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Offlinemusiclover420
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Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) * 3
    #23646330 - 09/15/16 12:56 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

article

Quote:

A new fossil discovery makes it even tougher for Darwinists to explain the origin of life.

There’s an old story about a chemist, a physicist, and an economist stranded on a desert island with nothing to eat but a can of soup. Puzzling over how to open the can, the chemist says, “Let’s heat the can until it swells and bursts from the buildup of gases.” “No, no,” says the physicist, “let’s throw it off that cliff with just enough kinetic energy to split it open on the rocks below.” The economist, after thinking a moment says, “Assume a can opener.”

There’s more than one trade that deals in assumptions. The way Darwinists approach the origin of life is a lot like that economist’s idea for opening the can. The Darwinian mechanism of mutation and natural selection explains everything about life, we’re told—except how it began. “Assume a self-replicating cell containing information in the form of genetic code,” Darwinists are forced to say. Well, fine. But where did that little miracle come from?

A new discovery makes explaining even that first cell tougher still. Fossils unearthed by Australian scientists in Greenland may be the oldest traces of life ever discovered. A team from the University of Wollongong recently published their findings in the journal “Nature,” describing a series of structures called “stromatolites” that emerged from receding ice.

“Stromatolites” may sound like something your doctor would diagnose, but they’re actually biological rocks formed by colonies of microbes that live in shallow water. If you visit the Bahamas today, you can see living stromatolites.

What’s so special about them? Well, they appear in rocks most scientists date to 220 million years older than the oldest fossils, which pushes the supposed date for the origin of life back to 3.7 billion years ago.

This, admits the New York Times, “complicate[s] the story of evolution of early life from chemicals ... .” No kidding! According to conventional geology, these microbe colonies existed on the heels of a period when Earth was undergoing heavy asteroid bombardment, making it virtually uninhabitable. This early date, adds The Times, “leaves comparatively little time for evolution to have occurred … .”

That is an understatement. These life forms came into existence virtually overnight, writes David Klinghoffer at Evolution News and Views. “[g]enetic code, proteins, photosynthesis, the works.”

This appearance of fully-developed life forms so early in the fossil record led Dr. Abigail Allwood of Caltech to remark that “life [must not be] a fussy, reluctant and unlikely thing.” Rather, “t will emerge whenever there’s an opportunity.”

Pardon me? If life occurs so spontaneously and predictably even under the harshest conditions, then it should be popping up all over the place! Yet scientists still cannot come close to producing even a single cell from raw chemicals in the lab.

Dr. Stephen Meyer explains in his book “Signature in the Cell” why this may be Darwinism’s Achilles heel. In order to begin evolution by natural selection, you need a self-replicating unit. But the cell and its DNA blueprint are too complicated by far to have arisen through chance chemical reactions. The odds of even a single protein forming by accident are astronomical. So Meyer and other Intelligent Design theorists conclude that Someone must have designed and created the structures necessary for life.

Meanwhile Darwinists, faced with a fossil record that theoretically pushes the origin of life back further into the past, are forced to assume the metaphorical can opener. They just don’t know how these early cells came into existence, and the more we dig up, the more improbable—rather than likely—life becomes.

For them at least.




Thoughts?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: musiclover420] * 9
    #23646337 - 09/15/16 01:03 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

so because some retarded 'christian scientists' dont understand that just because
the process of evolution, that doesnt make the position of evolution more difficult
to defend, it just makes the retards interpreting the 'if man evolved from monkeys
then why are there still monkeys' christians a bunch of retards


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23646341 - 09/15/16 01:07 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Did you read the whole article? The author is retarded for sure but there is some interesting science in it even if its misconstrued :lol:

This was especially interesting to me:

Quote:

series of structures called “stromatolites” that emerged from receding ice.

“Stromatolites” may sound like something your doctor would diagnose, but they’re actually biological rocks formed by colonies of microbes that live in shallow water. If you visit the Bahamas today, you can see living stromatolites.

What’s so special about them? Well, they appear in rocks most scientists date to 220 million years older than the oldest fossils, which pushes the supposed date for the origin of life back to 3.7 billion years ago.




