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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty * 1
    #2365021 - 02/21/04 08:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I started to address this issue in the posting about Nader, but I'd like to make it a bit more in depth.

How is it that a person can be against the execution of a convicted murderer in a humane fashion as prescribed by the Constitution, yet be for the extremely violent and horrific method of executing an entirely innocent fetus?

What do you use to assess the level of blame on either of the parties (the convicted murder or the entirely innocent fetus)? Why does a convicted criminal get treated better than an innocent fetus? How can that possibly be right?

I'd like to say that I'm actually not entirely for death penalty or against abortion, I just want to see what people say about this. I'm sure that in libby-la-la-land (where overthrowing a tyrannical despot is a bad thing) their is some logic for loving murderers and hating fetii, but I just can't seem to grasp it.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: TheOneYouKnow] * 1
    #2365036 - 02/21/04 08:28 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Abortion isn't a punishment. It's an emergency procedure.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: silversoul7] * 1
    #2365047 - 02/21/04 08:33 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Abortion isn't a punishment. It's an emergency procedure.




Ah, yes, we just covered this in medical school. It treats Slutticus-legs-spreadicus. Right? *rolls eyes* It's not the victims fault that some whacko murdered them, it's the conscious decision of the murderer. It's not the fetus' fault that their mom is a slut, it's the conscious desicion of the slut. If it was rape or incest, or if their is an emergency condition, then abortion should be allowed.

Also, thanks for, as you usually do for me, giving me more ammunition. You won't allow death as a punishment, but you'll allow it as a birth control measure? How twisted your values are . . .


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Anonymous

Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: TheOneYouKnow] * 1
    #2365060 - 02/21/04 08:37 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

are you opposed to abortion at any point in the pregnancy?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: TheOneYouKnow] * 1
    #2365061 - 02/21/04 08:37 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I'm against giving the government the authority to kill. In the case of an abortion, it's the mother's decision, not the government's. It's a matter of who's making the decision.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: silversoul7] * 1
    #2365076 - 02/21/04 08:40 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I'm against giving the government the authority to kill. In the case of an abortion, it's the mother's decision, not the government's. It's a matter of who's making the decision.





People confuse the ABILITY (not the right) to choose something with the moral rightness of it. I have the "choice" of wether or not I want to take my rifles to the top of a tower and start picking people off, but it still doesn't make it legal to do so. IF you are against giving the government the authority to kill (I suppose you'd have to be against all wars then too, great idea!), why do you think that that same entity that you don't trust enough to kill people should have the right to dole that power out to others? The US government, the strongest and best government in the world, can't execute someone, but a 13 year old girl can?

You keep coming off as more and more logical, and you've sure proven that "libbies think with emotions" thing wrong! Kudos *insert sarcasm here*


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: TheOneYouKnow] * 1
    #2365085 - 02/21/04 08:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Keep the ad hominem attacks coming. Maybe it'll actually accomplish something someday.

Anyway, people should not have the power to kill other people. However, a mother should have the power to kill her own fetus, which cannot survive outside her own body, and therefore is not a person, but a parasite.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: TheOneYouKnow] * 1
    #2365090 - 02/21/04 08:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

who are you to judge women who have abortions
as sluts?

your overwhelming ignorance and bias taint any
reasonable argument you may have buried in
that cloudy recess of yours.

judge not lest ye be judged.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: silversoul7] * 1
    #2365094 - 02/21/04 08:45 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

:-)

so the people shouldn't have the right to decide to execute someone who will be living in prison, sucking money from us? sounds like a parasite to me! :-)


Notice how I keep turning your arguments arond on you, it's because you are wrong and I'm right :-)


--------------------
Opinions are like assholes; everyone needs one or else they'd explode


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: TheOneYouKnow] * 1
    #2365103 - 02/21/04 08:46 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You won't be a virgin forever.


























Just kidding, you really will be.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: TheOneYouKnow] * 1
    #2365111 - 02/21/04 08:48 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

apparently you aren't aware that it costs
more to execute than to keep a person
in jail for life.

so which is it?

the moral concern with execution or the
financial realities surrounding it that bother
you the most?


