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PortabellaFella 1
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Lead this horse to water
#23648047 - 09/15/16 04:35 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hey guys, I have quick question.
I have 2 12x12x2.5" trays of gt spawned 1:1 in hpoo/straw from a vendor here in a spec sgfc with about 5 1/2" of perlite. I put into fruiting 4 days ago. Growth seems to have stopped and I seem to have no evaporation on the dew like spiderweb myc. There do seem to be small dots of thicker white myc, I don't think they are knots though. Rh fluctuates between 75 and 90 temp between 75 and 79.
Is there anything I can do to get better evap on the sub surface? I read somewhere amongst the sea of info here where RR said to make sure my perlite wasn't packed and did so. Unfortunately my perlite is a mix of small medium and large so clogging is an issue. Cron also stated in a post that casing helps trays. He said "casings are great for trays, they give you the perfect humidity on the surface of you sub in a sgfc " Should I sterilize some verm(fine grade is all I have) and case/mist in the sgfc? Or should I grow some wax paper on them in the sgfc?
I had a bunch of colonized qt jars, 2 GT went into the trays in the sgfc,5 TC's went into a mono using damion5050 bucket tek( a little on the dry side still colonizing, spawned on 9/7 ), 1 went into a super mini mono/dub tub and 1 very slow colonizing GT with super rhizo myc that turned kind of rubbery thick went into some manure outside in the shade. I figured since most colonized or were done colonizing at differ by times I do different shit...... Something should work lol. I'll post some pics when I get back from my daughters wing chun jeet kune do class.
Thanks in advance. I have searched like mad to find proper info, deciphering what fits my situation had been difficult at times and I appreciate any and all that take time to give advice.
*Ok Updated
my hpoo/coir trays have produced fruits. not what i was expecting since my super mini dub is doing so well, but I'll take it. surface is still FUBAR. its dry, and bruised like hell, not wet and no amount of misting is gonna fix it. We will have to wait for 2nd flush after a dunk. they are growing sooooooo slow.but they look healthy, no fuzz feet. i just dont think they like the sgfc environment.
  
* the super mini is the same mix hpoo/coir/ GT spawn
  
* and this is what i found from the spawn i tossed outside with some straight hpoo

Edited by PortabellaFella 1 (09/26/16 10:46 AM)
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Inocuole
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What is the question exactly?
Quote:
Is there anything I can do to get better evap on the sub surface?
I presume this?
Mist and let it evaporate? You won't be able to do much in a properly dialed SGFC for a substrate that wasn't cased. So just mist more.
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mushpunx
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4 days isn't very long at all. Assuming your sub is clean just give it more time. From what you are describing sounds like knotting.
If you are using a SGFC you have to mist when needed. Dont drown it, but if your tray looks dry give ita mist. I think you are maybe thinking of a monotub where misting isn't needed.
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PortabellaFella 1
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: mushpunx]
#23648141 - 09/15/16 05:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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The sub is still glistening with moisture from this mornings mist at 7am. I'm using and ultra fine mister so the droplets are minuscule but cover 99% of the sub.
There were 3 questions actually. How to increase evap at the sub surface If I could use some sterized verm in an extremely light layer or if wax paper in the same way as the verm would be as a light casing.
Thanks for your help and patience.
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mushpunx
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Quote:
PortabellaFella 1 said: The sub is still glistening with moisture from this mornings mist at 7am. I'm using and ultra fine mister so the droplets are minuscule but cover 99% of the sub.
There were 3 questions actually. How to increase evap at the sub surface If I could use some sterized verm in an extremely light layer or if wax paper in the same way as the verm would be as a light casing.
Thanks for your help and patience.
The only way to increase evaporation would be to increase FAE, which you cant really do in a SGFC short of leaving the lid open. Its built to spec? 1/4" holes in 2" x 2" grid on all Six sides, 5" damp perlite, raised off the surface at the corners?
I wouldnt case at this point. Thats called late casing, but your tray has been in fruiting a while I wouldnt do it. I wouldnt bother with wax paper either.
