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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Shroom_Goddess]
#23646919 - 09/15/16 09:15 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Do a small grow and eat those fruits.
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mrmazdarx9
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Registered: 05/15/16
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Shroom_Goddess]
#23646922 - 09/15/16 09:16 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroom_Goddess said: How do you test potency without eating the fruit? If you eat it you cant clone it. Do you guys take a sample and THEN eat it? That way if it was potent you have the sample ready?
Good question I think its done using Chromatography but I'm not 100% sure
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mushpunx
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Registered: 04/20/14
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Shroom_Goddess]
#23646928 - 09/15/16 09:18 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroom_Goddess said: How do you test potency without eating the fruit? If you eat it you cant clone it. Do you guys take a sample and THEN eat it? That way if it was potent you have the sample ready?
You could do either. If the fruit/cluster was large enough for a proper dose you could eat the fruit after youve put your piece of tissue to agar. If you cloned from a pin or small fruit you dont have that option however.
I do a small grow with each of my clone cultures, if they perform well enough to be a possible keeper I will sample the fruits for potency.
Its hard when I have lots of clones/isolates to test, I have to enlist trusted friends to help me out
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ComebackKid
Multispore Enthusiast



Registered: 05/27/16
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Shroom_Goddess]
#23646947 - 09/15/16 09:30 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have a feeling the best way to test potency would be to eat more than one of the same fruit. I wouldnt be able to gague a fruits potency by eating just one mushroom. I probably wouldn't even trip. And if you ate it along side other fruits from ms you certainly wouldnt be able to gauge it.
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Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care
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Maximillion
Me



