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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Posts: 4,828
Re: anarchy [Re: HalfLight]
    #23652186 - 09/17/16 05:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thank you for pointing out some deeper aspects of the issues. Your profound insights into all of the issues is astounding. One can see why you always win. Your use of the phrase ad hominem is impeccable. The anarchy of your thoughts is truly astounding. Your freedom from what others may think of you is as impressive as all your other superior skills. One can see you will do well in life with your unsurpassed freedom and total command of anarchy, and ability to wield them as and when you see fit, as you move forward to the next exciting and unknown challenges awaiting you down the road, as you leave the past, and charge ahead now, and win the next race. Who knows what lies over the horizon?
Only moving forward immediately will insure the opportunity to dominate again in a new place of your choosing.


Edited by laughingdog (09/17/16 05:15 AM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: anarchy [Re: laughingdog]
    #23656109 - 09/18/16 03:37 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

:strokebeard:

hmmm are you the anti-anarchist? :what2:


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OfflineWithinity
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Re: anarchy [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23656374 - 09/18/16 05:25 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Contrary to what some believe, anarchy would not work, nor would it be desirable.  As soon as you have an anarchic state, you're going to have individuals and groups swoop in to fill the latent power vacuum.  No matter what, in every civilized society, one group has power over others at any given time.  So the goal should not be an impossible anarchy, but setting up the most humane and effective government that we can.

I know we're all fed up with government, but is there really any alternative?  Too much 'law and order' can be oppressive, but there is probably such a thing as not enough, no?




That's a nice post. Anarchy is not the way, imagine a world where it was socially acceptable to kill a persons pet dog or cat, to have sex with your best friends mother or wife etc etc. People are bound to get mad and soon after this whole eye for eye could be developing , after that people would probably start banding together to counter Anarchy then you would have a divided population and it would probly balance itself out to some degree.

Then you have a humane and effective government which is prone to corruption because the Government is held by select few individuals, you cant let the whole people of the country just decide shit for the nation. It won't work because division is weak but strength comes through unity. Look at the big powers in the world , the Governments have used ways to keep their population in check whether it be Vodka or Hollywood.....

Hierarchy exists even in non civil societies As in Monkey so in Man. So what do?

Once again this forum does loop , no answer but the same question;

Can something change or will history keep on repeating. zzZzzZzzz :um:


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: anarchy [Re: Withinity]
    #23656604 - 09/18/16 06:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Or will history end?


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflineWithinity
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Re: anarchy [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23656688 - 09/18/16 07:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hahahahahahaha :lol: Maybe for us.



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OfflineChristopherABrown
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Re: anarchy [Re: Withinity]
    #23657422 - 09/18/16 11:54 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Withinity said:
Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Contrary to what some believe, anarchy would not work, nor would it be desirable.  As soon as you have an anarchic state, you're going to have individuals and groups swoop in to fill the latent power vacuum.  No matter what, in every civilized society, one group has power over others at any given time.  So the goal should not be an impossible anarchy, but setting up the most humane and effective government that we can.

I know we're all fed up with government, but is there really any alternative?  Too much 'law and order' can be oppressive, but there is probably such a thing as not enough, no?




That's a nice post. Anarchy is not the way, imagine a world where it was socially acceptable to kill a persons pet dog or cat, to have sex with your best friends mother or wife etc etc. People are bound to get mad and soon after this whole eye for eye could be developing , after that people would probably start banding together to counter Anarchy then you would have a divided population and it would probly balance itself out to some degree.

Then you have a humane and effective government which is prone to corruption because the Government is held by select few individuals, you cant let the whole people of the country just decide shit for the nation. It won't work because division is weak but strength comes through unity. Look at the big powers in the world , the Governments have used ways to keep their population in check whether it be Vodka or Hollywood.....

Hierarchy exists even in non civil societies As in Monkey so in Man. So what do?

Once again this forum does loop , no answer but the same question;

Can something change or will history keep on repeating. zzZzzZzzz :um:




DQ is correct, and your points are also correct.  However, there are ideals and freedom is one of them we should not give up on.  People can change, particularly with education. 

If we do not get functionally unified here soon all these points will be moot.  The federal government is infiltrated and working towards tyranny one way or another.  The kind of unity that will work is that which goes towards a  lawful and peaceful revolution

When American state citizens realize that free speech has a purpose and work towards seeing it manifest, that great mechanism for change our republic has built in to it can work.