Quote:

According to conventional geology, these microbe colonies existed on the heels of a period when Earth was undergoing heavy asteroid bombardment, making it virtually uninhabitable.

Dr. Stephen Meyer explains in his book “Signature in the Cell” why this may be Darwinism’s Achilles heel. In order to begin evolution by natural selection, you need a self-replicating unit. But the cell and its DNA blueprint are too complicated by far to have arisen through chance chemical reactions. The odds of even a single protein forming by accident are astronomical. So Meyer and other Intelligent Design theorists conclude that Someone must have designed and created the structures necessary for life.




Clearly we can't know for sure what earth was like 3.7 billion years ago :tongue2: But it still raises some interesting questions I would say.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Offlinebr33zy
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: Prisoner#1] * 5
    #23646353 - 09/15/16 01:14 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Why are members of modern society so hostile towards Christians? Subjectively, this doesn't seem to be the case for other faiths.

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
so because some retarded 'christian scientists' dont understand that just because
the process of evolution, that doesnt make the position of evolution more difficult
to defend, it just makes the retards interpreting the 'if man evolved from monkeys
then why are there still monkeys' christians a bunch of retards




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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: br33zy]
    #23646366 - 09/15/16 01:22 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

the author is retarded...and yes, there is probably things in history that we are missing in the archaeological record that would possibly refine the overall look at the evolutionary record -- this is framed in a particular way though, in the article.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23646402 - 09/15/16 02:03 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Evolution occurred over a huge huge amount of time, 3.7 Billion years.

Theres no way all the evidence from back then made it to today. It cannot time trvel that far without being decomposed in the process. way too much time.

The only real fossils we find are made of rock, thanks to calcium in bones turning into rock over time from the crushing force of the Earth.

I forgot what my point was :lol:


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: musiclover420]
    #23646410 - 09/15/16 02:10 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

If you don't believe in evolution then you're living in the dark ages. It really shows the failing of our education system that anyone could grow up not believing in evolution.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: br33zy] * 3
    #23646411 - 09/15/16 02:10 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

br33zy said:
Why are members of modern society so hostile towards Christians? Subjectively, this doesn't seem to be the case for other faiths.

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
so because some retarded 'christian scientists' dont understand that just because
the process of evolution, that doesnt make the position of evolution more difficult
to defend, it just makes the retards interpreting the 'if man evolved from monkeys
then why are there still monkeys' christians a bunch of retards







Well, the hostility exists because Christians are constantly trying to impose their religious dogma on subjects that are best debated using evidence based solutions. Teaching evolution. Teaching sex ed. Demanding special rights based on their religions beliefs.

Subjectively, you aren't muslim so you clearly don't feel the objectively worse treatment they get.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 2
    #23646419 - 09/15/16 02:14 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Evolution occurred over a huge huge amount of time, 3.7 Billion years.

Theres no way all the evidence from back then made it to today. It cannot time trvel that far without being decomposed in the process. way too much time.

The only real fossils we find are made of rock, thanks to calcium in bones turning into rock over time from the crushing force of the Earth.

I forgot what my point was :lol:




The origins of life itself is not a topic that evolution or Darwinism attempts to answer. Darwin's theory simply explains how existing lifeforms change over time.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: koods]
    #23646427 - 09/15/16 02:19 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

True, but the entire theory suggests an origin, as things changes over time, but when did it all start? Time goes into the past as well.

But yes, Darwism doesnt speak directly about Origins of Life.

I saw a recent lab experiment where the scientist created amino acids using just some gases and an electric shock in a glass ball beaker. Was pretty awesome. Shows that the basic components of DNA can be easily made from organic things.


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: nooneman]
    #23646468 - 09/15/16 03:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
If you don't believe in evolution then you're living in the dark ages. It really shows the failing of our education system that anyone could grow up not believing in evolution.




I think people believing that the earth is flat is a better sign of that but there are plenty to choose from sadly :nonono:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: musiclover420]
    #23646477 - 09/15/16 03:11 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

What about believing Jesus rode on Dinosaurs? Wheres that in this "sad spectrum"?


