Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules   Kraken Kratom Buy Kratom Powder & Leaf   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Cultivation Supplies

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlinemusiclover420
psychonaut
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
What it’s like to be high on kratom * 1
    #23650444 - 09/16/16 12:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

, according to the people who use it

Washington Post article

Quote:

The Drug Enforcement Administration has said it will ban the kratom plant for two years because it can produce effects similar to opiates. Although it's been used for centuries in Southeast Asia, its use is relatively new in the United States, spurred in large part by users sharing reports of their experiences with the drug on online forums.

One of the most well-known of those forums is the website Erowid.org, an "online encyclopedia of psychoactive substances," whose founders were profiled in the New Yorker last year. At Erowid, users of everything from caffeine to heroin can submit first-person reports of their experiences with drugs. These "trip reports" are reviewed by moderators, categorized thematically ("bad trips," "glowing experiences," etc.) and published on the website.

The reports are used by both researchers and drug users seeking out information on emerging substances or new use trends in established substances.

[The DEA wants to ban another plant. Researchers say the plan is ‘insane.’]

The website includes 286 user-submitted reports detailing experiences with kratom, either alone or in combination with other drugs. These reports were the subject of a study published last year in the journal Psychoactive Drugs. As authors Marc Swogger and his colleagues note, there has been "little scientific research into the short- and long-term effects of kratom in humans, and much of the information available is anecdotal."

Short of rigorous studies into the drug's effects, Erowid's archives represent the next-best thing.

Swogger and his colleagues read all of the kratom experience reports available on the site at the time — 198 of them, which they whittled down to 161 by tossing out multiple reports submitted by the same user. Then they categorized the reports according to the individuals' overall experiences, positive and negative — euphoria, pain relief, nausea, itching, etc.

Chart it all out, and here's what Erowid's universe of kratom use looks like:






Quote:

The most prominent theme (30.4%) was a sense of well-being that extended in degree to euphoria, especially at higher doses," Swogger and his co-authors write. "Numerous individuals described this effect as similar to that of opiates."

One user wrote that "kratom seems to create a pleasant, mellow and happy effect, like laying in a field of poppies."

Another felt "body relaxation and mental calm with no loss of clarity."

The most common negative experience was nausea, reported by 16 percent of users. A number of others reported chills and sweats.

Of particular interest to public health researchers were the reports relating to dependency — both on kratom itself, as well as reports detailing how people used kratom to wean off other substances. Ten percent of users reported problems with withdrawal after nonuse, while close to 11 percent reported using kratom as a substitute for other drugs, mostly opioids.

[One striking chart shows why pharma companies are fighting legal marijuana]

"In sum," the study concludes, "our findings suggest that the subjective effects of kratom are generally mild and pleasant, with some important negative physical side-effects, including what appears to be a mild (i.e., relative to opiates) dependence syndrome."

How do these self-reported effects compare with those of other drugs, legal and otherwise? It's tough to say. Swogger et. al. didn't run the same analysis for other substances on Erowid. But it's possible to get some sense of the range of site users' experiences for different drugs by looking at the ratio of negative to positive experience reports for each drug.

For each substance listed on Erowid, there are a number of experience categories that are unequivocally negative -- "difficult experiences," "bad trips," "health problems," "train wrecks and trip disasters" and "addiction & habituation." Similarly, other categories indicate positive reports: "glowing experiences," "mystical experiences," "health benefits" and "medical use." Still other categories, like "first time" and "retrospective/summary" don't denote any positive or negative experience.

For a handful of common drugs, legal and illegal, I tallied the number of reports falling under the positive and negative categories. Then, to correct for the fact that some drugs, like marijuana, generate many more experience reports than others, I expressed the numbers as a ratio: For each positive experience reported for the drug, how many negative experiences are there?






Quote:

The first thing that stands out is that for all of these substances, negative experiences outweigh positive. This is somewhat surprising, as drug users are often characterized as irresponsible thrill-seekers careening through life from fix to fix, and looking to entice others to do the same.

But these numbers suggest that the users who visit Erowid are offering unvarnished assessments of their drug use, the good AND the bad.

Among the handful of drugs I looked at, kratom users had the lowest likelihood of reporting negative experiences, followed by users of marijuana and oxycodone. Heroin users reported five bad experiences for every good one. For cocaine users, the ratio was seven to one.

[An unprecedented number of states will vote on marijuana this fall]

But by far the highest ratio of bad-to-good experiences can be found among the site's alcohol users, who submit nearly 13 negative reports for every positive one.