With the purpose of free speech, people will get more and more educated, naturally.  After that happens for a generation or two, we will be different people and no longer manipulated by corporate media to trade what we need for what we want.

People who think like that can appreciate anarchy more than we can.  When everyone knows about as much as there is know about needs as there is, and will not place a want over a need, anarchy can work.

It's a long way off, but protecting unalienable rights with unity is natural, and the law of the land supports it.


--------------------
You always want what you need, but do not always need what you want.

People that do not want what they need, have a problem.

Can we stop doing all of the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: anarchy [Re: ChristopherABrown]
    #23660745 - 09/20/16 05:36 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Anarchy is more of a personal philosophy, than a legitimate form of governance. the only way it works is if everyone's personal ethical endeavors and limitations were cohesive all at once on a personal level.


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InvisibleHalfLight
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Registered: 06/03/13
Posts: 2,322
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Re: anarchy [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23661189 - 09/20/16 10:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I like to think of it as a personal moral philosophy to follow (specifically voluntarism for myself, though syndicalism as well as many forms of civil disobedience and political organization/demonstration stem from anarchist/libertarian theory and larger-scale practice).
Educate, agitate, organize.
Simply taking the time to study the theory in-depth as well as the history that displays governing institutions as a dirty bandage on a societal wound - a bandage that will eventually tear from a wound that needs to breath - displays the reality that nation-states don't simply lack permanence, they lack solution altogether. Informing others about this as it enters discourse (don't be one of those molotov-throwing idiots at riots or that pretentious jackass IRL that's constantly shoving their politics down other people's throats) can lead them to the same path, and the idea spreads, as it has since in the west since its foundations in the Magna Carta.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: anarchy [Re: HalfLight]
    #23661304 - 09/20/16 10:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Agorism is a futile program, all it does is create an enemy for the system to point to, as the principalities at hand will always find and promote fault with those actions considered illegal, because there can be fault found therein. faults that effect everyone, just like everyone economic action does.

it's a band-aid to one's personal status, within an impoverished, or less-than-free state.

the message is nearly impossible to penetrate into consciousness, as these things are generally seen as criminal, and immoral.

perhaps with cryptocurrency, there is less of a backlash...but it's not complete solution to any of the current political station of the US government.


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InvisibleHalfLight
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Re: anarchy [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23661408 - 09/20/16 11:24 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Agorism is a wonderful example of this. This website itself is based on the principle of personal autonomy and the success of the black market, as well as grey market innovation in face of regulation.
Cryptocurrency does provide less backlash, and it certainly isn't a complete solution, but it's also certainly another ultimately anarchist success. Even non gold-standard currency has rapidly overtaken the value, and, in many areas the applicability of state-sanctioned federal reserve for instance.


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InvisibleHalfLight
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Re: anarchy [Re: HalfLight]
    #23661414 - 09/20/16 11:26 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

In addition, the acclaimed futility of Agorism is easily shrugged off by prostitution as a trade.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: anarchy [Re: HalfLight]
    #23661422 - 09/20/16 11:30 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

perhaps it's useful to an extent. what i meant is, it just isn't a viable governmental philosophy, so it's ultimately futile in the sense that it would eventually turn into a more proper form of government. but i still think it's not exactly viable in creating a counter-economy, that's for anyone but those whom aim to empower themselves, ie, not anyone else.

it creates counter-culture examples like The Mafia, for example, which eventually become just like their counter-parts. sadly.

though, you bring up some interesting points. gold-standard currency is a good production method of creating wealth outside the federal reserve, until that is, it's laid claim to outside the Agoric marketplace by the prevailing government that needs be come into power, for their to be any effect at all.

Quote:

In addition, the acclaimed futility of Agorism is easily shrugged off by prostitution as a trade.




that doesn't sound like a good standard to set for trade.

nice to see someone actually discuss the subject, for once, though. :smile: kudos. i'm only informally learned on the subject. it's just my personal insight (hopefully) and opinion.


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InvisibleHalfLight
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Re: anarchy [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23661998 - 09/20/16 02:37 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I personally don't see Agorism as any desirable standard, but rather praxis to maim trade monopolies and a viable method of battling economic aggression.

