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OfflineMushierage
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23652619 - 09/17/16 09:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Pics?  It could be bacteria, or matted mycelium due to over misting.  Need to see em


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OfflinePortabellaFella 1
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Mushierage]
    #23652676 - 09/17/16 10:19 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks mushierage for such a quick response. im still getting the hang of the picture process here, so bear with me.


if i remember correctly this first pic should show bluish spots in the center

this on should be the same

this picture i took a cotton swap and gently rubbed the blue dot.the myc "film" broke away and the blue was underneath. there was no bluing or colored spores on the cotton swab.

this pic is on an angle to show the sheen of the "film". sorry so blurry, i cant figure out if this camera has a macro feature.the myc does look matted down and has a saran wrap feel when lightly pressed.

at first i thought trich but it wasn't green enough. then thought penicillin because they do kinda have a white ring on the outer edge.then i did the cotton swab and got no residue.
then I said wtf am i doing lol i better ask somebody.

if its simply matted from overmist, is that causing the bluing? can it be saved?

thanks again mushie, inject me with your hot throbbing knowledge (im so stupid lol)


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23652679 - 09/17/16 10:20 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Ehhh there's a little something going on there.  Keep an eye on that, watch for weird colors.  Not sure what it is, bacteria or light mold, but there's something afoot.


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OfflinePortabellaFella 1
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23652696 - 09/17/16 10:26 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

thanks inocuole, thats what i feared...definitely not normal. did i do good with the cotton swab test?


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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23652700 - 09/17/16 10:28 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The cotton swab test is unreliable at best.  I've never used it because bruising can rub off and some mold won't stain a Q tip.


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OfflinePortabellaFella 1
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Inocuole]
    #23652712 - 09/17/16 10:33 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Ahh ok, I figured since trich is green when in spore phase it would show on the qtip. Good to know thank you.
So just to recap, the 3rd pic that I rubbed which shows very blue could In fact be a contam such as bacteria. Got it


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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23652760 - 09/17/16 10:52 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Trich will show on a Q tip.  But there would be no mistaking if it was trich.  That forest green is hard to replicate.  When it looks like green fluffy sand there's no need to swab it.


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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23652791 - 09/17/16 11:06 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PortabellaFella 1 said:
Ahh ok, I figured since trich is green when in spore phase it would show on the qtip. Good to know thank you.
So just to recap, the 3rd pic that I rubbed which shows very blue could In fact be a contam such as bacteria. Got it





I honestly find trich pretty easy to spot, even before its sporulating.  Anytime I've had it, it always looks distinctly different than the Myc surrounding it, especially in a jar.  Even if it's already on colonized substrate. 

I do have trouble identifying other contaminants, but trich is one of those molds I've had a lot of experience with in the past.


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Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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OfflinePortabellaFella 1
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Inocuole]
    #23652795 - 09/17/16 11:07 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

ok cool thanks for clearing that up. As for the trays shrinking significantly, thats just the myc consuming the sub correct?

my mini mono hasn't shrunk a bit and its showing aerial myc and no matting film. at the same time, i havent been messing with it either....no misting no fanning.

lets just assume the blue spots are bruising for shits and giggles.....will the matted myc fruit? if not, what can be done to fix the matting...let it dry out a bit?


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OfflineMushierage
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23652813 - 09/17/16 11:15 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Shrinking is yes, due to Myc consuming stuff.  But it shouldn't shrink a whole lot until after the first flush, unless that puppy is really getting dry, in which case your bruising would definitely factor dryness into the equation.  I don't think that's the case here though.

There is nothing you can do about the matter mycelium really.  We call that overlay, but it honestly doesn't look too bad.  Overlay will hinder pin development due to the hard surface of mycelium blocking the malleable portions of mycelium that tend to retain moisture better to support microclimate pin formation.    The matted shit doesn't usually pin well, but again, one you get it, there isn't much you can do. 

Sometimes though if I get overlay and I feel it will never pin, I'll just peel the surface a little so the underneath can get exposure to fresh air.  But this is ONLY ever on cakes and when I feel like I have literally no choice and have nothing to lose by doing so.


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Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Mushierage]
    #23652815 - 09/17/16 11:17 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mushierage said:
There is nothing you can do about the matter mycelium really.  We call that overlay, but it honestly doesn't look too bad.  Overlay will hinder pin development due to the hard surface of mycelium blocking the malleable portions of mycelium that tend to retain moisture better to support microclimate pin formation.    The matted shit doesn't usually pin well, but again, one you get it, there isn't much you can do.




... Dude.

Overlay?  Really?

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21931053#21931053
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23021406#23021406



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OfflineMushierage
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Inocuole]
    #23652825 - 09/17/16 11:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Just really talking about matted mycelium from overmisting, and what I would do in regard to having that problem.  Not that the OP has the problem, but I did the first few times I grew using cakes, that had not only bacterial problems, but wetness and overmisting problems. 