Key point here: This isn't a scientific assessment of drug effects, or relative harm, by any means. Erowid users aren't representative of the general population. People who go to the site are by definition looking for information on novel psychoactive experiences. They may be predisposed to feel negatively toward "traditional" highs, like alcohol.

But what these numbers do tell us is that within a fairly large and diverse community of drug users online, reports of negative experiences with kratom — including addiction and dependency — are relatively rare compared to other, more familiar drugs.

The more rigorous deep-dive into kratom's effects by Marc Swogger and his colleagues suggest that the drug's effects are "generally mild and pleasant," with a risk of some side effects, including a risk of dependency.

The DEA itself has admitted that kratom likely isn't deserving of the DEA's schedule 1 designation, reserved for only the most dangerous drugs.




--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecandry
Stranger
Male
Registered: 09/29/15
Posts: 102
Loc: WA, USA
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: musiclover420]
    #23650790 - 09/16/16 03:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Erowid hand-selects which reports to post and which to throw, based (among other things) on whether the reported experience is interesting or different than usual. This introduces a bias that's almost certainly significant and very possibly huge.

Using report categoriation for data purposes is thus completely worthless.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAspirin
Up on the Hill

Registered: 09/07/16
Posts: 10
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: candry]
    #23650801 - 09/16/16 03:35 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemusiclover420
psychonaut
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: candry]
    #23650856 - 09/16/16 04:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

How is it worthless? There are plenty of negative and positive reports for most experiences.

The picture the data taken from erowid paints seems pretty accurate too. I see nor reason to doubt it :shrug:

Anyways there is clearly a " bias that's almost certainly significant and very possibly huge" from the DEA and FDA or kratom wouldn't be schedule 1 ever...


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLove_spirit
Circle Of Power
 User Gallery


Registered: 07/18/15
Posts: 1,208
Last seen: 7 months, 27 days
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: musiclover420]
    #23650870 - 09/16/16 04:10 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Graphs are generally used to deceive. Just looking at it your average retard would draw the conclusion that for every one person enjoying a drug 10 have had a bad experience. A more realistic depiction of people's overall experience with krat would look more like 100 smiley faces to one unhappy face.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineparp
Stranger
Registered: 09/16/16
Posts: 7
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: musiclover420]
    #23650876 - 09/16/16 04:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

i use it for fibro and the chronic fatigue and headaches that come with it. when used like that it doesn't provide any high, just a feeling of normality and minimisation of pain, a bit more energy and a cheerier mood. in fact when i used to frequent legal high forums pretty much across the board folk were disapointed with kratom as something to get high from. i personally feel pretty strongly that it was mismarketed as that back then, but then again if it hadn't i'd never have heard of it and found it good medicinally - bloody expensive though!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemusiclover420
psychonaut
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: Love_spirit]
    #23650900 - 09/16/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Love_spirit said:
Graphs are generally used to deceive. Just looking at it your average retard would draw the conclusion that for every one person enjoying a drug 10 have had a bad experience. A more realistic depiction of people's overall experience with krat would look more like 100 smiley faces to one unhappy face.




Graphs doing that are generally skew data in favor of their argument or use false data entirely. This graph represents unbiased numbers from erowid...

Clearly a graph isn't a magic accurate tell all endgame argument but the picture it paints seems pretty accurate to some extent and highlights the absurdity of this.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSanFrog
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/16
Posts: 33
Last seen: 6 years, 28 days
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: musiclover420]
    #23650913 - 09/16/16 04:26 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

A negative experience often impacts you more than a positive one. Like most reviews, people are more likely to write about something negative than if it was positive.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemusiclover420
psychonaut
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: SanFrog]
    #23650920 - 09/16/16 04:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SanFrog said:
A negative experience often impacts you more than a positive one. Like most reviews, people are more likely to write about something negative than if it was positive.




How much erowid browsing have you done? There are tons of negative and positive reports for all sorts of drugs.

Also people will be just as likely to report a very positive experience too, in fact people probably can re account them better then really traumatic ones and may be more likely to share them. I see plenty of reports about "mex" experiences though, or about how they seem like they have good or bad potential and should or shouldn't be investigated further...


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: musiclover420]
    #23651010 - 09/16/16 05:18 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

part of me doesn't care about the ban because kratom is gross and expensive:shrug:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGPryder
Stranger


Registered: 02/12/16
Posts: 616
Last seen: 11 months, 14 days
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: musiclover420]
    #23651059 - 09/16/16 05:35 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Also people will be just as likely to report a very positive experience too, in fact people probably can re account them better then really traumatic ones and may be more likely to share them.



