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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Everything has a shadow side
    #23645363 - 09/14/16 05:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

What do you think about this notion of duality?

Is there an alternative POV, or is this just the way it is?


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Everything has a shadow side [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #23645423 - 09/14/16 06:21 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I think enlightenment is no longer having dual nature.  Everything is good for you at that point.  You are a stone and nothing can change your being.  Now behavior I do not understand yet of the enlightened.  The nervous system is dual.  Awake and asleep, conscious and unconscious.  Fear and regret verses risk and reward.  All very complex for the animal brain.

I consider myself a little bit enlightened.  I do not believe in a dichotomy.  No good and evil.  But I do have a fear reaction to things bad for me.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Everything has a shadow side [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23645508 - 09/14/16 06:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

this is referred to as Maya in come cultures, although they may see it differently than say I do.

duality.

like, how sadness and happiness, when they aren't wavering between two extreme ends of each other, when put side by side, seem similar to each one another, in the middle -- like a slice if life, things often have conflicting feelings and emotions; or that is to say, conflicting insomuch as they appear to be conflicting due to our denoting the opposites as such we do.

veil of maya, in otherwords.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: Everything has a shadow side [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23645537 - 09/14/16 06:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
What do you think about this notion of duality?

Is there an alternative POV, or is this just the way it is?




Implicit (res cogitans)
Explicit (res extensa)


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offlineyeah
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Re: Everything has a shadow side [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23645885 - 09/14/16 09:33 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

same


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Everything has a shadow side [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 3
    #23646345 - 09/15/16 01:10 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

<zzripz>It's all an evil toxic myth forced on us by the patriarchy and life is a dynamic and nature is not to be feared and anyone who divides it into masculine and feminine is masculine and therefore evil. </zzripz>


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: Everything has a shadow side [Re: viktor]
    #23646359 - 09/15/16 01:18 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Duality is about the types of perceptions of experience, not the sexuality or gender of an individual.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Everything has a shadow side [Re: sudly]
    #23646393 - 09/15/16 01:53 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

when an object is illuminated from one side, the other is dark.

if an object is viewed from one side, the side that is out of the view is not visible.

dark means not-illuminated, and not visible means out of scope to a view point.

I don't think this merits too much mythology, but probably warrants more understanding about points of view, and the shedding of light.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: Everything has a shadow side [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23646398 - 09/15/16 01:58 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)



'Vision' is only possible with light but you can still perceive with your eyes closed through the sense of stereognosis.

Quote:

Stereognosis: The mental perception of depth or three-dimensionality by the senses, usually in reference to the ability to perceive the form of solid objects by touch.





--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Registered: 11/30/11
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Re: Everything has a shadow side [Re: sudly]
    #23646524 - 09/15/16 04:00 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

To state an example:

The internet; it's given most of the global population access to the wealth of knowledge of mankind's history and thinking. Yet, it has also given rise to the superficial connectedness of humans, declining social ability, in many cases taking the place of us bonding physically, which is undoubtedly healthier for us. Plus things like the mass spread of porn amongst children, child porn, etc.

If I think about it, I cannot think of a single aspect of life, other than love itself, that does not have a dark side that comes with the light...


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Everything has a shadow side [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23646582 - 09/15/16 05:01 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
What do you think about this notion of duality?

Is there an alternative POV, or is this just the way it is?




lol having an alternative point of view IS the dynamic which is reality.

It often amazes me how people (some) cannot grasp this, but I also alternatively  can see hos slippery this is for some people, including myself at times, to grasp. This is also so because for millenia our mythologies, religions, philosophy etc have pushed a dualistic worldview.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Everything has a shadow side [Re: viktor]
    #23646586 - 09/15/16 05:04 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
<zzripz>It's all an evil toxic myth forced on us by the patriarchy and life is a dynamic and nature is not to be feared and anyone who divides it into masculine and feminine is masculine and therefore evil. </zzripz>




I sense your quote of me is meant as sarcasm?

So alright then, what is your worldview then?

That we are all gonna dissolve into ball of everliving light for ever and ever and everrrr?