Just give it a few more days see how the pin set does
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PortabellaFella 1
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: mushpunx]
#23648292 - 09/15/16 06:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ok, yeah I'm not gonna leave the lid off. Not with 3 dogs and my terrible cleaning habits, although i have been super anal about keeping my grow area clean and as sterile as possible. Yes, the tub is to spec 1/4" 2x2, all 6, and 5" maybe 1/4 to half inch more and raised off the surface with a wire cooling tray and lids on top to support the trays.
I did tape the bottom row of holes because the perlite comes over the top of the holes and the convection comes from the bottom. should i remove the tape? I know knots and pins take a while, I wasn't expecting them in 4 days.
Got it, no late case,FAE is my problem area causing slow evap. I think I may have it too close to a wall although I know I'm at least 6-12" away. I'm posting pics. Any input and/or criticism is appreciated.
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mushpunx
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Yea get that tape off.
You cant sterilize your growing area, you can relax a bit on that. Clean is good but if your tray contaminate a it'll be because the spawn was already contaminated not from the environment.
I think your tray is fine. Just mist when it needs it and let it do its thing
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PortabellaFella 1
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SWEET! thanks mushpunx! thanks inocuole!
crap, i almost forgot. i have one other tray fruiting that i did a super mini mono/ dub tub monstrosity lol. how does it look?
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Mushierage
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: mushpunx]
#23648354 - 09/15/16 06:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushpunx said: Yea get that tape off.
You cant sterilize your growing area, you can relax a bit on that. Clean is good but if your tray contaminate a it'll be because the spawn was already contaminated not from the environment.
I think your tray is fine. Just mist when it needs it and let it do its thing
This many times over. As long as your subtrate surface moisture (you know, the little beads after a fine mist) evaporates clean before needing another misting about every 12 hours or so, that is about perfect. If it takes a little longer or a little shorter, that's okay too. Just adjusting your mist/fan schedule accordingly or do what was previously suggested, leave the lid off or cracked a few hours a day and let it be. The pins will come. don't worry so much about contamination. If it's gonna contaminate, it's because it was already contaminated. Fresh air is only going to ward off contamination, not excelerate it.
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Mushierage
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Quote:
PortabellaFella 1 said: SWEET! thanks mushpunx! thanks inocuole!
crap, i almost forgot. i have one other tray fruiting that i did a super mini mono/ dub tub monstrosity lol. how does it look?

For the best FAE, design your mono with four holes on the sides near the substrate, and two on top on the ends. Otherwise it looks just fine.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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Inocuole
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Mushierage]
#23648373 - 09/15/16 06:35 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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For one that small, 2 and 2 is fine. I only use 4 long-side holes for particularly large tubs. I have ONE mini tub with a 6 hole config and I never use it because it's a pain in the ass to dial in. May as well put a cat toy in there and let my cat play with it through the holes.
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PortabellaFella 1
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Mushierage]
#23648386 - 09/15/16 06:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks mushierage, I can't tell you how many billion posts I've read that say mist/fan 2,3-5, every hour a day. I think I've looked into all that a bit much. Being my first grow before I try edibles, I wasn't exactly sure how to read the myc( still not exactly sure because I think I've been lucky up to this point). Now thanks to you guys I have a better understanding of what to look for and how to do it.
I actually want to have a few failures at some point (not this grow lol) so my knowledge would increase.
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Inocuole
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As long as that doesn't entail purposefully making easily avoidable mistakes just to say you learned, can't stress enough how annoying that type of thinking can get around here. Fuck up if you can't help it, sure, but always do things as well as you possibly can.
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PortabellaFella 1
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Thanks inocuole, that was my deductive reasoning for the 4 holes in total because of the small size. The full size mono next to it has 2 low on each long side and 1 high on each short. But that's still in the taped phase. Probably till next week or so.
