150 ppm solution, so after finding out i thought it might be useful info for others like myself who didn't really know how to proceed. Also, bear in mind that this solution WILL NOT HELP if it just sits on the myc/fruits, it needs to evaporate, along with the remaining water, to be effective. I waited until the increased airflow & evaporation from the removed polyfill had completely dried all standing water before i applied the chlorine solution, since it would make the problem worse if it just increases the amount of stagnant water.

(btw, to anyone interested, here is the paper i referenced: CONVERTING HOUSEHOLD BLEACH TO PARTS PER MILLION OF AVAILABLE CHLORINE )

The Tek/Process for Making 150 ppm Chlorine Solution:


What you need:
  • household bleach, pool chlorine, or another substance with a known chlorine availability
  • h2o
  • spray bottle
  • graduated cylinders, syringes, pipettes, or another way to accurately measure fractions of a ml
  • beaker or mixing bowl
  • stir rod with rubber policeman, spatula, or other stirring utensil



the basic calculations involved for making 1l of solution:
Quote:

multiply 1000 ml x 150 ppm = 1000 x (150/1,000,000) = .15 ml chlorine per 1000ml water




ppm amounts are used to designate very, VERY low concentrations, and we must take extra care when dealing with such small quantities, factoring in the + or - tolerance of the glassware/measuring tools used. In this case the worst that could happen is burning your shrooms and turning your clothes white, but many people have died or mutilated their minds and bodies by trying to guess/eyeball measurements of toxic or potent compounds (fentanyl and its analogues, all the research chems being applied to blotter and sold as LSD, to name a few) ; bleach is relatively safe, but understand the principle. be careful friends.

So my household bleach designates the amount of available chlorine right on the label, how handy :smile: but note that while most info on the web, including the paper i referenced for this, states that household bleach has usually 5.25% available chlorine, the bleach i have has a different number, so always pick a bleach that specifies the available chlorine, because apparently it can differ greatly and have a huge impact on ppm solutions



my bleach is 7.86% available chlorine. in other words 1 gallon of this bleach = 0.0786 gallons of chlorine. So to calculate how much of this bleach i need to use to make a 150 ppm chlorine solution:
Quote:

.15 ml chlorine = 1.908 ml of this brand bleach




Trying to measure fractions of a ml with standard equipment is how mistakes get made, whether that is a mushroom being burned by bleach or a fentanyl OD. So here we dilute the bleach to make it easier to measure. For the sake of simplicity:

1. mix 10 ml bleach with 90 ml h20 and ensure the total measures 100 ml as accurately as possible using graduated cylinder(sometimes i use syringes and pipettes as well, but beakers are a no-no because they have high margin for error).

2. after ensuring that this is homogeneous, measure 19.08 ml of this premixture

3. combine 19.08 ml premix with 980.92 ml h20 and mix thoroughly

4. fill spray bottle

Remember, your bleach can and most likely will be different, so look for the available chlorine on the label and substitute that number in for where I used my concentration 

I welcome any additional info, corrections, feedback, etc, especially since i am terrible at math lol... worked well for me and figured i would share for the benefit of others in the same situation


mush love my friends :rockon:


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Edited by c10h12n2o (09/17/16 05:19 PM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23653391 - 09/17/16 05:16 PM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Couldn't you weigh the liquid to get an accurate ml measurement if you don't have equipment to measure ml's down to the .00, providing you have suitable scales. Which is more likely than the lab equipment


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: mrmazdarx9]
    #23653415 - 09/17/16 05:22 PM (4 years, 8 days ago)

no, that is a different type of ratio, what you are referring to would be a weight:volume , this is a volume : volume ratio, it could/would be entirely different

but again, in the steps above we defeat the need to measure hundredths of a ml by diluting in 2 steps, so that we take 19.08 ml rather than trying to take 1.908 ml (which would be much harder to measure accurately)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: mrmazdarx9]
    #23653421 - 09/17/16 05:23 PM (4 years, 8 days ago)

I'd like to see a few more examples of this working.
but it is interesting.

Not to take away from op but i think your poly was waaay to tight.
and i like to duct tape... i did it too!! and got bashed for it :P


...and i looked back at your post.. you acknowledged the poly.. sorry


Edited by mushboy (09/17/16 05:26 PM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o] * 1
    #23653444 - 09/17/16 05:29 PM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Dude, I love your posts:thumbup:
And I am blown away you fought that blotch and won! I grow Plearotus Eryngii, which is one of the most susceptible mushrooms to blotch and I got it bad on a whole run of 20 bags and had to throw them out, I eventually had to clean my whole room, bleach bomb it and start it back up again but I had turned down the RH to 80-85 and set the FAE to constant and never saw it again.
I'm stoked to see another method of fighting this, or at least reviving one. I have never seen it in a tub but I will definitely be paying more attention, oh one more thing to mention, with my eryngii, It always started on a part of the mushroom or pin where a drop or bead of water had been sitting for more than a day.
Awesome job and great write up, will deffinately be using this in the future when I run into this again:super:


Edited by Rooster Cogburn (09/17/16 05:33 PM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: mushboy]
    #23653449 - 09/17/16 05:32 PM (4 years, 8 days ago)

the bottom might have been a little too tight, top polyfill was barely even staying in, when i took it all the way out and cranked up the FAE it dried right up though

there are lots of examples of 150 ppm chlorine solution being used to treat pseudomonas in the academic literature, what specifically would you like to see? seems like pseudomonas is one of the easier contams to deal with, being relatively easy to control if you remove the conditions that led to its gaining a foothold, and the chlorine treatment seemed to speed it up pretty dramatically

but all in all i think correcting the conditions has more to do with it than the solution. you could probably defeat it without the solution by adjusting conditions alone; on the other hand the chlorine solution absolutely COULD NOT clear it up without also fixing the standing/stagnant water problem

haha ive seen lots of hating on duct taping liners, but i still havent seen anyone specify why not ?? seems like a pretty effective way to install a liner into place.. it would be much appreciated if someone could clear that up for me :wink:

EDIT: re: Rooster:

thanks buddy, and right back at ya! :highfive1:

thats great info you added, terrifying stuff!! 20 bags of kings to blotch?? that makes me tear up a little dude... talk about a hard learned lesson :/ I was so worried that it was going to spread to my other tubs in my fruiting room, really wanted to make sure i knocked it out before i increase the cubensis population density in there too terribly high lol

Quote:

It always started on a part of the mushroom or pin where a drop or bead of water had been sitting for more than a day.



:whathesaid: this seems to be the key to preventing pseudomonas, thanks for sharing your experience :smile:


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"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche


Edited by c10h12n2o (09/17/16 05:44 PM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23653465 - 09/17/16 05:37 PM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:

there are lots of examples of 150 ppm chlorine solution being used to treat pseudomonas in the academic literature, what specifically would you like to see?




helps if i use google first right :p
:peterkillself:


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: mushboy]
    #23653573 - 09/17/16 06:19 PM (4 years, 8 days ago)

be VERY careful when googling anything about pseudomonas , seriously you just might loose your lunch

some types infest babies, causing them to literally rot to death and its some of the nastiest, most disturbingly real images you will ever see. cant unsee that kind of stuff.... at least avoid the images tab, or use a negative keyword for babies (searching for "pseudamonas -baby" without the quotes)


like damn girl, wash yo pussy  :evilpuke:


--------------------

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"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche


Edited by c10h12n2o (09/17/16 06:21 PM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23653586 - 09/17/16 06:24 PM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
be VERY careful when googling anything about pseudomonas , seriously you just might loose your lunch

some types infest babies, causing them to literally rot to death and its some of the nastiest, most disturbingly real images you will ever see. cant unsee that kind of stuff.... at least avoid the images tab, or use a negative keyword for babies (searching for "pseudamonas -baby" without the quotes)


like damn girl, wash yo pussy  :evilpuke:



goes right to google image search
:mustnotfap:


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23653603 - 09/17/16 06:32 PM (4 years, 8 days ago)

That was absolutely awful :scat:


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23653614 - 09/17/16 06:38 PM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Thanks man!  My last batch before I started agar had the blotch pretty bad, and that was also when I first became aware of it.  Probably the same reason I started agar too.
Anyway,  I used bacterial spawn too so that surely contributed, but from what I read about the blotch is that most mushrooms have the bacteria that causes it on their caps anyway and the blotch can gain a foothold by too much humidity or watering.  I was over-misting and making it worse.  It spreads fast!

If I get it again I will definitely try this.  Hopefully I don't though and now that I'm using agar my spawn looks and smells great!