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 2
    #23646478 - 09/15/16 03:12 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

"the fossils were put there to test our faith". :archiebunker::nursemaryjane:


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: musiclover420] * 3
    #23646771 - 09/15/16 07:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Quote:

According to conventional geology, these microbe colonies existed on the heels of a period when Earth was undergoing heavy asteroid bombardment, making it virtually uninhabitable.







Maybe those "uninhabitable" conditions were exactly what were needed though, or maybe existing life arrived on one of those asteroids. Either way there is no conflict with the view that evolution did and does occur.





It's kinda bullshit how they keep characterizing people as "Darwinists", making it seem as though Darwin's word is just taken as dogma (putting it on equal footing with their own dogma.) Darwin is no ultimate authority, and a bunch of the stuff he put forward has undergone further refinements.

Darwin rejected Lamarckism, a contemporary view that adaptations during an organism's lifetime would be passed on to its offspring, but recent developments indicate there may actually be some truth to that (through epigenetic changes, something Darwin had no way of knowing about).

Another fairly recent development is the concept of "punctuated equilibrium," the idea that there are long periods where things are relatively stable and little change occurs, separated by relatively brief periods of rapid change. Darwin advocated a simpler model that anticipated fairly steady changes to organisms' physiology, so major changes "should" take a long time. The rapid changes seen in some places in the fossil record are a problem for "Darwinism" but not for evolutionary theory more generally.


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InvisibleMad_Larkin
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: musiclover420]
    #23646781 - 09/15/16 07:57 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Pardon me? If life occurs so spontaneously and predictably even under the harshest conditions, then it should be popping up all over the place! Yet scientists still cannot come close to producing even a single cell from raw chemicals in the lab.





:wtfsonic:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: br33zy] * 2
    #23646788 - 09/15/16 08:02 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

br33zy said:
Why are members of modern society so hostile towards Christians? Subjectively, this doesn't seem to be the case for other faiths.





for me, it's absolutely the case for other faiths but why does christianity seem to
get attacked more, well, it could be 3 things... 1, there are more people here that
profess to be christian, 2. it's the largest religion out there. 3. this shit....



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: koods]
    #23646796 - 09/15/16 08:04 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

br33zy said:
Why are members of modern society so hostile towards Christians? Subjectively, this doesn't seem to be the case for other faiths.

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
so because some retarded 'christian scientists' dont understand that just because
the process of evolution, that doesnt make the position of evolution more difficult
to defend, it just makes the retards interpreting the 'if man evolved from monkeys
then why are there still monkeys' christians a bunch of retards







Well, the hostility exists because Christians are constantly trying to impose their religious dogma on subjects that are best debated using evidence based solutions. Teaching evolution. Teaching sex ed. Demanding special rights based on their religions beliefs. .





the same holds true for atheism so suck on that until you choke


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OfflineChakra Shock
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: musiclover420] * 2
    #23646889 - 09/15/16 08:57 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Wow this thread turned into a wank n spank for faith vs. science reeeeeal fast.


Anyhow, stromatolites have been in the scientific eye for quite some time. They are, after all, the oldest life forms on Earth of which we are aware.
Basically this article doesn't say anything new, except that life is a little bit older than we had first thought. Right? Or am I missing something?


Also, just because life is incredibly, mind-bogglingly complex on a structural level does not mean that 'someone' had to have created it. Is the average 'someone' creative enough to imagine anything nearly as crazy and complex as genetic sequences? Not really... so then we have to assume that this someone is infinitely more creative and intelligent than human beings. The whole idea of life being 'created' really has too many blind spots and assumptions to be anything based on fact.

I mean, things that work so perfectly like genetic sequences, proteins, cellular organelles, etc. strike me as being so complicatedly specific because 'no one' created it, it just is the way cosmic dust has come together to actually function and live. If someone had created life, it would all be straight up simple, people would be made out of clay, and shit would just work. Life is way too crazy for anything like that.

We're asking ourselves about the probability of life, and whether or not that can be part of the argument for religion, which is something that was invented after life began, making it even less probable of a thing to have ever existed than life itself.

I actually do believe in cosmic consciousness, that life begins where the conditions are perfect and always will do so, as an eternal potential of 'that which is', but evolution is hands down a crucial theory of explaining the development of different species.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: Chakra Shock]
    #23646935 - 09/15/16 09:23 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Chakra Shock said:
Wow this thread turned into a wank n spank for faith vs. science reeeeeal fast.