My jack Russel would have a shit fit if I put a toy in that mini, he would probably eat it to get the toy out lol
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Mushierage
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Inocuole]
#23648419 - 09/15/16 06:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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And by avoiding failure, we mean if you post something and the majority of us say to do it and you ignore it, that's not learning. That's pride. And ignorance. And just... Dumb. It doesn't go over well here, so just listen to your TCs and vets, avoid the avoidable mistakes, and READ a LOT. You will become an awesome member to the community here if you do all that.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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PortabellaFella 1
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I'm pretty good at repeating procedure to a T. I'm a tactical learner, anything I can do with my hands, I don't easily forget. That's why I skipped brf cakes. I'd learn more this way.
I found this out with my 1st mustang. I knew nothing, I read, tore the motor down to the bearings and put it back together. A year later I was driving around in a 600 hp street beast lol
No, you guys that are here helping are the ones who know what your doing.... I am a meat popsicle. I have no pride, my wife made sure of that lol. All jokes aside, I'm the new fish, you guys say jump, I ask how high.
Again I can't thank you all enough, your advice has already been taken and implemented. Tape is off the bottom row and I think I'll actually be able to sleep tonight
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Inocuole
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Quote:
PortabellaFella 1 said: I'm pretty good at repeating procedure to a T. I'm a tactical learner, anything I can do with my hands, I don't easily forget. That's why I skipped brf cakes. I'd learn more this way.
I found this out with my 1st mustang. I knew nothing, I read, tore the motor down to the bearings and put it back together. A year later I was driving around in a 600 hp street beast lol
No, you guys that are here helping are the ones who know what your doing.... I am a meat popsicle. I have no pride, my wife made sure of that lol. All jokes aside, I'm the new fish, you guys say jump, I ask how high.
Again I can't thank you all enough, your advice has already been taken and implemented. Tape is off the bottom row and I think I'll actually be able to sleep tonight 
I like this guy. Practical logical people ftw.
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Mushierage
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Good, glad you are getting the hang of it. It gets a lot easier with time and experience just like anything. Before you know it, you'll be bitching about newbies refusing to listen to your sound advice with the looks of it. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders, so with that, Welcome Brother! Have fun
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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PortabellaFella 1
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Mushierage]
#23648497 - 09/15/16 07:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks guys, I really am liking this hobby quite a bit.
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PortabellaFella 1
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A little update on the trays in the sgfc. They seem to have a film that has a glossy sheen to it. When I touched the top layer it was weird, kind of like if the myc had a layer of Saran Wrap on it.
Also there are a few bluish dots which seem to be under this "film". Most are where the myc is denser. I'm hoping its aborted hyp knots. They have also shrunk considerably, almost 3/8ths of an inch on all 4 sides. I just misted heavily but I'll get a pic or 2 up in a few.
Any ideas? Thanks in advance.
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Mushierage
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Pics? It could be bacteria, or matted mycelium due to over misting. Need to see em
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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PortabellaFella 1
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Mushierage]
#23652676 - 09/17/16 10:19 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks mushierage for such a quick response. im still getting the hang of the picture process here, so bear with me.
 if i remember correctly this first pic should show bluish spots in the center
this on should be the same
this picture i took a cotton swap and gently rubbed the blue dot.the myc "film" broke away and the blue was underneath. there was no bluing or colored spores on the cotton swab.
this pic is on an angle to show the sheen of the "film". sorry so blurry, i cant figure out if this camera has a macro feature.the myc does look matted down and has a saran wrap feel when lightly pressed.
at first i thought trich but it wasn't green enough. then thought penicillin because they do kinda have a white ring on the outer edge.then i did the cotton swab and got no residue. then I said wtf am i doing lol i better ask somebody.
if its simply matted from overmist, is that causing the bluing? can it be saved?
thanks again mushie, inject me with your hot throbbing knowledge (im so stupid lol)
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Inocuole
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Ehhh there's a little something going on there. Keep an eye on that, watch for weird colors. Not sure what it is, bacteria or light mold, but there's something afoot.
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PortabellaFella 1
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thanks inocuole, thats what i feared...definitely not normal. did i do good with the cotton swab test?