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23653704 - 09/17/16 07:15 PM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
no, that is a different type of ratio, what you are referring to would be a weight:volume , this is a volume : volume ratio, it could/would be entirely different



I would imagine 1ml of your bleach is near enough to 1gram. The solution called for in TMC was 150-250ppm so no need to be overly worried, and your bleach will be degrading anyway so what is on the bottle will not be overly accurate.


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: blackout]
    #23654137 - 09/17/16 11:11 PM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
no, that is a different type of ratio, what you are referring to would be a weight:volume , this is a volume : volume ratio, it could/would be entirely different



I would imagine 1ml of your bleach is near enough to 1gram. The solution called for in TMC was 150-250ppm so no need to be overly worried, and your bleach will be degrading anyway so what is on the bottle will not be overly accurate.




that would be incorrect. a solution might have the same specific gravity as water (meaning 1g = 1ml), but that does not mean that all solutions will have the same specific gravity as water. people make this mistake in the cannabis concentrate industry CONSTANTLY, and some people refuse to learn lol...

a gram is standardized as the weight of 1 ml h20, which is equivalent to one cubic cm (hence "cc" being interchangable for ml). that is why water has a specific gravity of 1. other solutions, having more dissolved mass or heavier constituents, can have quite different specific gravities. this is why oil floats on water, and syrup sinks, etc.

its really easy to make these mistakes, mass and volume are quite different things: higher density leads to more mass within the same volume

I have personally have known 2 people who died from making mistakes in weight vs volume calculations, including someone who was probably the smartest, most inspiring person i have ever met. pretty fuckin sad actually :frown: even the smartest people in the world can make careless errors, and when we are talking about micrograms of fentanyl or a ppm solution those careless mistakes can have a huge (even deadly) impact

i just measured for the sake of the conversation, and the bleach solution i have weighs 1.26 grams per ml, which represents a specific gravity substantially higher than water. Even water can have a different specific gravity at different temperatures and different dissolved solid contents, etc., so its really never safe to assume that mass = volume, even with water


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23654229 - 09/17/16 11:54 PM (4 years, 8 days ago)

makes sense to me.  but in this particular context it would seem blackout has a point.  No one here is gonna measure chlorine so accurately so how about trying to find and average. 
How does one drop of (standard Clorox at a store) to 1000 ml of water sound?


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Kenetic]
    #23654523 - 09/18/16 01:46 AM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

kenetic said:
makes sense to me.  but in this particular context it would seem blackout has a point.  No one here is gonna measure chlorine so accurately so how about trying to find and average.




i think you are confused about something. blackout brought up several good points, including pointing out that TMC recommends a range, but he was a little confused about the specific gravity of water vs bleach (which is a common mistake, especially when discussing volume-volume vs weight-volume, its very easy to mix up; especially since the whole system is based on water, and shortcuts that work for h2o dont work for substances with a different specific gravity)

there are no super accurate measurements required in the procedure i outlined, what are you referring to? it lists the amount of available chlorine right on the bleach label, couldnt get any easier than that.

using a 1:10 premix makes it dead simple to measure the required amount, since its much easier to measure 19.06 ml than 1.906 ml, and gives us a MUCH wider margin for error, so it wont be too drastically off one way or another if our measurements are less than precise. On the other hand, without using a 1:10 premix and trying to measure 1.906 ml, being off by a fraction of a ml would be WAY outside of our range. this greatly reduces the harm of being slightly off


Quote:

kenetic said:How does one drop of (standard Clorox at a store) to 1000 ml of water sound?




sounds terribly inaccurate, definitely not a good way to make a 150 ppm solution. you MUST know the available chlorine to be able to calculate the amount needed for a ppm solution; fortunately, it is usually printed right on the bottle, beside the active ingredient. (FYI 5.7% for standard Clorox, but the point is check the label)

a mixture like you describe might be effective, might not, might be too much bleach, might not: point is, you cant be certain without knowing the available chlorine of the bleach used and the exact amount used (which is why we make the 1:10 premix, for easy measuring). Why not just do it correctly/accurately? Its not any more difficult, and you can reduce the number of factors that might have gone wrong in the event of a problem

also, 150-250 ppm might sound like a big range (like 150-250 lbs), but it is not. The difference in a 150ppm solution and a 500 ppm solution could be smaller than a grain of salt (depending on volume). Any time you are talking about ppm, it is an EXTREMELY low concentration, so special care needs to be taken when working in such minute increments

weight and volume are two different things: when you are working with ppm by volume, you need to use volumetric measurements


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Edited by c10h12n2o (09/18/16 01:49 AM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23654617 - 09/18/16 02:55 AM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Damn I bet it took you a long time to write all that....

btw I know what ppm is, I used to wash dishes at mcdonalds. 

If I ever get the blotch again I'll be sure to try your method.  I really hope I don't need it. 

Interesting write up, thanks.


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23654620 - 09/18/16 02:57 AM (4 years, 8 days ago)

:asianofapproval:


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Kenetic]
    #23654665 - 09/18/16 03:27 AM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

kenetic said:
btw I know what ppm is, I used to wash dishes at mcdonalds.




:lol:  Can't tell if this is a joke or not.


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Inocuole]
    #23654706 - 09/18/16 04:04 AM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

kenetic said:
Damn I bet it took you a long time to write all that....

btw I know what ppm is, I used to wash dishes at mcdonalds. 

If I ever get the blotch again I'll be sure to try your method.  I really hope I don't need it. 

Interesting write up, thanks.




lol nah, the power went out, had to wait for it to come back on so it took me a bit to respond.

I wish i could take credit for the method, but it has been around for quite a while. TMC mentions it (quoted above), and there are dozens of threads where people recommend 150 ppm chlorine solution for pseudomonas (some people recommend using it for ALL watering), I just couldnt find anything on the site about how to actually create such a solution, so i shared a technique once i sorted it out.

As ubiquitous as china white and fake pharms containing fentanyl have become, I really think proper volumetric measuring techniques should be taught as a matter of harm reduction, so maybe a dozen people wouldnt drop dead every time someone gets a pure shipment from china and thinks their .01 g scale is adequate way to measure doses

Quote:

Inocuole said:
Quote:

kenetic said:
btw I know what ppm is, I used to wash dishes at mcdonalds.




:lol:  Can't tell if this is a joke or not.




i know right, third time ive felt that way in this thread. i laughed out loud this time though :rofl:

after a little googling, i think i found what led him to say that. it looks like dishwashers at mcdonalds use test kits which identify ppm concentrations of something at some point in the process

Quote:

Machines using a quaternary ammonium solution must rinse at a minimum of 75 degrees F, and the solution must be at a minimum of 150 ppm and a maximum of 400 ppm




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Edited by c10h12n2o (08/28/20 09:02 PM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23654888 - 09/18/16 08:49 AM (4 years, 8 days ago)

every food service job I ever had we had to test the sanitizer water.  I don't even think u can pass a health inspection if u don't have test strips if ur brick and mortar store.

cool thread mang!  some mornings my tap water smells like a light bleach solution:sad:


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23655258 - 09/18/16 12:39 PM (4 years, 8 days ago)

but he was a little confused about the specific gravity of water vs bleach (which is a common mistake, especially when discussing volume-volume vs weight-volume, its very easy to mix up;



I was not confused at all, I think maybe you were. I was not saying they have the same specific gravity but guessed it would be similar enough so as not to matter in what you are doing, making a dilute bleach solution.

I weighed 10ml of water a syringe there, scale showed 9.4g, 10ml of 5% labelled bleach was 9.7g on the same scale & syringe (this was thick bleach I had no thin on hand). Close enough for me to use interchangeably for making dilute bleach solutions. We are not weighing out diamonds or LSD, its not like the guys who came up with 150ppm found 149ppm was no good. And again you are just guessing how much bleach is still in your bottle as its degrading all the time.


Quote:

a gram is standardized as the weight of 1 ml h20


this is only under certain circumstances, but many people do think its close enough to use fact that 1gram of water around room temperature is approx 1ml. At boiling point some will decide to take account of the change in specific gravity, many still do not bother.

Quote:

the bleach solution i have weighs 1.26 grams per ml,


That is much higher than I would have guessed, does it have thickeners? how did you go about weighing it? did you weigh water at the same temperature to verfiy? I knew there would be inaccuracies in my syringe and scale, that is why I made sure to weight some water to compare "10ml" of water did not display 10g on my scale as I expected. Still would not be enough for me to worry about for making dilute bleach.