Anyhow, stromatolites have been in the scientific eye for quite some time. They are, after all, the oldest life forms on Earth of which we are aware.
Basically this article doesn't say anything new, except that life is a little bit older than we had first thought. Right? Or am I missing something?


Also, just because life is incredibly, mind-bogglingly complex on a structural level does not mean that 'someone' had to have created it. Is the average 'someone' creative enough to imagine anything nearly as crazy and complex as genetic sequences? Not really... so then we have to assume that this someone is infinitely more creative and intelligent than human beings. The whole idea of life being 'created' really has too many blind spots and assumptions to be anything based on fact.

I mean, things that work so perfectly like genetic sequences, proteins, cellular organelles, etc. strike me as being so complicatedly specific because 'no one' created it, it just is the way cosmic dust has come together to actually function and live. If someone had created life, it would all be straight up simple, people would be made out of clay, and shit would just work. Life is way too crazy for anything like that.

We're asking ourselves about the probability of life, and whether or not that can be part of the argument for religion, which is something that was invented after life began, making it even less probable of a thing to have ever existed than life itself.

I actually do believe in cosmic consciousness, that life begins where the conditions are perfect and always will do so, as an eternal potential of 'that which is', but evolution is hands down a crucial theory of explaining the development of different species.




I like it!


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OfflineTurtletotem
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: musiclover420] * 1
    #23647042 - 09/15/16 10:09 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Life is just a consequence of stars and planets and shit, the universe does it's thang, doesn't matter if you believe it or not.

And here we are.


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Offlinegoldcaphunter
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: Turtletotem] * 1
    #23647148 - 09/15/16 10:58 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Darwinism/evolution still makes the most sense to me.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23647155 - 09/15/16 11:02 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

br33zy said:
Why are members of modern society so hostile towards Christians? Subjectively, this doesn't seem to be the case for other faiths.





for me, it's absolutely the case for other faiths but why does christianity seem to
get attacked more, well, it could be 3 things... 1, there are more people here that
profess to be christian, 2. it's the largest religion out there. 3. this shit....








2.  christianity is not the largest religion "out there"


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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23647266 - 09/15/16 11:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

So did they disprove it or not? I don't see anything that disproves evolution here at all. It just sounds like "hey there were some really harsh conditions that shouldn't harbor life, but there was life anyway".


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OfflineTNK
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: musiclover420]
    #23647279 - 09/15/16 11:48 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Wait, I am confused.

Since life started earlier then believed, and happened during a turbulent time in Earth's history, what does that make evolution harder to defend? If anything it is a testament to life and evolution.


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Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)


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Invisibleohcrapitsnico
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: TNK] * 6
    #23647370 - 09/15/16 12:17 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

People who don't believe in evolution have such enormous skepticism and high standards for evolution but when it comes to their bullshit intelligent design, they'll believe some ancient book carte blanche.


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: ohcrapitsnico] * 2
    #23647384 - 09/15/16 12:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

it makes darwinian evolution harder to defend.
darwinism is only one model of evolution.
This represents "Punctuated Equilibrium."

I actually just wrote a paper about this last night.

here are some easy sources.

Eldridge, Niles 1986 The Theory of Punctuated Equilibria. London: Hinemann.

Gould, Stephen. 1980 The Return of the Hopeful Monster. Electronic Resource: Stephen Jay Gould Archives. http://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/gould_hopeful-monsters.html.

Public Broadcasting Service 2001 Punctuated Equilibrium. Electronic Resource: PBS.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/03/5/l_035_01.html.


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April 24th 2011


Edited by Larrythescaryrex (09/15/16 12:24 PM)


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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: Larrythescaryrex] * 1
    #23647447 - 09/15/16 12:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Dude, evolution is seriously just a basic consequence of genetics. You know how you inherit traits from your parents? Over a long enough time, people with traits that are disadvantages don't do as well as people with traits that are advantages. Eventually the people with advantageous traits outnumber the people with disadvantageous traits so much that the entire population ends up related to the people with the advantageous traits and not related to the people with the disadvantageous traits. That's evolution.

