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Offlinemusiclover420
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Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) * 3
    #23646330 - 09/15/16 12:56 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

article

Quote:

A new fossil discovery makes it even tougher for Darwinists to explain the origin of life.

There’s an old story about a chemist, a physicist, and an economist stranded on a desert island with nothing to eat but a can of soup. Puzzling over how to open the can, the chemist says, “Let’s heat the can until it swells and bursts from the buildup of gases.” “No, no,” says the physicist, “let’s throw it off that cliff with just enough kinetic energy to split it open on the rocks below.” The economist, after thinking a moment says, “Assume a can opener.”

There’s more than one trade that deals in assumptions. The way Darwinists approach the origin of life is a lot like that economist’s idea for opening the can. The Darwinian mechanism of mutation and natural selection explains everything about life, we’re told—except how it began. “Assume a self-replicating cell containing information in the form of genetic code,” Darwinists are forced to say. Well, fine. But where did that little miracle come from?

A new discovery makes explaining even that first cell tougher still. Fossils unearthed by Australian scientists in Greenland may be the oldest traces of life ever discovered. A team from the University of Wollongong recently published their findings in the journal “Nature,” describing a series of structures called “stromatolites” that emerged from receding ice.

“Stromatolites” may sound like something your doctor would diagnose, but they’re actually biological rocks formed by colonies of microbes that live in shallow water. If you visit the Bahamas today, you can see living stromatolites.

What’s so special about them? Well, they appear in rocks most scientists date to 220 million years older than the oldest fossils, which pushes the supposed date for the origin of life back to 3.7 billion years ago.

This, admits the New York Times, “complicate[s] the story of evolution of early life from chemicals ... .” No kidding! According to conventional geology, these microbe colonies existed on the heels of a period when Earth was undergoing heavy asteroid bombardment, making it virtually uninhabitable. This early date, adds The Times, “leaves comparatively little time for evolution to have occurred … .”

That is an understatement. These life forms came into existence virtually overnight, writes David Klinghoffer at Evolution News and Views. “[g]enetic code, proteins, photosynthesis, the works.”

This appearance of fully-developed life forms so early in the fossil record led Dr. Abigail Allwood of Caltech to remark that “life [must not be] a fussy, reluctant and unlikely thing.” Rather, “t will emerge whenever there’s an opportunity.”

Pardon me? If life occurs so spontaneously and predictably even under the harshest conditions, then it should be popping up all over the place! Yet scientists still cannot come close to producing even a single cell from raw chemicals in the lab.

Dr. Stephen Meyer explains in his book “Signature in the Cell” why this may be Darwinism’s Achilles heel. In order to begin evolution by natural selection, you need a self-replicating unit. But the cell and its DNA blueprint are too complicated by far to have arisen through chance chemical reactions. The odds of even a single protein forming by accident are astronomical. So Meyer and other Intelligent Design theorists conclude that Someone must have designed and created the structures necessary for life.

Meanwhile Darwinists, faced with a fossil record that theoretically pushes the origin of life back further into the past, are forced to assume the metaphorical can opener. They just don’t know how these early cells came into existence, and the more we dig up, the more improbable—rather than likely—life becomes.

For them at least.




Thoughts?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: musiclover420] * 9
    #23646337 - 09/15/16 01:03 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

so because some retarded 'christian scientists' dont understand that just because
the process of evolution, that doesnt make the position of evolution more difficult
to defend, it just makes the retards interpreting the 'if man evolved from monkeys
then why are there still monkeys' christians a bunch of retards

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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23646341 - 09/15/16 01:07 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Did you read the whole article? The author is retarded for sure but there is some interesting science in it even if its misconstrued :lol:

This was especially interesting to me:

Quote:

series of structures called “stromatolites” that emerged from receding ice.

“Stromatolites” may sound like something your doctor would diagnose, but they’re actually biological rocks formed by colonies of microbes that live in shallow water. If you visit the Bahamas today, you can see living stromatolites.

What’s so special about them? Well, they appear in rocks most scientists date to 220 million years older than the oldest fossils, which pushes the supposed date for the origin of life back to 3.7 billion years ago.




Quote:

According to conventional geology, these microbe colonies existed on the heels of a period when Earth was undergoing heavy asteroid bombardment, making it virtually uninhabitable.

Dr. Stephen Meyer explains in his book “Signature in the Cell” why this may be Darwinism’s Achilles heel. In order to begin evolution by natural selection, you need a self-replicating unit. But the cell and its DNA blueprint are too complicated by far to have arisen through chance chemical reactions. The odds of even a single protein forming by accident are astronomical. So Meyer and other Intelligent Design theorists conclude that Someone must have designed and created the structures necessary for life.