Registered: 07/21/15
Posts: 268
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: ComebackKid]
#23647028 - 09/15/16 10:04 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Isn't growing from an isolate like a shot in the dark though? Once you stop seeing sectoring that means you've refined the genetics so much that you're only left with a single strain. What if that strain sucks? Is there a way of monitoring the progress of your gene pool during the transferring? I can't think of a way for that to even be possible, so it's got to be hit or miss Every time.
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Maximillion]
#23647041 - 09/15/16 10:09 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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If the isolated strain sucks you throw it in the trash and test the next one. Typically 1 in 10 isolates might not even fruit, 2 in 10 will suck hard, 6 will be average or so, maybe 1 in 10 will kick ass. So be sure to isolate at least ten and keep the good one.
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mushpunx
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23647131 - 09/15/16 10:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: If the isolated strain sucks you throw it in the trash and test the next one. Typically 1 in 10 isolates might not even fruit, 2 in 10 will suck hard, 6 will be average or so, maybe 1 in 10 will kick ass. So be sure to isolate at least ten and keep the good one.
I try to take transfers from at least 10, usually 15 to 20 different sectors from a culture. Once I have each of those down to isolated strains I keep a master of each labeled and stored in my mini fridge.
I do a small grow with each and keep the winners
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Maximillion
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: mushpunx]
#23647207 - 09/15/16 11:22 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sounds like a plan then. Thanks guys, it seems like a lot of work, but it will be worth it. Once I start cloning I'll put this information to good use.
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Inocuole
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Shroom_Goddess]
#23647690 - 09/15/16 02:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroom_Goddess said: How do you test potency without eating the fruit? If you eat it you cant clone it. Do you guys take a sample and THEN eat it? That way if it was potent you have the sample ready?
Yes.
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TedTheHighlighter
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Inocuole]
#23647954 - 09/15/16 04:01 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've got a good question. Let's say you were trying to isolate to a monoculture. This usually takes many transfers from a MS start because there's so many strains involved. Would it be beneficial to instead, grow out mushrooms from MS, take a clone, grow that out on agar, and isolate from there? It seems like that could eliminate most of the strains right off the bat by taking a nice clone and you already have favorable genetics. Also, thid could make the process faster. What are your guys' knowledge?
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Inocuole
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I would call them isolates rather than monocultures, since a monoculture is when you only have one species of a thing. Like if you only grew carrots, you would have a monoculture of carrots. If you avoid contams, you already have a monoculture. You're looking for isolated genetics.
Yes, isolating from clone is a huge shortcut if you're looking to save time.
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mushpunx
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Sote]TedTheHighlighter said: I've got a good question. Let's say you were trying to isolate to a monoculture. This usually takes many transfers from a MS start because there's so many strains involved. Would it be beneficial to instead, grow out mushrooms from MS, take a clone, grow that out on agar, and isolate from there? It seems like that could eliminate most of the strains right off the bat by taking a nice clone and you already have favorable genetics. Also, thid could make the process faster. What are your guys' knowledge?
Sure you can isolate from a clone if you want yes, you will reach an isolate faster, probably a better chance of fruiting strains.
When isolating a pure culture from spores you dont want just one isolate to test. I usually end up with 10-20 isolates from a single culture. I run a test of all of them and keep the best one
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Raven44
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: mushpunx]
#23648044 - 09/15/16 04:33 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I read somewhere.., it's better to not isolate from a clone.
They said keeping the clone as is allows the clone to perform best.
They also said that if u fruit out the individual sectors of a clone it more often performs worse than the clone as is (all sectors fruited out at once if u will..)
I don't remember which user said that, and I'm unsure if this is fact as I have no personal experience with this myself
Maybe someone here cab verify Wether or not this is true
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ComebackKid
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: mushpunx]
#23648061 - 09/15/16 04:41 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Okay so I know now that there are still multiple genetics in mushroom clone tissue, and you can obtain an isolate quicker with clone tissue on agar.
But what about the clones themselves? Does each clone have the same genetics as the original? Or would each clone have a narrower set of genetics?
What im getting at is cloning clones rather than growing out on agar to obtain an isolate. Is this possible? I know that cloning clones is frowned upon because you can eventually reach senescence this way but just wondering
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Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind. Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind, is peering in from outside the universe. Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself
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Inocuole
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Raven44]
#23648077 - 09/15/16 04:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Raven44 said: I read somewhere.., it's better to not isolate from a clone.
They said keeping the clone as is allows the clone to perform best.
They also said that if u fruit out the individual sectors of a clone it more often performs worse than the clone as is (all sectors fruited out at once if u will..)
I don't remember which user said that, and I'm unsure if this is fact as I have no personal experience with this myself
Maybe someone here cab verify Wether or not this is true
Yeah that's not necessarily true. Isolating past the point of a clone means you can get better or worse traits than the clone itself depending on what you isolate out. A clone could very well have a set of genetics within that's holding it back, same as it could have a set of genetics that's holding it up.
Fact is that you never know what might happen when you further isolate something.
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mushpunx
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: ComebackKid]
#23648082 - 09/15/16 04:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ComebackKid said: Okay so I know now that there are still multiple genetics in mushroom clone tissue, and you can obtain an isolate quicker with clone tissue on agar.
But what about the clones themselves? Does each clone have the same genetics as the original? Or would each clone have a narrower set of genetics?
What im getting at is cloning clones rather than growing out on agar to obtain an isolate. Is this possible? I know that cloning clones is frowned upon because you can eventually reach senescence this way but just wondering
You're right, cloning clones will quickly leads to senescence. To obtain an isolate you would have to transfer from the individual sectors on agar. Cloning from a clone would not work.
Its also worth noting some clones dont sector at all
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mushpunx
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Inocuole]
#23648084 - 09/15/16 04:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said:
Quote:
Raven44 said: I read somewhere.., it's better to not isolate from a clone.
They said keeping the clone as is allows the clone to perform best.
They also said that if u fruit out the individual sectors of a clone it more often performs worse than the clone as is (all sectors fruited out at once if u will..)
I don't remember which user said that, and I'm unsure if this is fact as I have no personal experience with this myself
Maybe someone here cab verify Wether or not this is true
Yeah that's not necessarily true. Isolating past the point of a clone means you can get better or worse traits than the clone itself depending on what you isolate out. A clone could very well have a set of genetics within that's holding it back, same as it could have a set of genetics that's holding it up.
Fact is that you never know what might happen when you further isolate something.
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ComebackKid
Multispore Enthusiast



Registered: 05/27/16
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: mushpunx]
#23648111 - 09/15/16 05:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've noticed that with one of my clones. Was worried at first that it wasnt cube myc but some other white mold myc or something.
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Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care
Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind. Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind, is peering in from outside the universe. Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself
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Shroom_Goddess
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: ComebackKid]
#23649977 - 09/16/16 09:27 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wow thanks guys.
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Raven44
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Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Shroom_Goddess]
#23649986 - 09/16/16 09:29 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Good info ty
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