You can see evolution at work in Russia's tame fox experiments. In Russia, they tamed foxes by selecting for foxes which were the friendliest towards humans. Only the friendliest foxes were used to make the next generation of foxes, and as a result each generation got progressively friendlier until we now have tame foxes being raised in Russia. Evolution happens exactly the same except that  the natural environment favors one trait over another.

You can also perform an experiment at home to prove it to yourself. Plant a bunch of pea plants at home. The ones that grow to be the tallest, use only their seeds and their pollen to produce a second generation of pea plant. Then from that generation, use the tallest plants to grow a third generation. You will see that each generation gets progressively taller because each generation inherits genes from its parents and some of those genes control height. This happens because you are keeping alive the plants with tall genes and ridding the population of plants with short genes which causes the population as a whole to become taller because all plants in each generation inherit genes from the tall plants that survive and not from the short plants that don't.

This is not rocket science, and it is a scientific reality that you have to confront. Denying evolution is denying that DNA exists.


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: nooneman]
    #23647464 - 09/15/16 01:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

the model of "Human Behavioral Ecology" is rather agnostic about genetic causation.


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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #23649126 - 09/15/16 11:32 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I think the issue is that many if not most of professing Christians do not actually follow God's word, they do not intently study it and lack a fundamental understanding of it, and are "lukewarm" at best. I am Christian myself, and find that many people proclaiming to be a Christian lack the wisdom, Compassion, love for others, self-sacrifice, faith, etc. that God wants from us. Everything in that image is crap and not grounded in biblical teachings at all. The only references made are taken out of context and misunderstood. God does not punish with molestation or rape. It gets frustrating trying to fight against the image that the masses have of "Christians".

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

br33zy said:
Why are members of modern society so hostile towards Christians? Subjectively, this doesn't seem to be the case for other faiths.





for me, it's absolutely the case for other faiths but why does christianity seem to
get attacked more, well, it could be 3 things... 1, there are more people here that
profess to be christian, 2. it's the largest religion out there. 3. this shit....






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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: br33zy]
    #23649165 - 09/15/16 11:47 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

people take from the scriptures the words that shape their OWN "philosophy". thus it ever was.

unfortunately people opt for scornful, practically evil, ways of thinking about their religion...their religion that is so widely misunderstood, even in it's fundamentals.

a religion stemmed from another religion, whom adherents don't follow one another's rules, even though they're all intrinsically connected...and those adherents whom will belittle 'the heathen' pagans that their religion(s) is based off of.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23649598 - 09/16/16 05:52 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Also, the creation story gets undue weight because it's near the beginning of the book. People who attempt to read the Bible all the way through are likely to at least get that far, even if they give up not too long after that. Thus it looms large for some people as being a core tenet of Christianity, to the point where the "God planted fake evidence to fool people into believing the wrong thing and going to hell" theory makes perfect sense to them.


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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: psi]
    #23649603 - 09/16/16 06:02 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

water can take many forms
salt also builds up shape on it's own
I read an artical that there is some weird quantum mechanics going on when your salt clumps up lol


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: br33zy]
    #23649758 - 09/16/16 07:36 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

br33zy said:
Why are members of modern society so hostile towards Christians? Subjectively, this doesn't seem to be the case for other faiths.

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
so because some retarded 'christian scientists' dont understand that just because
the process of evolution, that doesnt make the position of evolution more difficult
to defend, it just makes the retards interpreting the 'if man evolved from monkeys
then why are there still monkeys' christians a bunch of retards






What kind of hostile religious zealot are you most likely to deal with systematically for your whole life in America?

Christians

When I was a kid someone found out I was an atheist, they're response was to repeat on loop; "You're going to hell!" several times before I  left. In fact, I was often bullied for not being a part of my local church. So why do you think that a lot of Americans criticize Christians more than, say the Hindus?


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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #23650411 - 09/16/16 12:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I am not disagreeing with you, I just find it so sad that people are treated this way by people who profess to be a Christian. I did not grow up in the church and accepted Christ later on in life. I try my best to live my life in a way that God calls me to. He doesn't teach the hate, cruelty, lack of compassion, and selfishness that many have experienced from "Christians". I truly believe I am a better person today due to changes I have made for my faith.