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: afoaf] * 1
    #2365130 - 02/21/04 08:53 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
apparently you aren't aware that it costs
more to execute than to keep a person
in jail for life.




Two trials, 15 feet of rope (one time expense) and the lumber for a gallows are certaintly not more expensive than having a person live in jail for their entire life. Odd how it's so expensive for a capital punishment case, but the poor mino's aren't getting adaqute legal representation, you'd think it would be much cheaper?
Quote:


so which is it?




Revamp the system so that executions happen within 1 year of the FIRST trial, that they are public so they can serve as a deterrant, and lower the cost of prison's by releasing all non-violent drug 'offenders'.
Quote:


the moral concern with execution or the
financial realities surrounding it that bother
you the most?



If justice costs money, so be it. I'm sure that it would be better to hang the guilty rather than having them escape and commit more crimes, or risk having a Dukakis come into power and set them all free so they can be the rehabilitated citizens that jail made them into (read, so they can reoffend)


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: TheOneYouKnow] * 1
    #2365138 - 02/21/04 08:55 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not exactly a 'libbie' as you may have noticed, but I'm against both. Taking a human life is just wrong. The death penalty should be abolished-period. As for abortions, I think they should only be permitted is in the case of rape, incest, the fetus being horribly malformed, or the mother's life is in imminent danger.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: TheOneYouKnow] * 1
    #2365155 - 02/21/04 08:57 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

what about all the people railroaded and wrongly
convicted by the system.

with a one year limit, they'd probably be executed
before justice caught up with them.

what then?


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: afoaf] * 1
    #2365163 - 02/21/04 08:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
what about all the people railroaded and wrongly
convicted by the system.

with a one year limit, they'd probably be executed
before justice caught up with them.

what then?




*shrug* I'd guess that a pro-abortion person would say "Gosh, I couldn't care less if a person who hadn't commited a crime recieves a gruesome death, so fuck 'em". Right?

Most murders now involve some thread of forensic evidence which allows the person to be "totally" guilty. I'm certaintly not in favor of executing innocent people (hence my aversion to the abortion-as-birth-control theory), but the guilty should pay.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: TheOneYouKnow] * 1
    #2365193 - 02/21/04 09:14 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TheOneYouKnow said:
so the people shouldn't have the right to decide to execute someone who will be living in prison, sucking money from us? sounds like a parasite to me! :-)



Nope. He can survive just fine outside of the prison cell.

Quote:

Notice how I keep turning your arguments arond on you, it's because you are wrong and I'm right :-)



You wish.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineTrip
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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: TheOneYouKnow] * 1
    #2365206 - 02/21/04 09:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

here's how i look at it, let's face it a lot of parents today can barely take care of themselves much less a child. if someone doent want to accept the responsibulity of raising a child they shouldnt have to. why should they put their plans of the future on hold? im one to beleive that no one has the right to take the life of another(hence my arguement against the death penalty), but we're talking about here isnt a life, its a glob of devoloping tissue.


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: TheOneYouKnow] * 1
    #2365214 - 02/21/04 09:21 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Revamp the system so that executions happen within 1 year of the FIRST trial, that they are public so they can serve as a deterrant...

Public executions, just like the Taliban right?  I guess it's ok as long as the US has a good education system and no religious extremeists influencing government policy. :smirk:


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The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: silversoul7] * 1
    #2365228 - 02/21/04 09:28 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Keep the ad hominem attacks coming. Maybe it'll actually accomplish something someday.

Anyway, people should not have the power to kill other people. However, a mother should have the power to kill her own fetus, which cannot survive outside her own body, and therefore is not a person, but a parasite.


infants cannot survive without the care of their mothers or the direct aid of others, as well as most mentally retarded people, paralyzed people, I guess its okay to kill them???


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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Re: A question for liberals about abortion/death penalty [Re: TheOneYouKnow] * 1
    #2365230 - 02/21/04 09:29 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I think the death penalty should be used in some circumstances, I think personally I would rather be put to death, then to live my life in prison, and I read that it is more expensive to kill someone than to keep them in jail for life, this is completely untrue, its the appeals process which costs more, not killing them.


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