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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: How to Make page 3 suck [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23668061 - 09/22/16 02:10 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I cant see where I did any name calling, all I tried to do was help you see what blackout was talking about. I give up now so you can stear this thread however you like :super:


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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: How to Make page 3 suck [Re: spacechildo]
    #23668085 - 09/22/16 02:17 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

much obliged :cheers:

the only place anyone didnt understand that it was 150-250 ppm called for by TMC was in your imagination, it was certainly clear in the OP

no one needs you to point out every time a post is longer (some would say more comprehensive) than your reading comprehension skills can handle, that is useless to readers and contributes nothing to the conversation.


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Kenetic]
    #23676630 - 09/25/16 01:27 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
i will tell you like my grandpa told me: "you open your mouth and you remove all doubt" :rofl:



hahaha, the irony of that is brilliant.

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:the fact that you would think the specific gravity of my bleach sounds "overly high" underscores how many assumptions you are making


I was assuming it would be similar to all the other bleach MSDS pages I saw (I know, how crazy is that...), but it was way higher, and so I figured you either fucked up your measurement, or just as likely -that you were lying about it to attempt to prove your point about them being very different.

There is a MSDS for a 8.25% smart sense bleach here
http://kik.chemtel.net/results.php
Not saying it is yours, but the SG is 1.09 minimum. Most others I look at are around that. If yours genuinely is what you measured it is very likely high in excess sodium hydroxide, presuming its a "thin bleach". Doesn't state if it's by volume or weight, I guess you will assume by volume even though you ridicule me for making assumptions...


Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
bleach is usually sold by volume, if you cant figure that out from your gallon of bleach, its going to be damn hard for you to interpret data sheets



you did see my link to the clorox 8.25% bleach right? which clearly states its percentage weight. While all the clorox ones you claim to have seen are by volume.
Quote:

clorox, and every other bleach product that i have ever bought is sold and labeled based on volume (usually by the gallon), and the percentages of the active ingredients and available chlorine are also by volume.



Are you going to add this oh so vital info for people to check in your original post? or just stick you head in the sand again to save face.


Quote:

kenetic said:my bleach is 7.86% available chlorine. in other words 1 gallon of this bleach = 0.0786 gallons of chlorine.



If you want to make it as exact as the instructions in the OP you should check if its by weight or volume -but it really doesn't matter for what you are doing. The clorox instructions for their 8.25% (by weight) bleach say to add 2 tsps to 2 gallons to make a 200pppm mixture. So you could add 1tsp to 1.5gallons to roughly get 150ppm, it will be a off 150, the proper calculation is more complex but as you do not know the exact level of chlorine in your bleach it's all an estimate anyway. I expect bottles which are 8.25% by volume might have the same formula for 200ppm as all MSDS sheets I have seen for thin bleach show its close enough in density & SG to water, and the producers would also be well aware that it's not that important.


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: blackout]
    #23676642 - 09/25/16 01:33 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Blackout has me on ignore :shrug: too bad he could learn something.


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23677266 - 09/25/16 05:31 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)



Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

c10h12n2o said:the fact that you would think the specific gravity of my bleach sounds "overly high" underscores how many assumptions you are making


I was assuming it would be similar to all the other bleach MSDS pages I saw "





:rolleyes: assumptions are always a bad idea, and your posts are case-in-point as to why

especially when assumptions about specific gravity are COMPLETELY irrelevant to what we are doing here (ppm solution by volume)

Quote:

blackout said:
There is a MSDS for a 8.25% smart sense bleach here
http://kik.chemtel.net/results.php
Not saying it is yours, but the SG is 1.09 minimum. Most others I look at are around that. If yours genuinely is what you measured it is very likely high in excess sodium hydroxide, presuming its a "thin bleach". Doesn't state if it's by volume or weight, I guess you will assume by volume even though you ridicule me for making assumptions...




ive never ridiculed anyone on this forum, its not my style. dont take things so personally. pointing out a problem is not the same as ridicule. if you were being ridiculed by someone with an english degree it would sting a little more lol... hell, the only reason i make half my posts is asking to be corrected or set on the right track,  its my favorite thing about the forum., lots of smart people here trying to help people learn

Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
bleach is usually sold by volume, if you cant figure that out from your gallon of bleach, its going to be damn hard for you to interpret data sheets



you did see my link to the clorox 8.25% bleach right? which clearly states its percentage weight. While all the clorox ones you claim to have seen are by volume.
Quote:

clorox, and every other bleach product that i have ever bought is sold and labeled based on volume (usually by the gallon), and the percentages of the active ingredients and available chlorine are also by volume.