Quote:

NotTheDevil said:
Quote:

br33zy said:
Why are members of modern society so hostile towards Christians? Subjectively, this doesn't seem to be the case for other faiths.

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
so because some retarded 'christian scientists' dont understand that just because
the process of evolution, that doesnt make the position of evolution more difficult
to defend, it just makes the retards interpreting the 'if man evolved from monkeys
then why are there still monkeys' christians a bunch of retards






What kind of hostile religious zealot are you most likely to deal with systematically for your whole life in America?

Christians

When I was a kid someone found out I was an atheist, they're response was to repeat on loop; "You're going to hell!" several times before I  left. In fact, I was often bullied for not being a part of my local church. So why do you think that a lot of Americans criticize Christians more than, say the Hindus?




--------------------
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: br33zy]
    #23650842 - 09/16/16 03:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 1:7




:whateverhuman:


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OfflineThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: br33zy]
    #23650943 - 09/16/16 04:42 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

br33zy said:
Why are members of modern society so hostile towards Christians? Subjectively, this doesn't seem to be the case for other faiths.






Because it's the hip thing to do.

Oh, you're a Muslim?  That's great! Let's celebrate your culture!

Oh, you're a Christian? *insert violent hate speech*


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
    #23650953 - 09/16/16 04:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I really hope that is sarcasm I am just too baked to pick up on :uhoh:

:notsureif:


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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #23650967 - 09/16/16 04:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
Quote:

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 1:7




:whateverhuman:



LOL, perfect grem!


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OfflineMrBlueYoMind
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: musiclover420] * 1
    #23650983 - 09/16/16 05:05 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think it was sarcasm.  I've personally noticed a trend where people will bash Christians and defend Islam.

I think the argument being presented in the article is that according to evolution the time period when these organisms were alive was supposedly not conductive towards supporting life.

I think the stronger argument is the question posed to Dawkins in this clip:




He's asked "Can you give an example of a genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen to increase the information on the genome?"

His response is that we aren't descended from the current day animals, and that way way back when we are descended from a common ancestor.

I believe the idea behind the question is:  How is it possible for DNA to encode itself to contain more information than it already has?  DNA contains all the information for a set-number of chromosomes.  How did the extra chromosomes manifest if only a limited amount of information is contained within them to begin with?  Since we cannot see it occurring today, why would we presume it occurred 300 million years ago?


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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #23650988 - 09/16/16 05:07 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

because aliens inserted the dna in monkeys, boom! humans.:grin:


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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #23651080 - 09/16/16 05:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Plenty of people attack Islam and defend Christianity too though :shrug: clearly they both have ups and downs just like all things.

We haven't even been aware of DNA long enough to get a chance to see its progression much if at all I would think.

That isn't much less grasping at straws then the "earth was inhospitable to life back then". We don't really have any way of knowing for sure at this point.

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
because aliens inserted the dna in monkeys, boom! humans.:grin:




There does seem to be a fair amount of evidence pointing towards something like that if you care to dig around enough.


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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #23651111 - 09/16/16 05:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MrBlueYoMind said:
I don't think it was sarcasm.  I've personally noticed a trend where people will bash Christians and defend Islam.

I think the argument being presented in the article is that according to evolution the time period when these organisms were alive was supposedly not conductive towards supporting life.

I think the stronger argument is the question posed to Dawkins in this clip:




He's asked "Can you give an example of a genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen to increase the information on the genome?"

His response is that we aren't descended from the current day animals, and that way way back when we are descended from a common ancestor.

I believe the idea behind the question is:  How is it possible for DNA to encode itself to contain more information than it already has?  DNA contains all the information for a set-number of chromosomes.  How did the extra chromosomes manifest if only a limited amount of information is contained within them to begin with?  Since we cannot see it occurring today, why would we presume it occurred 300 million years ago?




I don't think you even know what you're talking about.


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: qman] * 2
    #23651145 - 09/16/16 06:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MrBlueYoMind said:
I don't think it was sarcasm.  I've personally noticed a trend where people will bash Christians and defend Islam.