Edited by blackout (09/18/16 12:47 PM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: blindingleaf]
    #23656183 - 09/18/16 06:13 PM (4 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
every food service job I ever had we had to test the sanitizer water.  I don't even think u can pass a health inspection if u don't have test strips if ur brick and mortar store.

cool thread mang!  some mornings my tap water smells like a light bleach solution:sad:




much obliged my friend :smile: thanks for clearing that up!

oh goodness, ive seen that happen, i have a friend who lives near a bunch of coal mines and on some days they can light their tap water on fire with a lighter!!! no shit, its pretty scary that they drink that stuff... methane maybe? i know there are spots where methane bubbles out of the creeks nearby. between methane, chlorine, fluoride, lead, and tons of other stuff, tap water composition can vary greatly between locations/sources


Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
but he was a little confused about the specific gravity of water vs bleach (which is a common mistake, especially when discussing volume-volume vs weight-volume, its very easy to mix up;




Quote:

blackout said:
I was not confused at all, I think maybe you were. I was not saying they have the same specific gravity but guessed it would be similar enough so as not to matter in what you are doing, making a dilute bleach solution.

I weighed 10ml of water a syringe there, scale showed 9.4g, 10ml of 5% labelled bleach was 9.7g on the same scale & syringe (this was thick bleach I had no thin on hand). Close enough for me to use interchangeably for making dilute bleach solutions. We are not weighing out diamonds or LSD, its not like the guys who came up with 150ppm found 149ppm was no good. And again you are just guessing how much bleach is still in your bottle as its degrading all the time.




please be specific/clear for the sake of anyone reading, what was i confused about? i would love to learn something, but saying "I would imagine 1ml of your bleach is near enough to 1gram" sounds like the definition of being confused about the specific gravity of water vs bleach (or weight-volume vs volume-volume calculations, or both). please clarify if i am misunderstanding something

the point is this: distilled h2o at room temp has a specific gravity of 1, but different brands of bleach will have a different specific gravity based on the amount of thickeners, dissolved solids, etc., as you yourself mentioned, tested, and observed

you are talking about making a "dilute bleach solution", which is a lot less specific than what this tek is about. this is how to calculate and make a 150 ppm chlorine solution, not a "dilute bleach solution." All eagles are birds, but not all birds are eagles. make sense?

no one said a 149 ppm solution wouldnt kill pseudomonas, i just wanted to make sure people had the info at hand to make the calculations for making a 150 ppm solution based on the available chlorine of their particular sodium hypochlorite product. why would we guess about specific gravity when the correct volume is so easily obtainable, especially in a ppm solution?

if you are talking about making a ppm solution, it is absolutely bad advice to cut corners or make any assumptions about the measurements, specific gravity, etc., and misunderstanding how to calculate weight-volume vs volume-volume solutions is a fast track to inaccuracy, which has no place in calculating ppm solutions. that might be sufficient for making a "dilute bleach solution" but it is an entirely insufficient way to calculate parts per million

more mass within a specific volume = higher specific gravity

if you do it the right way (calculating based on the sample at hand, not assumptions), it works every time, you dont have to try to find "thin" or "thick" bleach as you describe

the bleach is a liquid and the final ppm solution is aqueous, so volume (not weight) is the probably the best way to calculate this solution. weight and volume are not interchangeable, that is the point, something i would hope we can all agree on.

you could technically calculate it either way (by weight or by volume) but you have to be consistent with the units and type of measurements you use (not mixing up weight-volume and weight-weight and volume-volume), and making assumptions about the specific gravity of a substance (x volume = y weight) is the wrong way to do any of those


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23656233 - 09/18/16 06:33 PM (4 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

I weighed 10ml of water a syringe there, scale showed 9.4g, 10ml of 5% labelled bleach was 9.7g on the same scale & syringe




worry about calibrating your scale first buddy.


want to talk about chlorine smelling water, Milwaukee routinely tests above 2ppm out of the tap.

even though the reports I've asked for always say its 1.2-2ppm


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23656795 - 09/18/16 09:42 PM (4 years, 7 days ago)

lol there he is, i knew bodhi was still out there haha... still kinda throwin up in my mouth a bit from that fapping comment about the pseudomonas on babies, that was some sick shit bro lmao... talk about "desensitized by hardcore/violent porn" hahaha

Quote:

Trusted cuItivator said:
Quote:

I weighed 10ml of water a syringe there, scale showed 9.4g, 10ml of 5% labelled bleach was 9.7g on the same scale & syringe




worry about calibrating your scale first buddy.



excellent point, slipped right by me, thanks for bringing that up. As bodhi points out, 10 ml h2o should be very close to 10g (with the only differences being dissolved solids and other adulterants, and atmospheric conditions (temp, pressure, etc), and we are talking a very minor difference, otherwise either the method of measuring volume was off, the method of measuring weight (scale) was off, or both. 

Quote:

Trusted cuItivator said:
want to talk about chlorine smelling water, Milwaukee routinely tests above 2ppm out of the tap.

even though the reports I've asked for always say its 1.2-2ppm




damn bro for real? seems like if you could smell it it would have to be substantially greater than 2 ppm , unless you been hanging out in water storage tanks smelling the offgasing from a few thousand gallons... do you take any special precautions for that, either personally or for your projects? i mainly use purified water for everything, since i have city water and god knows whats in it

apparently
Quote:

The EPA requires treated tap water to have a detectable level of chlorine to help prevent contamination. The allowable chlorine levels in drinking water (up to 4 parts per million) pose “no known or expected health risk [including] an adequate margin of safety.”




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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23656908 - 09/18/16 10:19 PM (4 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
10 ml h2o should be very close to 10g



this is why I asked if you weighed water with your own method of determining the specific gravity of your bleach -your result seemed high to me, and checking bleaches that do quote SG it does indeed seem overly high, I expect my scales to be more accurate than my syringe, which is why I made sure to test both. This is also why I was careful and 10ml in quotes and said my scale "displayed" a value, pre-empting, which turns out I was right to do but it was still was seemingly not recognised why I did so.
Quote:


"10ml" of water did not display 10g on my scale as I expected




Maybe it has additives which we would not want. What brand is your bleach? It does not state on the bottle if it is % by volume or weight. Looking up data sheets it seems chlorox do it by weight, as do others. Seems the higher % ones are more likely to be done by weight.

https://www.ultrapurewater.com/articles/cooling_water/can-bleach-degradation-in-sodium-hypochlorite-storage-tanks-be-controlled

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiK1MrUrJrPAhXGCcAKHYnHCa0QFgg_MAY&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rjschinner.com%2Fblog%2Ftrainingaides%2FJanSan%2FDilutionCalculatorCloroxGermicidalBleach.xlsx&usg=AFQjCNGCqZoUkvkWkqzo_0-lcprWozHFmA&sig2=KugBLshT_7-Nd5xc5U-WPA


Edited by blackout (09/18/16 10:33 PM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: blackout]
    #23656938 - 09/18/16 10:30 PM (4 years, 7 days ago)

If it's a % both units have to match. So if it's 3% bleach that means by volume if it's filled by volume. Or weight of its filled by weight.

the unit "%" is sometimes incorrectly used to denote mass concentration, also called "mass/volume percentage." A solution with 1 g of solute dissolved in a final volume of 100 mL of solution would be labeled as "1%" or "1% m/v" (mass/volume). The notation is mathematically flawed because the unit "%" can only be used for dimensionless quantities. "Percent solution" or "percentage solution" are thus terms best reserved for "mass percent solutions" (m/m = m% = mass solute/mass total solution after mixing), or "volume percent solutions" (v/v = v% = volume solute per volume of total solution after mixing). The very ambiguous terms "percent solution" and "percentage solutions" with no other qualifiers, continue to occasionally be encountered.


