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Offlinepyrolight
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Is this a Gym? Help appreciated.
    #23650787 - 09/16/16 03:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

It was found on wood (unsure as to what kind), the spore print is brownish, and it was found in Rhode Island. Approximately 2" across though it isn't fully mature. It also really smells like a guava (Sweet and fruity smelling g. luteus are not uncommon).

The gills and stem really look like those of a gymnopilus but the presence of such well-defined squamules makes me think it might be a pholiota

Here are some photos:





Those were taken with a flash to help clarify fine details as it was getting dark and shadows started to obscure some features.

Here is one with natural lighting, as opposed to the others which were taken with a flash (though they are in reality more yellow than this):



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Edited by pyrolight (09/16/16 05:44 PM)


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Offlinepyrolight
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: pyrolight]
    #23650903 - 09/16/16 04:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Here are some more photos (these photos look like maybe gym luteus because of the weakly defined annular zone and the size despite being more shaggy than most specimens of the species i've seen):





Here's some from early on in the growth of these same specimens (these make me think pholiota because of the concentric zones of shagginess on the stem and the somewhat well-defined squamules):





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Edited by pyrolight (09/16/16 04:25 PM)


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OfflineXXfuzyxgamingXX
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: pyrolight]
    #23651023 - 09/16/16 05:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

i dont think thats gymnopilus, looks like pholiota to me but i dont know enough to be sure. wait for ti


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Offlinepyrolight
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: XXfuzyxgamingXX]
    #23651052 - 09/16/16 05:32 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I appreciate the reply!

I have been looking at them all week as they've grown and assuming them to be some kind of pholiota without a second thought, but today i had some misgivings about this ID and picked them, and upon closer inspection of the underside I started to wonder if they might be gyms. The underside of them looks like any g. luteus i've seen, and they have that fruity smell thats associated with g. luteus. That's not to say that you are wrong at all, I would not be surprised to find that you are right (I'm asking here because i'm perplexed by something that looks from the top to be a pholiota and from the bottom to be a gym).


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OfflineBoomBoom
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: pyrolight]
    #23651062 - 09/16/16 05:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Gorgeous mushrooms although I don't believe them to be Gymnopilus of any kind. Im not a TI though. Love the first pic with the spider that's hugging that mushroom like this is my house bitch.


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Offlinepyrolight
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: BoomBoom]
    #23651116 - 09/16/16 05:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Here are some more photos that better show the color:

the cap:



the stem:



the annular zone:



the gills:



the cap halved:



the stem halved:



For some reason i've been unable to coax a good spore print out of these. As such, this measly spot of spores wiped from the inside of the in-rolled cap margin will have to suffice until i leave it to print over night:



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Edited by pyrolight (09/16/16 05:59 PM)


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OfflineBoomBoom
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: pyrolight]
    #23651134 - 09/16/16 06:10 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Good detailed pictures. I stay with my opinion that these are not gyms. Although they do look close to G luteus.


Edited by BoomBoom (09/16/16 06:13 PM)


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Offlinepyrolight
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: BoomBoom]
    #23651148 - 09/16/16 06:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoomBoom said:
Good detailed pictures. I stay with my opinion that these are not gyms.



I would assume not as well but I figured I'd post more pictures just to make any IDs i might get as accurate as possible. I would still be interested even if they are not gyms to see what ideas a TI might have as to their identity since I'm not particularly concerned with whether they are actives (i didnt plan to eat any) and am just interested in solving the mystery.


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OfflineBoomBoom
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: pyrolight]
    #23651154 - 09/16/16 06:19 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Definitely wait for a TI. It's hard to ID gymnopilus sometimes without one. They very well could be gyms. They are very scaly but some gyms do have that feature so just wait. Im hoping they are!:mushroom2:


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OfflineXXfuzyxgamingXX
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: pyrolight]
    #23651322 - 09/16/16 07:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

pyrolight said:

For some reason i've been unable to coax a good spore print out of these. As such, this measly spot of spores wiped from the inside of the in-rolled cap margin will have to suffice until i leave it to print over night:






Gymnopilus mushrooms will leave a thick, full print after only a couple of hours, they are known to produce alot of spores, moreso than other species. if you cant get a print from them while they're still fresh, theres no chance theyre gyms. are the caps slimy when wet? spit on one and rub it with your finger to check. this is what gym spore should look like:


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Edited by XXfuzyxgamingXX (09/16/16 07:24 PM)


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Offlinepyrolight
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: XXfuzyxgamingXX]
    #23651363 - 09/16/16 07:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

XXfuzyxgamingXX said:
Quote:

pyrolight said:

For some reason i've been unable to coax a good spore print out of these. As such, this measly spot of spores wiped from the inside of the in-rolled cap margin will have to suffice until i leave it to print over night:






Gymnopilus mushrooms will leave a thick, full print after only a couple of hours, they are known to produce alot of spores, moreso than other species. if you cant get a print from them while they're still fresh, theres no chance theyre gyms. are the caps slimy when wet? spit on one and rub it with your finger to check. this is what gym spore should look like:





They unfortunately were left out for a bit before i could get to printing them so they may have dried a little, which may have contributed. They also have not had too long to print because i had to change locations between my first try at printing them and now. as such, they haven't been printing for more than an hour or so at any point and i started a new print this time so i cant say conclusively that they don't leave a strong print after a couple of hours (i apologize if the way i said that without explanation was misleading)- i will update when it has had a while to print.

The cap was not slimy when wet. What does this suggest?

By the way, your recent gym finds have been beautiful


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OfflineXXfuzyxgamingXX
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: pyrolight]
    #23651410 - 09/16/16 07:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

thanks man haha im looking forward to a bioassay... if the caps were slimy it would mean they were pholiota. if theyre not, they might not be. i took a look at the shrooms in rhode island which you can find here: 
https://www.shroomery.org/8461/Which-psilocybin-mushrooms-grow-wild-in-my-area

it looks like junonius is the only gym that grows in r.i., and those really dont look like them, sorry man. check out this picture of pholiota aurivella, they look alot similar to what youve found
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Pholiota_aurivella_%281%29.jpg

with that being said, now is gym season, if you look hard enough you stand a decent chance of finding some. dont give up just bcuz what you have there may not be legit, keep looking


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Offlinepyrolight
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: XXfuzyxgamingXX]
    #23651436 - 09/16/16 08:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Pholiota Aurivella was my original ID for these but something about the gills and stem didn't quite seem to fit and especially with the cap not being slimy when wet it seems somewhat unlikely to me, but i could be wrong (i definitely have been in the past haha). Thanks for all the help- I appreciate it.


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Offlinepyrolight
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: pyrolight]
    #23651461 - 09/16/16 08:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

If there is a trusted identifier willing to weigh in it would be appreciated since i still have misgivings about its being P. aurivella (if you tell me thats what it is i'll finally shut up haha) or even pholiota of any kind since it wasnt slimy at all when wet.


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Edited by pyrolight (09/16/16 08:25 PM)


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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: pyrolight]
    #23651565 - 09/16/16 09:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Any odor? Gyms can be distinctive though I find it hard to describe
Bitter? Taste & spit

G


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Offlinepyrolight
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: gman]
    #23651573 - 09/16/16 09:19 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

gman said:
Any odor? Gyms can be distinctive though I find it hard to describe
Bitter? Taste & spit

G



Its odor as i mentioned is sweet and fruity (similar to guava). I know that there is no danger in tasting a mushroom briefly, especially one thats likely either a pholiota or gymnopilus, but the idea makes me very anxious (I have a great fear of contamination of any sort)- sorry if thats a stupid excuse haha

thanks for the help


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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: pyrolight]
    #23651607 - 09/16/16 09:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Pholiota


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Offlinepyrolight
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: donjonson420]
    #23651618 - 09/16/16 09:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

donjonson420 said:
Pholiota



any idea as to what species? im still interested in trying to ID


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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: pyrolight]
    #23651646 - 09/16/16 09:47 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Not exactly off hand but aurivella is a good starting point. The spores are brown amongst several reasons and clearly illustrated in the first photo of your second post.


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Offlinepyrolight
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: donjonson420]
    #23651650 - 09/16/16 09:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

donjonson420 said:
Not exactly off hand but aurivella is a good starting point. The spores are brown amongst several reasons and clearly illustrated in the first photo of your second post.



What do you make of the cap not being slimy when wet?