Are you going to add this oh so vital info for people to check in your original post? or just stick you head in the sand again to save face.




lol... the random 4 year old MSDS which you refer to, and admit that it could very well not be mine (i would add that its very outdated), does not say anything that suggests anything wrong with my numbers (which based on calibrations and weighing water seem WAAAAAAY more accurate than your scale)

again, weight and volume are two different aspects of the same solution, the same solution can be measured either way. And you could make a ppm solution either way, but it would either be ppm by weight or ppm by volume, necessarily. you cant mix or substitute those figures, especially not based on assumptions, the measurements have to match

so just because a particular measurement is expressed in weight somewhere in an MSDS does not mean that the solution is not sold and labeled by volume. ppm solutions are mutually exclusive of either volume or weight, but MSDS can have measurements based on both and be completely accurate. that is why it is important to interpret these documents correctly, not just look for a word and take it to mean what you want it to

the MSDS you reference says:
Quote:

Specific Gravity:    1.09 minimum (water=1)




maybe you are confusing the words "minimum" and "maximum"?

because that MSDS necessarily reiterates and proves the point i made which got you so mad in the first place, where i corrected the original post where you started injecting misinformation into the thread...


Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
no, that is a different type of ratio, what you are referring to would be a weight:volume , this is a volume : volume ratio, it could/would be entirely different



I would imagine 1ml of your bleach is near enough to 1gram.




Also: 1.09 minimum means that measurements i took are right in line with the MSDS. again, you seem to be struggling to interpret these documents, they are not built to facilitate assumptions

head in the sand? no idea what you are talking about, or why. LMAO its safe to say that no one who has ever known me has ever accused me of "hiding my head in the sand," must be another of your assumptions, or standard "attacks" :rolleyes:

please try not to get so emotionally invested in threads, it is nonsense and silly. dont take having misinformation corrected so personally, its not personal, the only reason i would bother correcting it in the first place is for the benefit of anyone reading who might be confused by such unfounded assumptions


Quote:

kenetic said:my bleach is 7.86% available chlorine. in other words 1 gallon of this bleach = 0.0786 gallons of chlorine.




Quote:

blackout said:If you want to make it as exact as the instructions in the OP you should check if its by weight or volume -but it really doesn't matter for what you are doing. The clorox instructions for their 8.25% (by weight) bleach say to add 2 tsps to 2 gallons to make a 200pppm mixture. So you could add 1tsp to 1.5gallons to roughly get 150ppm, it will be a off 150, the proper calculation is more complex but as you do not know the exact level of chlorine in your bleach it's all an estimate anyway. I expect bottles which are 8.25% by volume might have the same formula for 200ppm as all MSDS sheets I have seen for thin bleach show its close enough in density & SG to water, and the producers would also be well aware that it's not that important.




no one is stopping you from making all the assumptions you want about specific gravity, substituting mass measurements for volume, etc, but it is absolutely bad advice to tell other people to do the same. If assumptions and guesses are not necessary, or are not called for at all, its best to avoid them.

If a solution is sold and labeled by volume, its crazy to be making assumptions about un-standardized qualities. i made my best attempt to provide the relevant info for people to calculate a PPM volume solution based on any substance with a known chlorine availability by volume, not just a particular brand of bleach, that was the point. so its absurd to make guesses about the specific gravity of a particular brand, which could be all over the place based on dissolved solids (which is completely irrelevant here)


Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Blackout has me on ignore :shrug: too bad he could learn something.




damn sure could. it doesnt seem like he is in "learning-mode" at the moment though, so idk how much good it would do.

for his benefit:


Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

I weighed 10ml of water a syringe there, scale showed 9.4g, 10ml of 5% labelled bleach was 9.7g on the same scale & syringe




worry about calibrating your scale first buddy.