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #23657533 - 09/19/16 03:04 AM (4 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
10 ml h2o should be very close to 10g



this is why I asked if you weighed water with your own method of determining the specific gravity of your bleach -your result seemed high to me, and checking bleaches that do quote SG it does indeed seem overly high, I expect my scales to be more accurate than my syringe, which is why I made sure to test both. This is also why I was careful and 10ml in quotes and said my scale "displayed" a value, pre-empting, which turns out I was right to do but it was still was seemingly not recognized why I did so.




you are very confused buddy, more than i thought. yes, i weighed water (btw i use a triple beam lab balance and calibrated digital lab scale, which i check against each other), and as it should be 1ml = 1g, 10 ml = 10g, and so on.

and you say "your own method of determining specific gravity," when my entire point is that in a volume-volume solution, the specific gravity is irrelevant. in no part of the process i outline does one determine the specific gravity of bleach.

the only reason i brought up the fact that different products/brands will have different specific gravities is because you incorrectly suggested that 1g=1ml, and that weight measurements could be substituted for precise volume measurements, which is terrible advice (especially in this context) and needed to be corrected for the sake of clarity/accuracy

Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:


"10ml" of water did not display 10g on my scale as I expected




Maybe it has additives which we would not want. What brand is your bleach? It does not state on the bottle if it is % by volume or weight. Looking up data sheets it seems chlorox do it by weight, as do others. Seems the higher % ones are more likely to be done by weight.

https://www.ultrapurewater.com/articles/cooling_water/can-bleach-degradation-in-sodium-hypochlorite-storage-tanks-be-controlled

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiK1MrUrJrPAhXGCcAKHYnHCa0QFgg_MAY&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rjschinner.com%2Fblog%2Ftrainingaides%2FJanSan%2FDilutionCalculatorCloroxGermicidalBleach.xlsx&usg=AFQjCNGCqZoUkvkWkqzo_0-lcprWozHFmA&sig2=KugBLshT_7-Nd5xc5U-WPA




my bleach brand? Smart Sense concentrated bleach. but that is completely beside the point. the process outlined in OP works regardless of your brand of bleach, regardless of the specific gravity a particular brand of bleach happens to have.

clorox, and every other bleach product that i have ever bought is sold and labeled based on volume (usually by the gallon), and the percentages of the active ingredients and available chlorine are also by volume.

it sounds like you are really confused (or misinformed) about how to interpret data sheets, ppm concentrations, weigh-weight vs weight-volume vs volume-volume solutions, and the concept of specific gravity (i think you can clear up the confusion by reading bodhi's post below, if mine arent making sense to you)

dont get mad/offended or take it personal, i really think you will agree if you take a step back and look at what we are talking about, we just need to be clear for the benefit of readers

i really dont think there is an argument here

Quote:

Trusted cuItivator said:
If it's a % both units have to match. So if it's 3% bleach that means by volume if it's filled by volume. Or weight of its filled by weight.

the unit "%" is sometimes incorrectly used to denote mass concentration, also called "mass/volume percentage." A solution with 1 g of solute dissolved in a final volume of 100 mL of solution would be labeled as "1%" or "1% m/v" (mass/volume). The notation is mathematically flawed because the unit "%" can only be used for dimensionless quantities. "Percent solution" or "percentage solution" are thus terms best reserved for "mass percent solutions" (m/m = m% = mass solute/mass total solution after mixing), or "volume percent solutions" (v/v = v% = volume solute per volume of total solution after mixing). The very ambiguous terms "percent solution" and "percentage solutions" with no other qualifiers, continue to occasionally be encountered.




thanks for sharing bodhi, i was hoping someone who knows more about math and lab technique than i do would drop in to explain better than i could. im really ignorant about math, and have a lot left to learn about everything

succinctly put, very helpful. +5 :mushroom2: for another great explanation :rockon: Ive found myself +1'ing several of your posts lately and just realized i hadnt rated you

its really easy to make mistakes with weight and volume calculations, especially since it is so common for people to talk about "percent solutions" (or "ppm solutions" for that matter) without qualifiers, as you said. like i mentioned before, ive personally known 2 people who have DIED from making careless mistakes with measuring microgram doses and making ppm solutions. both were intelligent guys, one flat-out brilliant, and i miss the hell out of him :frown: even smart people make careless mistakes and act on bad info, which underscores the need for clear, accurate info

obviously we arent dealing with fentanyl here, and burnt shrooms arent going to kill anyone, but the same principles apply, and the same 2 stage dilution process is useful

i think the discussion in this thread is a great illustration how easy it is to make these kinds of mistakes


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23658699 - 09/19/16 02:53 PM (4 years, 7 days ago)

my old boss though 1% was 1ppm
:facepalm:
even harder to deal with than BO :lol:

I tried to explain that if you're talking about PPM then 1,000,000 is 100% so that means 100,000PPM is 10% and 10,000PPM is 1%

the whole reason being that PPM is great for talking about things less than 1%

I even sketched it out on paper as a bar graph representation. no avail.


maths is hard.

he ended up buying a 10kg pail of hop oil once to make a beer just a little more bitter after it had already been brewed. I needed less than 100mL for 3,720 gallons of ready to go beer. good job you just threw wasted 900$


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23658966 - 09/19/16 04:21 PM (4 years, 6 days ago)

:doh:


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23659469 - 09/19/16 07:27 PM (4 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
my old boss though 1% was 1ppm
:facepalm:
even harder to deal with than BO :lol:

I tried to explain that if you're talking about PPM then 1,000,000 is 100% so that means 100,000PPM is 10% and 10,000PPM is 1%

the whole reason being that PPM is great for talking about things less than 1%

I even sketched it out on paper as a bar graph representation. no avail.


maths is hard.

he ended up buying a 10kg pail of hop oil once to make a beer just a little more bitter after it had already been brewed. I needed less than 100mL for 3,720 gallons of ready to go beer. good job you just threw wasted 900$




good god man, i guess be glad he was your boss and not your anesthesiologist or pharmacist lol.... or the guy with the pill press making fake pharmaceuticals out of fentanyl analogues :/ fuckin scary world we live in

lol that is actually an excellent explanation of ppm vs percent: you could really think of parts per million vs parts per cent (hundred)

though of course, first we have to define "parts," and our units have to be consistent throughout. as bodhi stated before, ppm and percent solutions are uselessly ambiguous if they are not qualified as either by volume or by weight (or both in really bad instructions)

hahaha what a waste!! 3700 gallons!!!??? wow if he wasnt the boss i bet his ass woulda been toast, he shoulda let you handle the measurements. I ALWAYS second-guess myself, especially about important stuff, so i always try to get someone smarter than me to check my math (my accountant). With drugs, i look up and check the dosages and effects and contraindications every time, regardless of how many times ive done it. it is so easy to make careless mistakes, even for smart people. Im terrible at math



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Edited by c10h12n2o (08/28/20 09:10 PM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23659482 - 09/19/16 07:35 PM (4 years, 6 days ago)

no it was 30% isohumulone that we wasted. it came in basically a 5 gal bucket

( isohumulone the bitter taste from hops that makes beer taste bitter )

so 1ppm isohumulone in water or beer = 1 IBU. beer's max solubility happens to be roughly 100ppm isohumulone depending on the beer. but anyone advertising a beer > 100 IBU is bullshit because 100 IBU is 100% as bitter as beer can get. unless your read homebrew books and get all sorts of dumb information in your head. like that bullshit Tinseth IBU calculator that's responsible for half of all craft breweries giving dumbass IBU numbers on their beers

so for 3720g(14,000,000mL) to be raised up 2 IBU you would need 28mL of 100% isohumulone. it's only 30% so you need ~93mL of the 30% solution he bought like 5-6 gallons worth of.


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23661768 - 09/20/16 03:30 PM (4 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:you are very confused buddy, more than i thought.



the only thing confusing me is that you still seem to be missing my point...

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:and you say "your own method of determining specific gravity," when my entire point is that in a volume-volume solution, the specific gravity is irrelevant. in no part of the process i outline does one determine the specific gravity of bleach.



I was referring to the value you got for your bleach, not your original post, it seemed overly high.

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:you incorrectly suggested that 1g=1ml



I said
Quote:

I would imagine 1ml of your bleach is near enough to 1gram. The solution called for in TMC was 150-250ppm so no need to be overly worried, and your bleach will be degrading anyway so what is on the bottle will not be overly accurate.



If you really think "near enough" means the same as "exactly equal to" then you are certainly confused about the English language. I knew it would not be the exact same specific gravity as water, I brew beer and distill and have hydrometers for both, I am well aware of what it is. I guessed it would be good enough for most people who want to aim for the TMC range for sanitizing. The poster I was really replying to was the one asking if a scales is adequate, and it certainly is as we certainly do not need to exact. At least kinetic (and I hope others) understood my point even if it went over your head.


Quote:

my bleach brand? Smart Sense concentrated bleach. but that is completely beside the point.



I wanted to see if the data sheet was out there, to see if the specific gravity matched what you found, and to see if it was by weight or volume. Or if there were additives which made it so high.

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:clorox, and every other bleach product that i have ever bought is sold and labeled based on volume (usually by the gallon), and the percentages of the active ingredients and available chlorine are also by volume.