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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: pyrolight]
    #23652208 - 09/17/16 05:41 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

pyrolight said:
It was found on wood (unsure as to what kind)




looks like a birch log


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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
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Offlinepyrolight
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: Yrat]
    #23652302 - 09/17/16 06:59 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Heres a spore print. Its not that dark despite its being left overnight but its enough to show the color:



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OfflineBoomBoom
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: pyrolight]
    #23652308 - 09/17/16 07:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Dayum dude. Im sorry nobody's been able to give you a definite. See if your spores glow under uv light because I believe I read gymnopilus spores will glow under blacklight. The gills and spores I believe. That's all I got buddy good luck!


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Offlinepyrolight
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: BoomBoom]
    #23652328 - 09/17/16 07:29 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoomBoom said:
Dayum dude. Im sorry nobody's been able to give you a definite. See if your spores glow under uv light because I believe I read gymnopilus spores will glow under blacklight. The gills and spores I believe. That's all I got buddy good luck!



Thanks! I'll try this when i get a chance.


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Offlinepyrolight
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: pyrolight]
    #23652374 - 09/17/16 07:57 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I've been thinking maybe a darker-than-usual Pholiota destruens var edmundii (i think the most recent name would be hemipholiota populnea var edmundii) like those in these pictures:

http://www.mycoquebec.org/bas.php?trie=H&l=l&nom=Hemipholiota%20populnea%20var.%20edmundii%20/%20H%C3%A9mipholiote%20du%20peuplier,%20vari%C3%A9t%C3%A9%20d%27Edmund&tag=Hemipholiota%20populnea%20var.%20edmundii&gro=35 (this also provides ID info (its in french but when translated it matches up 100% with my specimen))

https://www.flickr.com/photos/35339178@N03/3313628394

http://mycoportal.org/portal/taxa/index.php?taxauthid=1&taxon=Pholiota+destruens+var.+edmundii

Can anyone confirm or correct this assessment?


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Edited by pyrolight (09/17/16 09:10 AM)


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Offlinepyrolight
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: Yrat]
    #23652448 - 09/17/16 08:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
Quote:

pyrolight said:
It was found on wood (unsure as to what kind)




looks like a birch log




With further examination, I think it looks like some populus log (perhaps populus alba?), which matches my current theory for the ID


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Offlinepyrolight
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: pyrolight]
    #23653027 - 09/17/16 12:33 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Would any of the Trusted Identifiers be willing to confirm or deny my ID of Hemipholiota populnea var. edmondii (synonymous with pholiota destruens var edmondii and possibly the european species hemipholiota heteroclita)? This would be interesting since it would (as far as i can find) be the first time it is described from Rhode Island or any of the surrounding states.

Here's one of the more in-depth descriptions I've found of this variant to make the work easier for anyone willing to try. It was however translated from French by way of google so the translation is rather imperfect but the meaning is preserved:

Hat

3-10 cm diam., Widely omboné hemispherical then convex, viscidule hairless disk with plates velar fibrilleuses appressed or méchules scattered brownish background cream ochraceous, paler at edges, curved margin early, fringed or appendiculée velar remnants of

blades

adnate to adnexed narrow to moderately broad, tight, cream and brown or dark vinous cinnamon, whole-edges, the faces Concolorous

Foot

4-12 (14) x 0.8-2 cm, expanded at the base, stuffed and then hollow, silky and white at the apex, with fine fibrils méchuleuses-velar, whitish to brownish, becoming yellow and rust ochracé crease, rusty brown with age

partial veil

leaving a ring or zone fibrillose superior cream evanescent

Flesh

very thick, whitish

Smell and taste

slightly fragrant smell fruity ± foul on background, sometimes absent, mild flavor

Spore print

brown rust

http://www.mycoquebec.org/bas.php?trie=H&l=l&nom=Hemipholiota%20populnea%20var.%20edmundii%20/%20H%C3%A9mipholiote%20du%20peuplier,%20vari%C3%A9t%C3%A9%20d%27Edmund&tag=Hemipholiota%20populnea%20var.%20edmundii&gro=35

This is the website from which the description was translated and it provides pictures.

Thanks again and sorry for posting so many times in a row. I appreciate all of the help i have gotten and may yet get.


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Edited by pyrolight (09/17/16 12:50 PM)


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Offlineva hunter
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Re: Is this a Gym? Help appreciated. [Re: pyrolight]
    #23669898 - 09/23/16 12:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

FYI - I'm pretty sure Gyms DON'T GLOW.  Jack O'Lantern Mushroom or Omphalotus illudens have spores that glow but i've never seen them do so.


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