The here just looks swollen and bacterial and slightly matty, and really not all that bad like I said in my last post.


And just to clarify, I call matted mycelium that doesn't pin, covering mycelium that will pin, overlay.  As far as the "common" perception of it here, I'm probably off base on that perception as the TCs and vets call it something and I call it something different than that. 

Not trying to misinform you OP, just giving you my experience on the subject. 


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OfflinePortabellaFella 1
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Mushierage]
    #23652866 - 09/17/16 11:35 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

ok i get it! thanks.

i got 1 or 2 more questions and ill get out of your hair.

if i wanted to experiment, could i use a sterilized scalpel and scratch a grid on the surface to open the film and hopefully increase the chance of pinning?
or
could i remove the tray and fruit as a block? this is going on the assumption that the other 5 sides don't have the film.

i honestly think these 2 trays are not going to show much if at all, i know its premature but i have a few problems obviously. possible contam,or drying causing bruising and over misting.

no worries about the "overlay" issue, i read that it was extremely rare and usually with cased sub. i just have shitty myc "over" possibly ok myc.  Any thing i could do to get these effers to show up, ill try.


thanks again guys


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OfflineMushierage
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23652880 - 09/17/16 11:39 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I wouldn't scratch the surface.  From what I understand it doesn't really help a lot, and opens your sub up to further bacterial problems.

And as far as fruiting as a block, it can be done.  I've stood up trays on their side so FAE can get to all sides.  This is kinda hard to do with a large tray though.  If the sub is wet, it'll pretty easily crumble apart, so just leaving it in the tray may be for the best.

Plus leaving on the tray helps with the substrate staying hydrated.


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Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23652885 - 09/17/16 11:41 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PortabellaFella 1 said:
ok i get it! thanks.

i got 1 or 2 more questions and ill get out of your hair.

if i wanted to experiment, could i use a sterilized scalpel and scratch a grid on the surface to open the film and hopefully increase the chance of pinning?
or
could i remove the tray and fruit as a block? this is going on the assumption that the other 5 sides don't have the film.

i honestly think these 2 trays are not going to show much if at all, i know its premature but i have a few problems obviously. possible contam,or drying causing bruising and over misting.

no worries about the "overlay" issue, i read that it was extremely rare and usually with cased sub. i just have shitty myc "over" possibly ok myc.  Any thing i could do to get these effers to show up, ill try.


thanks again guys




Oh god no, never scratch the surface with anything.  You are jumping the gun here.  Just mist the substrate and take any advice about unsalvagable mycelium with an extreme grain of salt.  Giving up or sabotaging yourself is definitely not how to trigger pinning.

If you're adamant about being concerned about the pinning surface, then flip the block upside down and put it back in the tray so the flat bottom side is facing up.


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OfflinePortabellaFella 1
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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Inocuole]
    #23652917 - 09/17/16 11:52 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

ok no scratching, ill leave them be in the tray and monitor the discoloration. just look for weird colors. sorry this falls under the conversation we had about doing stupid shit to fail. yeah i was getting a bit discouraged.

i appreciate your advice guys, and let them keep going as you said thank you so much!

edit: ill give them a few days and flip them if i dont see any progress or the film gets thicker. if i see color explosions, ill post it or it means they fruited lol


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Edited by PortabellaFella 1 (09/17/16 11:54 AM)


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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23656578 - 09/18/16 06:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hey guys, just checking in. I found a post that sounded similar to mine. The OP was using a mono though. Inocuole posted here: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22161882
I can't see the pics because the OP deleted.

Similar drying flattened matted thirsty myc?

I picked the sub up out of the tray and peeled the liner back enough to flip and inspect the side and bottom and then gently put it back. The bottom and side were moist up until about 1/4" from the top.
The tray I picked up has slightly more bruising/blue hue than the one I didn't handle. Other than the flip and peek I haven't done anything but fan and mist as instructed.

When you get a chance, let me know what you think. Thanks again for your patience


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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23656678 - 09/18/16 07:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not sure that thread really changes what's going on here at all... You should still be misting it no matter what, even if you flip it, because otherwise that'll happen to all the surfaces.  It's not irreversible but it's pretty bad for the end results.


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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: Inocuole]
    #23656722 - 09/18/16 07:19 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I just posted that link looking for similar situations and I had seen that you posted saying it was dry thirsty myc. I was hoping you may have remembered what the OPs pics looked like for comparison.

I didn't flip and leave it flipped , I returned it to its original state.

I put that I've misted and fanned to show I've done and continue to do what you guys said.

I was just curious as what the middle and bottom of the subs moisture content was in comparison to the top.... No moisture issues

I think I'm confused because mushie said I was bruising from over misting yet it looks dry and matted.

Thanks again for your help


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Edited by PortabellaFella 1 (09/18/16 07:28 PM)


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Re: Lead this horse to water [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23679405 - 09/26/16 10:37 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

updated OP with pics


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