I don't recall seeing volume or weight indicated on any bleach I got. Here is a data sheet for clorox
https://www.thecloroxcompany.com/wp-content/downloads/bleach/cloroxregular-bleach12015-06-12.pdf
it states it has 5-10% sodium hypochlorite by weight. and says " The exact percentage (concentration) of composition has been withheld as a trade secret.", bringing my back to my point that you have no idea how much is in your bleach, as it is both degrading and some are not even declaring it anyway accurately. Its like getting a vernier calipers out to etch a line perfectly midway on a log, then sticking on a blindfold and taking an axe to it, when all you want is a bit of firewood anyway.

There are plenty of sites suggesting some bleach is sold with the % being weight.

http://www.handymath.com/cgi-bin/chlorined2.cgi?submit=Entry

Quote:

Common household bleach solution is typically 5.25% by weight sodium hypochlorite.




https://www.ultrapurewater.com/articles/cooling_water/can-bleach-degradation-in-sodium-hypochlorite-storage-tanks-be-controlled
Quote:

Sodium hypochlorite solutions ranging from 3% to 8.25% NaOCl by weight are sold as common household bleach. Recently, Clorox increased its standard bleach from 5.5% to 8.25% NaOCl by weight.





and a clorox data sheet listed as "Concentration 8.25%"
https://www.gcnorris.com/myfiles/downloads/concentrated%20bleach%20brochure%20js%20fs.pdf

Quote:


*Degrades with age and exposure to sunlight and heat. Check the level of available chlorine with a test kit.
^This product is an 8.25% sodium hypochlorite solution containing approximately 7.85% available chlorine by weight.
The available chlorine levels in the chart above were based on 7.85% available chlorine.




Yours was 8.25% and 7.86% available chlorine.


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: blackout]
    #23662015 - 09/20/16 04:43 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

i will tell you like my grandpa told me: "you open your mouth and you remove all doubt" :rofl:

missing your point? you haven't made a point, or clearly stated any argument. i really think you should dial back the animosity a bit, and think

"near enough" is not the correct way to calculate anything, especially not a ppm solution, please dont spread misinformation

the fact that you would think the specific gravity of my bleach sounds "overly high" underscores how many assumptions you are making, since nothing but being confused about specific gravity could lead you to make such a speculative assumption

you keep talking about specific gravities (though you seem to have a poor grasp of the concept), but specific gravity is completely irrelevant to calculating a ppm solution by volume

the process outlined in this thread tells people how to calculate and create a ppm solution by volume safely, and it works REGARDLESS of the specific gravity, type/brand of chlorine source, or the "additives" you keep speculating about. "thickness," "brand," and specific gravity are completely irrelevant if you do it correctly

bleach is usually sold by volume, if you cant figure that out from your gallon of bleach, its going to be damn hard for you to interpret data sheets

i really dont think there is an argument here. if there is, please state it clearly. nitpicking unrelated concepts out of context isnt really making a point. A solution can be made by weight, and measured by volume, or made by volume and measured by weight, but the units have to match up (cant substitute weight for volume). We are talking about 2 (maybe three if you count W-V) different ways to measure something, they are not mutually exclusive, it doesnt have to be one or the other. but in doing the calculations, the units absolutely have to be consistent . so a solution could be created by weight, and measured, labeled, and sold by volume

you are more than welcome to substitute weight for volume, use "near enough" assumptions about measurements, and guesstimate all you want for your projects, no one is stopping you. but that is absolutely horrible advice for anyone trying to make a ppm solution


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Edited by c10h12n2o (09/20/16 04:53 PM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23662036 - 09/20/16 04:52 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

I see you updated your OP. 

Can you just elaborate on this point:

my bleach is 7.86% available chlorine. in other words 1 gallon of this bleach = 0.0786 gallons of chlorine. So to calculate how much of this bleach i need to use to make a 150 ppm chlorine solution:

.15 ml chlorine = 1.908 ml of this brand bleach


Sorry, I'm terrible at math and was wondering if you explain it.


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Kenetic]
    #23662068 - 09/20/16 05:01 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

Just finished reading this. WOW. Not really sure what I just read lol :facepalm:


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Kenetic]
    #23662076 - 09/20/16 05:03 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

for sure buddy

luckily, your bleach has the exact same numbers as mine, so that makes things simple :laugh:

you are spot on with your math, assuming you are calculating for 1000ml, 1.908 ml of 7.86% available chlorine bleach

since its damn hard to measure that small, and at that concentration being off a little will throw it WAY outta whack, the next step is to dilute 10 ml bleach in 90 ml h2o, and make sure its evenly mixed. then measure 19.08 ml of your pre-mix (which is equivalent to 1.908 ml undiluted), and add 980.92 ml of h2o

make sense? i suck at math as well, but i trust bodhi will bust my ass if i say something stupid lol

Quote:

JacobStorm said:
Just finished reading this. WOW. Not really sure what I just read lol :facepalm:




did you have a question about anything? we are just talking about how to make a 150 ppm chlorine solution, which is often recommended to treat pseudomonas (worked great for me), i just wanted to document the process in case anyone else wanted to know how to do the same


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Edited by c10h12n2o (09/20/16 05:05 PM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23662105 - 09/20/16 05:19 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

Ok.  So far so good.

So what method or tool can I use to measure 19.08 ml of the diluted solution?  Or 980.92 ml of the water I need to add to the solution?  Or can I safely use roughly 19 ml of dilute and mix with roughly 981 ml of water?

I just have a couple 10cc syringes and standard cookware, and neither is hardly accurate enough to divide ml.  Any ideas?

Also, is there any way to test it with a strip or something?


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Kenetic]
    #23662181 - 09/20/16 05:44 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

7.86% v/v
Think of your bleach as
78600ppm

Say you want to make one gal of 150ppm solution

C1V1=C2V2

(78600)(?)=(150ppm)(1gal or 3785mL)
78600x=567750
X=7.25mL give or take.

Take 3785-7.25mL water and then add the 7.25mL concentrate to make a final volume of 3785mL 150ppm


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Kenetic]
    #23662194 - 09/20/16 05:49 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

you should be golden.

i recommend using either a graduated cylinder or pipette like the ones here:


but a syringe should work fine, as long as you are using a pre-mix (2 stage dilution). if you have a small syringe use that, but if you only have 10cc, pull 10 ml, then pull another 9.08 (just slightly under the .1 line). fortunately, using a pre-mix increases our margin for error by 10x, so the difference between .1 and .08 is only a couple thousandths (rather than hundredths)

for measuring the water, i use a larger graduated cylinder, but a measuring cup or beaker would be fine. Or you could buy 1 liter of water, then use your 10cc syringe to draw out 19.08ml of water from it, and replace with 19.08 ml premix

im glad you brought up test kits, i hadnt thought to check! looks like there are strips that measure chlorine ppm , i just ordered some from amazon

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/15-chlorine-test-paper-dispenser-10-200ppm/373CM240.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping&gclid=Cj0KEQjwvIO_BRDt27qG3YX0w4wBEiQAsGu3eWoPleIiHzxNrJoOh_7pxhNE0xkv708nHHYcGsfhGGkaAlM-8P8HAQ

https://www.amazon.com/Industrial-Test-Systems-WaterWorks-480024/dp/B00DIJ0IY8/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1474407387&sr=8-5&keywords=chlorine+ppm+test

https://www.amazon.com/Hydrion-Cm-240-Chlorine-Dispenser-10-200/dp/B00513TNHM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474407387&sr=8-1&keywords=chlorine+ppm+test

but as long as you follow the instructions, you should be very close, if not within the effective range. I still cant believe how effective it was in clearing up my pseudomonas problem (though the increased airflow was also essential, since the solution has to evaporate to be effective


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23662200 - 09/20/16 05:51 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

Say you want to make 1000ml

78600ppm(7.86%) * x = 150ppm * 1000

X= 1.908..mL

Ok its hard to measure that. So take one spoon of bleach and 9 spoons of water. Spoon can be any small volume like a shot glass.

So that's a 10% solution you need 19.08ml or 19ml and then dump that in a spray bottle and fill to the 1L line.

You'll be within 140-160ppm with the slight inaccuracies in measurement


Basically what c10 said. But with the math display a hair different so whatever clicks best in your head


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23662398 - 09/20/16 07:01 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

Excellent, thank you all


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Kenetic]
    #23662447 - 09/20/16 07:21 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

thats about as clear and concise as it could get, good job bodhi, thanks for explaining the math :highfive1:

@kenetic, are you currently trying to treat a pseudomonas outbreak? or are you just making sure you understand correctly for when you need it? if so id be curious to hear about the details of the situation (what corrective actions have been taken so far, pics, etc.)

there are a bunch of people on here who recommend using 150 ppm chlorine solution for ALL watering/misting. Does anyone have any experience with that, or any notes on the subject? seems like lots of commercial farms do it, but i have no clue


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23662463 - 09/20/16 07:33 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

if I were going to do everyday misting with chlorine I might try using 15ppm first. if 150ppm is for an actual sighting of pesudo.