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Everything has a shadow side [Re: zzripz]
    #23646588 - 09/15/16 05:04 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
It often amazes me how people (some) cannot grasp this, but I also alternatively  can see hos slippery this is for some people, including myself at times, to grasp. This is also so because for millenia our mythologies, religions, philosophy etc have pushed a dualistic worldview.




nah, not all of that, not really.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Everything has a shadow side [Re: zzripz]
    #23646618 - 09/15/16 05:25 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

viktor said:
<zzripz>It's all an evil toxic myth forced on us by the patriarchy and life is a dynamic and nature is not to be feared and anyone who divides it into masculine and feminine is masculine and therefore evil. </zzripz>




I sense your quote of me is meant as sarcasm?

So alright then, what is your worldview then?

That we are all gonna dissolve into ball of everliving light for ever and ever and everrrr?




I don't have a worldview, I just live. Right now I'm smoking White Widow.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Everything has a shadow side [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23646757 - 09/15/16 07:42 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
What do you think about this notion of duality?

Is there an alternative POV, or is this just the way it is?




the use of the word 'shadow' comes from the psychologist Jung.
In psychology it refers to the idea that the parts or aspects of ourself we can't accept we repress (get out of touch with) and then project.

here's a quick sound byte version:

Thus some people, might believe they never get/feel angry, but they perceive most others as angry, or find some others anger very annoying.
Or a sexually repressed person perceives most others as lustful, or find some others sexuality very annoying...
and so on.
etc.

So the therapy is to acknowledge the 'shadow' side of oneself, feel more integrated, enjoy life and others more.

The shadow side might appear in dreams, there might be angry goings on in the dreams of the person who thinks they are all light and sweetness.

Jung may have had some crazy ideas but this one seems to have some merit.

Note that the 'shadow' is not what is 'bad', but what we have rejected in ourselves.

as regards the 'duality' of the world, Alan Watts probably was the most eloquent, but you could try Joseph Campbell and many others. Certainly the iching makes much use of the idea.


Edited by laughingdog (09/15/16 08:01 AM)


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Everything has a shadow side [Re: laughingdog]
    #23646783 - 09/15/16 07:57 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

if it’s folks your interested in there are 2 quick ways to test out Jung’s idea, if you have a bunch of friends, whom you have observed for awhile

1) Ask yourself (not them) of your friends, what seems to annoy them most about other people. Then ask yourself if they have a similar issue.

that was the warm up

2) now ask of yourself, what annoys you most, of all the different faults you come across…

So there are many faults , but some upset us and some don’t

Sally may be always late, but it doesn’t bother us, we’re used to it, so we plan around it.
But Bill talks too loud and it does bother us.
and so on

So this means, when we do talk too loud, perhaps rarely, we have a hard time forgiving ourselves.

So by examining ourselves this way, we may first discover things we didn’t know about ourselves,
then maybe figure out why, and most importantly forgive ourselves and become more self accepting.

and if this all seems like nonsense, so much for Jung!


Edited by laughingdog (09/15/16 08:06 AM)


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: Everything has a shadow side [Re: laughingdog]
    #23646818 - 09/15/16 08:18 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Alan Watts makes an interesting talk on polarity and 'dualism' in this one.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineLucisM
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Registered: 03/28/15
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Re: Everything has a shadow side [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23646908 - 09/15/16 09:09 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I think having an understanding of our shadow, of the negative things which we're prone to, helps us understand ourselves better, and navigate life more efficiently.  It doesn't seem beneficial to deny the negativity in our lives, and think of ourselves as perfect individuals, that type of thinking will only cause more harm I think.



Here are a couple quotes I read the other day which mention the shadow.

"The Shadow is a living part of the personality and therefore wants to live with it in some form.  It cannot be argued out of existence or rationalized into harmlessness."

-Carl Jung


"When one tries desperately to be good and wonderful and perfect, then all the more the shadow develops a definite will to be black and evil and destructive.  People cannot see that; they are always striving to be marvelous, and then they discover that terrible destructive things happen which they cannot understand, and they either deny that such facts have anything to do with them, or if they admit them, they take them for natural afflictions, or they try to minimize them and to shift responsibility elsewhere.  The fact is that if one tries beyond one's capacity to be perfect, the shadow descends into hell and becomes the devil.  For it is just as sinful from the standpoint of nature and of truth to be above oneself as to be below oneself.  It is surely not the divine will in man that he should be something which he is not, for when one looks into nature, one sees that is is most definitely the divine will that everything should be what it is."

-Carl Jung


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©️


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