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eyeless5417796
Amateur myco-culturist


Registered: 04/02/16
Posts: 7
Loc: Washington, on the wrong ...
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Psilocybe samuiensis genetics and family.
#23650599 - 09/16/16 02:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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PLEASE DELETE IF NOT ALLOWED. OK so I've been exploring the shroomery for a great while as a crawler. Well I finally got my account back.
My question is this. Psilocybe samuiensis is widely considered a cubensis by vendors and growers alike. I find very little literature on the actual relations of this mushroom to the mexicane genus and if cross breeding with members of the same sp.
What is the closest related mushroom. And can it be bred with samuiensis? Can anything?
Thanks and mushlove
~theeyelessone
-------------------- Full myco jacket
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cc2
Mush

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 2,611
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Re: Psilocybe samuiensis genetics and family. [Re: eyeless5417796]
#23728553 - 10/11/16 03:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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it is listed as a legitimate species http://www.mycobank.org/name/Psilocybe%20samuiensis&Lang=Eng
crossing is possible but it's not as simple as baking up bread and it doesn't guarantee any superior performance in resulting hybrids, closest members are those in the mexicanae section (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybe_samuiensis), this thread may be helpful in showing how it relates to other species https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20727047
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eyeless5417796
Amateur myco-culturist


Registered: 04/02/16
Posts: 7
Loc: Washington, on the wrong ...
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: Psilocybe samuiensis genetics and family. [Re: cc2]
#23734252 - 10/13/16 02:10 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Im actually doing sclerotia experiments. If sclerotia forms in lc or agar for ps. Samuensi it genetically can invitro produce stones.HYPOTHESIS. In theory a monokaryotic myc from ps. Samuensi can be bred to produce stones at a much faster rate than traditional producers because of its agressive growth. My firat step is to isolate a fast rhizomorphic monoculture from ps Samuensi.mate it with another monokaryotic cupture of the same propretys(maybe sector it and try and stress it into becoming dikaryotic in itsself) And grow it out in a l.c to have a control where i can measure the griwth of stones doing the same thing maybe with tampensis, then after a stable generation is reached i do another s.s.i on both and attempt to breed them in 20 or 30 dishes each 10 containing different media. Hopefully i can create a new generation that produces sclerotua faster than tamps and bigger than ps Samuensi. But its a longshot also try and fruit it see if it takes on any interesting macro and mucro characteristics.
-------------------- Full myco jacket
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cc2
Mush

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 2,611
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Re: Psilocybe samuiensis genetics and family. [Re: eyeless5417796]
#23734387 - 10/13/16 02:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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you can try that but crossing is not guaranteed, they'd just compete against each other, moreover if you plan to cross it with another species without any cytolythic compound. also keep in mind that crossing, when it works, is not necessarily picking out only your desired features, but again it's up to you, show us what you manage to do.
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eyeless5417796
Amateur myco-culturist


Registered: 04/02/16
Posts: 7
Loc: Washington, on the wrong ...
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: Psilocybe samuiensis genetics and family. [Re: cc2]
#23740536 - 10/15/16 05:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Itll take years and probably more to stabalize a cross ifthere is one, but its my idea and ill keep tryin til i do. Maybe capture a diamond back i know rhe area i can milk it,
-------------------- Full myco jacket
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 8 hours, 27 minutes
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Re: Psilocybe samuiensis genetics and family. [Re: eyeless5417796]
#23750323 - 10/18/16 09:09 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Psilocybe samuiensis is a valid species that is very closely related to Psilocybe mexicana.
There are DNA sequences from four gene regions available in GenBank: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/?term=Psilocybe+samuiensis
A BLAST of the ITS region shows this:

If any other species can breed with Psilocybe samuiensis, it would be either Psilocybe mexicana or Psilocybe caerulescens. You can try with P. tampanensis and P. galindoi as they are also P. mexicana.
P. caerulescens is 25 base pairs away from P. samuiensis, and P. mexicana is 28 base pairs away in the ITS region. Psilocybe zapotecorum is the next closest relative, at 38 base pairs away.
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hjalmar
chemist, autist


Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 295
Loc: Belgica Secunda
Last seen: 9 months, 25 days
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Do you mean the ps. tampanensis is identical with ps. mexicana? Or is it another species but so closely related it will likely interbreed?
Has anyone tried inoculating tampanensis spores and mexicana spores in the same petri dish, just to watch their reaction when they meet?
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 8 hours, 27 minutes
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Re: Psilocybe samuiensis genetics and family. [Re: hjalmar]
#23773961 - 10/26/16 04:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hjalmar said: Do you mean the ps. tampanensis is identical with ps. mexicana?
I think they are the same, and when they turned up in the USA they just called them a different name because they assumed they were different.
Quote:
Has anyone tried inoculating tampanensis spores and mexicana spores in the same petri dish, just to watch their reaction when they meet?
I don't think so. I am sure that single spore isolates would get along just fine.
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eyeless5417796
Amateur myco-culturist


Registered: 04/02/16
Posts: 7
Loc: Washington, on the wrong ...
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Thanks alan for your help, and ssi was my planin the first place trying to mate myc is unreliable at best.
-------------------- Full myco jacket
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meat_master_king
Stranger

Registered: 08/06/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Tacoma, Washington
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Re: Psilocybe samuiensis genetics and family. [Re: eyeless5417796]
#24738190 - 10/26/17 01:37 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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I wonder why someone would think that Psilocybe samuiensis would be considered to be similar to Psilocybe cubensis.
I copied this paper by John Allen who discovered this species in Thailand and it was cultivated by several mushroom enthusiasts including Mr. Allen. Here is a picture of this magic mushroom, an SEM photograph, both by Mr. Allen and a six page paper on the species by him and Dr. Guzman of Mexico, a mycologist who spent his life studying psilocybin mushrooms.
This mushroom looks nothing like Psilocybe cubensis which is a rather large species. It is also the first mushroom known to occur outside of Mexico and the southern USA that is directly related to Psilocybe mexicana.








A decade later, Mr. Allen and several chemists from a University in Thailand presented findings of a new compound in Psilocybe samuiensis.
Cultivation was first presented by Dr. Gartz from Germany in a paper with Mr. Allen and and a Dr. Merlin from Hawaii.
Here is some of that work from a site called Research Gate on the Internet.
Mycelium for the cultivation of Psilocybe samuiensis was obtained on 6% malt agar from the spores of a dried specimen. The growth of Psilocybe samuiensis was similar to that of Psilocybe tampanensis Guzmán and Pollock; but grew more rapidly than the mycelium of Psilocybe semilanceata (Liberty Cap Mushroom). Laboratory analyses indicates that the alkaloid content in cultured fruit bodies of Psilocybe samuiensis is in the same order of magnitude as that found in naturally occurring mushrooms of this species.
HPLC analyses of both naturally occurring and in vitro cultivated fruit bodies of Psilocybe samuiensis revealed high concentrations of psilocybin and psilocin. Small amounts of baeocystin were also detected. Psilocybin levels varied from 0.23% up to 0.90%. The psilocybin content was highest in the caps.
Psilocybin was also found in the cultured non-bluing mycelia of Psilocybe samuiensis and varied from 0.24% to 0.32% dry weight. The relative alkaloidal content of psilocybin, psilocin, and baeocystin found in Psilocybe samuiensis was similar to that measured in other psychoactive fungi, but completely different from that found in Psilocybe semilanceata. A picture of that first cultivationby Dr. Gartz.
Cultivation began on a petri plate by Dr. Scott Leibler in thailand.
Dr. Leibler grew the above pinners from fresh specimens collected near the Burmese border in Ranong Province in Thailand. A few hundred km from where Mr. Allen first discovered the species.
Eventually others grew beautiful specimens such as Simon C.
And even Mr. Workman from Tennessee.
These next two pages are from a journal article published on MAPS website where one can download the whole 190 page journal for free.

Meat_Master_King
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 8 hours, 27 minutes
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Ahh the 90's, back when Bandala got along with Guzman.
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