15ppm is roughly 10x more ppm available chlorine than most cities tap water

amazon has lots of cheap options
search
serological pipette
there's all sorts of useful things there


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23662534 - 09/20/16 08:01 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

Well I recently became aware of the disease when my last batch was infected by it, and it seems to be fairly common so I am open to ways to deal with it should I encounter it again.


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Kenetic]
    #23662567 - 09/20/16 08:16 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

I dont wanna put words in blackouts mouth but I think his point was 150-250ppm isnt an exact number, not that you shouldn't be meticulous when working with numbers in ppm/very small numbers.

and I have to say I agree with him :shrug:


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: spacechildo]
    #23662639 - 09/20/16 08:33 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

bodhi said:
if I were going to do everyday misting with chlorine I might try using 15ppm first. if 150ppm is for an actual sighting of pesudo.

15ppm is roughly 10x more ppm available chlorine than most cities tap water




makes sense to me. i try not to complicate things more than necessary and not add anything without good reason (or as an experiment), so that it is easier to debug when something goes wrong.

and i bet pseudo isnt the only thing killed by this solution, so regular misting/watering with it could very well kill off beneficial microbes. This wouldnt matter at all in some cases, and would be essential in others, since some species depend on microbes in the soil (or casing layer) to fruit. a highly domesticated agaricus or cubensis isnt going to need much help from other microbes, which probably explains why some agaricus growers use chlorine solution for all watering. if they were growing a species that depends on a microbial trigger to fruit (or depends on a symbiotic relationship at some other point in its lifecycle), that probably wouldnt work.

apparently, 150 ppm chlorine solution is also recommended for postharvest vegetable/produce washing to kill soilborne and waterborne pathogens

Quote:

serological pipette




THIS. these things are awesome, changed my life haha... i have them in several sizes and multiples of each, they are so handy. they are dirt cheap too. but MAKE SURE you also get a pipette bulb and/or pipette controller to be able to use it... when i first got mine i forgot to get a bulb, and drove myself crazy trying to figure out how the hell this thing made anything EASIER lol

it is so helpful to use tools that were actually made for microbiology :smile: a lot of it is suprisingly cheap. at the very least look into: media bottles, serological pipettes, flow hood, surgical/lab gowns, lab glassware (beakers, flasks, graduated cylinders, distillation apparatus, chromatography columns, etc), chems to do simple A/B extractions, buchner funnels and vaccuum flasks (OMG this and a vacuum aspirator changed my life, and the lives of all my friends in the cannabis concentrate industry; vacuum filtration FTW).... i think im getting a boner lol... i love learning the way people who actually study and practice microbiology do things, and the tools they use, because they are ALWAYS better than the rigged-up shit i was/am using

Quote:

kenetic said:
Well I recently became aware of the disease when my last batch was infected by it, and it seems to be fairly common so I am open to ways to deal with it should I encounter it again.




smart man. it seems to begin when a drop of water is left on the surface of a fruit, so i have been trying to turn my humidity down a bit once fruits begin to show, as TMC recommends, and cranking up FAE to ensure that water doesnt get a chance to stagnate. keep us posted, id love to hear your experience moving forward 

Quote:

spacechildo said:
I dont wanna put words in blackouts mouth but I think his point was 150-250ppm isnt an exact number, not that you shouldn't be meticulous when working with numbers in ppm/very small numbers.

and I have to say I agree with him :shrug:




I made it quite clear in my original post that TMC recommends a range, and at no point suggested otherwise

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
blackout brought up several good points, including pointing out that TMC recommends a range




so like i said, there is no argument there. Also like i said:

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
no one said a 149 ppm solution wouldnt kill pseudomonas, i just wanted to make sure people had the info at hand to make the calculations for making a 150 ppm solution based on the available chlorine of their particular sodium hypochlorite product.




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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23662660 - 09/20/16 08:40 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

OK, you just seemed like you didn't get his point when you said this:

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
missing your point? you haven't made a point, or clearly stated any argument. i really think you should dial back the animosity a bit, and think

"near enough" is not the correct way to calculate anything, especially not a ppm solution, please dont spread misinformation




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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: spacechildo]
    #23662693 - 09/20/16 08:50 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

i wouldnt have said that TMC called for a range of 150-250 ppm in the OP if i didnt get that much

so i agreed and reiterated it when he said it, which certainly doesnt constitute an argument

but yeah i stand by that statement

Quote:

"near enough" is not the correct way to calculate anything, especially not a ppm solution, please dont spread misinformation




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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23662800 - 09/20/16 09:21 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

well okay, you just seemed kinda pissed and it seemed to me you werent understanding each other correctly, simply tried to help out.

not to say your thread isn't useful but IMO the best ways to deal with pseudomonas is to not get them in the first place.
prevent instead of fixing by cutting down misting, especially if your tubs arent dialed in for good FAE!


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: spacechildo]
    #23663009 - 09/20/16 10:18 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

Nah man

certainly nothing to get pissed about, we are all adults, we can have a conversation without looking for reasons to get pissed, taking something out of context, or having to try to "argue" without actually putting forth an argument

anything ive said in this thread was for the sake of clarity and the benefit of anyone reading, people should try not to take that personally

And of course the best way to deal with pseudomonas is to not get them in the first place (a little redundant there) :rolleyes:

i also made it very clear in the OP that for the purpose of treating pseudomonas fixing the conditions that led to their becoming established should be the first step. also mentioned that the solution will not help UNLESS you also fix the conditions, and that fixing the conditions can clear it up without the solution. also mentioned some ways to prevent them. context is everything


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Edited by c10h12n2o (08/28/20 09:17 PM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23663028 - 09/20/16 10:23 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

I mouth pipette everything, don't try that at home. I mouth pipette cycloheximide lol. Skillz for days.


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23663095 - 09/20/16 10:40 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

lmao.... and here on the right we can see bodhi mouth pipetting dichloromethane



mouth pipetting seems like something a horny high school chemistry teacher would teach hahaha... "girl you gotta suck harder than that!"


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o] * 1
    #23664120 - 09/21/16 07:04 AM (4 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
pissed? i assure you, me pissed sounds entirely different haha... why in the world would i be pissed at someone for acting thickheaded?




well maybe pissed wasn't the right word, but comments like that makes you sound passive aggressive as if you were an offended chick :shrug:

And you seem to have a history of getting upset when you dont understand what other people mean, like you got upset with me for not explaining BE in a way you could understand etc :lol:


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: spacechildo]
    #23665242 - 09/21/16 04:30 PM (4 years, 4 days ago)

what in the world are you talking about? nothing to be offended about, i dont get offended. im perfectly capable of correcting misinformation without getting offended by it lol... im not emotionally invested in this forum , and i think those who are are quite silly

i will leave all the passive aggressive comments, misinterpretations, and trying to create an argument where none exists to you, that really seems to be your flavor, but i am here to learn and discuss

i make a point to be clear and succinct, and you seem to make a habit out of taking it personally

Quote:

And you seem to have a history of getting upset when you dont understand what other people mean, like you got upset with me for not explaining BE in a way you could understand etc :lol:




again, what in the world are you talking about? idk if you are confusing me with someone else, or if you are just making stuff up.... but that didnt happen

if you have something to add please do, but if you are going to try to argue please put forth an actual argument. ideally one that adds something constructive to the discussion :rolleyes:

i get that you are trying to be rude/contentious/antagonistic, and that personal attacks and name-calling is your best attempt to do so, but  it is sorely offbase and you are doing a very poor job of it.

we are trying to have a discussion here, take that shit to the pub


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Edited by c10h12n2o (09/21/16 04:40 PM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23665268 - 09/21/16 04:40 PM (4 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
i will leave all the passive aggressive comments, misinterpretations, and trying to create an argument where none exists to you, that really seems to be your flavor, but i am here to learn and discuss





:goodluck:
:lol:


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: spacechildo]
    #23665275 - 09/21/16 04:43 PM (4 years, 4 days ago)

:cheers: :bye:


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Re: How to Make page 3 suck [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #23666283 - 09/21/16 10:31 PM (4 years, 4 days ago)

:offtopicman:  :beatadeadhorse:


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Re: How to Make page 3 suck [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #23667886 - 09/22/16 02:11 PM (4 years, 4 days ago)

:lol:

sorry about my part in that, I just didnt expect it to be such a long winded task to explain how 150-250 isnt an exact number.