Quote:

bodhisatta said:
If it's a % both units have to match. So if it's 3% bleach that means by volume if it's filled by volume. Or weight of its filled by weight.

the unit "%" is sometimes incorrectly used to denote mass concentration, also called "mass/volume percentage." A solution with 1 g of solute dissolved in a final volume of 100 mL of solution would be labeled as "1%" or "1% m/v" (mass/volume). The notation is mathematically flawed because the unit "%" can only be used for dimensionless quantities. "Percent solution" or "percentage solution" are thus terms best reserved for "mass percent solutions" (m/m = m% = mass solute/mass total solution after mixing), or "volume percent solutions" (v/v = v% = volume solute per volume of total solution after mixing). The very ambiguous terms "percent solution" and "percentage solutions" with no other qualifiers, continue to occasionally be encountered.

7.86% v/v
Think of your bleach as
78600ppm

Say you want to make one gal of 150ppm solution

C1V1=C2V2

(78600)(?)=(150ppm)(1gal or 3785mL)
78600x=567750
X=7.25mL give or take.

Take 3785-7.25mL water and then add the 7.25mL concentrate to make a final volume of 3785mL 150ppm


Say you want to make 1000ml

78600ppm(7.86%) * x = 150ppm * 1000

X= 1.908..mL

Ok its hard to measure that. So take one spoon of bleach and 9 spoons of water. Spoon can be any small volume like a shot glass.

So that's a 10% solution you need 19.08ml or 19ml and then dump that in a spray bottle and fill to the 1L line.

You'll be within 140-160ppm with the slight inaccuracies in measurement


Basically what c10 said. But with the math display a hair different so whatever clicks best in your head





Edited by c10h12n2o (09/25/16 08:47 PM)


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Offlineblackout
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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23683131 - 09/27/16 01:48 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
head in the sand? no idea what you are talking about, or why.




Pathetic, people know exactly what you are now though, so that's a plus.


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: blackout]
    #23683136 - 09/27/16 01:54 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:

Quote:

kenetic said:my bleach is 7.86% available chlorine. in other words 1 gallon of this bleach = 0.0786 gallons of chlorine.





If you want to make it as exact as the instructions in the OP you should check if its by weight or volume -but it really doesn't matter for what you are doing. The clorox instructions for their 8.25% (by weight) bleach say to add 2 tsps to 2 gallons to make a 200pppm mixture. So you could add 1tsp to 1.5gallons to roughly get 150ppm, it will be a off 150, the proper calculation is more complex but as you do not know the exact level of chlorine in your bleach it's all an estimate anyway. I expect bottles which are 8.25% by volume might have the same formula for 200ppm as all MSDS sheets I have seen for thin bleach show its close enough in density & SG to water, and the producers would also be well aware that it's not that important.





Makes sense to me (kind of), although this whole thread is starting to get too complicated lol. 

Btw I was actually quoting his exact words in the op.  Copy and paste


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Edited by Kenetic (09/27/16 01:58 PM)


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Kenetic]
    #23683275 - 09/27/16 02:47 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
head in the sand? no idea what you are talking about, or why.




Pathetic, people know exactly what you are now though, so that's a plus.




??? again, no idea what you are talking about, or why you are taking things so personally, and trying to make everything so personal... its not personal

based on the pms and posts in the thread thanking me for sharing, i think its safe to say most people appreciate it. still cant figure out why you are so emotionally invested in your assumptions though, or what you are talking about when you present a cliche as an attack, totally out of context...

if you care to learn anything, you really should read bodhi's posts, he is a lot better at math/chemistry/lab technique than me in general, and he does a great job explaining it

Quote:

kenetic said:
Quote:

blackout said:

Quote:

kenetic said:my bleach is 7.86% available chlorine. in other words 1 gallon of this bleach = 0.0786 gallons of chlorine.





If you want to make it as exact as the instructions in the OP you should check if its by weight or volume -but it really doesn't matter for what you are doing. The clorox instructions for their 8.25% (by weight) bleach say to add 2 tsps to 2 gallons to make a 200pppm mixture. So you could add 1tsp to 1.5gallons to roughly get 150ppm, it will be a off 150, the proper calculation is more complex but as you do not know the exact level of chlorine in your bleach it's all an estimate anyway. I expect bottles which are 8.25% by volume might have the same formula for 200ppm as all MSDS sheets I have seen for thin bleach show its close enough in density & SG to water, and the producers would also be well aware that it's not that important.