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Inocuole
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The cotton swab test is unreliable at best. I've never used it because bruising can rub off and some mold won't stain a Q tip.
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PortabellaFella 1
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Inocuole]
#23652712 - 09/17/16 10:33 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ahh ok, I figured since trich is green when in spore phase it would show on the qtip. Good to know thank you. So just to recap, the 3rd pic that I rubbed which shows very blue could In fact be a contam such as bacteria. Got it
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Inocuole
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Trich will show on a Q tip. But there would be no mistaking if it was trich. That forest green is hard to replicate. When it looks like green fluffy sand there's no need to swab it.
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Mushierage
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Quote:
PortabellaFella 1 said: Ahh ok, I figured since trich is green when in spore phase it would show on the qtip. Good to know thank you. So just to recap, the 3rd pic that I rubbed which shows very blue could In fact be a contam such as bacteria. Got it
I honestly find trich pretty easy to spot, even before its sporulating. Anytime I've had it, it always looks distinctly different than the Myc surrounding it, especially in a jar. Even if it's already on colonized substrate.
I do have trouble identifying other contaminants, but trich is one of those molds I've had a lot of experience with in the past.
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PortabellaFella 1
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Inocuole]
#23652795 - 09/17/16 11:07 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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ok cool thanks for clearing that up. As for the trays shrinking significantly, thats just the myc consuming the sub correct?
my mini mono hasn't shrunk a bit and its showing aerial myc and no matting film. at the same time, i havent been messing with it either....no misting no fanning.
lets just assume the blue spots are bruising for shits and giggles.....will the matted myc fruit? if not, what can be done to fix the matting...let it dry out a bit?
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Mushierage
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Shrinking is yes, due to Myc consuming stuff. But it shouldn't shrink a whole lot until after the first flush, unless that puppy is really getting dry, in which case your bruising would definitely factor dryness into the equation. I don't think that's the case here though.
There is nothing you can do about the matter mycelium really. We call that overlay, but it honestly doesn't look too bad. Overlay will hinder pin development due to the hard surface of mycelium blocking the malleable portions of mycelium that tend to retain moisture better to support microclimate pin formation. The matted shit doesn't usually pin well, but again, one you get it, there isn't much you can do.
Sometimes though if I get overlay and I feel it will never pin, I'll just peel the surface a little so the underneath can get exposure to fresh air. But this is ONLY ever on cakes and when I feel like I have literally no choice and have nothing to lose by doing so.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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Inocuole
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Mushierage]
#23652815 - 09/17/16 11:17 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mushierage said: There is nothing you can do about the matter mycelium really. We call that overlay, but it honestly doesn't look too bad. Overlay will hinder pin development due to the hard surface of mycelium blocking the malleable portions of mycelium that tend to retain moisture better to support microclimate pin formation. The matted shit doesn't usually pin well, but again, one you get it, there isn't much you can do.
... Dude.
Overlay? Really?
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21931053#21931053 https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23021406#23021406
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Mushierage
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Inocuole]
#23652825 - 09/17/16 11:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just really talking about matted mycelium from overmisting, and what I would do in regard to having that problem. Not that the OP has the problem, but I did the first few times I grew using cakes, that had not only bacterial problems, but wetness and overmisting problems.
The here just looks swollen and bacterial and slightly matty, and really not all that bad like I said in my last post.
And just to clarify, I call matted mycelium that doesn't pin, covering mycelium that will pin, overlay. As far as the "common" perception of it here, I'm probably off base on that perception as the TCs and vets call it something and I call it something different than that.