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Re: How to Make page 3 suck [Re: spacechildo]
    #23668012 - 09/22/16 02:56 PM (4 years, 4 days ago)

feel free to actually contribute to the conversation... :rolleyes: or find something better to do?

repeating things that were said in the OP, and have been reiterated a dozen times, trying to argue without making an actual argument, and name calling / being rude for its own sake certainly isnt adding adding anything


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Re: How to Make page 3 suck [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23668036 - 09/22/16 03:04 PM (4 years, 4 days ago)

Yep we got it...

I would error on the low side. Use the lowest concentration that's effective is usually the rule of thumb in industry


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Re: How to Make page 3 suck [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23668061 - 09/22/16 03:10 PM (4 years, 4 days ago)

I cant see where I did any name calling, all I tried to do was help you see what blackout was talking about. I give up now so you can stear this thread however you like :super:


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Re: How to Make page 3 suck [Re: spacechildo]
    #23668085 - 09/22/16 03:17 PM (4 years, 4 days ago)

much obliged :cheers:

the only place anyone didnt understand that it was 150-250 ppm called for by TMC was in your imagination, it was certainly clear in the OP

no one needs you to point out every time a post is longer (some would say more comprehensive) than your reading comprehension skills can handle, that is useless to readers and contributes nothing to the conversation.


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Kenetic]
    #23676630 - 09/25/16 02:27 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
i will tell you like my grandpa told me: "you open your mouth and you remove all doubt" :rofl:



hahaha, the irony of that is brilliant.

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:the fact that you would think the specific gravity of my bleach sounds "overly high" underscores how many assumptions you are making


I was assuming it would be similar to all the other bleach MSDS pages I saw (I know, how crazy is that...), but it was way higher, and so I figured you either fucked up your measurement, or just as likely -that you were lying about it to attempt to prove your point about them being very different.

There is a MSDS for a 8.25% smart sense bleach here
http://kik.chemtel.net/results.php
Not saying it is yours, but the SG is 1.09 minimum. Most others I look at are around that. If yours genuinely is what you measured it is very likely high in excess sodium hydroxide, presuming its a "thin bleach". Doesn't state if it's by volume or weight, I guess you will assume by volume even though you ridicule me for making assumptions...


Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
bleach is usually sold by volume, if you cant figure that out from your gallon of bleach, its going to be damn hard for you to interpret data sheets



you did see my link to the clorox 8.25% bleach right? which clearly states its percentage weight. While all the clorox ones you claim to have seen are by volume.
Quote:

clorox, and every other bleach product that i have ever bought is sold and labeled based on volume (usually by the gallon), and the percentages of the active ingredients and available chlorine are also by volume.



Are you going to add this oh so vital info for people to check in your original post? or just stick you head in the sand again to save face.


Quote:

kenetic said:my bleach is 7.86% available chlorine. in other words 1 gallon of this bleach = 0.0786 gallons of chlorine.



If you want to make it as exact as the instructions in the OP you should check if its by weight or volume -but it really doesn't matter for what you are doing. The clorox instructions for their 8.25% (by weight) bleach say to add 2 tsps to 2 gallons to make a 200pppm mixture. So you could add 1tsp to 1.5gallons to roughly get 150ppm, it will be a off 150, the proper calculation is more complex but as you do not know the exact level of chlorine in your bleach it's all an estimate anyway. I expect bottles which are 8.25% by volume might have the same formula for 200ppm as all MSDS sheets I have seen for thin bleach show its close enough in density & SG to water, and the producers would also be well aware that it's not that important.


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: blackout]
    #23676642 - 09/25/16 02:33 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Blackout has me on ignore :shrug: too bad he could learn something.


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23677266 - 09/25/16 06:31 PM (4 years, 21 hours ago)



Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

c10h12n2o said:the fact that you would think the specific gravity of my bleach sounds "overly high" underscores how many assumptions you are making


I was assuming it would be similar to all the other bleach MSDS pages I saw "





:rolleyes: assumptions are always a bad idea, and your posts are case-in-point as to why

especially when assumptions about specific gravity are COMPLETELY irrelevant to what we are doing here (ppm solution by volume)

Quote:

blackout said:
There is a MSDS for a 8.25% smart sense bleach here
http://kik.chemtel.net/results.php
Not saying it is yours, but the SG is 1.09 minimum. Most others I look at are around that. If yours genuinely is what you measured it is very likely high in excess sodium hydroxide, presuming its a "thin bleach". Doesn't state if it's by volume or weight, I guess you will assume by volume even though you ridicule me for making assumptions...




ive never ridiculed anyone on this forum, its not my style. dont take things so personally. pointing out a problem is not the same as ridicule. if you were being ridiculed by someone with an english degree it would sting a little more lol... hell, the only reason i make half my posts is asking to be corrected or set on the right track,  its my favorite thing about the forum., lots of smart people here trying to help people learn

Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
bleach is usually sold by volume, if you cant figure that out from your gallon of bleach, its going to be damn hard for you to interpret data sheets



you did see my link to the clorox 8.25% bleach right? which clearly states its percentage weight. While all the clorox ones you claim to have seen are by volume.
Quote:

clorox, and every other bleach product that i have ever bought is sold and labeled based on volume (usually by the gallon), and the percentages of the active ingredients and available chlorine are also by volume.



Are you going to add this oh so vital info for people to check in your original post? or just stick you head in the sand again to save face.




lol... the random 4 year old MSDS which you refer to, and admit that it could very well not be mine (i would add that its very outdated), does not say anything that suggests anything wrong with my numbers (which based on calibrations and weighing water seem WAAAAAAY more accurate than your scale)

again, weight and volume are two different aspects of the same solution, the same solution can be measured either way. And you could make a ppm solution either way, but it would either be ppm by weight or ppm by volume, necessarily. you cant mix or substitute those figures, especially not based on assumptions, the measurements have to match

so just because a particular measurement is expressed in weight somewhere in an MSDS does not mean that the solution is not sold and labeled by volume. ppm solutions are mutually exclusive of either volume or weight, but MSDS can have measurements based on both and be completely accurate. that is why it is important to interpret these documents correctly, not just look for a word and take it to mean what you want it to

the MSDS you reference says:
Quote:

Specific Gravity:    1.09 minimum (water=1)




maybe you are confusing the words "minimum" and "maximum"?

because that MSDS necessarily reiterates and proves the point i made which got you so mad in the first place, where i corrected the original post where you started injecting misinformation into the thread...


Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
no, that is a different type of ratio, what you are referring to would be a weight:volume , this is a volume : volume ratio, it could/would be entirely different



I would imagine 1ml of your bleach is near enough to 1gram.




Also: 1.09 minimum means that measurements i took are right in line with the MSDS. again, you seem to be struggling to interpret these documents, they are not built to facilitate assumptions

head in the sand? no idea what you are talking about, or why. LMAO its safe to say that no one who has ever known me has ever accused me of "hiding my head in the sand," must be another of your assumptions, or standard "attacks" :rolleyes:

please try not to get so emotionally invested in threads, it is nonsense and silly. dont take having misinformation corrected so personally, its not personal, the only reason i would bother correcting it in the first place is for the benefit of anyone reading who might be confused by such unfounded assumptions


Quote:

kenetic said:my bleach is 7.86% available chlorine. in other words 1 gallon of this bleach = 0.0786 gallons of chlorine.




Quote:

blackout said:If you want to make it as exact as the instructions in the OP you should check if its by weight or volume -but it really doesn't matter for what you are doing. The clorox instructions for their 8.25% (by weight) bleach say to add 2 tsps to 2 gallons to make a 200pppm mixture. So you could add 1tsp to 1.5gallons to roughly get 150ppm, it will be a off 150, the proper calculation is more complex but as you do not know the exact level of chlorine in your bleach it's all an estimate anyway. I expect bottles which are 8.25% by volume might have the same formula for 200ppm as all MSDS sheets I have seen for thin bleach show its close enough in density & SG to water, and the producers would also be well aware that it's not that important.




no one is stopping you from making all the assumptions you want about specific gravity, substituting mass measurements for volume, etc, but it is absolutely bad advice to tell other people to do the same. If assumptions and guesses are not necessary, or are not called for at all, its best to avoid them.