Makes sense to me (kind of), although this whole thread is starting to get too complicated lol. 

Btw I was actually quoting his exact words in the op.  Copy and paste





it really isnt that complicated, as long as you do it right and dont try to substitute grams for milliliters in your math. none of that stuff about specific gravity, MSDS sheets, or any of that other "complicated" stuff is relevant to what we are doing (making a ppm solution by volume). it sounds complicated because it is irrelevant to the task at hand, off-topic, and unnecessarily ambiguous

it sounded like you had a good understanding in your previous posts. the math bodhi wrote up was based on your figures, so it should be spot on for your product and what you are doing

the 2 stage dilution really helps increase the margin for error enough that the components can be easily measured


--------------------

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"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #23683329 - 09/27/16 03:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I guess I mean the conflict  in this thread is getting a little complicated (and redundant).  I still plan on using this method if I need it.


--------------------
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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Kenetic]
    #23684201 - 09/27/16 07:57 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I like conflict.  :popcorn:


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Inocuole] * 2
    #23684224 - 09/27/16 08:09 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
I like conflict.  :popcorn:




Conflict builds nations. The people's republic of America shall start on the disagreement on proportions to make a correctly 150ppm chlorine solution. Establishments will fall. The NWO will try to implement it's ultimate worst case scenario plan into action, but it will be too late. A nation divided. By science. :popcorn:

The schizm between psychedelic producers has become irreconcileable. The dark shrooms shall grow from the negativity and bring hell and brimstone. The fruits of the nephilim may save the rest from the scourge of chaos psychedelic researchers on rampage.

Nothing will be the same. A teaspoon of chlorox means the difference between eternal damnation and nirvana.

I should write copywriting.


Edited by dankington (09/27/16 08:11 PM)


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Offlinekushroom
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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: dankington]
    #23684266 - 09/27/16 08:19 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Very good write up thanks for the info! :highfive:


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: kushroom]
    #23686478 - 09/28/16 01:37 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

kenetic said:
I guess I mean the conflict  in this thread is getting a little complicated (and redundant).  I still plan on using this method if I need it.




lol well you are definitely right about that haha... dont let the nonsense confuse you, you are a quick learner and got it fast

Quote:

dankington said:
Quote:

Inocuole said:
I like conflict.  :popcorn:




Conflict builds nations. The people's republic of America shall start on the disagreement on proportions to make a correctly 150ppm chlorine solution. Establishments will fall. The NWO will try to implement it's ultimate worst case scenario plan into action, but it will be too late. A nation divided. By science. :popcorn:

The schizm between psychedelic producers has become irreconcileable. The dark shrooms shall grow from the negativity and bring hell and brimstone. The fruits of the nephilim may save the rest from the scourge of chaos psychedelic researchers on rampage.

Nothing will be the same. A teaspoon of chlorox means the difference between eternal damnation and nirvana.

I should write copywriting.




:rofl:

You should!

the world of internet marketing needs all the copywriters it can get!

pretty fuckin funny though

although for the life of me i dont understand why people take/make everything personal

Quote:

kushroom said:
Very good write up thanks for the info! :highfive:




thanks buddy! glad to be able to contribute something useful :smile: pretty basic stuff for the lab nerds like bodhi, but for the math retards like me we need all the help we can get haha

sweet projects btw!!


--------------------

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"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche


Edited by c10h12n2o (08/28/20 08:23 PM)


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OnlineInthepit
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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #26451543 - 01/25/20 10:43 AM (7 months, 21 days ago)

Here in Puerto Rico, Clorox PR appears to be hiding the concentration.
Do you have any suggestions as to how I could proceed?
.....

I imagine the concentration is so pathetic...


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Re: How to Make 150 ppm Chlorine Solution [Re: Inthepit]
    #26451604 - 01/25/20 11:22 AM (7 months, 21 days ago)

Buy dollar store bleach that doesn't have anything other than NaOCl and water


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