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Offlinemusiclover420
psychonaut
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Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #23651080 - 09/16/16 05:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Plenty of people attack Islam and defend Christianity too though :shrug: clearly they both have ups and downs just like all things.

We haven't even been aware of DNA long enough to get a chance to see its progression much if at all I would think.

That isn't much less grasping at straws then the "earth was inhospitable to life back then". We don't really have any way of knowing for sure at this point.

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
because aliens inserted the dna in monkeys, boom! humans.:grin:




There does seem to be a fair amount of evidence pointing towards something like that if you care to dig around enough.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 12 hours, 47 minutes
Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #23651111 - 09/16/16 05:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MrBlueYoMind said:
I don't think it was sarcasm.  I've personally noticed a trend where people will bash Christians and defend Islam.

I think the argument being presented in the article is that according to evolution the time period when these organisms were alive was supposedly not conductive towards supporting life.

I think the stronger argument is the question posed to Dawkins in this clip:




He's asked "Can you give an example of a genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen to increase the information on the genome?"

His response is that we aren't descended from the current day animals, and that way way back when we are descended from a common ancestor.

I believe the idea behind the question is:  How is it possible for DNA to encode itself to contain more information than it already has?  DNA contains all the information for a set-number of chromosomes.  How did the extra chromosomes manifest if only a limited amount of information is contained within them to begin with?  Since we cannot see it occurring today, why would we presume it occurred 300 million years ago?




I don't think you even know what you're talking about.


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OfflineNotTheDevil
Transhuman


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 5,436
Loc: US Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: qman] * 2
    #23651145 - 09/16/16 06:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MrBlueYoMind said:
I don't think it was sarcasm.  I've personally noticed a trend where people will bash Christians and defend Islam.

I think the argument being presented in the article is that according to evolution the time period when these organisms were alive was supposedly not conductive towards supporting life.

I think the stronger argument is the question posed to Dawkins in this clip:




He's asked "Can you give an example of a genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen to increase the information on the genome?"

His response is that we aren't descended from the current day animals, and that way way back when we are descended from a common ancestor.

I believe the idea behind the question is:  How is it possible for DNA to encode itself to contain more information than it already has?  DNA contains all the information for a set-number of chromosomesHow did the extra chromosomes manifest if only a limited amount of information is contained within them to begin with?  Since we cannot see it occurring today, why would we presume it occurred 300 million years ago?



He must not have heard of extremophiles. They live in hydrothermal vents at the bottom of the sea, in lakes full of arsenic, in volcanoes, and even solid ice. Life is tough, unless the earth was literally nothing but molten rock it could have survived.


This is an old argument, and I'm pretty sure he's saying that no mutation causes there to be more bits of data in a chromosome. He's also very clearly wrong at that point. DNA is an information storage mechanism and just like any other it can be expanded by the right process. That process is called mutation and can both add and remove data. Usually such things are negative for the organism, but some few of them are useful. For example some people have too few chromosomes and usually have various problems because of it. Others have too many chromosomes and it usually causes down's syndrome. Clearly we can make more chromosomes and store more DNA and information in living things with the right mutation. If we can develop an extra chromosome, why couldn't a bacteria? Why couldn't that chromosome then further mutate in later generations?

Dawkins doesn't represent science or atheism. No one does. They stand on their own.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
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Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: musiclover420]
    #23651168 - 09/16/16 06:24 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Plenty of people attack Islam and defend Christianity too though :shrug: clearly they both have ups and downs just like all things.

We haven't even been aware of DNA long enough to get a chance to see its progression much if at all I would think.

That isn't much less grasping at straws then the "earth was inhospitable to life back then". We don't really have any way of knowing for sure at this point.

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
because aliens inserted the dna in monkeys, boom! humans.:grin:




There does seem to be a fair amount of evidence pointing towards something like that if you care to dig around enough.




It isn't too out there compared to any other theory.:shrug: It's possible.


--------------------


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OfflineNotTheDevil
Transhuman


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 5,436
Loc: US Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Evolution Just Got Harder to Defend (Article) [Re: br33zy] * 1
    #23651189 - 09/16/16 06:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

br33zy said:
I am not disagreeing with you, I just find it so sad that people are treated this way by people who profess to be a Christian. I did not grow up in the church and accepted Christ later on in life. I try my best to live my life in a way that God calls me to. He doesn't teach the hate, cruelty, lack of compassion, and selfishness that many have experienced from "Christians". I truly believe I am a better person today due to changes I have made for my faith.

Quote:

NotTheDevil said:
Quote:

br33zy said:
Why are members of modern society so hostile towards Christians? Subjectively, this doesn't seem to be the case for other faiths.

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
so because some retarded 'christian scientists' dont understand that just because
the process of evolution, that doesnt make the position of evolution more difficult
to defend, it just makes the retards interpreting the 'if man evolved from monkeys
then why are there still monkeys' christians a bunch of retards






What kind of hostile religious zealot are you most likely to deal with systematically for your whole life in America?

Christians

When I was a kid someone found out I was an atheist, they're response was to repeat on loop; "You're going to hell!" several times before I  left. In fact, I was often bullied for not being a part of my local church. So why do you think that a lot of Americans criticize Christians more than, say the Hindus?






You are a person who uses empathy and tries to follow the real faith and love your religion can give. Not many reach that regardless of faith. There are good people of all philosophies. It all comes down to ethics and not many people even really think about that, they just blindly follow the word of their families and leaders so they don't have to think so hard about these things. That is (one place) where mean people come from, they don't genuinely care about their faith always, just the parts that let them act how they want. Ironic, considering that's a commonly cited reason to be an atheist (from low quality religious youtube videos). People are susceptible to not being empathetic towards one another because it's just easier to live that way. Pretty much no religion makes good or bad people. Bad people use their religion as an excuse to do as they please. Some atheists even try to do this, though it lacks in sense even more so. Good people try to find a way to care, and some do it through religion. Others do it in other ways.


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