If a solution is sold and labeled by volume, its crazy to be making assumptions about un-standardized qualities. i made my best attempt to provide the relevant info for people to calculate a PPM volume solution based on any substance with a known chlorine availability by volume, not just a particular brand of bleach, that was the point. so its absurd to make guesses about the specific gravity of a particular brand, which could be all over the place based on dissolved solids (which is completely irrelevant here)


Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Blackout has me on ignore :shrug: too bad he could learn something.




damn sure could. it doesnt seem like he is in "learning-mode" at the moment though, so idk how much good it would do.

for his benefit:


Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

I weighed 10ml of water a syringe there, scale showed 9.4g, 10ml of 5% labelled bleach was 9.7g on the same scale & syringe




worry about calibrating your scale first buddy.





Quote:

bodhisatta said:
If it's a % both units have to match. So if it's 3% bleach that means by volume if it's filled by volume. Or weight of its filled by weight.

the unit "%" is sometimes incorrectly used to denote mass concentration, also called "mass/volume percentage." A solution with 1 g of solute dissolved in a final volume of 100 mL of solution would be labeled as "1%" or "1% m/v" (mass/volume). The notation is mathematically flawed because the unit "%" can only be used for dimensionless quantities. "Percent solution" or "percentage solution" are thus terms best reserved for "mass percent solutions" (m/m = m% = mass solute/mass total solution after mixing), or "volume percent solutions" (v/v = v% = volume solute per volume of total solution after mixing). The very ambiguous terms "percent solution" and "percentage solutions" with no other qualifiers, continue to occasionally be encountered.

7.86% v/v
Think of your bleach as
78600ppm

Say you want to make one gal of 150ppm solution

C1V1=C2V2

(78600)(?)=(150ppm)(1gal or 3785mL)
78600x=567750
X=7.25mL give or take.

Take 3785-7.25mL water and then add the 7.25mL concentrate to make a final volume of 3785mL 150ppm


Say you want to make 1000ml

78600ppm(7.86%) * x = 150ppm * 1000

X= 1.908..mL

Ok its hard to measure that. So take one spoon of bleach and 9 spoons of water. Spoon can be any small volume like a shot glass.

So that's a 10% solution you need 19.08ml or 19ml and then dump that in a spray bottle and fill to the 1L line.

You'll be within 140-160ppm with the slight inaccuracies in measurement


Basically what c10 said. But with the math display a hair different so whatever clicks best in your head





Edited by c10h12n2o (09/25/16 09:47 PM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23683131 - 09/27/16 02:48 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
head in the sand? no idea what you are talking about, or why.




Pathetic, people know exactly what you are now though, so that's a plus.


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: blackout]
    #23683136 - 09/27/16 02:54 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:

Quote:

kenetic said:my bleach is 7.86% available chlorine. in other words 1 gallon of this bleach = 0.0786 gallons of chlorine.





If you want to make it as exact as the instructions in the OP you should check if its by weight or volume -but it really doesn't matter for what you are doing. The clorox instructions for their 8.25% (by weight) bleach say to add 2 tsps to 2 gallons to make a 200pppm mixture. So you could add 1tsp to 1.5gallons to roughly get 150ppm, it will be a off 150, the proper calculation is more complex but as you do not know the exact level of chlorine in your bleach it's all an estimate anyway. I expect bottles which are 8.25% by volume might have the same formula for 200ppm as all MSDS sheets I have seen for thin bleach show its close enough in density & SG to water, and the producers would also be well aware that it's not that important.





Makes sense to me (kind of), although this whole thread is starting to get too complicated lol. 

Btw I was actually quoting his exact words in the op.  Copy and paste


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Edited by Kenetic (09/27/16 02:58 PM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Kenetic]
    #23683275 - 09/27/16 03:47 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
head in the sand? no idea what you are talking about, or why.




Pathetic, people know exactly what you are now though, so that's a plus.




??? again, no idea what you are talking about, or why you are taking things so personally, and trying to make everything so personal... its not personal

based on the pms and posts in the thread thanking me for sharing, i think its safe to say most people appreciate it. still cant figure out why you are so emotionally invested in your assumptions though, or what you are talking about when you present a cliche as an attack, totally out of context...

if you care to learn anything, you really should read bodhi's posts, he is a lot better at math/chemistry/lab technique than me in general, and he does a great job explaining it

Quote:

kenetic said:
Quote:

blackout said:

Quote:

kenetic said:my bleach is 7.86% available chlorine. in other words 1 gallon of this bleach = 0.0786 gallons of chlorine.





If you want to make it as exact as the instructions in the OP you should check if its by weight or volume -but it really doesn't matter for what you are doing. The clorox instructions for their 8.25% (by weight) bleach say to add 2 tsps to 2 gallons to make a 200pppm mixture. So you could add 1tsp to 1.5gallons to roughly get 150ppm, it will be a off 150, the proper calculation is more complex but as you do not know the exact level of chlorine in your bleach it's all an estimate anyway. I expect bottles which are 8.25% by volume might have the same formula for 200ppm as all MSDS sheets I have seen for thin bleach show its close enough in density & SG to water, and the producers would also be well aware that it's not that important.





Makes sense to me (kind of), although this whole thread is starting to get too complicated lol. 

Btw I was actually quoting his exact words in the op.  Copy and paste





it really isnt that complicated, as long as you do it right and dont try to substitute grams for milliliters in your math. none of that stuff about specific gravity, MSDS sheets, or any of that other "complicated" stuff is relevant to what we are doing (making a ppm solution by volume). it sounds complicated because it is irrelevant to the task at hand, off-topic, and unnecessarily ambiguous

it sounded like you had a good understanding in your previous posts. the math bodhi wrote up was based on your figures, so it should be spot on for your product and what you are doing

the 2 stage dilution really helps increase the margin for error enough that the components can be easily measured


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23683329 - 09/27/16 04:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I guess I mean the conflict  in this thread is getting a little complicated (and redundant).  I still plan on using this method if I need it.


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Kenetic]
    #23684201 - 09/27/16 08:57 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I like conflict.  :popcorn:


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Inocuole] * 2
    #23684224 - 09/27/16 09:09 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
I like conflict.  :popcorn:




Conflict builds nations. The people's republic of America shall start on the disagreement on proportions to make a correctly 150ppm chlorine solution. Establishments will fall. The NWO will try to implement it's ultimate worst case scenario plan into action, but it will be too late. A nation divided. By science. :popcorn:

The schizm between psychedelic producers has become irreconcileable. The dark shrooms shall grow from the negativity and bring hell and brimstone. The fruits of the nephilim may save the rest from the scourge of chaos psychedelic researchers on rampage.

Nothing will be the same. A teaspoon of chlorox means the difference between eternal damnation and nirvana.

I should write copywriting.


Edited by dankington (09/27/16 09:11 PM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: dankington]
    #23684266 - 09/27/16 09:19 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Very good write up thanks for the info! :highfive:


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: kushroom]
    #23686478 - 09/28/16 02:37 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

kenetic said:
I guess I mean the conflict  in this thread is getting a little complicated (and redundant).  I still plan on using this method if I need it.




lol well you are definitely right about that haha... dont let the nonsense confuse you, you are a quick learner and got it fast

Quote:

dankington said:
Quote:

Inocuole said:
I like conflict.  :popcorn:




Conflict builds nations. The people's republic of America shall start on the disagreement on proportions to make a correctly 150ppm chlorine solution. Establishments will fall. The NWO will try to implement it's ultimate worst case scenario plan into action, but it will be too late. A nation divided. By science. :popcorn:

The schizm between psychedelic producers has become irreconcileable. The dark shrooms shall grow from the negativity and bring hell and brimstone. The fruits of the nephilim may save the rest from the scourge of chaos psychedelic researchers on rampage.

Nothing will be the same. A teaspoon of chlorox means the difference between eternal damnation and nirvana.

I should write copywriting.




:rofl:

You should!

the world of internet marketing needs all the copywriters it can get!

pretty fuckin funny though

although for the life of me i dont understand why people take/make everything personal

Quote:

kushroom said:
Very good write up thanks for the info! :highfive:




thanks buddy! glad to be able to contribute something useful :smile: pretty basic stuff for the lab nerds like bodhi, but for the math retards like me we need all the help we can get haha

sweet projects btw!!


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― Friedrich Nietzsche


Edited by c10h12n2o (08/28/20 09:23 PM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #26451543 - 01/25/20 11:43 AM (7 months, 27 days ago)

Here in Puerto Rico, Clorox PR appears to be hiding the concentration.
Do you have any suggestions as to how I could proceed?
.....

I imagine the concentration is so pathetic...


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Inthepit]
    #26451604 - 01/25/20 12:22 PM (7 months, 27 days ago)

Buy dollar store bleach that doesn't have anything other than NaOCl and water


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