I think the argument being presented in the article is that according to evolution the time period when these organisms were alive was supposedly not conductive towards supporting life.

I think the stronger argument is the question posed to Dawkins in this clip:




He's asked "Can you give an example of a genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen to increase the information on the genome?"

His response is that we aren't descended from the current day animals, and that way way back when we are descended from a common ancestor.

I believe the idea behind the question is:  How is it possible for DNA to encode itself to contain more information than it already has?  DNA contains all the information for a set-number of chromosomesHow did the extra chromosomes manifest if only a limited amount of information is contained within them to begin with?  Since we cannot see it occurring today, why would we presume it occurred 300 million years ago?



He must not have heard of extremophiles. They live in hydrothermal vents at the bottom of the sea, in lakes full of arsenic, in volcanoes, and even solid ice. Life is tough, unless the earth was literally nothing but molten rock it could have survived.


This is an old argument, and I'm pretty sure he's saying that no mutation causes there to be more bits of data in a chromosome. He's also very clearly wrong at that point. DNA is an information storage mechanism and just like any other it can be expanded by the right process. That process is called mutation and can both add and remove data. Usually such things are negative for the organism, but some few of them are useful. For example some people have too few chromosomes and usually have various problems because of it. Others have too many chromosomes and it usually causes down's syndrome. Clearly we can make more chromosomes and store more DNA and information in living things with the right mutation. If we can develop an extra chromosome, why couldn't a bacteria? Why couldn't that chromosome then further mutate in later generations?

Dawkins doesn't represent science or atheism. No one does. They stand on their own.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: musiclover420]
    #23651168 - 09/16/16 06:24 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Plenty of people attack Islam and defend Christianity too though :shrug: clearly they both have ups and downs just like all things.

We haven't even been aware of DNA long enough to get a chance to see its progression much if at all I would think.

That isn't much less grasping at straws then the "earth was inhospitable to life back then". We don't really have any way of knowing for sure at this point.

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
because aliens inserted the dna in monkeys, boom! humans.:grin:




There does seem to be a fair amount of evidence pointing towards something like that if you care to dig around enough.




It isn't too out there compared to any other theory.:shrug: It's possible.


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: br33zy] * 1
    #23651189 - 09/16/16 06:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

br33zy said:
I am not disagreeing with you, I just find it so sad that people are treated this way by people who profess to be a Christian. I did not grow up in the church and accepted Christ later on in life. I try my best to live my life in a way that God calls me to. He doesn't teach the hate, cruelty, lack of compassion, and selfishness that many have experienced from "Christians". I truly believe I am a better person today due to changes I have made for my faith.

Quote:

NotTheDevil said:
Quote:

br33zy said:
Why are members of modern society so hostile towards Christians? Subjectively, this doesn't seem to be the case for other faiths.

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
so because some retarded 'christian scientists' dont understand that just because
the process of evolution, that doesnt make the position of evolution more difficult
to defend, it just makes the retards interpreting the 'if man evolved from monkeys
then why are there still monkeys' christians a bunch of retards






What kind of hostile religious zealot are you most likely to deal with systematically for your whole life in America?

Christians

When I was a kid someone found out I was an atheist, they're response was to repeat on loop; "You're going to hell!" several times before I  left. In fact, I was often bullied for not being a part of my local church. So why do you think that a lot of Americans criticize Christians more than, say the Hindus?






You are a person who uses empathy and tries to follow the real faith and love your religion can give. Not many reach that regardless of faith. There are good people of all philosophies. It all comes down to ethics and not many people even really think about that, they just blindly follow the word of their families and leaders so they don't have to think so hard about these things. That is (one place) where mean people come from, they don't genuinely care about their faith always, just the parts that let them act how they want. Ironic, considering that's a commonly cited reason to be an atheist (from low quality religious youtube videos). People are susceptible to not being empathetic towards one another because it's just easier to live that way. Pretty much no religion makes good or bad people. Bad people use their religion as an excuse to do as they please. Some atheists even try to do this, though it lacks in sense even more so. Good people try to find a way to care, and some do it through religion. Others do it in other ways.


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