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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2365231 -

Read what I said. A fetus cannot survive outside of the mother's body.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2365234 -

blacksabbathrulz said:
I think the death penalty should be used in some circumstances, I think personally I would rather be put to death, then to live my life in prison, and I read that it is more expensive to kill someone than to keep them in jail for life, this is completely untrue, its the appeals process which costs more, not killing them.


So are you saying you would get rid of the appeals process? Wouldn't this lead to more innocent people getting executed?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: silversoul7]
    #2365252 -

Right, but its still one lifeform dependant on another


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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: silversoul7]
    #2365257 -

Nope I dont want to get rid of it, I was just pointing out the fact that it is what cost more, I think the decision to either be put to death or live life in prison should be the choice of the person who is being charged.


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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2365265 -

blacksabbathrulz said:
Right, but its still one lifeform dependant on another


Nope. The prisoner could most likely survive just fine on his own. He is only dependent so far as the state forces him to be dependent.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: silversoul7]
    #2365282 -

I was referring to mentally handicapped people, infants, and paralyzed people being dependant on others to survive.


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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2365289 -

Parasite: An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

This goes beyond mere dependence, and refers specifically to the body of the host organism.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: silversoul7]
    #2365304 -

if the child is not hurting the mother in any way why should it be aborted, parasites are usually thought of as hurting the host, whereas a child would be more of a symbiote.


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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2365307 -

getting back to mushmaster's point, are the people who are against abortion against abortion at any point in the pregnancy?

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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: domite]
    #2365312 -

RIght, partial birth abortion is legal, and the child could no longer be considered a parasite if thats what you want to think of it as, yet its constantly supported.


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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2365320 -

blacksabbathrulz said:
if the child is not hurting the mother in any way why should it be aborted, parasites are usually thought of as hurting the host, whereas a child would be more of a symbiote.


Nope. In order for it to be a symbiotic relationship, the fetus would have to actually benefit the mother. Instead it only takes nutrients from the mother without giving anything back.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2365327 -

blacksabbathrulz said:
RIght, partial birth abortion is legal, and the child could no longer be considered a parasite if thats what you want to think of it as, yet its constantly supported.


No, it's not constantly supported. There are even many liberals, including myself, who are opposed to partial birth abortion except in cases where the mother's life is in danger.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: silversoul7]
    #2365342 -

In symbiosis, ONE(or 2) of the members benifits from the relationship, in this case its commensalism, the child benifits, and the mother is not injured.


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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2365356 -

Actually, the fetus takes some nutrients from the mother, thus requiring her to "eat for two." There are other organisms that do this as well, such as the tapeworm, a well-known parasite.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2365373 -

my thoughts:

abortion: only in the first trimester except in the case of grave danger to the health of the mother.

fetal development occurs much faster than many people are aware. i am not impressed by any of the arguments in support of allowing abortions after the first trimester. if you want an abortion, have it in the first 3 months. by the end of the first trimester, the fetus' brain is fully formed, it's got it's own blood type distinct from it's mother, and it can feel pain.

death penalty: i personally feel that it should be considered for premeditated murder and those with multiple convictions for serious violent crimes. should be left up to the states.

contrary to claims to the contrary, the death penalty is a deterrent. sparing the death penalty submits the public to a greater risk, and for what? to protect a person that has decided to take another's life? it should be an option for the residents of each state to decide if they wish to use.

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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: ]
    #2365378 -

Quote:
contrary to claims to the contrary, the death penalty is a deterrent.


Sources? I find this hard to believe, considering how much higher the murder rate is here in America than it is in other developed countries which have banned the death penalty. How do those countries deter murder?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: silversoul7]
    #2365386 -

if murdering someone on a sunday was made punishable by death, but doing it on any other day of the week was banned, don't you think there'd be statistically less murders commited on sundays than before?

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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: ]
    #2365388 -

Yes. Please answer my question.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: silversoul7]
    #2365431 -

silversoul7 said:
Read what I said. A fetus cannot survive outside of the mother's body.


Sorry Silversoul. I have to diasagree. That doesn't make it any less human. As far as choices go, birth control is widely availiable and easy to obtain.

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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: Le_Canard]
    #2365459 -

It makes it pre-human. And the availability of birth control does not mean that we should throw out the last resort of abortion.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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General Interest > Political Discussion
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