Not trying to misinform you OP, just giving you my experience on the subject.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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PortabellaFella 1
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Mushierage]
#23652866 - 09/17/16 11:35 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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ok i get it! thanks.
i got 1 or 2 more questions and ill get out of your hair.
if i wanted to experiment, could i use a sterilized scalpel and scratch a grid on the surface to open the film and hopefully increase the chance of pinning? or could i remove the tray and fruit as a block? this is going on the assumption that the other 5 sides don't have the film.
i honestly think these 2 trays are not going to show much if at all, i know its premature but i have a few problems obviously. possible contam,or drying causing bruising and over misting.
no worries about the "overlay" issue, i read that it was extremely rare and usually with cased sub. i just have shitty myc "over" possibly ok myc. Any thing i could do to get these effers to show up, ill try.
thanks again guys
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Mushierage
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I wouldn't scratch the surface. From what I understand it doesn't really help a lot, and opens your sub up to further bacterial problems.
And as far as fruiting as a block, it can be done. I've stood up trays on their side so FAE can get to all sides. This is kinda hard to do with a large tray though. If the sub is wet, it'll pretty easily crumble apart, so just leaving it in the tray may be for the best.
Plus leaving on the tray helps with the substrate staying hydrated.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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Inocuole
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Quote:
PortabellaFella 1 said: ok i get it! thanks.
i got 1 or 2 more questions and ill get out of your hair.
if i wanted to experiment, could i use a sterilized scalpel and scratch a grid on the surface to open the film and hopefully increase the chance of pinning? or could i remove the tray and fruit as a block? this is going on the assumption that the other 5 sides don't have the film.
i honestly think these 2 trays are not going to show much if at all, i know its premature but i have a few problems obviously. possible contam,or drying causing bruising and over misting.
no worries about the "overlay" issue, i read that it was extremely rare and usually with cased sub. i just have shitty myc "over" possibly ok myc. Any thing i could do to get these effers to show up, ill try.
thanks again guys
Oh god no, never scratch the surface with anything. You are jumping the gun here. Just mist the substrate and take any advice about unsalvagable mycelium with an extreme grain of salt. Giving up or sabotaging yourself is definitely not how to trigger pinning.
If you're adamant about being concerned about the pinning surface, then flip the block upside down and put it back in the tray so the flat bottom side is facing up.
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PortabellaFella 1
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Inocuole]
#23652917 - 09/17/16 11:52 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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ok no scratching, ill leave them be in the tray and monitor the discoloration. just look for weird colors. sorry this falls under the conversation we had about doing stupid shit to fail. yeah i was getting a bit discouraged.
i appreciate your advice guys, and let them keep going as you said thank you so much!
edit: ill give them a few days and flip them if i dont see any progress or the film gets thicker. if i see color explosions, ill post it or it means they fruited lol
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Edited by PortabellaFella 1 (09/17/16 11:54 AM)
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PortabellaFella 1
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Hey guys, just checking in. I found a post that sounded similar to mine. The OP was using a mono though. Inocuole posted here: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22161882 I can't see the pics because the OP deleted.
Similar drying flattened matted thirsty myc?
I picked the sub up out of the tray and peeled the liner back enough to flip and inspect the side and bottom and then gently put it back. The bottom and side were moist up until about 1/4" from the top. The tray I picked up has slightly more bruising/blue hue than the one I didn't handle. Other than the flip and peek I haven't done anything but fan and mist as instructed.
When you get a chance, let me know what you think. Thanks again for your patience
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Inocuole
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I'm not sure that thread really changes what's going on here at all... You should still be misting it no matter what, even if you flip it, because otherwise that'll happen to all the surfaces. It's not irreversible but it's pretty bad for the end results.
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PortabellaFella 1
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Inocuole]
#23656722 - 09/18/16 07:19 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just posted that link looking for similar situations and I had seen that you posted saying it was dry thirsty myc. I was hoping you may have remembered what the OPs pics looked like for comparison.
I didn't flip and leave it flipped , I returned it to its original state.
I put that I've misted and fanned to show I've done and continue to do what you guys said.
I was just curious as what the middle and bottom of the subs moisture content was in comparison to the top.... No moisture issues
I think I'm confused because mushie said I was bruising from over misting yet it looks dry and matted.
Thanks again for your help
-------------------- I would like to acquire anything I don’t have
Edited by PortabellaFella 1 (09/18/16 07:28 PM)
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PortabellaFella 1
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updated OP with pics
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