Unless you have some info to back that up, I have my doubts. I feel like it would be pretty similar to people writing reviews on businesses. You can satisfy a hundred customers and maybe 1 or 2 will go through the hassle to write a good review for the business online. On the other hand, if you piss off or upset just 5 customers, you can pretty much guarantee you're going to have at least 3-4 bad reviews pop up in the next week on your business. The shop I managed had people on a weekly basis claiming they loved the service and were going to write positive yelp and google reviews. In five years of managing there, I've only seen two actually pop up, but almost every single time I had a disgruntled customer going off on my employees or myself, I'd find a new bad review the next day.This gave us a horrible rating despite the fact that we only had bad/unhappy customers a few times a year and smashed the competition in quality and price to the point of putting them out of business.


--------------------

Check out my first grow log. Completed successfully!
Experienced: Weed, LSD, Mushrooms, DOC, DXM, MDMA, DMT, 1P-LSD, AL-LAD, ALD-52, 4-HO-MET, 4-HO-MiPT 4-ACO-DMT
Interested in: Ketamine, MDA. 


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemusiclover420
psychonaut
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: GPryder]
    #23651096 - 09/16/16 05:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah but we are talking about memories not business... If someone experiences something super positive and amazing they will want to share it.

But if someone experiences something extremely shocking and traumatic it can be much harder to express to others, there are plenty of examples of that.

Anyways all you have to do is look around to see that kratom users are generally benefiting from it medicinally with little negatives. Where as alcohol the worst one out of the drugs on the graph clearly causes some of the most health issues amongst other problems related to its use... The graph obviously is not 100% acculturate but it does seem to do a decent job for what it is.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCLIT
Stranger
Registered: 01/23/12
Posts: 2,758
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: Konyap]
    #23652113 - 09/17/16 03:56 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I never tried opioidergics before so I couldn't say much about Kratom but it's sad to know that it's getting on the scheduled list. Although I'm reading that since there was over 100K petitions, it might get a second look if it's really harmless?

I think they need to re-examine alcohol and cigarettes instead...

Quote:

Konyap said:
part of me doesn't care about the ban because kratom is gross and expensive:shrug:




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBoogieman2
Lost but Back
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/11/16
Posts: 12
Loc: Weilii Country
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: CLIT] * 1
    #23652664 - 09/17/16 10:13 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Kratom is a great alternative to opiate pain medication. I've been using Kratom off/on for the couple years for pain relief and general mood elevator. I won't say that Kratom gets you high like Narcotic pain meds but definitely has a noticeable effect. In my experience, which has been daily in the last few months is a energized general good mood with my first dose in the morning. It relieves pain for me but not like that warm blanket of numbness I get from Opiates. At higher doses and being relatively still, I have had feelings of no limbs or that there comfortably asleep. The energy buzz I mentioned above is like a coffee or caffeine type buzz but without that nervous shakey feeling you get from too much caffeine. I think it's a great alternative to alot of medications and believe the big pharmaceutical companies are thinking the same way. This emergency scheduling of Kratom is nothing but lobbyists for these big rich companies pushing there weight around. Same reason alcohol companies don't want Marijuana legal. It's a Safer Alternative...
I'm attaching a link below for a petition to stop the Scheduling of Kratom. Please sign...
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/please-do-not-make-kratom-schedule-i-substance


--------------------
This is my new account on Shroomery cause I'm too Burnout to remember my last email/password I used. So if you want to check out my ratings/posts/etc. Please Check out my account under Boogieman


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,086
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 22 hours, 10 minutes
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: Konyap] * 2
    #23653153 - 09/17/16 01:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Konyap said:
part of me doesn't care about the ban because kratom is gross and expensive:shrug:




THEN DON'T USE IT.  And have a little empathy for people who like it and/or need it.  Don't support the suffering of others simply because you personally don't like it.  The world doesn't revolve around you. 














--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month:  The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAmanita86
OTD Keymaster
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: Learyfan] * 1
    #23653174 - 09/17/16 01:40 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

This sucks because kratom is gold for work.  I only take a threshold dose to relax my minds tension(kind of like stretching to loosen muscles) and it actually makes work and talking to boatloads of random strangers go a lot smoother.

I could see if they wanted to ban it because it is "psychoactive" and they are clearly anti anything in that regard, but schedule 1??  That is blatantly agenda based bullshit.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,693
Loc: Raccoon City
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: Amanita86] * 1
    #23653223 - 09/17/16 02:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I have worked in low-morale jobs, both as boss and underling, and in my experience (way too much experience) 85% of the people wouldn't be able to complete the work, without drugs, whether illicit or prescribed.