Prostitution is a good example because it has been an continuous and unstoppable black market service in spite of any and every governing power that attempted to stop it. Unfortunately its illegality and social stigma has led to it being a trade dominated by violence, as sex workers are so commonly viewed as a product rather than a human service provider. Plus conservative influences make people in positions of power who seek out such services take no action towards protecting sex workers (through methods such as decriminalization, specifically) in order to keep these affairs in the dark, parse,  to protect their character in the public's eye for the sake of holding seats of political power. It remains the largest market that humans are kept enslaved in the modern era.

Of course, power equalizers created through technological innovation such as firearms (readily available on the black market for prostitutes who have perhaps been convicted of a felony for being in this line in work and can't own them legally) able to defend themselves from the serial killer and the abusive pimp alike. If firearms were as effective and available as they are now in the peak of America's slave era, well... There wouldn't have been much of a peak. Perhaps they would have been as regulated as they are today though, in attempt to keep the impoverished and oppressed on their knees.

But I'm going off trail here. The point is that, ideally, there wouldn't be a government to maintain this standard.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: anarchy [Re: HalfLight]
    #23662052 - 09/20/16 02:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

ideally, it'd be nice to self-govern solely. people can't seem to manage that though.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: anarchy [Re: HalfLight] * 2
    #23664160 - 09/21/16 05:41 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

the mafia will come into your new business on the block  when your not looking and smash it the fkuc up!!!

Later two smiling men in business suits will arrive at your door and see the damage, and deeply sympathize and with arm around your shoulder tell you they can PROTECT you from further trouble for a price/rent.

You of course do not want any more trouble from 'the bad guys' so you begin paying them, the 'good guys' for your 'protection' whilst all the time they are the very people who did/do it!!!

this is EXACT same model the 'government' uses! BUT on a much vaster scale.


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InvisibleHalfLight
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Re: anarchy [Re: zzripz]
    #23665199 - 09/21/16 02:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
the mafia will come into your new business on the block  when your not looking and smash it the fkuc up!!!

Later two smiling men in business suits will arrive at your door and see the damage, and deeply sympathize and with arm around your shoulder tell you they can PROTECT you from further trouble for a price/rent.

You of course do not want any more trouble from 'the bad guys' so you begin paying them, the 'good guys' for your 'protection' whilst all the time they are the very people who did/do it!!!

this is EXACT same model the 'government' uses! BUT on a much vaster scale.



That is the same model, true.
But in this scenario, I would conjoin with my like-minded neighbors, invite these new mafia citizens over for a dinner party with my neighbors, and as we finish eatinng, let them know that any use of force will be met equally. They can live peacefully among us as "mafia members" or meet early deaths as mafia members.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: anarchy [Re: HalfLight]
    #23665237 - 09/21/16 02:29 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

HalfLight said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
the mafia will come into your new business on the block  when your not looking and smash it the fkuc up!!!

Later two smiling men in business suits will arrive at your door and see the damage, and deeply sympathize and with arm around your shoulder tell you they can PROTECT you from further trouble for a price/rent.

You of course do not want any more trouble from 'the bad guys' so you begin paying them, the 'good guys' for your 'protection' whilst all the time they are the very people who did/do it!!!

this is EXACT same model the 'government' uses! BUT on a much vaster scale.



That is the same model, true.
But in this scenario, I would conjoin with my like-minded neighbors, invite these new mafia citizens over for a dinner party with my neighbors, and as we finish eatinng, let them know that any use of force will be met equally. They can live peacefully among us as "mafia members" or meet early deaths as mafia members.




So you reckon a mafia type mindset invented the myth of 'turn the other cheek'?


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InvisibleHalfLight
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Re: anarchy [Re: zzripz]
    #23665273 - 09/21/16 02:42 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I wouldn't live in a neighborhood where people turn the other cheek to violent aggression.


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dead man walking


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: anarchy [Re: HalfLight]
    #23665280 - 09/21/16 02:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

And if they win who will protect you?


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleHalfLight
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Re: anarchy [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23665291 - 09/21/16 02:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Me, and the associates that I would notify for need of reinforcement since an arising mafia that would grow in power and size if not halted there.

In the event that reinforcements would not be able to arrive in time, me and the community would likely have already evacuated children from the area in anticipation of possible violence. In which case: Sampson Option.


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dead man walking


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