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InvisibleMaximillion
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I want to get something straight about clones
    #23645444 - 09/14/16 06:29 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I work with agar on the regular, but I don't have any clones.
I've been avoiding cloning my fruits because I wasn't certain of what it actually does.
So, I'm going to explain what I think it does, and you guys could tell me wether or not I'm right.

If I clone a sample from a large fruit, that plate grows out, and then I use it to colonize some jars which will be spawned to a bulk sub, will all of the new fruits be the same size and grow at the same rate as the original fruit that was cloned?

I assume that is how it works otherwise what's the point?


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Maximillion]
    #23645457 - 09/14/16 06:33 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Not necessarily.  A clone has multiple sets of genetics, not unlike the mushroom that you took it from.  There will be more consistency, but by what degree, it's hard to say.

This is a clone.
First flush

Second flush


This is that same clone.



They don't always do the same thing.  But they have a much higher chance of doing so than MS.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Inocuole]
    #23645492 - 09/14/16 06:47 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I know cannabis better than mushrooms, hoping to change this.  Seems canna clones look different and have variations due to environment.  Genetics are the code how to respond to environment, nothing more and nothing less.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Inocuole]
    #23645493 - 09/14/16 06:47 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

One thing to note is that clones provide consistent results. Some clones will be consistently bad. Some will consistently suck invitro. Some will demand casing while others will dislike it. They are not a magic bullet, they will just provide a level of familiarity to the grow. It's up to the cultivator to figure out if it's worth keeping and how to get the most from it.


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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23645496 - 09/14/16 06:48 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
I know cannabis better than mushrooms, hoping to change this.  Seems canna clones look different and have variations due to environment.  Genetics are the code how to respond to environment, nothing more and nothing less.




:thumbup:


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OfflineGreg
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Maximillion] * 1
    #23645573 - 09/14/16 07:12 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

In addition to environment there's also a certain amount of stochasticity in gene expression.
That is to say all organisms are affected to some small degree by completely random chance.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Greg]
    #23645614 - 09/14/16 07:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The fact that you can isolate further past the point of a clone says everything about their consistency.  They are more consistent than from sopres by a landslide, but an isolate is yet even more consistent since it only has one set of genetics.  Unlike cannabis clones, there is more than one set of genetics at play in the average mushroom clone.

In the same vein, a clone could offer more differing reactions to environmental conditions than an isolate might, since it could plausibly have a set of genetics within, where each respond to different conditions separately.

Sometimes a clone is better, sometimes an isolate is better, but one is significantly easier to get a hold of, so most work with clones.


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InvisibleFriedEggS
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Inocuole]
    #23645673 - 09/14/16 07:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

also be sure to test your clones on a small scale. some clones will not be potent so you don't want to waste a bunch of time.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: FriedEgg]
    #23645721 - 09/14/16 08:24 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

FriedEgg said:
also be sure to test your clones on a small scale. some clones will not be potent so you don't want to waste a bunch of time.





You can say that again, dont forget to check potency.

I usually test my clones in a full mono tub though, since thats how I run them


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InvisibleBoogieman47
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: mushpunx]
    #23645899 - 09/14/16 09:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

How come a clone can be shit for potency if what you cloned  was potent as fuck?


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Boogieman47]
    #23645904 - 09/14/16 09:40 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Generally if the clone was potent the resulting culture will be as well.  Every once in a while it's possible that the potency factor was a one-off and the dominant trait in that clone doesn't represent what you selected for.


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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Inocuole]
    #23645925 - 09/14/16 09:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Ok that makes sense


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InvisibleMaximillion
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Boogieman47]
    #23646027 - 09/14/16 10:21 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Much love to all of you! Keeping all that in mind, I'm guessing it's much easier to get an isolate by transferring cloned mycelium than it would be starting from spore. Is there a process for selecting the right branch of genetics when making transfers or would you have to grow out every plate at least once to see what your gene pool is looking like?

Would it be easier to isolate genetics by cloning clones?


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Edited by Maximillion (09/14/16 10:28 PM)


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InvisibleFriedEggS
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: Maximillion]
    #23646293 - 09/15/16 12:31 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

i just isolate the fastest clean mycelium until i have something that looks close to a monoculture. but it doesnt have to be an actual monoculture. then, i grow it out in 1 full size tub and test the potency. if it's good, i do another tub just to make sure. if it's good the second time, i keep it. i put it on a slant for storage and then repeat the process. after isolating 15 or 20 perfect clones, i begin to wonder what i'm doing with my life.

you don't want to clone a clone. you would run into senescence.


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OfflineTedTheHighlighter
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: FriedEgg]
    #23646742 - 09/15/16 07:27 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Clones taken from a MS will have a variety of results. However, those results will be relatively consistent.
Clones taken from a monoculture will give you the same results every time.

I'm not sure about taking clones from a clone grow. I'm also curious about that


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: TedTheHighlighter]
    #23646753 - 09/15/16 07:36 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

generally, u wouldn't clone from a "monoculture" grow because….you already have that culture (the monoculture plate that started your grain master), just like you wouldn't clone from a clone grow, because you already have that culture.  so even if senescence wasn't an issue, doing either of those is just more work.


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OfflineTedTheHighlighter
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: blindingleaf]
    #23646772 - 09/15/16 07:52 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
generally, u wouldn't clone from a "monoculture" grow because….you already have that culture (the monoculture plate that started your grain master), just like you wouldn't clone from a clone grow, because you already have that culture.  so even if senescence wasn't an issue, doing either of those is just more work.



Yeah, you right.
The reason I was curious about cloning a clone is because I wonder if that would narrow down genetics. A clone grow will probably have some varied results so cloning it further from another desirable fruit would theoretically narrow down the variance in the genetics to give you even better results.


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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: TedTheHighlighter]
    #23646782 - 09/15/16 07:57 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

could be.  I think it would be better to either "isolate" the clone further so it no longer sectors, or find a different clone that performs consistently regardless.

only time I would clone a clone is if I lost the OG culture


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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: blindingleaf]
    #23646824 - 09/15/16 08:20 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
could be.  I think it would be better to either "isolate" the clone further so it no longer sectors, or find a different clone that performs consistently regardless.

only time I would clone a clone is if I lost the OG culture





Me too. Ive had to do this before because o f poor labeling :facepalm:


  When I find a clone I like  I keep a master plate in the fridge and then I work on the culture until it stops sectoring. If I like how it performs after a couple grows that will be the culture I slant
I like to "stabilize" the clone as Ive heard it referred to


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OfflineShroom_Goddess
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Re: I want to get something straight about clones [Re: mushpunx]
    #23646866 - 09/15/16 08:48 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

How do you test potency without eating the fruit? If you eat it you cant clone it.
Do you guys take a sample and THEN eat it? That way if it was potent you have the sample ready?


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