There's built-in demand, because its a band-aid for bad food, bad health, bad quality-of-life, and a bad future.

There's supposed to a be a drug problem, but sobriety would be impossible.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAmanita86
OTD Keymaster
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: durian_2008]
    #23653855 - 09/17/16 06:12 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The ole govt should back the fuck off, let people work the way it suits them and just collect the taxes and be happy the "people of their country are not only happy, but productive..

I get the no oxy when operating heavy equipment but... kratom?  Schedule 1???  Blows my mind...  there is more here than meets the eye.

Junkies will tell you, kratom doesnt get you high, it just relaxes you like kava etc.  It really is getting to the point where they no longer "smoke screen" these things.... they know they cant be touched so they just say fuck you...

Cannabis for example... the people voted... did it make a change?  Sort of, but no... a quarter oz is a felony here...  I quarter of an ounce.  Actually it's two felonies, but they usually drop one to get you to accept the other.  Pure bullshit.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinewolf8312
Pennywise
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 2,356
Last seen: 4 days, 12 hours
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: Konyap]
    #23654202 - 09/17/16 09:47 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Konyap said:
part of me doesn't care about the ban because kratom is gross and expensive:shrug:




For me its a bit like that famous quote by pastor niemoller.

First they came for the Americans Kratom and I didnt care because I wasn't an American. Then they came for MY kratom! OH FUCK!

England will probably follow suit shortly and then God knows who else.

To answer the OP though I wouldn't call Kratom a 'high' per say.

Its too subtle you dont really get high, but rather it satiates the need and desire to get high by replacing it with warmth and stimulating euphoria. It's just a nice feeling!

Sometimes though when relaxing after high doses it can get very noddy but thats a rather occasional treat! Amazing for deep moreish sleep though! 

It takes away the boring emptiness of everyday existence that grows upon you heavier each day the longer you go through life as a sober person. In the past this would lead me to drink, now I take Kratom.

Mild in comparison to what I would call a real drug like XTC but then you are never going to suffer the horrific after effects of drugs like X or meth either. Neither will it start to make you lazy, paranoid, or start making you think too much about the universe like cannabis will. 

If you're addicted to something or just using something damaging (alcohol) you wish you were not, Kratom is an effective replacement.

Yeah its gross at first but having moved on from 'toss and wash' after having once suffered throat infections (tonsillitis suspect it was the Kratom) and found insects in my Kratom, I now make sure to boil it carefully before drinking it! This followed up with some water turned out to be the easiest and most pain free method of taking Kratom I have found and now I wouldn't do anything but.

Kratom is what I was looking for my whole life, something with which to replace alcohol that doesn't retard your judgment, destroy your mind/body and leave you feeling like death. 

You have my sympathy America!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemusiclover420
psychonaut
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: What it’s like to be high on kratom [Re: wolf8312]
    #23654248 - 09/17/16 10:02 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I agree the article title is a bit much but it definitely can cause a "high". That term is just subjective and have been corrupted by propaganda.

Sugar, coffee, hell even food and probably electronics effect the brain in ways that by definition would be considered a high but its so mild and or accepted no one really cares. Meanwhile any time a new popular "high" gets attention people look down at it while drinking their beer/ wine and or smoking their cigarettes. Its really sad.

We shouldn't have to deny it can cause a high though clearly to the general public that looks bad. Then again look at cannabis, I get high as a kite regularly :toke:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules   Kraken Kratom Buy Kratom Powder & Leaf   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Cultivation Supplies


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Sacred Sexuality and the Psychedelic Experience motamanM 16,496 3 02/22/09 12:02 AM
by veggie
* The Epistemology and Technologies of Shamanic States of Cons motamanM 1,825 0 09/09/04 12:09 PM
by motaman
* Technoshamanism: Digital Deities in Cyberspace motamanM 1,791 4 05/23/04 12:39 AM
by zeta
* DMT, Moses, and the Quest for Transcendence motamanM 2,739 3 02/27/04 03:21 AM
by pattern
* Discover Magazine article on psychedelics HB 7,179 5 03/23/03 07:05 AM
by DazedSol
* LSD doctor dies motamanM 5,122 4 02/22/04 12:03 PM
by motaman
* A tickle away from divinity motamanM 610 1 09/12/04 02:13 PM
by Twirling
* Agony & Ecstasy motamanM 2,038 1 08/29/03 10:52 PM
by Fungushungry

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: motaman, veggie, Alan Rockefeller, Mostly_Harmless
2,757 topic views. 0 members, 5 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.025 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 16 queries.