Clearly we can't know for sure what earth was like 3.7 billion years ago :tongue2: But it still raises some interesting questions I would say.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free


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Offlinebr33zy
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: Prisoner#1] * 5
    #23646353 - 09/15/16 01:14 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Why are members of modern society so hostile towards Christians? Subjectively, this doesn't seem to be the case for other faiths.

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
so because some retarded 'christian scientists' dont understand that just because
the process of evolution, that doesnt make the position of evolution more difficult
to defend, it just makes the retards interpreting the 'if man evolved from monkeys
then why are there still monkeys' christians a bunch of retards




--------------------
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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: br33zy]
    #23646366 - 09/15/16 01:22 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

the author is retarded...and yes, there is probably things in history that we are missing in the archaeological record that would possibly refine the overall look at the evolutionary record -- this is framed in a particular way though, in the article.

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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23646402 - 09/15/16 02:03 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Evolution occurred over a huge huge amount of time, 3.7 Billion years.

Theres no way all the evidence from back then made it to today. It cannot time trvel that far without being decomposed in the process. way too much time.

The only real fossils we find are made of rock, thanks to calcium in bones turning into rock over time from the crushing force of the Earth.

I forgot what my point was :lol:


--------------------
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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: musiclover420]
    #23646410 - 09/15/16 02:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

If you don't believe in evolution then you're living in the dark ages. It really shows the failing of our education system that anyone could grow up not believing in evolution.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: br33zy] * 3
    #23646411 - 09/15/16 02:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

br33zy said:
Why are members of modern society so hostile towards Christians? Subjectively, this doesn't seem to be the case for other faiths.

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
so because some retarded 'christian scientists' dont understand that just because
the process of evolution, that doesnt make the position of evolution more difficult
to defend, it just makes the retards interpreting the 'if man evolved from monkeys
then why are there still monkeys' christians a bunch of retards







Well, the hostility exists because Christians are constantly trying to impose their religious dogma on subjects that are best debated using evidence based solutions. Teaching evolution. Teaching sex ed. Demanding special rights based on their religions beliefs.

Subjectively, you aren't muslim so you clearly don't feel the objectively worse treatment they get.


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“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 2
    #23646419 - 09/15/16 02:14 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Evolution occurred over a huge huge amount of time, 3.7 Billion years.

Theres no way all the evidence from back then made it to today. It cannot time trvel that far without being decomposed in the process. way too much time.

The only real fossils we find are made of rock, thanks to calcium in bones turning into rock over time from the crushing force of the Earth.

I forgot what my point was :lol:




The origins of life itself is not a topic that evolution or Darwinism attempts to answer. Darwin's theory simply explains how existing lifeforms change over time.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: koods]
    #23646427 - 09/15/16 02:19 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

True, but the entire theory suggests an origin, as things changes over time, but when did it all start? Time goes into the past as well.

But yes, Darwism doesnt speak directly about Origins of Life.

I saw a recent lab experiment where the scientist created amino acids using just some gases and an electric shock in a glass ball beaker. Was pretty awesome. Shows that the basic components of DNA can be easily made from organic things.

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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: nooneman]
    #23646468 - 09/15/16 03:05 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
If you don't believe in evolution then you're living in the dark ages. It really shows the failing of our education system that anyone could grow up not believing in evolution.




I think people believing that the earth is flat is a better sign of that but there are plenty to choose from sadly :nonono:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: musiclover420]
    #23646477 - 09/15/16 03:11 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

What about believing Jesus rode on Dinosaurs? Wheres that in this "sad spectrum"?

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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 2
    #23646478 - 09/15/16 03:12 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

"the fossils were put there to test our faith". :archiebunker::nursemaryjane:


--------------------

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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: musiclover420] * 3
    #23646771 - 09/15/16 07:50 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Quote:

According to conventional geology, these microbe colonies existed on the heels of a period when Earth was undergoing heavy asteroid bombardment, making it virtually uninhabitable.







Maybe those "uninhabitable" conditions were exactly what were needed though, or maybe existing life arrived on one of those asteroids. Either way there is no conflict with the view that evolution did and does occur.





It's kinda bullshit how they keep characterizing people as "Darwinists", making it seem as though Darwin's word is just taken as dogma (putting it on equal footing with their own dogma.) Darwin is no ultimate authority, and a bunch of the stuff he put forward has undergone further refinements.

Darwin rejected Lamarckism, a contemporary view that adaptations during an organism's lifetime would be passed on to its offspring, but recent developments indicate there may actually be some truth to that (through epigenetic changes, something Darwin had no way of knowing about).

Another fairly recent development is the concept of "punctuated equilibrium," the idea that there are long periods where things are relatively stable and little change occurs, separated by relatively brief periods of rapid change. Darwin advocated a simpler model that anticipated fairly steady changes to organisms' physiology, so major changes "should" take a long time. The rapid changes seen in some places in the fossil record are a problem for "Darwinism" but not for evolutionary theory more generally.

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InvisibleMad_Larkin
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: musiclover420]
    #23646781 - 09/15/16 07:57 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Pardon me? If life occurs so spontaneously and predictably even under the harshest conditions, then it should be popping up all over the place! Yet scientists still cannot come close to producing even a single cell from raw chemicals in the lab.





:wtfsonic:

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: br33zy] * 2
    #23646788 - 09/15/16 08:02 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

br33zy said:
Why are members of modern society so hostile towards Christians? Subjectively, this doesn't seem to be the case for other faiths.





for me, it's absolutely the case for other faiths but why does christianity seem to
get attacked more, well, it could be 3 things... 1, there are more people here that
profess to be christian, 2. it's the largest religion out there. 3. this shit....


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: koods]
    #23646796 - 09/15/16 08:04 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

br33zy said:
Why are members of modern society so hostile towards Christians? Subjectively, this doesn't seem to be the case for other faiths.

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
so because some retarded 'christian scientists' dont understand that just because
the process of evolution, that doesnt make the position of evolution more difficult
to defend, it just makes the retards interpreting the 'if man evolved from monkeys
then why are there still monkeys' christians a bunch of retards







Well, the hostility exists because Christians are constantly trying to impose their religious dogma on subjects that are best debated using evidence based solutions. Teaching evolution. Teaching sex ed. Demanding special rights based on their religions beliefs. .





the same holds true for atheism so suck on that until you choke

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OfflineChakra Shock
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: musiclover420] * 2
    #23646889 - 09/15/16 08:57 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Wow this thread turned into a wank n spank for faith vs. science reeeeeal fast.


Anyhow, stromatolites have been in the scientific eye for quite some time. They are, after all, the oldest life forms on Earth of which we are aware.
Basically this article doesn't say anything new, except that life is a little bit older than we had first thought. Right? Or am I missing something?


Also, just because life is incredibly, mind-bogglingly complex on a structural level does not mean that 'someone' had to have created it. Is the average 'someone' creative enough to imagine anything nearly as crazy and complex as genetic sequences? Not really... so then we have to assume that this someone is infinitely more creative and intelligent than human beings. The whole idea of life being 'created' really has too many blind spots and assumptions to be anything based on fact.

I mean, things that work so perfectly like genetic sequences, proteins, cellular organelles, etc. strike me as being so complicatedly specific because 'no one' created it, it just is the way cosmic dust has come together to actually function and live. If someone had created life, it would all be straight up simple, people would be made out of clay, and shit would just work. Life is way too crazy for anything like that.

We're asking ourselves about the probability of life, and whether or not that can be part of the argument for religion, which is something that was invented after life began, making it even less probable of a thing to have ever existed than life itself.

I actually do believe in cosmic consciousness, that life begins where the conditions are perfect and always will do so, as an eternal potential of 'that which is', but evolution is hands down a crucial theory of explaining the development of different species.

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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: Chakra Shock]
    #23646935 - 09/15/16 09:23 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Chakra Shock said:
Wow this thread turned into a wank n spank for faith vs. science reeeeeal fast.


Anyhow, stromatolites have been in the scientific eye for quite some time. They are, after all, the oldest life forms on Earth of which we are aware.
Basically this article doesn't say anything new, except that life is a little bit older than we had first thought. Right? Or am I missing something?


Also, just because life is incredibly, mind-bogglingly complex on a structural level does not mean that 'someone' had to have created it. Is the average 'someone' creative enough to imagine anything nearly as crazy and complex as genetic sequences? Not really... so then we have to assume that this someone is infinitely more creative and intelligent than human beings. The whole idea of life being 'created' really has too many blind spots and assumptions to be anything based on fact.

I mean, things that work so perfectly like genetic sequences, proteins, cellular organelles, etc. strike me as being so complicatedly specific because 'no one' created it, it just is the way cosmic dust has come together to actually function and live. If someone had created life, it would all be straight up simple, people would be made out of clay, and shit would just work. Life is way too crazy for anything like that.

We're asking ourselves about the probability of life, and whether or not that can be part of the argument for religion, which is something that was invented after life began, making it even less probable of a thing to have ever existed than life itself.

I actually do believe in cosmic consciousness, that life begins where the conditions are perfect and always will do so, as an eternal potential of 'that which is', but evolution is hands down a crucial theory of explaining the development of different species.




I like it!


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OfflineTurtletotem
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: musiclover420] * 1
    #23647042 - 09/15/16 10:09 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Life is just a consequence of stars and planets and shit, the universe does it's thang, doesn't matter if you believe it or not.

And here we are.


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